Anyone have experience with Queensland Heelers?

[wildbunch]

A woman I work with has a Queensland Heeler. She is having trouble with the dog. She is very aggresive, chases kids on bikes and won't let anything in the yard. She even bit her sons girlfriend. The dog is actually her sons and has been spoiled, she is a year old. I have told her to seek some professional behavioural assistance but she may not be able to afford it. Anyone have any ideas in how to curb this in the butt before it gets to far?
The son loves the dog with all his heart and the dog loves him but mom is thinking that this is getting a little too out of control for her taste. I don't want her to think her only option is to have the dog put down. And I'm not so sure the dog should be placed in a new home on a ranch because the dog is a house dog now.
All advise is greatly appreciated.

[Hobbit]

[quote name='wildbunch']A woman I work with has a Queensland Heeler. She is having trouble with the dog. She is very aggresive, chases kids on bikes and won't let anything in the yard.

[color=red][b]FIRST -- This just reinforced my post in the "Breeds" section!! ACD's should NOT be sold to pet families! :evilbat:

She is simply doing her job. She is "heeling", which is what she was bred to do. She has a dominant personality because that is what she was bred to have. She is loyal and protecting the interests of her "family". ACD's love their family, but bond with one person and tend to ignore the rest. She is obvious the alpha dog in the family pack.

She should have been taught what was acceptable to heel and what was not acceptable when she was a puppy. She is doing EXACTLY what her characteristics and genetics are dictating --- SHE IS HEELING. You can't beat this out of them, can't turn it off, but CAN manage it.[/b][/color]


She even bit her sons girlfriend. The dog is actually her sons and has been spoiled, she is a year old.

[color=darkred][b]Being spoiled has nothing to do with her behavior. Being allowed to conduct herself in a behavior that is not conducive to a safe environment, has everything to do it! I can imagine that the son thought it was "cute" to have her chase and heel his friends and to have a bada$$ dog that "protects" him. I'm guessing that he and his girlfriend were wrestling, or she made a move toward him that the dog preceived as aggressive and reacted to the situation ---- BECAUSE SHE HAS NEVER BEEN TAUGHT WHAT ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR IS! [/b][/color]

I have told her to seek some professional behavioural assistance but she may not be able to afford it.

[b][color=red]"Can't afford it?" I can not tell you the anger that I am feeling right now. If she can't afford the training, then she should have NEVER allowed this dog to be brought into the family, period! I still say, ACD's should NOT be sold to PET families. This girl is going to pay the ultimate price for her devotion to these idiots. [/color][/b]

Anyone have any ideas in how to curb this in the butt before it gets to far?

[color=red][b]This should have been stopped a long time ago. She does need to attend an obedience class, but since they are not willing to sacrifice their beer and cig money to spend on the dog ---- read the posts from Googeydog on the "Aggressive" dog thread and how to introduce her to situations (it is good advice).

I received an email regarding the same type of situation from another lady and her grandchildren. The ACD was an older dog and she was told to muzzle her by her friends. Here is my response to her: She said it is working for her situation.[/b][/color]

[i][color=blue]Muzzling will not correct the behavior. You are right, this is instinct and since this is genetic there is nothing you can do to stop this --- but you CAN redirect her behavior and teach her what she can heel and what she can not heel. This actually should have been done many years ago.

Has she ever had any obedience training (professional, at a class, or by someone that is experienced at training)?

If not, you will need to put her on a leash and teach her to "down" (lay down) on command. The other command she will need to know is the "off".

To teach the down. For now (until she knows her command) go to a quite place without any other animals so she can focus on you and not be distracted. If she is food oriented, this is good. ALWAYS be sure and call her name prior to any command. While she is sitting in front of you, show her the treat, and hold it a few inches from her nose (don't give it to her) and then move her hand directly down and slightly back toward you and call her name and tell her to down. She may do it and she may just stand up. If she stands up, put her back in a sit and try again. You may need someone to assist you until she understands. Have your assistant stand behind the dog and when you drop your hand with the treat, she'll follow it with her head, give the "down" command, have your assistant push on her shoulders. She should lay down. Praise her if she does. As soon as she eats her treat, she'll stand up. This is okay. Do it several times and always praise her. Quit when she is in the down position after lots of praise. Do this several times a day for short periods of time (like ask her to down 3 or 4 times). Be consistent and repetitious. Increase the length of time that she stays down. Incorporate the word, "stay" in there while you are making her stay down. Only let her get up when you give her the release command (okay, get up, whatever you want to use). If she gets up before being released, put her back down. Make the training fun not a punishment. Use a firm, low tone voice. You know, say it like you mean it and not like you are playing until she understands what down means.

