Unsocialized dogs-anyone have experience?

[Seijun]

Does ANYONE here have experience with an unsocialized dog, preferably experience with more than one and with unsocialized dogs in a shelter setting? (By unsocialized I don't mean just a little shy, I'm talking a dog that might not want to come near you for weeks, even months). PLease speak up if you do!!

~Seij

[ObedienceGrrl]

I was part of a puppy mill raid of 150 plus dogs. And as you can imagine....none of the adults had ever had a human hand touch them in a positive way, if at all! It was when I worked at a Humane Society (no kill) up in the Cleveland area.

What do you have a question about?

[Seijun]

Yay :D Someone who might be able to help! Ok, my question is (for you or anyone else with experience with unsocialized dogs), in unsocialized dogs, do they ever exhibit one or more of the following behaviors:
-Frequent pacing in kennel
-Nervous and shy
-Head lowered, intense stare
-Makes wide circle around strangers before slowly coming in with head down; jumps away at slightest indication of danger
-Very cautious, watches everything

How common is it for an unsocialized dog to exhibit all or the majority of these behaviors?
If it isn't too much trouble for you, could you write up a short description of what behaviors in particular you are seeing in these puppy mill dogs, or perhaps describe in some detail the specific behaviors you have seen in other individual cases?
Are there any behaviors that are common in unsocialized dogs but which I did not mention in my short list?

~Seij

[ObedienceGrrl]

Hmmmm.....where to start...

First about the dogs.

They were mainly Maltese, Poodles, and Shih Tzu. There were two adult collies (female had 4 puppies, all of who had parvo, lost one) and three shelties.

Out of the 158 dogs (I believe that was the total number, but it was about 7 years ago) 16 females were pregnant.

Now, the older they were, the worse they were. We had them in cages together since they were so small. You'd walk into the cage and they would just all scatter in different directions and then regroup behind you. It took two people to get them out. Then, when you would pick them up, they'd scream blood murder. The very old ones would just freeze. Eye's wide open with the whites showing. Mouths open as well.

The younger ones would bite. Especially the males. You'd stick your hand down to grab them, and they would snap at you. After they got used to the environment (months! The shelter was going to court for the rightful ownership of them so we could adopt them out....couldn't do that until we had ownership of them.....the A$$HOLE said he wanted them back) then, they started to come out a little bit more.

They would come up to your hand, but again, scatter if you moved. And if you tried to pick them up, they no longer screamed, but still froze for a few minutes. The younger males would pace. The older dogs would just sit in a corner and watch you.

The collies weren't bad. They, for some reason, were sweet dogs. The big male was beautiful once he was cleaned up! We had to shave him so he looked like a smooth coat! But still, very handsome.

Then, there was this one poor sheltie. I'll always remember her. The look of utter fear in her eyes. One step into her kennel sent her running into the little shelter. She wouldn't touch her food if she saw a person standing there. We'd spend hours just sitting in her kennel or next to it. She never came out. When she did (when she thought no one was watching).....she just stood there and watched everything.....making sure no one came close to her. We got her into a foster home VERY quickly.

So for a happy ending to all this? We only lost about 8 dogs (just too sick to adopt out). And EVERY single dog, including all the unborn puppies, got homes. We had a HUGE party when the last one left us. It was wonderful......

[Rusty&Chip]

I have some experience with unsocialized unsocialized dogs. A few years ago I had a female Carolina Dog that we had gotten from a BYB. We had to give her back because we just weren't too happy with her (she was really dishonest) and the dog really wasn't safe to have around my little brothers. She exhibited all the traits you listed except the head lowered, intense stare. She also frequently barked and growled at nothing in particular. She was very afraid of leaving a my bedroom in our basement and you would have to drag her outside. She had terrible seperation anxiety when I left but would not let anyone else near her. The breeder wasn't much help when we asked her about behavioral problems...but I won't get into that. If you wanted more information, just tell me. I'm not quite sure I answered your question very well.

[courtnek]

my foxhound was unsocialized when I got her. she had literally no exposure to people except the huntmaster, even the staff that fed, watered and cleaned the kennels were not allowed to touch the dogs. she is very socialized with other animals, since this was a pack environment for the hunt.

she displayed all of your mentioned traits. now, over a year later, she still approaches new people with head down, and tail between legs, until she gets to know them, and trusting takes a long time. with me, she is a big happy goofball, but only with me....

