Possible Solution.....

[eggrolyn1223]

Ok guys...I'm going to aska question...I want an answer...If you can give one....you can be rude if you want, maybe I deserve it... :-?
I came home from school today to find that my grandma had told the housekeeper to bring Duck to another crate outside.....and I was MAD.Because my grandma(I'm sounding unrespectful, I know, but that's what happens to anybody near my grandma) did not ask for my permission for Duck(she's literally my little girl) to be taken and put in a crate outside..!!!!!!
But then I thought of this "possible half-solution" to our problem.Just asking everybody's opinion if I do this:
Duck can stay in the big crate(it's a little bigger than the right size for a full-grown Great Dane, kind of like a play pen) when I'm not at home for a long time(school time), and when I come back home, I'll feed her, take her for her long playtime/walk, then bring her with me inside the house until I go to sleep, and then she'll go in the smaller crate for the night.I don't want her to go in the big crate for the night because I don't like the thought of her staying all alone outside... :( , and she can stay in the bigger crate so she'll have more room to move around.I know you have a question now...maybe somebody's going to get rude here.I want to stop housetraining until Duck's older, because there's no point in trying at all right now when she can't hold her bladder long enough...and by then she'll be more calm(I hope) and big enough to walk down the stairs.For now, I'll just take her outside(when I'm home, of course) every 2 hrs for potty, and when I'm not home, she can just pee into the newspaper pan under the crate(it's actually a cage).I know it will make housetraining harder later on, but there's really no point in doing it now if it won't work.

[Dad4duchess]

I think your half solution will work 8)

[Rowie-the-Pooh]

Hmmmmmmm......not sure as I got Rowie when she was fully housetrained. :-? But I also think your half solution will work :wink: hehe.......as long as the heat won't get to her(is it hot in taiwan? I'm not sure, as i've never been there! :wink: ) and no-one will be able to steal her from your yard, i'm sure she'll be fine :D
G :D :D D LUCK! :D

[Guest roo]

Dear Egg,
This is hard for me to write, but after reading all of the posts on Duck.
Viewing the lovely pictures of her, and reading all the problems you have with her.
I have to ask :o
was it really fair on you to get a puppy when it it so very hard for
you to give her the attention and care that she needs :roll:

I know your heart is in the right place, i know you dearly love her
BUT.
With the time spans that the pup is expected to stay caged all on her own
having to pee and pooh in her bed as there is no one around is very unfair.
There must be something else or someone else around that can help you take care of your dear little pup.
Is there anyone who would come in and walk her and play with her
between times, could she go to someone in the day.
Is there a day kennels around you.
Roo

[deepseasnake]

you already know how I feel, my mind hasnt changed since you first got the pup.

hey you didnt want to listen to me or the others when you first got here and I doubt you will now, but Roo is nice not rude and right, so listen to her

[quote]caged all on her own
having to pee and pooh in her bed as there is no one around is very unfair.[/quote]


[quote]was it really fair on you to get a puppy when it it so very hard for
you to give her the attention and care that she needs [/quote]

I'm not tring to be Rude Egg I'm just being honest maybe its not what makes you respond the best but its how I learn the best so I'm just gonna tell it how it is,
You are currently unable to give your dog the proper care and treatment its not your fault you live with your grandma or dad. All the 13 year olds I know live with parents too.
Its not your fault that they dont allow you the proper tools to care for a Lab puppy. Dogs DO take a toll on one's house.
But it IS you fault for putting the pup into a situation that makes him unhealthy, all the love in the world wont cure sickness dieses or the ill effects of solitary confinement.

Maybe we should go back to the first post you put up and see if anyone forsaw this problem.
I am not against YOU I am against what you are doing to your dog, I know your 13 and you must believe that your true feelings and love count for something but without the basics they dont.

just thought I should put this out there because I have been feeling it since you first arrived. No offense Egg we all goof up, its just a matter of what we do about the goof

[deepseasnake]

just for what ever I went back to your first thread


Smooshie said
[quote]you mean she won't EVER allow the dog to go outside to pee? I sure hope not because if this is a Lab puppy,it is going to grow to be a LARGE,very active dog. Are you not planning on taking her out for frequent walks??? (That is no life for a dog that size...or any size for that matter),[/quote]

Guest Pat said this
[quote]Your pup is being set up for failure in all areas w/ the way he's being treated, and in most areas, it borders on neglect and cruelty[/quote]

[quote]Your poor pup has no guidelines or rules to follow and your are giving him no socialization. By keeping and treating this pup the way things are going, he is going to become a big problem for your family WHICH IS NOT GOING TO BE HIS FAULT[/quote]

[quote]If you must follow your grandmother's rather idiotic rules, it may be best for your pup (and the kindest thing) to find him a new home[/quote]

