Crested Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 I've been thinking about this long and hard and I can't get any wiser with this. I'm getting a bitch this spring and I know I will get it tougher with two dogs of diffirent sex. But this is the thing... I don't know if I want to... nuture (is that what it's called?) Ben. It seems like it's against nature in some way. I've even heard that you get incresed chanse of cancer if you do nuture your dog and that's the last thing I want. Is it possible to have a male and a feemale under the same roof at the same time? What should I do? Ben will be about 2 years old when the girl comes. I really need some help and advice. I know it might be best to do the operation on Ben, but I still... I still don't really want to do it. Help me, please! /Crest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicat613 Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Both should be altered. It has amazing health and behavioral benefits. You REDUCE cancer risks by neutering. You also recuce any aggression, territorialness, wanting to go to other girls in heat, marking, mounting, etc. And with girls you don't have to deal with the messy heats, attracting other dogs, mood swings, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crested Posted February 27, 2003 Author Share Posted February 27, 2003 The girl will not be alterd, because the goal for me is to become a breeder and for that I need a girl. So it has been a tough and hard search and I think I've finally found a breeder that I can buy a girl from. I've carefully gone through what qualities I want the girl to have and what qualities I want from her pedigree and family. I have very high standards so it has been hard finding the perfect puppy. My first thought was to use Ben allso in breeding, because he has a fantastic mouth (one of my many goals for the puppies, because Chinese Cresteds are known of having incomplete teeth. Some don't have any premolars at all), but because Ben has allergies (or we don't know exacly WHAT it is. It might be just dry air or something) it seems that fixing him would be the best alternative. But the fact is that I don't want to harm him and I don't want to fix him and regret it later. I really don't know if it is the best alternative. But he is a dog that marks everything and everywhere. If there is a girl in heat somewhere in the neighbourghood, he goes absolutely crazy; he screams to get outside and can be a week without a tinyest piece of food. He tries to mount even my dad and his brothers (never me, my mom or anyone else, just them!). He allso is very territorial. He barks at people walking on the street, just to show to them that this is HIS territory and no one elses! He isn't vicious or aggressive (it even is in the breed standard: "Never vicious"). But still... It seems like going against the nature. Could someone tell me their experiences, good and bad. I really want to know about the health factors and things like that. I've heard even that some dogs that have been the kindest dogs alive have become very aggressive and vicious after getting fixed. So I really need to know what would be the best thing for both Ben and the girl AND ME! Please tell me! /Crest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Crested... neutering is the "modern natural" for many dog owners and I really do think Ben should be neutered if you don't plan to use him as a stud. :) Far better to neuter now than have Ben get your new girl, or some other girl, pregnant and mess up your breeding program. It will probably stop him from marking so much and prevent against some cancers that can affect his reproductive organs. I don't know if it will stop him going nuts when a girl nearby is in heat, and if you think it's bad now wait until you DO get your girl and she goes into heat... mate, I wouldn't want to be living in your house at that time of the month! :lol: Neutering will also stop him from mounting so often, and may stop him from being so territorial, though I'm not an expert and I don't know the breed standard so I wouldn't know for sure. My dog is neutered, he was when we got him at 6mths. He is lovely. Hyperactive and crazy, but the most beautifully natured dog in the universe :roll: :wink: (no I'm not biased!!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowie-the-Pooh Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Crested :) Dogomania has ALOT of dog experts, and if I where you I would take thier advice! :D :wink: Neutring and spaying is one of the most humane things humans have ever done for animals! The dog doesn't feel any pain! None at all! :wink: It will not even notice that somethings missing! :wink: Believe me it is NOT in any way against nature! :D With nuetring Ben, you will get all these advantages: -He will stop lookin for females in heat. -He will not be aggressive or territorial. -Cancer risk will REDUCE not INCREASE! -And much much more! Believe me it does more good than harm! Actually, I can't find any harm that nuetring can do. Except it can make a Cocker Spanials coat corse and fluffy, and other silky haired dogs...but since Ben doesn't have any hair that's not an issue :wink: [color=red]PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE NUETER HIM!!! WE DON'T NEEDANY MORE HOMELESS ANIMALS IN THIS WORLD!![/color] Keep us updated! :D Oh, and you also mentioned that Ben had allergies? I don't think that it would be good to breed him :wink: But his mouth sounds great!! :D