[Lokipups]

Sigh, got a lot of experience, from puppy mills to abuse cases to just plain no socialization.
[quote]in unsocialized dogs, do they ever exhibit one or more of the following behaviors:
-Frequent pacing in kennel
-Nervous and shy
-Head lowered, intense stare
-Makes wide circle around strangers before slowly coming in with head down; jumps away at slightest indication of danger
-Very cautious, watches everything [/quote]
Almost every under/non socialized dog in my care over the years shows these signs. Missing that window of opportunity for socialization is almost irreparable, as the dog gets older, it gets worse, and there's no "cure". Management of the symptoms, yes, but that's about it.
I also notice in such dogs the tendency to be much more comfortable around other animals, almost always choosing the company of another dog over being with people. Panting heavily is a tendency as well at the first sign of stress,and so are enlarged pupils of the eye (which I've heard the theory is that a larger, darker pupil will make the animal more vulnerable looking, therefore more likely to be protected, but I take that with a grain of salt). And the only other symptom I can see with a severely undersocialized dog is more frequent sleeping during the day since stress interupts normal sleeping patterns and what rest they do get is not restorative since they are never quite comfortable enough to hit a really deep sleep.

The dog in my signature line is a classic case, we've actually videotaped her for study purposes, her symptoms are better, but she'll never be "adoptable" enough for JQ Public.
She doesn't have "baggage", she's got the full set of luggage, if ya get my drift :P .
Love her anyway :D .

[hicksstar]

We to have had a dog that displayed many of these traits.
[quote]-Frequent pacing in kennel
-Nervous and shy
-Head lowered, intense stare
-Makes wide circle around strangers before slowly coming in with head down; jumps away at slightest indication of danger
-Very cautious, watches everything [/quote]
He was a Kelpie/Collie/Husky mix and we are more than sure he had some dingo in there as well. He was socialised from when we got him (puppy) but he never seemed to get over this fear of everything. He was a very strange dog and learnt to trust some of us in the family more than others. My brother for eg could never get close to him as he was tall and loud so Prince never liked him and he tollerated the rest of us.
He would also go phsico (sp?) with large bangs (fireworks, gunshots etc) and before a storm even hit. He would break down doors, trash the house and once when we knew a storm was comming we tied him up to kepp him safe and he went frantic and dug the hugest hole and was digging and ripping at huge rose bushes tearing his tonge open with know relisation that he was even hurting himself. It was the most deverstating thing to see a dog totally out of control. Finally Prince broke through two fences and under the house to escape a storm that hadnt even hit and our rottie JAke followed. Jake was hit and killed by a car and princes fate is still unknown.
This was about seven years ago and it still haunts me. :-?

[imported_Kat]

Too much experience with unsocialised dogs! a true unsocialised dog will exhibit characteristics that are more like a wild dog. Avoidance behaviour is the classic symptom where the dog will have intense eye contact and avoid physical touch and if approached may yelp or scream. Retching or actual vomiting or defaecation also occur. Displacement behaviour is also common where if a dog is being watched from a distance he may suddenly start vigorously licking himself, especially at the genitals, and the dog may even turn to self mutilation in extreme cases. Zoochotic behaviour like continuous pacing in a cage or following an identical route (e.g around a sofa in a home) with additionally the animal ignoring human voice or seeming oblivious is also classic.

One dog which comes to mind was a Patterdale terrier called Ziko (we named him as he didn't even have a name...just a number) from a puppy mill bust. This little dog was nearly beyond help having never seen the light of day. He was born in the mill and was destined to die in the mill. He had no idea how to walk on a lead let alone be social. We kept him at our surgery in an elevated secure cage (crate) in the waiting room at reception and got people to speak to him and slip him food. Slowly he came around and with us letting him run free after surgery was over the break through came one day when a few of us were sitting eating our lunch and he came and lay down at my feet. That was the first time in a month since we had him that he came and asked for physical touch. From then the struggle was less uphill but none the less he still needed a lot of work but after nearly half a year being at our surgery and going to socialisation classes we finally rehomed him to a lovely middle aged couple. They kept up the classes with him and started entering obedience shows and to my knowledge he has won out of pre-beginners and beginners and is now working novice. :D

Its a lot of hard work but when you see a happy little dog who strains on his lead with a wagging tail to come and say hello to me at a show its well worth while :wink: