Carolk9s Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 Quoting from the info limited guest, "The moment a breed gets popular AKC registration is sought by people within the breed. Just ask the JRT and Border Collie people about that if you want to see the fur fly :lol: AKC registration does absolutely nothing in terms of 'ruining' a breed - unethical breeders do that little job along with irresponsible owners." Not totally true, not ALL Border people embraced AKC recognition. The MAJORITY of folks who raised WORKING Border Collies wanted nothing to do with the AKC. Their dogs were bred to work not just to look a certain way and conform to a rigid standard. These folks fought against AKC recognition, the battle got bitter at times as it pitted Border breeders against other Border breeders. The working dog folks fear that AKC recognition and standards will ruin the working dog. Time will tell on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonmom Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 The AKC is just that, a club. It was started by people who wanted to get together and discuss their dogs. It started holding shows so that people with the same breed of dogs could get together and have their dogs criticed by an independent opinion. Now a days, the AKC has become so big, it has no idea who it is handing registrations out to. Heaven knows the sire and dame could be dead, but as long as a person has their registration papers, they can continue to keep listing puppies with the AKC. And people continue to buy them. Are these puppies "purebred"? Who knows. Dogs shows are controlled by professional handlers. Austrailian shepherd fought for years not to be recognized by the AKC. The only thing AKC recognition means to me is that there is more of an opportuninty to do neat stuff with your dogs (obedience, conformation, agility). But with all these new dog clubs springing up, because people are so upset with the AKC, there now are more opportunities to do stuff with your dog and other dog people that does not involve the AKC. Amen. I am absolutely in love with the Silken Windhound from Starcastles picture. I wonder if there might be a suggestion as to how I could see one in person??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starcastle Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 [quote I am absolutely in love with the Silken Windhound from Starcastles picture. I wonder if there might be a suggestion as to how I could see one in person???[/quote] The annual Silkenfest will be held in New Jersey Oct 5 and 6. It is the single largest gathering of Silkens of the year. I am not a specialist on American geography, I think you live in MInnesota, was that right? Guess the nearest breeders would be New Jersey, Washington or Iowa. You can always contact me privately if you want more information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starcastle Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 [quote] Maybe you shouldn't believe everthing you read on the net :lol: true and [/quote] I didn't just read it. I wrote it :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepseasnake Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 [i]in my best BIG BLACK guy voice with my fist to my mouth[/i] [b]OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO[/b] :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepseasnake Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 my last post was way funnier than your laughin by the way I have never understood why the AKC and other "clubs" even exsist as far as us non showing dog owners go. it seems to me that not quite so educated people read how good every dog is in these AKC type publications and then they buy one dont like it and it ends up dead and I have also read so many articles about how their "show" qualities and required "form" damages larger breeds like the Neo and destroys what breeders have worked so hard to maintain but I dont know I'm not a fan of showing or dog clubs *I do know there are working dog clubs and specific breed clubs that help breeds and care greatly for their dogs* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 [quote name='Carolk9s'] Not totally true, not ALL Border people embraced AKC recognition. The MAJORITY of folks who raised WORKING Border Collies wanted nothing to do with the AKC. Their dogs were bred to work not just to look a certain way and conform to a rigid standard. These folks fought against AKC recognition, the battle got bitter at times as it pitted Border breeders against other Border breeders. The working dog folks fear that AKC recognition and standards will ruin the working dog. Time will tell on that one.[/quote] Carol you are so right! We have working Border Collies that are registered with the ABCA, and they never will be registered with the AKC. The ABCA (American Border Collie Assoc) chose not to join the crusade to enter into the dark side with the AKC. I have heard this more than once from some of the ABCA registered Border Collie people; they changed over to the AKC because they can sell their puppies for lots more money! The show people are rapidly breeding all of the natural herding ability out of the Border Collie and they are taking on a different look than the working Border Collie. Soon, they will be like the AKC registered Australian Shepherd --- no desire to work and all they can do is just look pretty. Then there will be two separate breeds like the "Bench/Show" Kelpies and the working Kelpies. Two totally different dogs ---- The AKC show people may be able to get more for their puppies, just because of the AKC papers, but that doesn't mean the pups are quality. Herding trials are starting to pay lots more (uppers to $10,000) for the top winning herding dogs. I think that would be an incentive to stay with what the dogs were bred to do.....HERD LIVESTOCK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonmom Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Border Collie's were breed to Herd?? I thought they were bred to play fly-ball?? JUST KIDDING!!! I agree, though. The AKC says it is not doing that, but in my opinion, with all this striving for a perfect "show coat" and "perfect" body parts, it could be generations before any breeder even know they bred out the dogs natural working ability. Just try taking a dog that has been out in the field and had it's hair ripped out by the underbruch into a show ring! I think the Europeans have it right. A champion should also have to prove his ability to still do the job he was breed to do AND be sound of mind before he can be a champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 [quote name='Gordonmom'] JUST KIDDING!!! I agree, though. The AKC says it is not doing that, but in my opinion, with all this striving for a perfect "show coat" and "perfect" body parts, it could be generations before any breeder even know they bred out the dogs natural working ability. Just try taking a dog that has been out in the field and had it's hair ripped out by the underbruch into a show ring! I think the Europeans have it right. A champion should also have to prove his ability to still do the job he was breed to do AND be sound of mind before he can be a champion.