Would YOU chain your dog up?

[Guest roo]

DogWhisperer, guest, gonetothe dogs and ebby.

8) You have obviously read some posts since changing
names AGAIN.
Please try to control for venom for this site.
Any more rude or abusive posts
[size=7]
WILL BE DELETED[/size]

IF ALL YOU WANT TO DO IS BE RUDE TO EVERYONE
GO AND DO IT ELSE WHERE.
ROO

[Guest Anonymous]

I dont know the people on here except by their posts. And some have posted right here under this topic that they actually chain their animals up instead of investing in a dog run or a fenced yard....THAT I have a problem with.
Making an animal a target by chaining them up in a yard that obviously has accessability (or no need for the chain) is cruel and asking for trouble for the animal. And anyone who thinks that is acceptable shouldnt own a dog.

[Guest roo]

[quote name='dogwhisperer']I dont know the people on here except by their posts. And some have posted right here under this topic that they actually chain their animals up instead of investing in a dog run or a fenced yard....THAT I have a problem with.
Making an animal a target by chaining them up in a yard that obviously has accessability (or no need for the chain) is cruel and asking for trouble for the animal. And anyone who thinks that is acceptable shouldnt own a dog.[/quote]

YOU MAY NOT KNOW PEOPLE ON HERE EXCEPT BY THEIR POSTS BUT
I KNOW WHO MAKES THEM BY THEIR IP :lol:

[Hobbit]

[quote name='dogwhisperer']I dont know the people on here except by their posts. And some have posted right here under this topic that they actually chain their animals up instead of investing in a dog run or a fenced yard....THAT I have a problem with.
Making an animal a target by chaining them up in a yard that obviously has accessability (or no need for the chain) is cruel and asking for trouble for the animal. And anyone who thinks that is acceptable shouldnt own a dog.[/quote]


Ebby, Gonetothedogs, Guest and whatever else you want to call yourself:

YOU have some nerve with your posts. At least none of these people DUMP their dogs because they get another one that they THINK they can make money off it ----- why? Because YOU think that this dog OWES YOU something in life.

Now, who is the one being self-rightous? HINT: [b]YOU[/b].
And, who is being abusive? HINT: [b]YOU[/b].
Last, who is the cruelest of all? HINT: [b]YOU[/b].

Sorry, Roo, that was nasty. Delete it if you need to, it won't hurt my feelings.

[corgilady]

[quote name='Hobbit']Dogwhisper,

I wish I knew each and every person on this forum personally just like you do. :wink:

Then, by knowing them, their everyday duties, their life style, their ins and outs, their schedules, their morals, their beliefs, etc ..... then I could sit back and judge them, also. How did you come to know every single person on this forum so well?[/quote]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hobbit my essay is in the mail. :wink:

And by the way, about chaining dogs: around 8 or 10 years ago I knew of a chow who was tied out...his chain was one of those rubber covered ones, looked very safe. Well the covering kind of wore or something, and when the people brought him in to the vet, chain and all, it had twisted around his fur until it had his skin too....he had to be anesthetized just to get it undone! Owie!
That said, I do tie mine out front when I am working on the roses. They like to sit out there with me. :wink:

[Hobbit]

Not everyone has the same income, or the same living arrangements, or nice neighbors, or the perfect dog with the perfect temperment etc...

There are sometimes circumstances that may call for a dog to be secured or tethered out, either by rope, chain, cable, etc.... it may not be perfect, it may not be something that some of us would do, but --- given the alternative of the dog being ran over or hurt; and there wasn't any other means to keep this dog safe --- then tethering it doesn't look so bad.

Yes, you are probably shaking your head and saying, "if you don't have the means to begin with then you shouldn't have a dog". I'm not talking about this. I am speaking of --- life changes that occur sometimes beyond our control.

I would not, normally, tie a dog out. BUT, if I had to because of circumstances beyond my control --- I would, I would have no choice.

I'm not going to judge anyone else that does this, because I don't live in their shoes, nor do I live in their house or in their life. And I'm not talking about the people who tie their dog to a sofa in the yard, or the old junk car, or the camper shell, or the tree because they are not fit owners. Those type of people, I agree --- should not have any kind of pet.

