Guest Anonymous Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 I don't get the whole ALPHA thing. I'm the one who does obediance training, so I don't understand when ya say that she thinks the obediance trainer is Alpha, not me, cuz I AM the obediance trainer :lol: and Agility. We took Agility classes for almost 2 years, but the trainers were HORIBLE. They'd "Scruff" her whenever she'd act out. I figured they obviously know what their doing if they have this job in the first place, but then I noticed Hazel was getting WORSE, NOT better, so I looked into everything I could find about behavior and Aggression. Found out what they were doing, WAS making the problem worse, so I pulled her out of class ASAP. And she did get better after that. Mouse - I would be CRUSHED if I had to give up my pup, or worse, PTS. Rosebud/Cassie - I've beens studying about herding breeds since I got Hazel, and I know a part of it is from that. She DOES need a job to do, but it's hard to find her one around the house :-? I quite often get her to do little things, she follows me around the house everywhere, so I try to get her to help with my chores and such. It's cute, if I'm bringing my laundry downstairs, and I drop a sock or something, I can just get her to pick it up, and she'll bring it downstairs and put it in the basket! :lol: But those are just little things, she needs a real job. Cassie - It's okay :wink: Court - I'll PM you. Rowie - I'll PM you too :wink: Glad to hear Rowie's problems are clearin up too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Forgot to add some stuff... Okay, well yesterday I was all upset... and so mom goes "When's Jared getting back from Mexico?" and I'm like "Next weekend" and she goes "well that's not that long... I know that's why your moaping around here" and I was like "that's not it" and she was like "well then what is it?" UGH! I just wanted to start screaming!!! I was like "I don't want to get into it, you'll start yelling, and I'll start crying" and she was like "well what's it about?" and I was like 'My dog" and she was like "oh well I don't know why you'd think I'd start yelling, why did she do something bad again?" and it's like, okay... does she NOT remember what she said to me?! THEY ALWAYS DO THAT! They say I need to get rid of her, then the next day act like it's nothing! I'm going CRAZY! *twitch twitch* :changes: Oh, and I asked Dad yesterday if we were going to build Hazel a pen this spring, he mumbled something then was like "No"!! :evil: :drinking: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosebud Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 :-? Does anybody have any ideas of what kind of job Hazel could do. I was thinking maybe Flyball but don't really know alot about it or if it's something that can be done at home. :angel: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 She does Agility. We have an A-Frame, Teeter, Tunnel, and i can make jumps out of lawn chairs and broom sticks until we get propper ones. We're building the rest of the equipment this summer... but Agility isn't really a JOB. It's only something she can do if I have the time to go out there and do, which would be only maybe twice a week or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseatthebusstop Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 [quote]Mouse - I would be CRUSHED if I had to give up my pup, or worse, PTS. [/quote] I KNOW. THAT IS WHY I WOULD NOT WANT IT TO HAPPEN. :) YOU CAN DO IT :) YOU CAN TRAIN HER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Thanks Mouse... I'll try really hard not to give up... on step at a time right? hehe *laughs uncomfrotably* So if I'm not on here much, you guys will know why... by the way... does anyone know what happend to Pik and DP? :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellieangel Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Hazel-n-m have faith in yourself ! You have come this far ! you MUST be firm with her though even when you feel like you can't be bothered !! (we all do that !) NEVER let her get away with even the little naughty things I think you have to show her that you are the one in control what you say goes-no compromise! It's hard I know my husband is the worlds worst for being soft on my 2 and they sure know it !!! Don't beat yourself up about it though you must believe that you can do it YOU CAN !! My sister was only 16 when she got her siberian husky and she's quite capable of training him and at 5 months he is already training at competition obedience level so the age issue is B******S !! Keep at it you'll get there xxxxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I know Age is nothing... but... if you knew what I feel like right now, you'd understand... Not just Hazel, other things too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellieangel Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Feel free to mail me I'm all ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 You mind if I add you to MSN? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malamum Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 It's not that Hazel is seeing someone else (another human, other than you) as alpha) she is considering herself alpha and this may link into some of her aggression problems. She sees it as her job to warn off strangers and protect you when she needs to learn it is the other way round. You need to be firm but fair - no need to hurt her or scruff her but you do need to be firm. A "sin bin" or "time out" area is a good idea. When she misbehaves she goes straight to the sin bin (you can't ask her to go there of her own accord, you need to take her) and don't let her out no matter how much she carries on. Wait 10-15 minutes (or till she is calm) and then let her out but don't fuss over her, ignore her for another 10 minutes. Again this is showing her that you are in total control and that you control her environment not her. I had biting/nipping issues with Indy when he was about 3/4 months old. He was only playing and wanting attention but as he was so big it really hurt, I had bruises and scratches on my arms and holes in the legs of all my pants. The time out really worked because it is punishing them in a non-physical way - you are depriving them of what they really want - your attention. A kennel/run really is a very good idea. Maybe tell your parents that's what you want for your birthday so they will take you seriously. Try not to get too disheartened. There is no magical answer and there is not any one thing to do that will fix all the issues, it is a combination of everything everyone has suggested and it will take time. Again we are all here for you and of course Hazel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellieangel Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Yes MSN ok xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Cassie Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I think Rosebud has a wonderful idea about flyball...I don't know much about flyball either...but it wouldnt hurt to check it out...you could even set up little courses in your