Bensam Posted December 27, 2002 Share Posted December 27, 2002 Not just a pretty face, Deep.!! Here in Victoria we have a number of activities run by the Victorian Canine Assoc. Conformation is for registered pure breed dogs. Most of the others are open to any Member of the VCA regardless of breed/cross breed. A lot of 'conformation dogs' compete in a variety of the other activities. We have: Conformation, Obedience, Agility, Endurance, Tracking, Retrieving, Water, Field. Herding, Earth dog. Coursing (Unofficial). So there a lot of other things going on and for the majority of these, a dog which can compete successfully really has to have the appropriate conformation to stay sound while competing, so the whole thing ties in together. Even if you only show your dog in the confirmation classes it takes a lot of time to keep them fit and correctly muscled and healthy, both physically and mentally, as, believe it or not, a day, sometimes two, at a show is tiring. Should see me when I get home :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicat613 Posted December 27, 2002 Share Posted December 27, 2002 [quote name='deepseasnake']Ali what exactly is conformation? I believe it is a set up standard that the dogs must meet to be able to compete in shows, right? I dont really know but that is what Ill go on until Im told differantly. if a dog if conformed to a standard that reflects the ability to look pretty while trotting in circles doesnt that include the exclusion of certain other maybe "undesirable " traits in reguard to the show circut that may benefit the dog in a more natural environment. Maybe its pivitable things I am talking about, I dont know shows or Danes but I know that the health problems that occur now werent an issue back when a specific breed did what it was meant to. Ill bet Mastinos are a better example than danes but I dont know maybe danes are totally exempt from what Im talking about I mean, who goes boar hunting anymore? [url]http://www.a-wild-boar-hog-hunting-florida-guide-service.com/[/url] [url]http://www.guidedventures.com/Wild%20Boar%20Hog%20Hunting.htm[/url] [url]http://www.gamecalls.net/fieldreports/hoghuntingflorida.html[/url] [url]http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/1599/hogcatchingphotos.html[/url] [url]http://www.fourseasonshunting.org/hog.htm[/url] hog hunting is still quite popular wherever there are hogs, there are no hogs in washington but down in the areas there are it is still, to my understanding a thriving sport, however I've never seen danes hunting hogs I agree with the lack of tone in a written message, Im not trying to argue either, just understand usually Im just missing information so thats what Im looking for[/quote] Well I made this great long post last night, then lost power and the post. Argh! Conformation is a lot more than just looking pretty. It's about correct movement, bone structure, carriage, coat, etc etc. It's about which dog in the ring is truest to the breed standard as set forth by the national breed club. It does not exclude aspects beneficial to the dog, contrarily, it requires a dog to have correct bone structure for movement, correct bite, correct gait, etc. A dysplastic dog showing symptoms could not win in conformation (there are dysplastic dogs who show no symptoms, and can be shown successfully). As for the health problems, those are not from the standard, those come from disreputable breeders who feel they do not need to health test because "their dogs are healthy". If all dogs bred were tested fully before breeding, then the problems would be reduced greatly. Also, they didn't have as many problems back then because the breed was still newer. Now, there are years and years of breeding among the same bloodlines. I'm not talking about line breeding, I'm talking about simply, there is a limited population of Danes being bred. Well! Who knew!? People do go bar hunting. Huh. Well you learn something every day! Well at least I hope to. LOL Although I doubt many of them take along dogs who are expected to take down the boar. Glad we are clear, neither of us are arguing! :) I enjoy a good discussion and getting other's perspectives and ideas, that's all I'm doing. So you never really answered about what you think about this. Should we continue to breed dogs in a way that gears them towards obsolete uses? When is it ok, when is it not, for a breed to evolve a new place and use in society? We as humans rarely have need for a dog as we did long ago. There are very few real "jobs" for dogs, aside from SAR and service dogs. What of the many hunting and herding dogs? Which breeds is it okay for them to become only pets? I believe the overwhelming desire for a dog is about personal companionship. Some people need a dog for other reasons, but I would speculate the most popular is simply as a family pet. So shouldn't many breeds, who's prior function is no longer necessary, if suitable, become more well-known as a wonderful family dog rather than trying to retain useless traits? I would imagine that most Danes used in boar hunting were bred to have a good prey drive. There, in my opinion, is a good example of a trait that does not mesh well with evolved desires. The Dane is now generally