[quote]Plain and simple, your dog is not being properly cared for by you and your family. It has no life, it has no chance of being a puppy, it has no chance to grow up to being an obedient, socialized, beloved companion. [/quote]


Mei Mei said
[quote]I agree with Guest Pat completely. I know that it is autre pays, autre customs, but I think a dog this size being kept inside so much of the time is a recipe for disasters[/quote]

[quote]but perhaps your grandmother is right that the dog needs to be moved to a more proper environment. [/quote]



Egg, do you realise we all thought you were a troll for the first week you were here, the things you described out did some of the guests here that make up pure science fiction to upset us.
Now we know you and realize your not a troll but the conditions still exsist, yeah you still love your dog but geez chick step back and take a look at the big picture. That dog may weigh 100 pounds in 2 years probably more like 80 but that kind of dog CANNOT live in a BOX 8 hours a day, no matter if its a horse box, its still a BOX. These puppy problems are NOTHING in comparison to what you will be faced with in the teenage years of a confined unsocialized 100 pound Lab.
really Egg I've said it all along, you need to find your pup a new home until you grow up and can get a home of your own.

[eggrolyn1223]

First if all, Duck's not going to be "in the pee".It's a tray thing under the cage.And she's not going to be caged up all her life...I'm thinking if the housekeeper can let her out when I'm gone....she DID bring her down from the fourth floor of our house...what's to stop her letting a dog out when she's already in the yard?I dunno how she'll get back in the crate though..there's actually no one else who can do this...all the poeple I know would either not own a dog or else use a punishment method on her...they would hit her if she even nipped them lightly.Taiwan IS hot, but it's winter right now, and she's gonna be housetrained before spring..I know THAT.The thing is, I'm waiting for my two-week New Year break where I can stay home ALL day and play with her, look after her and all.Saturday and Sunday ONLY doesn't really work.My friends dog(I'm not trying to say I want to be like that) stays in a cage all day(full-grown dog) and even when they are home.They only let him out when they feel like it and want to play with him...

[mouseatthebusstop]

If you want her house trained by spring you have got to keep at it . If you put it on hold now you will never train her

[Guest Anonymous]

Sorry, housetraining is just something you can't put off until a later time. You have a 4th floor of your home? I thought you had originally stated that you lived in an apt.

I know you are a teenager and you love your dog, but the truth of the matter is no matter what the customs of your country are, Duck is being neglected by having to spend approximately 18 hrs. a day in a crate. Whether your crate has a tray or not doesn't matter. He will never learn to be housebroken, and the fact is that a dog crated for this amount of time cannot possibly hold his urine and feces and by trying to do so will most likely cause major organ problems. Not meaning to degrade the customs of your country which you, yourself described, again I say this, dog has no life, and if you were in another country, your family would be charged with neglect. I would urge you to find this pup a good, loving home where he can be let outside and not be crated outside and have the chance to a happy life, and wait until you are grown and out on your own to ever own another animal, and at that time (even start now) to try and change the ideas of "pet ownership" in your land.

[deepseasnake]

for the record,
Egg you are dealing with details, there is a much bigger problem. Unless you plan to leave the house and live on your own at 15 years old, you are left with no choice. To crate a full grown Lab by no stretch of the imagination is right or okay. labs are runners they are meant to be in huge fields retrieving ducks and other game. Labs are meant to be trackers across huge exspanses of land. A Lab does not belong in a small box, no matter how much he gets to go outside. There are dogs that will do better in your circumstance but a large Lab is not one of them.

[Hobbit]

Please think about Duck. You've said before that NO ONE could possibly give her a better home than you. Geez, hate to be grouchy here....but, she isn't in the best environment NOW.

Please consider her feelings, consider how much she wants to get out and play, consider how she doesn't understand why you are being mean to her by leaving her in a crate all day and then 1/2 of the evening and then all night.

I know you think that you saved her by adopting her, but what about HER quality of life? She doesn't have much of one.

You never answered my questioned...does your building NOT have an elevator? If not, it's not very physically challenaged friendly, huh?

Not one person on this forum would think less of you if you re-homed Duck, we would all think of you as being responsible, considerate and a saint. :wink:

[Dad4duchess]

wow,

I thought the plan would work :-?

[deepseasnake]

Justin, its not about the plan and if it would work or not. Its about all these issues that we warned Egg about when she first came to us. She thought we were being rude and decieded to keep Duck now some of these things are starting to creep up, and they will only get worse with age and size.

