Don't you hate it when...

[eric]

Don't you hate when people refer to your dog(s) as "it"? That really peeves me. Cripes, its not a toaster, its my dog. I've shared my home with this being for the last 4 years and aside from my wife, is the most fulfilling relationship in my life. Accord him the respect he deserves.

"How old is it?"
"What's its name?"
"Its a really nice dog?"

I think the next time somebody calls one of my dogs "it" I'm going start asking about their kids and refering to them as "it". See if it raises their hackles.

"What grade is it in?"
"Is it smart?"
"Is it a mix or pure-bred caucasian?"

The other thing that bugs me is people who keep refering to one of my boys as "she" even after I correct them.

"What her name?"
"HIS name is Sam"
"How old is she?"
"HE's turning four in January"
"She's a lovely dog".
"I'm going to let HIM off his leash so HE can bite you in the arse"

Dunno, just gets on my nerves.
[/b]

[Guest roo]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

Eric,


a dog is one thing "and I can understand your frustration" but a child is something else, I would advise you don't refer to peoples children as "it"
I don't think it will help your cause!


Regards,

[eggrolyn1223]

Well, to most dog lovers, dogs are the same as children.It does make people realize stuff.When my "friend" said she wanted me to breed Duck and give a puppy to her, I asked her what I would do with the other pups.She said..Oh, you can sell them at the pet store and make some of the money you spent on her.She was really expensive right?UGH!!I was mAD!Asked her how she would feel if her mother wanted payment back for all the money spent on her...she said..OH :o

[Carolk9s]

I too don't care for the word 'it' but try to remember these are most likely non dog and non pet type people.
As far as gender, Jesse BSD is called she and her all the time, I used to say it's because he's a pretty boy. He's matured into more of a 'handsome' dog but he still gets the girly talk now and then. These don't bother me as much as someone reacting with fear or dislike, what would steam me is for anyone to call any of my dogs 'filthy beasts' or 'nasty' or dog forbid, 'vicious'.
I have to smile when Jesse is called a wolf, usually I correct them but every now and then...
The dogs all say just remember to call us for dinner!

[eric]

Hi Goblin,

I understand where you are coming from, and I doubt I will actually be calling peoples kids "it" anytime soon. I think you are certainly correct that it would be detrimental in my attempts to change peoples' attitudes towards dogs.

I would argue, however, that the sentiment you express regarding the difference between children and dogs is perhaps in the eye of the beholder.

While I cringe at the phrase "my dogs are like my kids", I can say without reservation that the emotional attachment I have to my dogs is extremely intense.

Several years ago (before I had dogs) there was a fellow here who drowned trying to save his dog. At the time I thought: "What an idiot". Now I think "That's me". I would die trying to save my boys, and I know that my wife would as well.

I do not say this lightly, but I say it without thought. It is the most powerful statement I can make regarding my love for my dogs.

I'm not a nut (I hope) or some recluse living in a shack with 30 dogs who hasn't had human contact in years. But my wife and I do share our home with 3 lovely dogs that bring more joy and happiness into our lives than just about anything else. Perhaps we have a different world view than most when it comes to dogs.

For these reasons, when someone calls my boys "it" I tend to bristle because it mitigates and belittles the relationship I have with them, and implies their inferiority. It is the same mentality which says we shouldn't deeply mourn upon their passing, that we should put them down in the face of medical expense, that they are less worthy of love, compassion and mercy.

There is an underlying implication that we are superior and in my humble opion, this is a dangerous belief to harbor. Our past is littered with examples of what occurs when we think ourselves superior to others, and you need only to drive to the nearest shelter to see the results of people who think its "just" a dog or "just" a cat.

I realize it is easy to romaticize the image of our dogs and some of us, myself included, are perhaps too quick to see our dogs in a golden light. I see purity of spirit, devoid of malice, a profound desire for my company, a loyal companion what would protect me to his death. Others see a dumb dog.

However, I think the same fault can be found in those with children. Where a parent sees an innocent child, untainted by adulthood, others see all the faults of an adult on a smaller scale. Quick to lie, shamelessly manipulate, injure over a triviality and steal without remorse. My wife is a grade 1 teacher, so I hear lots of stories. I am always surprised by the difference in how the parents see their children vs. the what an unattached observer sees.