[Hobbit]

[quote name='K']Please all send 10,000 word essay subject matter "my life" to Hobbit to be in by Friday...thank you :lol:[/quote]

:o :o

[Aroura]

[quote name='Hobbit']Not everyone has the same income, or the same living arrangements, or nice neighbors, or the perfect dog with the perfect temperment etc...[/quote]

Good point Hobbit. I am one of those people who does not have the income to afford one of those shock fences, or to build a six foot high colourbond, BUT that doesn't mean I shouldn't own a dog, does it? Luckily, I'm in the position where I am still at home with my parents, I don't have a lease that has just run out and I am not being kicked out of home with my dog, so I have the time to choose where I will live and find a suitable place with a yard.

I think the term "...then you shouldn't own a dog..." is being thrown around far too much, dogs are not disposable objects, just because circumstances change you shouldn't be made to feel guilty just because you own a dog. Yes, I know it IS a privelage to own a dog, but it is also a responsibility that once you own that dog that you do everything in your control to keep that dog, and to keep it in the best living arrangements possible. And yes, sometimes that may be on a chain, even if only for six months, it is better than dumping the dog and finding another one when your situation is better again. Leases run out, people loose jobs and sometimes people who love their dog more than anything else in the world just have no choice.

Dogwhisperer, I really think your over reacting... just because I think it was two people said they keep their dogs on chains... and only because they knock down fences etc, you come on here jumping down everyone's throaghts like we are all irrisponsible dog owners. Try a little empathy, maybe not everyone is as well off as you, my suggestion is that you take your snobbish behavior elsewhere and leave us to our civilised conversations.

[corgilady]

I have been thinking all day about that....how quick we all are to judge... speaking as one of the guilty ones... :oops: I don't think we are doing each other/ourselves a service by judging so quickly, or perhaps I really mean by jumping onto each other so quickly....if our goal is to educate then we need to keep someone *~besides our perfect selves~* around TO educate....does that make any sense? and again, I am talking to myself here, as well as others.

And of course situations do change; I know when my hubby and I had kids, we had all these " I would never" statements, that all went right down the toilet once we had REAL screaming babies to deal with! And it's the same with our pets!!! Also there are divorces, sudden moves, job losses, etc that can affect our pets' living arrangements. So I guess all we can do is the best we can do.....

And this is only slightly off topic :wink: Before you judge someone, walk a mile in their shoes. Then you will be a mile away, and you will have their shoes.
:lol: :lol:

[Horsefeathers!]

I am far more tolerant than you would imagine in many ways, Corgi, but I do have to strongly disagree with a few things.

First of all, I have to say that I respect your change of heart, but I stand by my convictions.

I only chose to get involved in the "other" thread (which carried over to this one) after watching this person for weeks post this stuff and get lots of diplomatic advice and attempted support. It wasn't a sudden thing. If you're ever reading through old posts just for lack of anything better to do, you'll see that I actually tend to stay away from many of the debates if others are handling it on their own. Remember the whole Mary thing? I don't think I posted ONE time to that because it was covered. However, prior to me speaking up about this Ebby thing, everyone had been diplomatic and tried several attempts at polite dialogue in helping her with different things. Diplomacy did not change her mind and she constantly justified reckless (IMO) behavior, so that's when I got involved. I'm all for diplomacy and working through things, but sometimes it takes a good kick in the butt to get someone's blood going enough to react, whether positively or negatively. This person has had MORE than her fair share of positive responses in the last several weeks, but she STILL planned to continue with something I do not agree with. Right or wrong, I have my own set of ethics and, just like anyone else, all I can do is stand up for what [b]I[/b] think is right. Sometimes it's like being in a one horse parade, but I don't mind standing out in a crowd.

I extended a sincere offer to work with this person and try to help any way I could, but all we got in return were alter egos and she created her own personal amen corner in the form of other identities. It's obvious that she's just angry and lashing out at this point rather than actually being a productive member of this "community."