If she isn't treat (food) oriented, then you can use the leash. While she is sitting, call her name and tell her to down while you are stepping on the leash (while pulling underneath your foot, like a pully --- it will pull her to the ground). Do it slowly, don't hurt her. Praise her when she lays down. Take her walking and do this several times, always calling her name first. And always praise her for downing. Always quit on a positive note and never get mad at her.

After she has this command down. Have someone else hold her and you tell her to down, while standing a few feet from her. If she tries to come to you, have your assistant hold her --- you call her name and say, "no stay" then tell her to down again, and have the assistant step on the leash to down her --- while you are saying her name and giving her the command. Again, gradually lengthen the time you make her stay down.

As soon as she will down without thinking about it, try it off leash. Hopefully, she will down. Then.....the instant she goes after the Lab to heel her.....call her name and tell her to down. If she doesn't down, go to her and make her down and stay down for a few minutes, then release her. Do not be surprised if she goes right back to the Lab to heel her. Just call her name and tell her to down. She will get the connection. Just be persistant, repetitious and always use the same command word. Don't lose your temper, that would be counter productive. No hitting, kicking or slapping.....even if you want too. I know how aggravating they can be, trust me! haha.

Next the "off" command. It's going to be hard to explain --- I will try, tho:

Have her to sit in front of you. Show her --- her favorite treat. Hold the treat in front of her nose and when she tries to take it, lightly poke her in the nose with the treat and say -- "OFF" (keep your hand in the same position throughout the entire command -- only move it to poke her in the nose). You may have to do this several times. The second she stops trying to get her treat, say "GOOD GIRL" and without moving your hand, tell her "Okay, you can have it, take it" and let her come to the treat and take it (don't move your hand to her). Be sure and not to move your hand, in otherwords, don't take the treat to her, let her come to the treat. Understand? Some dogs will walk off when you poke them in the nose, just call her back and try again (don't poke her hard, because their nose is very sensitive).

As soon as she has this command down, you can tell her to "off" anything. Like, when she starts to heel the Lab. Call her name and tell her, "get off her". She should look at you, really praise her for stopping to look at you.

This will NOT happen over night. It is a continuous process and will be something that you'll have to do for the rest of her life (tell her to "get off" and "down" her). It's genetics and you can't undo what is a part of their breeding or characteristic. They play by heeling each other, they fight by heeling each other, they work by heeling livestock. It's just a part of the way they act. The only thing you can do is to manage it. She can be taught when it's okay and when it's not. [/color][/i]


The son loves the dog with all his heart and the dog loves him but mom is thinking that this is getting a little too out of control for her taste.

[b][color=darkred]Dear mom --- the situation is OUT of control because YOU allowed it to be, NOT the dog. She is doing exactly what she was bred to do and YOU, YOU, YOU should not even have this dog as a PET in the first place and YOU, should have done YOUR research, then YOU, YOU, YOU would know that this breed needs a firm but respectful hand when it comes to obedience! Am I pi$$ed, YES I AM! [/color][/b]

[b][color=indigo]BREATHE HOBBIT, BREATHE ............[/color][/b]


I don't want her to think her only option is to have the dog put down.

[color=red][b]It's NOT. [/b][/color]

And I'm not so sure the dog should be placed in a new home on a ranch because the dog is a house dog now.

[color=darkred][b]The dog CAN adjust to farm life. Not all working dogs are kept outside, many are kept inside the house as part of the family. She would get the mental and physical stimulation that she needs. An *experienced* herding dog owner would be more appropriate than euthanasia or the shelter.[/b][/color]

All advise is greatly appreciated.