back yard and run Hazel through agility courses of your own...Border Collies are very smart dogs...the more you can do to stimulate the dogs mind..the less destructive your dog will be. I know of a man with a sheep ranch he has Great Pyreness & Border Collies...his dogs are working dogs...I will try to get around to asking him what he suggests...I do remember once when I was up there that when he was not working his Border Collies he had them tied in a stall...I thought it was kinda cruel...but he said if the dogs could see the sheep they would kill them selves trying to herd all day. In my opinion, I don't think you are working with a Alpha problem...your dog was breed for a specific purpose...and unlike other breeds which may have alot of their breed purpose bred out of them for show...border collies have not suffered this diasater...they are kept true to the working standard. The more you try to dominant your dog and punish your dog for things that it was bred to do (eye-stalk,chase etc) the worse it will be...and the more confused your dog will be...establish new things to occupy your dogs mind...to fulfill your dogs set motor pattern. [b]The dog gets such pleasure out of performing its motor patten that it keeps looking for places to display it. The animal will search for the releaser of a motor pattern because it gets rewarded so luxuriously for performing.[/b] I have never owned a Border Collie (or a herding breed)..but I beleive their is some one on this board who owns and works Kelpie's..I hope she will see this post and reply to this....I just find that when you punish a dog for some thing that is internally set and bred into him/her...your fighting a lost cause....border Collies are smart, they do very well in obedience...but just because your dog does well in obedience does not mean that your are going to be able to train the dog to not do what it is meant to do. I have a Rottweiler with a very high drive to stalk & chase (they were orginally bred to drive cattle) she does very well in obedience etc...she will chase a ball til the cows come home :D little humer! but, I also realize that if some thing runs....she is going to chase them, and grab them....I can't punish her for some thing that is her set motor pattern...but, I do realize she is capable of this and I work around it...she will do the same with our cats if they come up to her and purr around her feet she licks them...but once they run...different story! Please seek the advice of some one who has border collies...as Rosebud advised their are all kinds of people who have sites on the internet who breed Border Collies...perhaps they can give you advice...your not dealing with a behavior "problem" you are dealing with a set behavior for the breed you have...and once you learn to work with it you will find a big difference...think of the fun you could have doing competitive agility with your dog! Hazel would probably go very far... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I agree that Hazel needs some job to do. (Flyball wouldn't be any better then Agility, I would have less time for Agility that means, which is what Hazel and I both really love). She can't do competition Agility though, a letter has gone out to all the BC (and some Canadian) Agility Associations because Hazel is Aggressive. She's not ALLOWED to compete :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 HNM, I have a suggestion. I read your PM and I know your upset, but try this at least. It's helped me with every dog I have ever owned!! There is a book you can buy, by a behaviorist named John Fisher, called "Why Does My Dog...."...and it explains dog behaviour from A-Z, with good examples and training tips. A lot of what I know came from this book, and it has never steered me wrong. And it's a FUN book to read. The man has an excellent sense of humor, and the reading is light and easy to follow. Believe me, it would be a fun book to read even if you didnt have a dog, because of his writing style. Give it a shot. It may help you with Hazel, and it will teach you alot, trust me. XXX :D Katy If you cant get it for some reason, let me know and I'll get a copy and send it to you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellieangel Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 I'll look that one up courtnek ! I'm such a bookworm-any more suggestions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Thanks Court! I'll try to look for it next time we go to Prince George (closest COLES is 2 hours away... that's sad! LOL :o ) I'll add it to THE LIST. Which is gettin really long! I better get myself to COLES soon!! :o It may even be at SitStay, they have tones of great books there... so I'll look, I've only ever ordered one book off there though... and it had to deal with BARF, my mom got it for me... so if it may help me, I'm sure she'd be willing to help me order it! :) hopefully anyway... :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Cassie Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 I was watching a show on TV called [b]Good Dog![/b] it is a Canadian show. The behaviorist on the show will go to your house to help you with "your" Dog. Perhaps you could contact the show and see if he will come out and help. I know he did one show in Nova Scotia which he would have had to travel to (I believe he resides in Ontario)...just a little suggestion...you & your dog also get to be stars for a day! It's usually on Sunday mornings...check out your TV guide and see if you get it in your area...it might be worth checking out. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 you can order it from Amazon.com at the following link [url]http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/103-5475546-8274207[/url] It's 12.00 for new and 9.00 for used, in paperback form. Good Luck!! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 I have an account there (I'm the worst of bookworms too) and if you want I can order it and have it shipped to you. You can PM me your address if you want to do that. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 I've watched Good Dog, that's the one with Stanely Coren (sp?) isn't it? I have a couple of his books... he's really good... Thanks Court, but I'd feel weird about paying you back cuz I'm the WORST payer backer (those ARE words! :lol: )!! I owe SO many people!! It's not even funny! :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Cassie Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 I think that is the mans name on GOOD DOG! :o Hes the guy who has the Nova Scotia Duck Toller & the Flat Coated Retreiver...next time you watch the show.. I think :roll: at the end of the program they give instructions on how to reach him. That way you can have some one see exactly what your dog is doing in the home place....he seems to be very good and he seems to [b]direct[/b] the dog instead of [b]make[/b] the dog do things...that is good training..make your baby wanna do what you want...and that way the dog will enjoy pleasing you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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