Rowie-the-Pooh :angel: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 [quote name='K'] To put it in perspective, [color=red]10,000 babies are born in the United States every day, and 70,000 puppies and kittens are born. [/color]Only one out of five of these find their way into a responsible home. Approximately 14 million dogs, cats and rabbits end up in shelters every year just in this country alone. Only one in four makes it out alive. Clearly, you can save lives by neutering your pet. [/quote] :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crested Posted February 28, 2003 Author Share Posted February 28, 2003 I'm beeing torn appart. Some people I've asked advice from have said that I should ABSOLUTELY NOT neuter Ben! They say it's the absolutely WORST thing I could do. But still... I hate seeing him when he screams to get outside because a girl in heat has gone by our house. It isn't very nice either when he tries to hump against my dad's feet and hands. NEVER EVER MINE OR MY MOTHERS!! I think that is because dad is a guy who can never say no to Ben. Ben thinks that I'm the boss in the house and does exacly what I want when I want it. Mother is boss number 2, but he thinks I'm a bit above mom. Then he sees that HE is boss number 3 in our house and that dad is the one that has no say in our house. This has been going on since Ben was about 6 months old. I've tried to stop that, but I know that dad is the only one that can show that he is the boss over Ben. I've tried to make dad understad it, but YA THINK HE DOES?! :O I'm more afraid that Ben's personality will change. He's such a fantastic dog, the way he is, and I don't want to do ANYTHING to harm him. K: Thanks for the text. It made me really think. My mom is against castration. Dad doesn't really know what castration even means. (:O) In a way I would want to use Ben in my breeding programme someday, but.. it's the allergies that puzzle me the moast and the fact that he is scared of other dogs and humans, because I didn't understand how important it is to sozialace a dog when he is a pup. I still need advice. What would YOU do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseatthebusstop Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 [quote]I'm more afraid that Ben's personality will change. He's such a fantastic dog, the way he is, and I don't want to do ANYTHING to harm him[/quote] IF HIS PERSONALITY CHANGES IT WILL BE FOR THE BETTER [quote]In a way I would want to use Ben in my breeding programme someday, but.. it's the allergies that puzzle me the moast and the fact that he is scared of other dogs and humans, because I didn't understand how important it is to sozialace a dog[/quote] NEVER BREED WITH A DOG WITH ALLERGIES-BREED ONLY TO IMPROVE THE BREED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pets4ever Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 I would DEFINITELY neuter him. I recently neutered my pup and he is as sweet as ever and did not seem bothered by the fact that he just had undergone surgery. He didn't want to lick or chew himself at all. Neutering is a lot easier for the dog (and your pocketbook) than spaying, but even the females heal amazingly fast. As far as breeding him in the future, I know that we all love our dogs and all think "...wouldn't it be neat to have a baby of his/hers, the have such an irreplaceable personality, or ..fill in the blank...." But the fact is...we should only breed the 'perfect' example of the breed. ANY imperfection really shouldn't be perpetuated. Also, are you prepared to follow the show circuit and pay for handlers etc. to promote him? If not, maybe nobody will breed to him except you and the hassle of having a sexually obsessed male won't be worth it. People want to breed their dog to a titled dog, and should if their female is a good one. I know you will be happier and he will be happier if he is neutered. He won't even know what happened but will have a happy and stress-free life and will get to be more active and do stuff with you because you won't have to worry about his behavior or that he'll try to take off after some females scent! A neutered male is a happy male! :D (And they never die from testicular cancer.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crested Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 It's just that... I don't want to make a decition and then regret it later. I don't want to wake up one morning and say: "Oh, I wish I wouldn't have neuterd him." I know it's just a small operation, but that operation will change his life wether he knows it or not. And that means that this decition will change his life. If something does go wrong, then I'm responsible and I KNOW I will blame myself the rest of my life! I still want the girl. I have been thinking of several diffirent things like... 1. Buying a boy instead and then "renting" a girl and makeing pups with her. 2. Keeping the girl locked up in my room and not letting Ben in during the heat no matter how much he screams and yells behind the door. There are atleast a dosind more, but I'll end it there. None of them seem reasonable or smart. But somehow neither does neutering. I really wish someone could take this decition makeing off my shoulders and take the blame and responsibility if something bad ever does happen. But I guess this is what life is like. /Crest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicat613 Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Unless you show