[eggrolyn1223]

I guess you guys will never understand, because you don't live here.I don't blame you for that.Even if I gave Duck away to somebody in the country, she still wouldn't get all the exercise she needs.....true, the dogs aren't kep in cages in the country-- they are tied on heavy chains near the back of the house.The thing is, big dogs like Labradors just aren't kept as companion pets here...they are strictly guard dogs....barking when a stranger comes...etc.i know what you guys will say...so?AT least she'lll be in the COUNTRY!!But that's the country you know.The country here is just like a city, only without high buildings.My friend's dog just died from the poisoning chemicals used for the farm plants.The only real dog pets are little tiny dogs like maltese and poodles.It's ok if you understand....I'll just stop asking you questions that I know will get you guys worked up.If I was living in the US, I would do what you say right away.But maybe you aren't putting yourslef in my place, in Taiwan, and trying to make decisions for me without thinking.If you guys won't help me with my problems without thinking up more problems, I guess I'll just have to figure things out myself...I guess I'll never belong on this forum since I live in this bad dog country. :cry: :cry:

[deepseasnake]

Egg, if it is REALLY that bad why would you EVER get a large dog? did you think at all about what you would have to put it through? Why not go get a small house dog? why make duck suffer? youve given no reason except that you've failed in finding a better place. Egg you have not been to ALL of Taiwan and screened every citizen! I'll bet you could find a western missionary working over there that would love a dog companion maybe even as a treatment dog. Probably bring Duck back to the states every now and then. You give up to early and I dont care how hard youve looked or for how long if youv yet to find success why arnt you looking right now!

[quote]I guess I'll never belong on this forum since I live in this bad dog country.[/quote]

honestly Egg, why would you want to be/stay here?
you dont listen to us, no matter what you always revert to, "oh you guys dint understand, whine whine whine"
you cant give praticle advise to anyone in need as your only expeirence with dogs is justified abuse.
Every time you post we are reminded that right now there is a puppy locked in a jail because a little girl cant step back and see the big picture.

Hey you do whatever you want to do Egg, but I fail to see any benefit here that you are contributing yourself to!

[eggrolyn1223]

All I'm saying is bye, and I know what you'll think:Oh woohoo!!!That stupid troll egg is leaving!!!There'll be no more stupid annoying people that don't listen on this forum anymore!!!

[corgilady]

She is leaving because she is a child, and we have hurt her feelings. She loves Duck and feels that she would be abandoning him by giving him to a new owner.

Egg, what would happen if you left Duck in your room (not in the crate) for, say, one hour ? Would the room be destroyed? Would the carpet get peed on? what if you kept Duck out of the crate for a little at a time, building up to an hour? Then you could leave him out for a bit, and someone else (dad or housekeeper) could put him back up, for example, after you left for school. Or if your yard is safe for Duck, leave him in the yard and then let the housekeeper put him up. I think you will see less hyper behavior if Duck can get some exercise!

I really feel for you, Egg, and your predicament. It will be hard to resolve this situation, and it would be hard to give your dog up. :cry: You are very brave to go against your society's way of keeping their pets. You are trying to treat your dog in a more positive, loving way than the people around you and that is wonderful. You are [b]super![/b] I wish I knew more 13 year olds with your level of maturity! Good luck, no matter what you decide to do. :)

[gooeydog]

Can Duck run in the crate? If you're going to keep a dog in a pen, it should at least be big enough for them to stretch their legs a little. What are you going to do when she gets big enough to "fit" the crate, and doesn't have as much room to move around? Chances are, she won't be any "calmer" by then, so what will you do then? I'm not being mean, but you should consider that now, so you have plenty of time to prepare for it. You never answered whether she could be left in your room alone... if not, then does the yard have a fence? If you can't let her loose in your room or in the (fenced) yard, why not get her a cable run for in the yard? You can either buy one, or make one, and that will give her plenty of space to move around. As other people have said, she's not going to calm down as long as she's kept crated that much time out of the day. Most labs stay puppyish until they're a few years old, some longer. You're going to be dealing with puppy behavior/energy for a long time, so you need to figure something out. You asked for advice, people gave you advice. You don't have to use it, take what you want and discard the rest. You need to realize though, that the problems you are having with Duck aren't going to go away (if anything, they'll get worse), if you want them to get better, [b]you[/b] need to work to make them better. One more thing... if you want her to ever be fully housebroken, it's not a good idea to "put it on hold". If she's going in her crate, you'll have a hard time breaking her of going in "her space", which will probably eventually include the entire house.