Sorry to disagree, but this is not a case of anyone being quick to judge anything. Again, it was weeks before I responded to anything. I honestly do get frustrated with people when they hear something they don't want to hear and instantly label their opposition "judgmental." It's not always a simple case of right and wrong, but this time is and I stand by that.

Sorry, Corgi. :(

[corgilady]

[quote name='Horsefeathers!']First of all, I have to say that I respect your change of heart, but I stand by my convictions. [/quote]
I'm sorry, I must not have said what I meant. I have not had a "change of heart", as far as changing any beliefs. I would just rather educate than attack. And as far as someone tying their dog out, I was trying to say, let's look at the whys and wherefores. 8) And in my statement that we were 'judging' too quickly, I certainly [b]was [/b]talking to dogwhisperer!!!
[quote]
Remember the whole Mary thing?[/quote] No, I came right after that, or maybe during and didn't get it. :roll:


[quote]
I extended a sincere offer to work with this person and try to help any way I could, but all we got in return were alter egos and she created her own personal amen corner in the form of other identities. It's obvious that she's just angry and lashing out at this point rather than actually being a productive member of this "community."[/quote] I completely agree. She doesn''t [b]WANT[/b] to be a member of our community.

[quote]
Sorry, Corgi. :([/quote]
NOT a problem, horsefeathers!!! I was not throwing my dart at anyone in particular, and certainly not you....you, out of all of us, went wayyy beyond the call of duty with your soul-baring "talks" with this woman. (man?) she/he just didn't get it. So sorry.

[bk_blue]

Does anyone else think it's a little immature to be creating different names etc and completely go sick at everyone else? Y'know, I wouldn't do that even if I couldn't be tracked by my IP... it's just really... well, stupid! :roll:
Sometimes I understand that you may have to tie your dog up, for whatever reason... I could have tied BK up when he knocked over the fence but instead I chose to leave him inside the house when I was out and then taking him back to dad's so he could play outside and I wouldn't have to worry about him escaping. That's just my way of doing things, I would still do it that way because he wouldn't do well tied up and he'd either kill himself trying to get loose or get loose (he is incredibly strong) and go out and get run over. :( I don't like the idea of [i]anyone [/i]tying their dog up... but if there is no other possible alternative what can you do?
Letting a dog live out its days on the end of a rope is a different story and should NEVER happen. Aroura I know you would never do that, you love your doggies too much! None of us are "perfect" pet owners but we all learn new things every day and that's the main thing, we learn how to do things better so our pets can lead good lives.

[Guest roo]

It is sometimes very hard trying to be diplomatic when things
are said and or written that we don't agree with.
And we are only ever given part stories anyway :wink:
I thought that the cat litter topic was done and dusted :-?
But as is often the case it moved around the board and the topics.

For thse of you who would like to know
Apparently :o
Ebby is Ebby
Goneto the dogs is her Mum
Dogwhisperer is her sister.

Ebby's sister :o was playing devils advocate and was upset that her sister
had been hurt and offended.
My opinion of all this will stay mine.

We all come to this forum to try to help everyone.
Sometimes things are said that people do not want to hear,
it is human nature to get upset and stroppy when you feel
either that you are pushed into a corner or that you have been
wronged in some way.
But, what is the point of a forum that just says oh thats ok :lol:
thats fine :lol: . you dont need any advice or info :lol:
There have been many times when posts have been made by
people that i have thought oh god not anotherone :x
But sometimes (ie toms puppy) these people just have not
got a clue and really want help.
othertimes we have trolls who just post for the hell of it all.

Bk to answer your question
I really do not know why people change their names,
maybe they are trolls, maybe they feel they have to hide behind
different names. maybe they feel they can say what they like
an no one will find out. :oops:

Anyway it is now done and dusted.
its over :lol:
And if Ebby, wants to come back as Ebby.
Fine.

Roo :evilbat:

[Ickle]

Roo that was very well put, Have just caught up with whats been going on and you have my full support in all you have said
Ickle :)

[Horsefeathers!]

Oh, Corgi, then I [u]totally[/u] misunderstood! Please forgive me!