your dogs and have already been working with a mentor, you are not ready to breed. You don't even know if this boy is worth breeding yet so why get so distraught? First things first! You are getting way ahead of yourself. "I still want the girl. I have been thinking of several diffirent things like... 1. Buying a boy instead and then "renting" a girl and makeing pups with her. 2. Keeping the girl locked up in my room and not letting Ben in during the heat no matter how much he screams and yells behind the door. " You cannot be a breeder while only owning the sire. The breeder and the litter owner is the bitch owner. No reputable person would breed with your dogs until they have completed their championships and then only if upon evaluation it is a good match. On your second idea, that is only cruel and frustrating to your dog. Generally breeders with intact of both sexes will have local breeder friends take the males while the bitch is in heat. To get started in breeding, you need to find an INCREDIBLE mentor, the more the better. I have a ton of great links to help you if you would like, just PM me and I'll get them to you (it's a long list so I don't want to make this message so long). Please understand that despite your best intentions, you are going about this wrong and will only be a BYB who doesn't know it if you don't calm down and take the time to do this right. There are plenty of dogs out there - once you can really say you are improving the breed then breeding might be something to do. But right now you should not even be worrying about these details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowie-the-Pooh Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Oh Crested!! You don's seem to understand... Did you read K's post?? READ IT AGAIN!! :wink: Did you see the part where it said [b]70,000[/b] pets are born EVERYDAY and only ONE OUT OF FIVE FIND A GOOD HOME?? Please! I'm asking you from the bottom of my heart!! The people who say you should not neuter him ARE WRONG!! Who said that? Can you find more responsible, great, dog experts than the ones found here?:wink: BELIEVE ME!! My cuz has this dog that used to be REALLY REALLY REALLY overy dominant!! He used to dig, escape to find a female in heat, bark, hump, and BITE!! i told her to neuter him.....and guess what happened? NOW he is one of the most behaved dog I have ever seen! He has calmed down ALOT!! He stopped digging, humping, barking, escaping and being overly dominant!! :o And after a bit of training to put him in the rite direction, HE BECAME EXCELLENT!! :D:D:D Now, I'm not saying Neutering will TRAIN your dog :wink: It will iliminate all those horrible behaviour problems commonly seen in UNneutred dogs!! [color=red] PLEASE!! I mean we already have enough homeless animals in this world!! :cry:[/color] [b]PLEASE before you decide NOT to neuter him, go to the local shelter and look into the eyes of those poor cats, dogs, puppies and kittens, and the occasional rabbit..and let them speak to you with thier pain filled eyes...[/b] Well, it up to you, he's YOUR dog:wink: But please take our advice!! [b]Specially about going to the pound....[/b] Rowie-the-Pooh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I read this, then read something else....then came back. This was a discussion from a while back, too. I still stand by what I said then. It made you mad then and it will make you mad now. Ben has allergies. He is miserable. He will pass this on to his pups. The pups will be miserable.......but by golly they will have GOOD TEETH! Which is ALL you care about and will be breeding for. Crested you have your mind made up, as you did a while ago. Why do you keep asking for our opinion? You keep saying it's not natural to neuter a dog (him). If nature had anything to do with it....Ben would not survive in nature. That would take care of a lot of things.....puppies with allergies that will be miserable, substandard offspring, genetic defects....etc... I have a dog with allergies. She is miserable, absolutely miserable. She has to have medication and shots all the time. They have stopped working. She scratches until she's exhausted and her skin is bleeding. It's not dry skin, it's allergies. Oh I could breed her because she has good teeth........see how ridiculous that sounds. No, we have chosen to try some other medications. If these fail, we have no choice but to put her to sleep. Her quality of life is diminishing. She is miserable, stops eating, stops being happy. She just wants to stop. I could beat the crap out of the breeder ---- yes, her sire has allergies!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crested Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 Hobbit: I'm not mad... It's just that... (Wow, it's hard to explain!) I KNOW that it wouldn't be a good idea to use Ben in breeding. I KNOW that in a way it would be best to neuter him. I KNOW that if I would use him as a sire to puppies that the puppies would probabely get the allergies too. But there is one thing I don't know... And I think that is the biggest part why I'm still pending between yes and no. And that is; I don't know 100% that he is allergic. What if it's just dry skin, or dry air... What if he has been rolling on the carpets (as usual) and small hairs have tickled him and THAT is why he's scratching? There are a million "What if's" and that is a big part why I am not sure if it's the best thing for him. If he isn't allergic. If it is just (let's say) dry skin. Then I would be missing out on a grait dog! The other part that makes it even more difficult is the fact that I think my love for Ben makes me in some way blind to his faults. I try and try to be honist to myself and I really TRY to find faults in him that would tell me: "Well, there is no way for you to use him as a sire to puppies, EVER!". But I haven't found anything yet. The part that is mabye the biggest reason for me to neuture him (besides the coming girl) is the fact that he loves to run away. Especially at summertime. I'm terrified that he will be run over by a car (Once it came pretty close and I thank God the driver saw him in time and hit the brakes. That day my heart jumped up in my throat, because at that split second I really thought I'd loose him. He ran straight between the front and back wheel and I'm amazed that the driver even saw him! That day he had angels watching over him!). Good teeth is not everything I care about in breeding, but because Chinese Cresteds are known to have "bad teeth" (as I have said before some don't even have a single premolar) and Ben has good teeth, that would mabye give better teeth to puppies. Alicat: I know that thoose thoughts are not the best in the world... It's one thing what the dog will be like let's say a month after the operation, but how will he be like just after? I bet the stiches will hurt, he will be tired all the time and feel just misurable. I have a friend who spayed her cat (the cat is a girl and I know it's a much bigger operation for a girl then for a dog) and she said that for three long days she could mabye sleep for two hours each day, because the cat was in such pain that every time she tried to turn around to get a more comfortable possition she would scream! My friend said that she really doubts if it was the best thing for the cat. A week later she was still in pain, but she could sleep more peacefully so she would get a bit more sleep herself, but not much. Even though it's a bigger thing for a girl then it is for a boy, it doesn't take it away that it IS a surgical operatin and that it WILL hurt! And I don't want to cause unnecceccary pain for Ben! I hope you understand that. I'm not just thinking about makeing puppies and breeding, but of him! It's a whole diffirent story how a dog will be like a month or a year afterwards. How will he be like just after wakeing up from anastecia?? How will the first week go? Every human, dog, cat, horse etc. is diffirent. What works good for one doesn't necceccary mean that it will work as good for another. THAT is what scares me!! /Crest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Crested, I totally understand your fears. The absolutely hardest thing I ever done in my life is to have Hobbit neutered. Not only because he is out of an excellent cattle working bloodline and is becoming a good working dog himself --- because he is the LAST of that bloodline. His dam is old and the sire has died. If something were to happen to his brother and sister, that particular bloodline would be lost forever........forever......it would be gone. Hobbit had (it's been corrected) a genetic defect that may or maynot have been passed to his progeny. I didn't want to take that chance and have a defect in my line. So, very, very reluctantly --- I had him neutered. Everytime I work him and everytime he excels at something......I play the "what if" game. I put his health and well being above all else. Have Ben tested and go from there. A female and male under the same roof --- she WILL get bred. No matter how careful you are and how many precautions you take --- IT WILL HAPPEN. The only way to ensure a dog doesn't runaway or go on adventures is to have a safe--very safe-- enclosure or keep him continually on a leash, with you on the other end. Dogs have a mind of their own. Some stay home and some don't > neutered or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooeydog Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 If everything concerning dogs was "natural", then they wouldn't be here. There wouldn't be "breeds", and dogs wouldn't have the traits they do (which were probably considred "deformities" or genetic anomalies before people decided to breed [b]for[/b] them. So you wouldn't even [b]have[/b] Ben (at least not in the same physical form) if it were not for the fact that people have domesticated dogs, taken away their natural traits, and to some extent, instincts, and done what they thought was best. So the argument that neutering is not natural is flawed, as there are many other "un-natural" things that humans do to dogs every day... a dog living in a wooden house, a dog being walked on a leash, a dog not breeding every other dog (of the opposite sex) it sees, a dog not attacking any other animal/person it sees as prey... all the things above are things that dogs "naturally" don't do, but that [b]responsible[/b] and in some cases even irresponsible owners have them do. Sure, there is a risk involved in neutering a dog. There's also a risk involved with walking a dog, breeding a dog, letting a dog live in your house, letting a dog outside, even feeding a dog. There may be some pain involved post surgery... but it's certainly not comparable to the amount of pain he'll be enduring if he gets hit by a car when he bolts out the door in seach of a female in heat. He would also be in a bit of pain if he ripped off a toenail (or toe) trying to dig through the door to get to your bit*h. He can also get pain medication