Are children different than dogs? Of course. Better? Not for me, but that is my personal opinion and I certainly would not expect someone with kids to share this view.

I know this is not what you said, and that I am most likely putting words in your mouth. Its not my intent to offend you, just wanted to elaborate on why I feel the way I do.

Cheers,
Eric

[quote name='Goblin']Eric,


a dog is one thing "and I can understand your frustration" but a child is something else, I would advise you don't refer to peoples children as "it"
I don't think it will help your cause!


Regards,[/quote]

[mouseatthebusstop]

[quote name='eric']

While I cringe at the phrase "my dogs are like my kids", I can say without reservation that the emotional attachment I have to my dogs is extremely intense.

Several years ago (before I had dogs) there was a fellow here who drowned trying to save his dog. At the time I thought: "What an idiot". Now I think "That's me". I would die trying to save my boys, and I know that my wife would as well.
[/quote]
I ALSO FELT LIKE YOU DID BEFORE I HAD THE DOGS. WHEN I READ ABOUT SOMEONE DROWNING TO SAVE THEIR DOG. I TOO CAN UNDERSTAND IT NOW

[wildbunch]

I understand all of your feelings completely. These are the ones that get to me the most:

Look at the pretty husky (he's a malamute)
Wow, it's a snowdog. (from the movie, ugh)
They call Kimba "Simba" even though I correct them all the time.
Why do you have all those dogs? (well I think it's probably cause I just plain love dogs)
They call He a She or She a He or She and He It.

I know I'm being silly but those comments really get under my skin for some reason.
It's a little obvious to me that I have 3 very large dogs, they don't have to tell me wow you have 3 giant dogs. LOL
Okay I've done my ranting.
Thanks for the ear.

[Guest Anonymous]

I can understand where you are coming from. Although, stupid people are not just regulated to those who call Hers He or Hes Her or dogs an it. My 3 year old human child is obviously a boy, nothing girlie about his features, wearing a hat that says "Daddy's BOY" and people will still say, "what a pretty little girl" ??????? I dismiss them as morons and think no more of it. I truly think I am one of those people who say my dogs are like my children....I have 4 legged children and a 2 legged one. My son calls the girls his sisters and they are his best friends and playmates. He has daycare--so do they, he goes to playgroups--so do they......of course I can't show my human child but he would look silly with a CH in front of his name anyway.

Later,
Trinity

[Guest Anonymous]

Eric,


Do you have kids?

understand your love for your dog but lets look at this:

"Several years ago (before I had dogs) there was a fellow here who drowned trying to save his dog. At the time I thought: "What an idiot". Now I think "That's me". I would die trying to save my boys, and I know that my wife would as well. "

Are you saying that your dog is more important than your wife? beacuse if you did God forbid ever loose your life trying to save your dog the only person that would truley suffer would be your wife who would then be with out a dog and a husband.

I have thought about this before also and have come to the conclusion that my love and obligations to my family out weight those for the dog. So in my case the dog drownds but my Son still has a father and my Wife a husband!

I two Love my dog....but it is just that... a dog

[wildbunch]

Goblin,

I completely disagree. Our 3 dogs ARE our children. My husband and I have convinced our parents that these are their grandchildren. No two-legged breeds in this family.
My husband and I would definately give our lives to save one of our fur kids.
To some of us these dogs are our lives, our reason for living.
Yes you can have your opinion but most of us on this forum are completely 100% devoted to our 4-legged kids.
In my family the dogs come first, us second, we don't go on vacation unless they can go too. We don't buy a vehicle without their approval. And so many more things. They always, always come first.
They are our children.