[size=2]Imagine my red face...[/size] :oops:

[Hobbit]

[quote name='bk_blue']
Letting a dog live out its days on the end of a rope is a different story and should NEVER happen. [/quote]


I agree with you on this. "FOREVER" on a chain is not a quality of life for any animal, neither is a wire cage, or a small kennel. I am talking about a dog that spends about 90% to 100% of his time for the rest of his life, everyday like this.

[bk_blue]

Why some people get dogs and then put them in cages all day every day or on chains, without any human or canine interaction or a chance to exercise is beyond me. What is the point of having a dog then?! :evil:

[Guest Anonymous]

my dog is an escape artists, ive got to put a collar on plus a harness an attach them both together.so for some of us "it's a must" :

[bk_blue]

:o

My dog is an escape artist as well... but I don't tie him up... in fact that's why he's not living with me at the moment- he knocked down 2 fences and ran away in a week, so he's at dad's while the new fence is being built. (it's actually finished now- yay! :D - I'm picking him up tomorrow.)

[cairnmom]

I tie Frodo up for maybe 15 minutes once a day. He has managed to find two places where he can crawl under the fence (rabbits keep digging under). Until spring when we can put up our new 6' privacy fence, he needs to be outside on a lead or with someone. I had him bolt under the fence and race up the block to visit another dog. But, I would never just leave them out there. I let him stay until he is ready to come in and he comes in :)
Jessica

[Carolk9s]

Just like ANY training or restraining device, if used properly a chain in itself is not a bad thing. Certainly dogs that spend their ENTIRE lives on a chain are (in my opinion) being abused.
If a dog is a dedicated escape artist, the responsible owner does what needs to be done to ensure the safety of this dog.
One morning I was getting ready to back out of the driveway, suddenly there was Candy beside the van. Dang! Didn't have time to figure out the problem that morning so I put her in the crate in the house. I came home for lunch that day to let her out. When I got home that evening, I put her out in the back then went to the front to try and see how she was getting out. I called her to me, little dog dug and clawed at the gravel under the wooden gate and was sliding through on her side. Fixed that, got a piece of 4x4 pvc lattice and slid it under the gate. The lattice extended on either side but about 2 feet. I put bricks on the edges of the lattice to help keep it in place. She's never gotten out that way again! Of course she's also a good bit bigger than those days 8)

[corgilady]

Speaking of chaining your dog.....

I visit a business associate each week. They have a chow (purebred, black, laid back dog) on about a 4 foot chain on the carport. I asked their children whether he is ever walked, and they said no. he has no dog house, altho I suppose the carport would be counted as "shelter". I don't see anyone pet him. He is rather surprised that I talk to him as I go in and out. There are usually about 8 "piles" in his little area, and every so often somebody goes out and hoses it off (without moving the dog out of the way.)

Suggestions?

[bk_blue]

Poor dog. Is there any tactful way you can educate this family about responsible pet ownership without damaging the business relationship? Or to hell with it, just go in there with printouts of the hundreds of stories of animal neglect complete with sickening photos. :wink:

[corgilady]

BK :lol: that is how I usually handle things, go at it with both barrels!

I have tried talking to the children, and (briefly) to the mother. They think the dog leads a charmed life. :cry: The kids are completely uninterested in whether he is lonely. I walked mine by their house for months so they could see that my dogs get walks, and conversation, and treats.

[Shannon_C]

[img]http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Fair/1901/sunshine.gif[/img]

The picture above is of
Sunny who held her head up for this picture, taken ten days after rescue by the Lawrence County Humane Society in Ironton, Ohio. She want's you all to know that she is a very sweet girl who loves and trusts everyone she meets.

Sunshine, Sunny as we call her, came to the shelter on August 29, 1999 as an animal abuse case. Sunny is a Golden Retriever, about one year old.

When I first saw Sunny she was huddled in a pet carrier with a chain around her neck. Her owner had placed the chain around her neck so tightly that it had grown into her skin. The pictures taken of Sunny on that first day are extremely graphic. It's the worst case of abuse I have ever seen. If you had to turn your head away from the picture above DON'T go HERE TO SEE THE ORIGINAL PICTURES. [url]http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Fair/1901/sunnyneck1.html[/url]

Sunshine was in kind of a shocked condition but you could still see that she was pleading for help. She was quickly rushed to a vet. We did not expect to see her return to the shelter.