wished for as a family pet, and a high prey drive, geared towards boar size animals, would be very dangerous. I'm not sure in fact though this is gone actually. Parker has no drive to cats or small animals, but does seem to love to try to fetch toddlers, which are about boar size. Thankfully he doesn't try to kill them! Whew...another long one. Just some thoughts for discussion. Interesting topic you brought up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 27, 2002 Share Posted December 27, 2002 The difference between a dog owner and someone that owns a dog. A dog owner takes thier animal out and does activities, pehaps not the specific activity it was bred for but somehing simialr, it you have a rottie you may go backpacking or drafting; if you have a GSD you may try ring sport, Bully Breeds LOVE springpole by the way, they also enjoy pulling you on a skateboard or bike. The activity you do with your dog doesnt have to be a direct correlation to thier original purpose as long as its fun and healthy for the both of you. Conformation, OB, agility, shutzhund, ring-sport, street-ring, personal protection, drafting/ carting, weight-pull, jogging, fetch, tug-o-war, whatever. A person that just feeds thier dog and pats it on the head should get a fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveLabs Posted December 27, 2002 Share Posted December 27, 2002 Today, most people consider their dogs as part of the "family" Technology has improved, and dogs aren't needer or used as much for the things that they use to be used for. Some people still hunt dogs, some people do SAR with their dogs, some people show dogs, some people do agility, others use their dogs for herding... and then there are those that have their dogs as a companion... I really do not think that it makes a dog more important if it does some sort of work, or if it is just a "family dog". I own two family dogs- I don't show them, they don't hunt, they don't do agility- they are part of my family- and to tell you the truth- they love it that way. As time changes- so does life. Dogs used to be used primarily for some sort of work-depending on the breed, now- people are bonding with their dogs, forming inseperable relationships...and treating them more like family members. My dogs still go out- get exercise, romp through the field, retrieve, and do fun stuff- and after all the fun and play is over, they love to cuddle... Look how much humans have changed since back then- we have become lazier (sp?), our technology has improved- making it more simple to do some things...we don't have to work as hard as people had to way back then... Along with dogs being more prone to unhealthiness, we have grown more prone to unhealthiness also...you hear about so many diseases, cancer, AIDS, you name it... And since people have gained such an inseperable relationship with their dogs, they have more feelings with their dogs, and care more about them...so they take them to the vet on a regular basis, and try to do whatever is possible to keep them healthy... My dogs aren't "lazy" they do things- I make sure they get a certain amount of exercise each day, and I don't think anyone should let their dogs just "sit around and be lazy"- its not good or healthy for them...but also, its not good to "overwork" your dog either..... I guess you could say, over the years- things have changed...maybe things that we don't agree with...but its up to us to make a change in that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulDodger Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 I totally agree with you Ilovelabs, a dog's main job in current times is to act as a family pet. To be as comfortable lounging on the sofa as he is sniffing other dog's butts in the park. This makes every dog as happy as the proverbial pig in ... mud. My point is that these things do not have to come at the expense of a dog's ability to work or do what it was originally bred to do. A dog that will herd well or fight well, hunt well, retrieve or point/set well can be just as smoochy as the fattest, most spoilt, most people orientated cavalier K C spaniel. My dogs are prime examples of that. You see them on a pig (feral, environmental vandals in australia) and you are in awe; they are concentrated, silent, and determined when they have a hold of a pig. The speed and agility needed is absolutely amazing, it's like a BIG black hairball and 2 or 3 smaller, white hairballs joined together and buffetted around by a tornado. Anyway, my point is that these same dogs become silly, smoochy, clownish family pets the moment they get home. They chill with me on the couch watching tv, they come up for a pat every 10 minutes or so, they chase the ball and go mental when you spray the hosepipe, they wag their whole bodies wearing their happiest grins when they see you, even after just one hour. I have a friend with huntbred German shorthaired pointers and her dogs are great in the field but they're also big smoochy suckers at home. Another friend has an Australian Cattle Dog, he is well capable of herding cattle (although he rarely gets a chance to show it) but he's also a family boy. Another mate has a jack russell terrier who can kill a rat in one shake