[color=red][b]Please do not take anything that I am about to say as personal towards you, it is not meant to be.[/b][/color]
[/quote]

[gooeydog]

I'm with Hobbit. The dog doesn't need to be spoiled, it needs to be worked. Hard. It needs a job of some sort, even if it's something as simple as agility or playing catch (although in this case, that may not be enough). She's sitting around with all that energy, but nothing to do, so she's finding her own outlets for her energy. She needs some sort of "mental stimulation" so that she won't be so bored. In addition to teaching the dog "off", she can start redirecting it to other more suitable outlets for it's energy release, like a tug or other toy. The easiest way to do this is to "off" her from whatever she's nipping/chasing, and immediately get her engaged with the suitable toy, then praise immensly. Eventually the dog will begin to automatically go to the toy to "unload" when it sees something it's not supposed to be chasing/nipping (ie: if the dog is loose in the yard and a child runs across, rather than chasing the child, the dog will go find the toy and either play or bring it to someone). There are plenty of books and articles about redirection (and other types of) training, so if she can't/won't take the dog to training, it would be a good idea for her to invest in some literature :lol:

[Bentley's Dad]

Hobbit : i rescind everything i said in the BC's and ACD's thread with my tail between my legs.

Neither of these dogs should ever be sold as a PET only animal, I cringe to think that Bentley's brother (who was at the humane society the same time i was adopting Bentley) could be in a situation like that.

If you can only tell the woman one thing tell her that her dog problems are 100% her fault, not the dogs. She should have known what she was getting into ( a 10+ year day in day out relationship), and had she done even the most rudimentary research she would have learned that queensland heelers (more widely known by there official name ACD) are herding dogs with extremely high energy. Would she buy a house or a car without at least looking inside? of course not, so why would she get herself into a relationship thats just as important if not moreso?

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

I gave her the information for this forum but she's never written on one before and to tell you the truth she might have been a little hurt by some of the comments. I'm glad I posted for her so I can print out the suggestions and get rid of the comments.
Now don't get me wrong I'm not upset and I agree 100% but some people can't take criticism.
They bought the dog because they had had one before and she was a perfect dog for her family. Unfortunately most people don't know that just because one dog is great it doesn't mean the next dog in the same breed will be the same.
But to sum it up should she seek a home on a ranch for the dog.
Her son will miss it but if it is best for the dog I will recommend it too her. I don't think her sons will take this advise very seriously and will think she'll grow out of it. I know that they all really love the dog but she's obviously not happy.
Again I thank you for your suggestions and will pass some of them on.

[Bentley's Dad]

Look for an ACD rescue, or encourage the family to give the dog [size=6][u][i][b]alot[/b][/i][/u][/size] more excercise. Ranch would be a good idea, but might be hard to find, then again you might have said that she had one lined up (cant remember). If you cant find one immediatly go for the ACD rescue, they will find a good home and dont euthinize so you dont need to worry about the dog not getting adopted right away.

[anne3149]

I had a heeler rescue dog. However I got her at 4 months old. I took her to obedience training right then at her age and taught her how to behave the way I wanted her. She is old now and though she is still a bit yappy and she will round up the other two dogs, they consider it to be play and she is happy with just being able to round them up. After obedience training we did agility - she was brilliant. But to get an ACD and do no training at all will result in problems. If you want to keep this dog who is doing an excellent job for her breed. Then enrol her in obedience immediately. She will catch on quickly because she is smart. She deserves a chance to prove to you what she can do. But if you don't teach her she will not know. This breed of dog is not suitable for people who do not bother to train them. They are not couch potatoes and need your input into their development.

[bk_blue]

I agree with what everyone said. Heelers are so active and you can't just have them as couch dogs. They need to be worked physically AND mentally. Most of them (including mine) are too smart for their own good! :wink: If people understood this before they bought them then there wouldn't be half as many in rescue or put to sleep every year. I wish they would also understand these dogs are bred to work, and heeling is part of it, you can't just breed it out or ignore it, it would be like expecting a bird not to fly.
I hope everything works out for this dog because it would a shame if she got put into a shelter or even PTS for her "aggressive behaviour" when that's not really the case at all.
Good luck and I hope your friend sees sense and either works with the dog, or sends her to an appropriate home or rescue. :)