When she did return she was groggy, but in surprisingly good spirits. The wound to her neck was indescribable. It was at least two inches deep and went all the way around her neck. She was also suffering from mange. When she scratched herself it pulled on the wound and hurt her terribly. We vowed to see that Sunny's owner be brought to justice.
Debby Scarlotti

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UPDATE OCTOBER 15, 1999
The Herald Dispatch has kindly granted permission to reprint their article on this webpage. Go HERE to read the article. [url]http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Fair/1901/newsstory.html[/url]
Justice for Sunny ~ Judge O. Clark Collins, Jr. sentenced Homer Friend to 90 days in jail, a $250 fine, $60 court costs, and one year's probation, during which time Mr. Friend is not allowed to have pets. The humane society will be picking up any other pets Mr. Friend has. Thanks to everyone who wrote on Sunny's behalf. Because of all of you, things may be turning around for abused pets in Lawrence County.

UPDATE NOVEMBER 6, 1999
Sunny went home to Illinois with her new mom, Jennifer.


UPDATE NOVEMBER 7, 1999
Sunny arrived safely in Illinois where she enjoyed romping on two acres of fenced in land, playing frisbee, and sleeping in a bedroom for the first time in her life.

But all is not well. Last night Sunny had a seizure and had to be rushed to the vet...Jennifer's vet said this could be a permanent condition caused by lack of oxygen to the brain when her air was cut off by the chain.


UPDATE NOVEMBER 12, 1999
Letter from Jennifer:

Hi! All is well. Chloe went into the hospital yesterday to begin her heartworm treatment. She received her last shot today. I saw her xrays, and her heart was not enlarged, Thank God, but she did have one artery that was enlarged, probably due to the worms, so we got her in at a good time.


UPDATE NOVEMBER 13, 1999
Jennifer wrote "I brought Chloe home tonight. Boy, was she glad to see us! Wagging her tail...very happy girl. I think she feels better already...She still has a lot more to get done.....

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UPDATE NOVEMBER 27, 1999
Sad news. Sunny continued to have siezures and had to stay at the vets through Thanksgiving.

Due to circumstances beyond her control, Jennifer had to give Sunny up to Golden Retriever Rescue in Illinois.

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UPDATE NOVEMBER 28, 1999
Letter from Golden Opportunities

Sunshine officially entered Golden Opportunities' rescue program this morning. Sunshine is now in her foster home which does have other Golden Retrievers, though she will not meet any of them until after she completes her heartworm treatment program which won't be until 12/15 or so. She then will be spayed and microchipped.

Once she gets the rest of her medical treatment taken care of, her foster family will begin to very slowly socialize her with very laid back goldens to see how Sunny responds. It is quite possible, and my guess at this point, that Sunny is not dog aggressive, per se, but instead just unaware of how to appropriately play with another dog. Typically very doable for us as a group and this foster home in particular - but we'll wait and see how Sunny tells us she feels.
In the meantime, Sunny will be getting a lot of love and attention and she'll begin to learn the basic obedience commmands. I have to tell you when I picked her up today, she was in much better shape than I had expected she would be. And what a delight! She is a sweet little girl, and we will do everything humanly possible to find out who she is and what her perfect home will be made of. I'll try to keep you posted on how she is doing.
Beth

UPDATE DECEMBER 5, 1999
Just a quick note to update you on little Sunny's progress.

First and foremost, she is absolutely ADORED by her foster family which is composed of 2 humans and 6 golden retrievers (3 fosters, 2 fosters that were adopted, and the family's "original" golden). Sunny has met 4 of the goldens she lives with, and seems to have taken a liking to the older males. She even had a very short play session, which did her good, but had to be cut short because of her heartworm status. Her exposure to the other dogs has been in short intervals and closely monitored.
Sunny is not completely housebroken yet, but she's trying, and as you would expect of a little girl who did not start out having the homelife we expect our goldens to have, she is still investigating many things in her home, and chewing on them whether she should or not!
Sunny is not crazy about being in her crate when the family is away and barks quite a bit to voice her displeasure. But she's coming along, and now listens to doggie CD's which seem to help soothe her. She also has goldens keeping her company outside her crate which prevents her from feeling lonely.
She is learning the basic obedience commands and I'm sure will make everyone proud with a little more practice.