but can be on your lap snoring 10 minutes later. A fellow hunter's rescued greyhound was a fulltime track dog, is now a fulltime roodog and also reclines like Cleopatra with her beautiful head in his lap. I love greyhounds, I'm going to rescue one one day, they are LOVELY dogs in every way. I think you can still have your family pet but the dog should be able and happy to do what it was originally bred to do. There are plenty of designer dogs out there which were "built" around original breeds and have become breeds in their own right. But, I think it is important to keep the breeds we have now that can still perform their jobs well and be as functional as possible. This inevitably produces a rather different looking dog to its show counterparts. The pitbull comes in all shapes, sizes and colours. You can get the tiny little ones with small heads and tight lips, the stockily built ones with huge heads and muscles on their muscles or ones with a rangey, houndlike build and loose lips and jowls. They look so different because they have been bred more for fighting than for show, thus the breeders don't give a hoot about standards as long as the dog can hold it's own in a fight and not give up. The average working border collie is a skinny rake of a thing with boundless energy who looks like a mongrel compared to a show border collie who is stockier, fluffier and more "pure" looking. Put the two in with a flock of sheep tho and it becomes obvious pretty soon which one is the real/original border collie. The show collie will be interested in the sheep and start herding in a haphazard kinda way but the workbred dog will have the whole thing sorted and have the sheep in a tight bunch before you can say "white a nice mob of sheep" Obviously there are exceptions to every rule but people who are after a new sheepdog for their property will usually buy from a known breeder who has proven working dogs. I just want to add that in no way am I criticising anybody out there who does not use their dogs for work or fulltime hobby, my dog's main function is to be my best friends and family and when they retire from pigging I don't lose any affection or respect for them. They live out the rest of their days as spoilt old codgers. One day when I'm an old codger I will still have dogs but I won't be taking them out on pigs anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulDodger Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 If anyone is interested in seeing my dogs just to check for fight wounds or signs of neglect I hope you will have a look at some pics I have posted on the following website. [url]http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?selected=129740[/url] By the way, I'm on the site too. Yep, this is what a pig hunting, pitbull owning aussie guy looks like. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Oooohhhhh, shucks K!! you're making me blush. 8) I checked out your site too and I gotta say you don't scrub up too badly either (to use a much hated Australian saying) :wink: oh, and your dogs are nice too hehehehehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulDodger Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 oops, forgot to log in when I returned that post, I appeared as guest. K, see above comments from "guest" , well ArtfulDodger meant them too. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Great photos Dodger 8) Do you think a crossed herding dog eg. heeler/border collie X could do an ok job of herding sheep, for example? (do farmers used mixed bred dogs for working?) My dog is this approximate mix and I think that if he'd been a farm/working dog from birth he'd have been very good at something herding orientated even if it was just chooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Actually, now that I think about it maybe not, because he would nip at the sheep's heels. :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulDodger Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Hi bk_blue I'm a rural journalist and I have come across a guy in the north of West Australia who uses red or blue heelers crossed with boxers for rounding his cattle. He swears that they are really good at it, he reckons the extra length in the legs and the extra muscle makes them work longer and harder. The cattle he uses them on are a wild bunch of station cattle so they need some serious dogs to get them moving. Other cattle and sheep guys swear by the more traditional purebred herders eg borders, heelers, kelpies etc I guess it's all in the dog?? Maybe your dog would be better off on cattle if he likes nipping heels?? Mind you he'd have to learn how to duck a kick while in mid gallop, that's gotta hurt!!! :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Yeah, I think he's getting on a bit (he's 7), a complete hyperactive nutcase, smart as hell, very stubborn- and I would be too scared he'd get kicked! I think he'd LOVE it though, running around dodging things and biting things- he'd get off on it fer sure. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulDodger Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 ooohhhh bk_blue, I've just been to your site. I thought the average internet chatter/forum watcher would be an ugly, hunchbacked troglodyte. Thankyou so much for proving me wrong!!! 