after he is altered, so his pain would actually be minimal. He'll also have to endure a lot of pain if he gets prostate or testicular cancer, two common forms of cancer in unaltered male dogs. It's not normal for an animal to be "screaming" after being altered (especially not for an entire week), and I hope your friend took her cat to the vet to make sure there wasn't something else wrong with it. You don't know 100% that Ben's allergies are caused by genetics, you also don't know 100% that they [b]aren't[/b]. That alone is enough to make a [b]responsible[/b] dog breeder alter their dog, as they will not take the chance of their dogs' offspring having to endure the same health problem. You've also said in other posts that he is shy/nervous... not exactly a temperment you want to chance passing on to his pups. There is no guarantee that his pups would inherit the genes he has for "good" teeth, so why risk the mental/physical health of the possible pups just for a "maybe"??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowlabsrule Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Five Good Reasons Why You Should Spay or Neuter Your Pet 1) Spaying or neutering increases your pet's chances for a longer, healthier life. Spaying your pet before her first estrous cycle (that is, before she reaches sexual maturity) greatly reduces her chances of developing breast cancer and completely eliminates the threat of uterine and ovarian cancer and uterine infection, which are common occurrences in unaltered females. Neutering your male dog or cat prevents testicular tumors and may prevent prostate problems. Neutering also decreases the possibility of perianal tumors and hernias, which are commonly observed in older, unaltered dogs. Because neutered cats are less likely to roam, the threat of abscesses caused by bites and diseases transmitted by fighting are greatly reduced. 2) An altered dog or cat is a better pet for your family. Males neutered early in life are less aggressive toward other males and are not distracted by females in heat. Therefore, a neutered male will be less tempted to leave your property and cross that dangerous highway searching for a mate. Neutered males also are less likely to mark every one of your (or your neighbor's) expensive shrubs with his urine as well as inside the house. Spaying your female pet eliminates the problem of stray males camping in your yard and decreases her desire to roam and breed. 3) No family wants to cope with an unwanted pregnancy. Spaying prevents your pet from giving birth to unwanted puppies or kittens. 4) Spaying results in a cleaner female dog and home. Because female dogs pass bloody fluid for about ten days, twice a year, as a part of their estrous cycle, constant care must be taken to avoid carpet stains in homes with such animals. Spaying your dog eliminates this problem. 5) You are helping to alleviate the dog and cat overpopulation problem. Each year, millions of unwanted dogs and cats are euthanized (killed) at shelters across the country. Although pet behavioral problems are the main reasons animals are given to shelters, many orphans are the result of accidental breeding by free-roaming, unaltered pets. The more pets spayed or neutered, the fewer dogs and cats will have to be destroyed. Delaware Humane Association does not euthanized; however, hundreds of dogs and cats are turned away each year because there is simply not enough room at the shelter to accommodate them. Six Common Excuses for Not Spaying or Neutering Pets 1) My pet will get fat and lazy. Neutering or spaying may diminish your pet's overall activity level, natural tendency to wander, and hormonal balances, which may influence appetite. Pets that become fat and lazy after being altered usually are overfed and do not get enough exercise. 2) We want another pet just like Rover and Fluffy. Breeding two purebred animals rarely results in offspring that are exactly like one of the parents. With mixed breeds, it is virtually impossible to have offspring that are exactly like one of the parents. 3) My pet's personality will change. Any change will be for the better. After being altered, your pet will be less aggressive toward other dogs or cats, have a better personality, and will be less likely to wander. Spraying (urine marking), which is often done by dogs and cats to mark their territory, diminishes or ceases after pets are altered. 4) We can sell puppies or kittens and make money. Even well-known breeders are fortunate if they break even on raising purebred litters. The cost of raising such a litter -- which includes stud fees, vaccinations and other health care costs, and feeding a quality food -- consumes most of the "profit." Well-known breeders raise breeds that they like. These breeders also try to improve the standard of the breeds they raise. 