[Carolk9s]

Quote:'Quick to lie, shamelessly manipulate, injure over a triviality and steal without remorse. '
Actually, with a generous interpretation of the above, I can say I have seen 3 of the 4 behaviours above in EACH of my dogs. Lying is the only one I have not seen.
Jesse would manipulate Brittany, if she was in my lap, he would first glare at her. If that did not work, he would grab a stuffed toy and prance around until she took the bait and jumped down to play. He did not want to play! Quick as a flash he would be in my lap leaving her alone on the floor with the toy.
Brittany will manipulate people, she puts on a face that just screams 'NO ONE LOVES ME'. She's fairly successful in getting sympathy and kisses.
Both girls would STEAL each others food in an instant. Heck they would steal mine if I ate down at floor level with them.
Injure over a triviality? Maybe not actually injure but certainly threaten to, over a perceived slight, a bump from an overly exuberant youngster, another dog approaching for attention while first dog is getting attention.
Now perhaps these behaviours are a DIRECT result of our domestication of them. Perhaps WE have introduced the unnatural circumstances that have caused dogs to adopt behaviours not seen in wild canids.
Having said this, I still think dogs exhibit behaviours we should ALL strive to emulate. Instant forgiveness, not holding a grudge, total joy at being reunited with a loved one etc etc.

On another note, if I had a malamute, and someone confused him for a husky, I don't think I would get terribly put out. Many people think of a husky as a big sled pulling dog, they don't necessarily think of the Sibe. Heck my belgian has been called everything from a wolf to a black collie to a lab mix to a just plain mutt. Sometimes when I am asked what kinda dawg you got there I just say spoiled, smile and then tell the truth. I am glad for a chance to educate people whether they are 'dog' people or not.

[Guest Anonymous]

Well I guess the one thing we all have in common is a love of dogs. I two refer to Goblin as my Sons little brother, even if he out weighs him by 60lbs : )

I don't want to start a fight over my views on animal vs human life here.
So for those who don't agree with me I guess we can just agree to have diffrent opinions. I mean no disrespect in my views to those out their that would give their life for their dogs....I just hold diffrent values.

Regards,
goblin.

[Carolk9s]

Tis funny, some of my coworkers refer to the dogs as my 'kids'. I call them my furkids. I also call them the reason I have to work so hard so I can buy them things.
I just about fell over the first time my own mother said they were my 'family'. It took her a couple of years to get used the doggie grandma moniker.

[Hobbit]

Since we are just stating our own opinions --- I'm not commenting on anyone else's opinion, just stating MY OWN.

Eric, you talk like 30 dogs with no human contact is a BAD thing... :wink:

Given the choice of living the rest of my days with no human contact, and just my dogs --- dogs, hands down.

If my dog and I were in a burning building and I could only save myself and one other person or my dog --- well, my dog and I would think of the other person often. Am I anti-social? Yes.

Do I have a child? Yes, a grown one. And my dogs have never treated me as badly as she has.

[eggrolyn1223]

I would give my life to save Duck from drowning..that probably wouldnt happen though, since the only "bodies of water" we have in Tainan are the gutters.

[bk_blue]

Eric, I sometimes call a dog "it" if I do not know the sex, and don't really want to embarrass myself by looking to see if there are dangly bits or not :wink: and don't want to offend the owner by calling it a he if it's a she or vice versa... so maybe that's what other people think too? Though I will say I am very devoted to my dog and I know he would risk his life trying to save me from harm, and I would do the same for him if I could. Blitz gets called a "she" all the time; like Carol's Jesse, I think it's because he's so damn pretty :wink: and the lack of obvious genitalia and cute red bandanna probably don't help either! :D

[eric]

Goblin,

No, my wife and I don't have any children by choice. Perhaps I would feel differently if we did.

And I concur with your final post, it is futile to try and convince the other of the validity of our positions. It simply comes down to different choices.

But to answer your question, my obligations and responsibility are to my family as well. The difference is that I include my dogs in my definition of family. I do not have "lesser" family members.

I was intrigued by what you said regarding leaving my wife without a husband, and last night my wife and I discussed this topic at length. What my wife basically told me is that she would expect me to do everything that I can to save one of the boys (as she would), and to not do so would be to betray who I am. My wife would still have a husband, but that husband would not be the same man she fell in love with. And I do not want to be that person. I would be haunted by the thought that I hadn't done all that was possible.