8) Seems like we guys are surrounded by good lookers in this forum, the dogs aren't bad either hehehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 8) - that's me, looking gorgeous and cool in my sunnies (pity about the bright yellow face). :drinking: that was me earlier tonight- no drunk photos will [i]ever[/i] be posted! BK is way better looking than me, he gets SO much attention when we go out- kind of like escorting a movie star everywhere. He loves it, he's such a princess. :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulDodger Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 BK is way better looking than me, he gets SO much attention when we go out- kind of like escorting a movie star everywhere. He loves it, he's such a princess. Does bk stand for Brad Kitt?? :) I feel very proud walking Cleo, she always used to attract attention from people, even got me a date or 2 when she was an ULTRA CUTE little puppy. :wink: Hey, if you've got a pup that melts girl's hearts you may as well use it to your advantage huh?? Back me up on this guys. 8) I know what you mean about drunk photos, they always end up with the subject with half closed or bung eyes and a stupid lopsided grin on their glowing faces. I know, I've seen plenty of pics of me in a less than ... lucid state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 :lol: can sympathise with that! It's been proven (though I think by [i]Cosmo [/i] :roll: ) that a puppy worked better as a pickup tool than a sports car or a baby. Not really surprising eh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulDodger Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 Imagine the succes you'd have with a hot car with puppies in it. :o If it came from COSMO then it's definitely gospel, Cosmo is the handbook for men on how to fathom women. Or was that Ralph Magazine??? :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 :lol: I once knew a publican who used to be a jockey, our band used to play at his pub. He had a Rotty puppy who was absolutely beautiful, and a BMW Z3 Roadster (convertible). He was still an arrogant twit and short to boot. :roll: :wink: (when is chat coming??? :P ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulDodger Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 Say no more, a short man who owns a massive dog and a very expensive sportscar is a git by definition. The fact that he owns a pub as well is just extra trimming. :wink: They say the car is an extension of the pecker, does this mean he's really really small and really really fast? Maybe the convertible part refers to him being circumsized? I'm assuming you'd know bk_blue, after all you were the one who told me that puppies work as a pick up tool and he had a nice rottie pup??? 8) Is there supposed to be a real time chat channel opening up here?? Hope so. Not that I'd have enough computer savvy to be able to use it. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 I don't know how small he is and I don't want to know, he's so feral! We all spent our band breaks playing with the puppy! 8) [size=2]but it wouldn't surprise me if he was hung like my little finger. Oh I am so superficial. [/size] :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulDodger Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 :lol: you're terrible muriel. What pick up lines would he use? "The blinkers won't worry you at all little filly, I'll give you your head in the last furlong and we'll cum through a length ahead." Aaahhh, the pick up line, a magnificent artform. :) so 8) , you come here often? :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 [quote name='K']I got picked up with the line "Could you just hold this straight while I slip the thingy in..its lubed up it won't take a second" :oops:[/quote] I can see why you fell for that smooth line K. :D Maybe I should try it next time I go out. I'll let you know how it goes just as soon as I recover conciousness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 K, I couldn't have scripted a better pickup line myself. :lol: Is that man now your bikie hubby? :wink: I fell for this one last year, went something like this: "Apparently women can make up their minds in ten minutes whether or not they want to sleep with a guy, and it only takes guys two minutes. *suggestive eyebrow raise*" It worked- we went out for nine months :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulDodger Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Again I forgot to log in, that was me disguised as guest before K. I thought that pick up line might have something to do with mechanics. Either that or veterinary medicine on a farm. :wink: bk, the line that came from your partner sounds pretty smooth, might have to try that tomorrow night. hehehe I've had varying success with "Hello, how do you like me so far?" It's alot more effective than "jesus, are they real?" and "you should see it when it's full of blood" :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 LOL! Good luck!! :P erk- men... :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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