5) My children should witness our pet giving birth. Pets often have their litters in the middle of the night or in a place of their own choosing. Because pets need privacy when giving birth, any unnecessary intrusion can cause the mother to become seriously upset. These intrusions can result in an unwillingness to care for the offspring or in injury to the owners or to the pet. 6) I am concerned about my pet undergoing anesthesia. Placing a pet under anesthesia is a very common concern of owners. Although there is always a slight risk involved, the anesthetics currently used by veterinarians are very safe. Many veterinarians use equipment that monitors heart and respiratory rates during surgery to ensure that their patients are doing well under anesthesia. Thus, the medical benefits of having your pet spayed or neutered far outweigh the slight risk involved with undergoing anesthesia. Consult your veterinarian if your are concerned about this aspect of the procedure. Spay and Neuter Your Pets! Good for You, Your Pet, and the Community Prevent A Litter - It's Good for You Spayed and neutered pets are better, more affectionate, companions. Neutered cats are less likely to spray and mark territory. Spaying a female dog or cat eliminates its heat cycle, which can last twenty-one days, twice a year, in dogs, and anywhere from three to fifteen days, three or more times a year, in cats. Females in heat often cry incessantly, show nervous behavior, and attract unwanted male animals. Spayed and neutered pets are less likely to bite. Unaltered animals often exhibit more behavior and temperament problems than those that have been spayed or neutered. Prevent a Litter - It's Good for Your Pet Spayed and neutered dogs and cats live longer, healthier lives. Spaying female dogs and cats eliminates the possibility of uterine or ovarian cancer and greatly reduces the incidence of breast cancer. Neutering male dogs and cats reduces the incidence of prostate cancer. Neutered animals are less likely to roam and fight. Prevent A Litter - It's Good for the Community Communities spend millions of dollars to control and eliminate unwanted animals. Irresponsible breeding contributes to the problem of dog bites and attacks. Animal shelters are overburdened with surplus animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicat613 Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 This is getting very hard for me to remain polite. You [b]KNOW[/b] what the right thing to do is. If you do not neuter him, and if you breed him EVER you will be nothing more than a [u]BACKYARD BREEDER[/u] contributing to the millions of unwanted pets in the world as well as [b]harming the breed[/b] by continuing less than perfect genetics. If you breed this female, who you have not purchased correctly for breeding purposes, to ANY male, you will be a BACKYARD BREEDER. How can you love animals and even consider doing these awful things that will only HARM the ENTIRE PET POPULATION?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pets4ever Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Crested, At the risk of making you mad...lets get down to the bottom line. Didn't you get your dog to be a companion to you in the first place? You didn't get him to go into the business or hobby of breeding! For him to be a true companion, free him from endless frustration and sexual obsession by neutering him and keep your fantasies out of the deal. Dog breeding is not a money making enterprise generally. It costs lots of money to show, promote and title the males; plus you need to own, promote and and title the females too. Obviously the dogs need to be show quality. It is bad breeding to perpetuate a dog with severe allergies and perhaps other flaws just because he's your favorite dog. Think about his life of all these females out of reach. If he did breed one (and it would probably only be one - yours) it would only make it worse for him. He will be so happy and relaxed and glad to be able to accompany you places and have people happy with him instead of exasperated and frustrated. He can feel what people feel towards him. He doesn't know why he acts the way he does, it's instinct. He is not happy about it. Who enjoys being frustrated ALL THE TIME? Neuter him and enjoy your dog. :fadein: Do the right thing and neuter your pet. Of course this is only my opinion (and that of everyone else here by the sound of it. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pets4ever Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Oh, I just wanted to add since I just noticed that you seem extra worried about post-op pain and suffering. According to my vet office, most males act as though nothing happened! I got one of those big collars at the vet just in case and although they said I probably wouldn't need it, I got it anyway. Well, I just returned it to the vet. Theo didn't pay any attention to his stitches. Nobody would have known that he just had been fixed if I didn't say. Plus the stitches didn't need removal since they were the kind that dissolves away. Even if there was some pain in your dogs case, it would be very temporary and he wouldn't remember it. Like the other poster said (can't remember who, sorry) it's much less pain than cancer, being hit by a car, or ripping a nail digging out. They use a very fast anesthesia which goes away quick as well. My dog wasn't groggy or walking funny or anything. Then think about the female dogs owner who catches them together and tries to separate them or just plain old kicks your dog or throws rocks at him or whatever. There are all kinds out there! Even females should heal in just a few days. They sleep a lot the first day but then are pretty good from then on. I think your friends cat had some sort of infection. Her cat's behavior is not typical or normal. Males have it easy in the "gettin fixed" department. :) Don't worry about that aspect of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crested Posted March 5, 2003 Author Share Posted March 5, 2003 [b]alicat:[/b] It's [b]not[/b] that simple! First of all, I have been VERY strict with buying this puppy. I've been searching and