I know so many people care about Sunny - she's stolen the hearts of everyone who has met her and many who have not. She is in great foster hands and we at Golden Opportunities are honored to have been given the chance to help her on her journey to a perfect life. Beth

UPDATE DECEMBER 23, 1999
Sunny is doing fine. We had her spayed last weekend, and she came through the spay just fine. She did seizure again several days before her spay, so the vets did a special procedure when they spayed her to make it easier on her. She was back in her foster home that same evening. Sunny is playing ok with some of the other dogs in her foster home, and is more comfortable in her crate. She is not housebroken, we have discovered, and so that will keep her fostered a little longer while we try to get her housebroken. She is doing very well in her foster home...Sunny is not ready to be adopted out yet - we aren't even sure she's on the right dosage of phenobarbitol yet, since she's had a couple of seizures. We are going to run whatever tests we need to and will foster her as long as necessary until we feel we can give her adoptive family a complete medical picture of her. Beth

UPDATE ~ JANUARY 18, 2000
Reba (Sunny) should hit our webpage this week. We thought that Reba was ready to be adopted to the right family now and started going through our applicaitons to see if anyone could provide her what we are looking for when just yesterday, out of the clear blue, she had three seizures in a 12 hour period of time. Her 3rd seizure last night took her 20 minutes to recover from. She is now at the vets and they are monitoring her and taking more blood samples to see if she is on the right dosage of pheno. Her foster family expects to bring her home tomorrow night. She hadn't seizured for us in almost a month so we were hoping she was on the correct dosage of pheno, but perhaps not. We also talked about doing an MRI on her - our thoughts are that there was neurological damage done to her when she went through all of her abuse. Her foster parents have noticed that after she seizes, she completely forgets everything she's learned for quite a period of time. Unfortunately the vets explained that when MRI's are done, they very seldom give very useful information - so we probably won't do one. Because she seized again and they were pretty severe, we are going to plan on fostering her for at least another month. She is doing much better with other dogs in her foster home - I saw her on Sunday morning - she was playing with an 18 month old female and an 18 month old male. Anyway, she'll be with us for awhile longer and we'll keep working on trying to figure out the seizures. In the meantime she is well loved and cared for. Beth

UPDATE ~ FEBRUARY 4, 2000
Sunny (Reba) goes to the University of Illinois for testing at the end of February. We are also currently trying some new anti-seizure medications to see if we have better luck. She is doing very well with the other goldens in her foster home - she LOVES playtime!! I saw her about two weeks ago and I don't think you'd recognize the confident little wiggle-butt she has become. She is soooo happy all of the time. she is gojng to make some family very happy - once we get the seizures under control. Beth

UPDATE ~ March 6, 2000
Reba's MRI came back normal, so there was no apparent physical neurological damage done as a result of her abuse. So bottom line is she is epileptic, and may need one more heartworm treatment, but other than that, there are no medical needs we are aware of. Reba's foster mom is diligently working on housebreaking, which Reba is NOT picking up on very quickly (even though it's already been 4 months). Reba is not a quick study, but she is in the best foster home she could possibly be in and is having a blast playing with the other dogs. I see her regularly and she is just a very happy pup. We think she is experiencing now, at 18 months, what she should have experienced much earlier in her life but probably didn't. There is no need to worry about her - we will find a perfect permanent home for her - it will just take awhile. But time is not an issue for us, and we learn more about her everyday.
If Reba is still with her foster family come June, she will begin formal obedience training. In the meantime her foster mom is working on the basics whenever she can. Reba also is hypothyroid, a very common medical condition, so she started her meds for that this week.

Rest assured, Reba is safe with us until her perfect permanent home is found!
Beth



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UPDATE ~ Sunny has finally been adopted. She has been seizure free for over a year.