Understand that I am not talking about a Hollywood "Sophie's Choice" style dilemma, with a Nazi officer asking me to chose between my wife or my dogs. I am talking about something that could realistically happen, such as a fire, falling through ice, being attacked by another animal, etc...

If one of my dogs were in trouble, and there was even a slim chance that I could save them, I would do so. What kind of man would I be if I did not do everything possible to save those that I love most? I would be a selfish coward.

I do, however, completely understand your position and the decision you have made, and I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here. It is a very personal matter that we all have to decide for ourselves.

I am curious however, if you have followed your decision to its logical end. In the future you will perhaps be blessed with another child. God-forbid, if one of your children were in mortal danger, do you let him/her perish? This is the most logical decision, since to die saving one child would not only leave your wife a widow but a single mother as well, and leave your remaining child fatherless. The rational decision is to let the one perish, because as Capt. Kirk was so fond of saying; "The needs of the many outweight the needs of the few." Letting the one die to be around and provide for the remainder of your family is the logical decision.

Again, I do not disagree with your decision. It is the right decision for you. I just find this an interesting intellectual argument.

The reverse can also be argued. If you are willing to die saving your dog, where do you stop? Do you die to save your hamster, your parakeet, your goldfish. Why would a dog deserve to be saved but not your goldfish? One could argue that because dogs are so superbly adapted to us, that the bond is simply much stronger than to other animals.

Dunno. Made me think...

[quote name='Goblin']Eric,


Do you have kids?

understand your love for your dog but lets look at this:

"Several years ago (before I had dogs) there was a fellow here who drowned trying to save his dog. At the time I thought: "What an idiot". Now I think "That's me". I would die trying to save my boys, and I know that my wife would as well. "

Are you saying that your dog is more important than your wife? beacuse if you did God forbid ever loose your life trying to save your dog the only person that would truley suffer would be your wife who would then be with out a dog and a husband.

I have thought about this before also and have come to the conclusion that my love and obligations to my family out weight those for the dog. So in my case the dog drownds but my Son still has a father and my Wife a husband!

I two Love my dog....but it is just that... a dog[/quote]

[yellowlabsrule]

"Several years ago (before I had dogs) there was a fellow here who drowned trying to save his dog. At the time I thought: "What an idiot". Now I think "That's me". I would die trying to save my boys, and I know that my wife would as well. "

Can't most dogs swim???

[Carolk9s]

"Can't most dogs swim???"
Well, yes most can.
However, like Mei-Mei said, the body of water is a factor, also the age of the dog, condition of the dog, length of time in the water etc etc. Jesse BSD can swim, but at age 11 in rough cold water, how long would he last? Hard to say. He used to give me fits when I took him to the ocean, he would wade out so far, a wave would sweep him up and he'd be swimming like mad, I was so afraid of him getting swept out! Of course I also worried that a shark would get him :( OK, slim chance of that but still a chance!
I would holler for him to come back to shore because my heart just could not take the worry! :-?

[Guest Anonymous]

Eric,

I work in Biotech and have been trained is HAZMAT and various first aid and emergency training. The one thing you learn is not to rush into a situation to save some one before you know what you are going into or the end result will most likely end up that 2 people need saving or worse off yet dead. You also learn that some times you have to let some die to save others, it is sad but true...does not do much good to spend 30minits trying to save a lost cause whale 2 others with a better chance die. This is the brutal reality of it and only the survivors are thankful, were they better poeple? more deserving? it does not matter. As for your question would I jump into a situation to save my child knowing the out come to be most likely mean both our demise...the smart, right, intelligent thing to do would be not to make 2 causalities where their is only one...With that said I would not think twice before I went in to save him/her. But again you are getting to my views on animal life vs. human life....just my views
Again this is just the type of moral argument I did not wan tot venture into as it cam be stretched out far past the original issue of animal vs. human life. I understand some do not see a difference in value in animal life "i.e. out pets" vs a human life "ie. Our children

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='eric']....No, my wife and I don't have any children by choice. Perhaps I would feel differently if we did...

[/quote][/quote]

I wonder that myself. How differently would I feel about my dogs if we had kids???