looking at several diffirent breeders, their upcoming litters and breeding standards and I must say, I have turned several down instantly. The biggest reason for that is hairy hairlesses! They might be wonderfull breeders with fantastic dogs, but the one thing that scares me away is hairy hairlesses. No hairless dog is supposed to be [b]shaved[/b] so that it will be hairless, is it? If you look at Peruvian Inca Orchids, Mexican Hairless Dogs (Xolos), American Hairless Terriers etc., they are preferred to be true hairlesses. [b]Only Chinese Cresteds are preferred to be [i]hairy[/i] hairlesses![/b] This is the result of breeding. See the picture in my signature. On the left is a hairy hairless (wich means that it IS infact a hairless dog and not a powder puff. So you have to shave it for it to be hairless. But... does it look hairless to you? The one on the right is Ben. Ben is a true hairless. Even if he would be 10 years without a single shave, he will [b]never ever[/b] look like that! Second of all; I'm [b]really[/b] against any kind of puppymills, backyard breeding etc. Third; I'm not saying I [b]will[/b] use Ben. I'm not saying that at all! I'm just thinking of the possibility, because I [b]know[/b] he would have much to offer to Chinese Cresteds, [b]but[/b] he [b][i]DOES HAVE FAULTS![/i][/b]I'm not even tryeing to suggest that he doesn't. I have got compliments of a few breeders on how grait Ben looks. (Chinese Crested breeders) And that makes me wonder even more. One breeder even asked if she could use Ben as a stud, but I said no, because I haven't tested his knees or eyes yet (planning to do that this summer if I get the chanse). So wether I will ever use Ben or not, that is not the biggest reason for the neutering or not neutering. The biggest reasons why I'm pending is the fact that I want to do the best for him and offer him the best quality of life I possibly can! So far I have heard reasons why I should neuture Ben and explanations of how grait everything will be afterwards, but no one has said to me anyting about how it will be like let's say one hour afterwards. Or two? 24 hours? I'm tryeing to look at this from various of diffirent angles. [b]Not just one! [/b] I strongly live with the motto: "Fools only think about happy days, wise men think about the ups and downs." when I'm tryeing to make a decition. That means that I don't just think: "Oh, grait! In June I can play with Ben, he will not be interested in any girls in heat and stops beeing territorial and marking!" I think: "If I neuter him, he will be in pain in the beggining. Even if I know it will become better with time, there is allso alwas '[i]today[/i]' and I have to think long term, but also short term if I want to be a good dog owner." I'm not mad, I'm not just makeing excuses and I'm not hostile in any way! (Many people might think that by reading this and texts can be missinturpered (how ever you spell that) and it has been known to happen lots of times!) I'm just trying to show you guys my point of view. [b]pets4ever:[/b] You're right. I didn't buy Ben for breeding purpouses, but as a pet and family dog. That is what he is to me and that is how I see him. Still my mind is filled with "what if's" (What if I would use him as a stud? What if he has good inheritage? What if it isn't really allergies?) But the part where you said: "Obviously the dogs need to be show quality." That isn't really the main thing I'm looking for in Chinese Cresteds, because the dogs that are "show quality" are hairy hairlesses! Believe it or not, but true hairlesses have a really hard time in the show ring against hairy hairlesses, because they do look better shaved and all! But do you really have to use veet and other hair removing gels to make your dog hairless?!?! So there are not many true hairless dogs with Championship titles and even fewer breeders even use true hairlesses in breeding! The sad part is, even though the dog might be perfect otherways, if there is a hairy hairless that has a few inperfections but has lots of crest, plume and socks, he will win the Ch title!! That's what makes me mad and that is why I want to fight against theese hairy hairlesses! A dog with good nature, body and teeth is much more important to me then having lots and lots of Championship titles just because of the hair part. If I ever do find a dog that actually does have a Ch title and is a true hairless, I will jump up and down and cheer for joy!! But as it looks right now, hairy hairlesses is what's IN! :( So that's why championship titles don't really matter to me. But I would prefer that the dog has been in a couple dogshows so that I know what judges has thought of his/her body etc. [b]yellowlabsrule[/b]: Thank you for that post, but all of the good reasons are about the long term results. I allso want to know about the short term results and effects. About the "Six Common Excuses for Not Spaying or Neutering Pets" ... I'll tell you exacly what I think of each excuse, so you will know what's going through my mind. Ok? :) [i]1) My pet will get fat and lazy. [/i] I don't think this is for me an excuse. More of a consern and a "what if". [i]2) We want another pet just like Rover and Fluffy. [/i] No, no, no, no, NO! Health issues and "what if's". I don't want to "clone" Ben! :o [i]3) My pet's personality will change.