[/quote] [color=red][i][b]"Border Collie's were breed to Herd?? I thought they were bred to play fly-ball??"[/b][/i][/color] :o You left out frizbee! Show breeders are breeding for one thing -- a specific "LOOK". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Flyball? Frisbee? You both forgot the PRIMARY purpose of border collies. AGILITY! Now too many border collies are saddled with people who are just too slow, after all who can keep up with a ZIP ZING dog? Without lots and lots of 'away from me' work, borders might decide to make up their own course as you huff and puff and try to catch up. But to see an excellently trained border collie flash around an agility course and nail every obstacle perfectly, well not only does it take your breath away, it also makes you want to pack up and just go home. :D I cannot even think that fast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 You shouldn't believe everything read in magazines either for that matter.. Although there might be a FEW breeds that were not mixed to begin with.. over time there usually is a mix done somewhere to improve something.. The AKC is not God, all of the trust lies in the breeders themselves.. But that is okay because Irish Setters were crossed with English Setters not to long ago but the AKC still recognizes them???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corgilady Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 [quote name='Carolk9s']Now too many border collies are saddled with people who are just too slow, after all who can keep up with a ZIP ZING dog? [/quote] [i][color=red]Aha. There's my problem! :wink: [/color][/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonmom Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 If they mixed an Irish with an English, I don't think the AKC was aware of it, LOL. Rumour has it that there is a certain amount of mixing between the setters so breeders can adjust certain traits in their dogs. Such as crossing a Gordon Setter with an English Setter to get a dog that is not so stocky, but still looks like a Gordon, because the black and tan is dominant. That is why too much white on a Gordon is a fault. But this is all done under the table. The AKC would never approve of this, nor would any conscientious breeder. But then you have the field English (llewellyn), and field Gordons, that are really small, and your field Irish, which is really big. You have to know that some kind of cross breeding went on in there, and they still are registered as pure bred dogs, even though they look different, and could be branched out as a breed of there own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Oh but the AKC [b]WAS[/b] aware of it and let them do it!! This was when the Irish was so very popular and everyone was breeding with no thoughts to anything.... Well the breed got so out of control they outcrossed to the English to get some good qualities back in to the Irish... I will find you all the stuff on it it is very interesting stuff!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonmom Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 I thought my opinion of the AKC couldn't get any lower, but I guess I was wrong. That is probably how all the setter people can justify it when they do a cross themselves. That is just awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowie-the-Pooh Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 :D TIGGERRESS! :D We made Guest buzz...I mean...go away! Yahoooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starcastle Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 [quote name='Rowie-the-Pooh']:D TIGGERRESS! :D We made Guest buzz...I mean...go away! Yahoooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote] Maybe Guest did not have much of credentials to show and decided to drop out :wink: It is very easy to have opinions, and repeat rumours. Anyone can do that. Guests most of all, they don't have the courage to come forward and tell what they think and stand for it and let their identity be known. I get jumped on quite a lot, for different reasons, but I certainly never try to hide behind anonymity to say what is on my mind. It may not suit everybody and they let me know it. So be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowie-the-Pooh Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 [quote]Maybe Guest did not have much of credentials to show and decided to drop out It is very easy to have opinions, and repeat rumours. Anyone can do that. Guests most of all, they don't have the courage to come forward and tell what they think and stand for it and let their identity be known. I get jumped on quite a lot, for different reasons, but I certainly never try to hide behind anonymity to say what is on my mind. It may not suit everybody and they let me know it. So be it.[/quote] YOU SAY IT GURL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 Nya Nya Nya Nya, Hey Hey Hey, Goodbye!! :lol: :wink: 8) :D (to guest) :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowie-the-Pooh Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 :D LOL :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepseasnake Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 cool pic, It looks like an animal that an elf would ride like a horse and fly around with at night, I can see it now, swoosh :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 Thats a beautiful photo if you look on the back of a dog calander there will be an address send the pic off to these address and see how you do - i can see it now January i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 Greeting cards and calendars! Such a nice picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starcastle Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 [quote name='"StarGaze"']"Guest", I have had LHWs for almost three years, and have yet to have a litter...I'm not aware of any LHW puppy mills. Please hurry with your reply about the locations and facts about all of these LHW puppy mills you speak of. Thanks again, Connie quote] Hi Connie, did you also notice that it was easy to talk about puppy mills but very hard to name any !!?? To tell the truth, if a puppy miller really had LHW, I am sure the LHW people as well as the Silken Windhound people would rush over there to salvage the dogs and also hope to get some good ones that may be incorporated in our breeding programs :-) In Silken Windhounds we have our own rescue program set up. So far we have had to rescue ONE Silken! Sussi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 Starcastle haven't seen you in a while!!! Hi! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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