[Guest roo]

Dear Egg,
Please Please dont go and get all upset and stroppy by what has been said. We do care, we are trying to understand, but we dont live there egg.
If we did i am sure you would have many of us prepared to give up some of our time to help you out with, walking , playing etc.
We are trying to help you here from affar.
We want you to succeeed.
You are one of us Egg.
Sometimes things people say hurt, but at least we can be bothered to say them.
I DID NOT THINK YOU A TROLL
I felt that was uncalled for and think many others agree.
I still think deep should be castrated
:lol:
Egg everyone is trying to help.
I will pm you tommorrrow OK

Roo

[deepseasnake]

[quote]I still think deep should be castrated [/quote]
It wont help it would just make me bitter :lol:

[quote]I DID NOT THINK YOU A TROLL
I felt that was uncalled for and think many others agree. [/quote]
I was not calling her a troll. I was reminding her that her situation with Duck was so bad and "set for failure" we (I was the LAST) thought she was a TROLL trying to stir the pot! I realise Egg is not a bad person she is just doing what she feels is right. Maybe you should all review what we told her when Duck was 6 weeks old and Egg came to us for help,

[url]http://forum.dogomania.com/viewtopic.php?t=1613&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0[/url]

from the very start this was a bad match up doomed to for catastrophy we told her then and we tell her now. We predicted the poop and potty problems as well as the hyperactivity Egg has yet to see and the bad behavior associated with NO SOCIALISATION that also has yet to develop.
This is bad no matter how you look at it, I dont care if she gives the dog hickies every time she comes home, A LAB DOES NOT BELONG IN A BOX [b]IT IS NOT A TOY [/b]
if Egg would just say "hey I was wrong to bring this animal here, I need help finding a better place" I'd lay off and do my best to find a home for duck

[mouseatthebusstop]

[quote name='corgilady']She is leaving because she is a child, and we have hurt her feelings. She loves Duck and feels that she would be abandoning him by giving him to a new owner.

Egg, what would happen if you left Duck in your room (not in the crate) for, say, one hour ? Would the room be destroyed? Would the carpet get peed on? what if you kept Duck out of the crate for a little at a time, building up to an hour? Then you could leave him out for a bit, and someone else (dad or housekeeper) could put him back up, for example, after you left for school. Or if your yard is safe for Duck, leave him in the yard and then let the housekeeper put him up. I think you will see less hyper behavior if Duck can get some exercise!

I really feel for you, Egg, and your predicament. It will be hard to resolve this situation, and it would be hard to give your dog up. :cry: You are very brave to go against your society's way of keeping their pets. You are trying to treat your dog in a more positive, loving way than the people around you and that is wonderful. You are [b]super![/b] I wish I knew more 13 year olds with your level of maturity! Good luck, no matter what you decide to do. :)[/quote]
I feel just the same as Corgi come on Egg you have friends on here :) :)

[Dad4duchess]

Don't leave :(

[Guest Anonymous]

Wow where to start.... First off I think you will get some good advice here so do not leave.. I realize at times it may not be exactly what you want to hear but at times we need to hear those things.

* Grates on the bottom of the cage...Once Duck is in there for so long it is going to destroy and cause possible infections to her feet...Imagine standing in on grates approx. 16+ hrs... Not to mention when she reaches 80+ lbs.. and from what you have said I am assuming that this cage will not be big enough then..
*Yes your housekeeper could take her out but HAVE YOU ever taken out a full grown Lab that has been penned up all day long with no training? IT is more like they take YOU out... :lol: I bet it only last one time..Housekeeper carries herself in with scratches and bruises and Duck remains in cage all day long from then on...
*Sometimes it takes letting something go to show just how much you do love it.... Would it not make you happy to know that Duck was running all the time and not penned 16+ hrs a day? That she was trained and loved just as much as you loved her... Okay maybe not that much... I understand it is hard but sometimes things in life are hard especially when you live at home with parents, go to school for long hours, and are trying to raise a dog..You have to put life in perspective.
*Labs are wonderful dogs but they take LOTS of TIME and LOADS of patience. They are what you make of them and Duck at this point in time is a ball of energy and that is not going to change... She is going to continue to nip, bark, run, and chew until she gets HER time. (that is coming from someone who knows!!) I wish you the best and Duck the best.. A troll no...a teenager with a love for a dog and no time yes....
Look at Duck in that cage and tell me what you should do?!! :wink:

[Guest roo]

I have pm ed Egg.
No reply as of yet :(
I have tried to do a web search of breeders in taiwan
lots of really upsetting stuff here :( :cry:
Can we all start to look up and do searches into either kennels, breeders,
charities out there.
We have all got to try to help Egg and Duck here.
Any info that may be found could be useful.

Roo

[Rowie-the-Pooh]

Oh no Egg, don't leave, the place won't be the same without you! :o

I guess our posts sounded mean, but really, we were just trying to help! :o

I really think it was good that you helped Duck, and did everything you could to help her! Swear!

And by the way, [color=red]NO-ONE, AND I MEAN NO-ONE EVER THOUGHT YOU WERE A TROLL! [/color]

Please listen to me and come back! Please trust me and all of dogomania members as friends! :D

You ARE a little :angel: BTW! :D

Can't anyone e-mail her? Shes sure to check it? I'm sure if we ALL e-mail her she'll realize that we don't think of her as a troll, but as a friend!