[/i] Again, it's for me a concurn, not an excuse. And I'm afraid it will change for the worse. It's known to happen. I've studied this pretty much and heard stories and I know it's known to happen. And that's one thing that I DON'T want to happen to Ben! [i]4) We can sell puppies or kittens and make money. [/i] Absolutely NOT!! I would NEVER EVER buy a dog JUST AND ONLY for breeding purpouses! NEVER EVER! That's a big tabu for me! This new girl I'm getting, I'm getting as a companion for me and my family, for hobbies and yes, a playmate for Ben (still for the biggest part a companion for me). [i]5) My children should witness our pet giving birth. [/i] First of all, I don't have kids. And even if I would, I would rent a video with a woman having birth and show THAT to them rather then buying a dog for breeding purpouses so that they will se how puppies get into the world! And third of all even if I do become a breeder and have kids, I will keep the kids far away from the room where the girl is having her puppies! So that's not an excuse for me! [i]6) I am concerned about my pet undergoing anesthesia.[/i] This is one thing that I am concerned about, but not as much as the surgery itself. Even if it is a small operation, it is one! And each operation has risks! [b]gooeydog[/b]: I think your overreacting. Especially about the part of "the dogs wouldn't be here if everything would be natural". In some way, yes it's true, but still, I think you are overreacting. Secondly: "You don't know 100% that Ben's allergies are caused by genetics, you also don't know 100% that they aren't. That alone is enough to make a responsible dog breeder alter their dog, as they will not take the chance of their dogs' offspring having to endure the same health problem." You do have a point here, but here is another thing. At the first minute we started to even think that it MABYE would be allergies, I told this to the breeder. First reaction to this was: "It is NOT allergies!!". I explained everything carefully, without any real results. I don't know if it is genetic, but if the breeder would even think that it might be, I think he would have neutered and spayed Ben's parents, but as far as I know, Ben's dad is a new happy father again. I don't really know about his mother, but I doubt it that she is spayed. [b]Hobbit[/b]: That is exacly my point. It isn't just yes or no. You can't say: "Yeah, I'll neuter him today and I can undo it if it happens to be a bad decition." Once you make the decition to neuter, you can't go back. And THAT is the biggest and scariest thing! Thank you for your posts. I hope I will still get more info and thoughts. I doubt it that anyone even had the time to read all of this, but if you did.... :kciuki: THUMBS UP! :lol: But now it's 2AM again... Better go to sleep! Good night everybody! /Crest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crested Posted March 5, 2003 Author Share Posted March 5, 2003 pets4ever: I'm so glad that it went that good for you! But... there are dogs that turn to the worse after the fixing. Some might even be really sick and in real pain. And I'm terrified of causing pain to Ben! /Crest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pets4ever Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Crested - Ben is a cutie, I didn't know that was him. I saw one of those dogs at my sons school and it looked like him (no hair). My daughter went nuts for it! Anyway, my dog did have it easy but it was the vet office that said it would be like that. They see hundreds of males done so I think they have a good overview. Maybe it would help you to talk to one or two vet offices and get their take on post-op details with neutering. Also, I think they use halothane or something which is a gas and is metabolized very quickly and efficiently by the body, not like the injections of the old days. I can see your point in wanting to preserve the "original type" of your breed. I still think that Ben's "quality of life" would be better if he was fixed just because he wouldn't have to worry about all those "male dog" thangs. He could just have fun with you which is all that any dog wants! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicat613 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 You may think backyard breeders are all horrible people but they aren't. There is a wide variety of them, and many of them are people who think they are doing the right thing. But they aren't. NO reputable breeder would EVER sell you a female with breeding rights while you still had Ben intact. END of story. You can think you are buying a great CC for breeding, and no I don't know the breed. But I DO know what reputable breeding is and what reputable breeders require. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Crested --- one thing I want to make perfectly clear. Not one time have I regreted neutering Hobbit. I have regreted that his bloodline is close to being lost. He had a genetic defect which I did not and would not pass onto any future offspring. HIS well being came first and ALWAYS will come first. Hobbit was given pain medication after his surgery. His surgery did not slow him down. He was groggy afterwards, but in a few hours he was up and playing. I had to crate him to keep him quiet. His attitude was the same an hour after surgery as before. His attitude is the same months afterwards as before. It didn't change him. While in high school and college, I worked for a veterinarian. I assisted in 100's upon 100's of neuters and spays. About 99% went like text book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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