Guest Anonymous Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I have a question. I have a 2/12 year old alaskan malamute and a 3 year old sheltie. Lately, for a couple of months now, my malamute, Journey has been very mean to my sheltie, buster. Journey will turn around and attack him, not playfully. It's alittle scary...Not all the time she does it. but a couple of times a week. Sometimes once a week. If he goes in a spot that she sleeps in normall , or when we let them in from outside, if he goes in first or right behind her, she will and she has left a tooth mark on the side of his neck. Also, when we brought her to get bathed and cleaned, which has been the same place for a while. the people there love her. the were brushing her and then she was getting angry with the other dogs, and the handler was petting her to calm her down and journey turned around and growled where she could see down journey' throat, they had to put a muzzle on her. That was the first time ever that she had done that. She is a mush with the family and anyone that comes. Very concerned. WHAT IS CAUSING THIS? HELP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke_3 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I dn''t know theses breeds moods or anyting as i dont reserch them and have never owned one, but i think it could..possibly be aggression? DONT THINK IT! I DO NOT know, it jsut sounds kind of like it might be.. Shara will know.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malamum Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Trina, Malamutes are VERY pack orientated and can also be very dominate. It seems to me she has just began to mature at two and a half and is now asserting her dominance firstly over Buster and also it seems, to the groomer when they did something she wasn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Malamum, you may not be an "expert", but that was phenomenal advice. Exactly what I was going to say! And I have broken MANY a dominant dog in my day, using just those methods. Malamutes (I had a Malamute Mix, and they can be a handful) tend to want to be dominant. They are truly pack animals, like my Foxhound. They respond to pack training better than any coddling, treating, persuasion or exasperation can accomplish. Your Journey needs to be demoted. Now. She will teach Buster, but it could cause damage to Buster. Better you regain Alpha control, seperate them and intervene. Journey should obey YOU, always, even if it means leaving Buster alone. Now, I know there are alot of people who believe that dogs have been domesticated for so long they dont need pack rules anymore, and to them I say "try raising a Malamute, a Husky, a Dobie, Rottie, or GSD without them, and dont call me when you get bitten...." :evilbat: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malamum Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Thanks Courtnek, although I can't take credit for the alpha training rules. I copied them from another board I belong to. I do consider the person who wrote them pretty much an expert and if she gives advice - I listen. I think those training rules are great and I use all of them with Indy. [quote]Now, I know there are alot of people who believe that dogs have been domesticated for so long they dont need pack rules anymore, and to them I say "try raising a Malamute, a Husky, a Dobie, Rottie, or GSD without them, and dont call me when you get bitten...." [/quote] I couldn't agree more. I don't personally know about the other breeds but when it comes to malamutes you are asking for trouble if you don't follow pack rules, both with humans and with other dogs in the house hold. You really need to be very strict and very firm, if not they will walk all over you. They are a classic example of "if you give them an inch - they will take a mile" - well Indy is anyway :wink: Oh - Trina, I also forgot to say that I honestly belive that Journey is at present just warning Buster. If she really wanted to hurt him she could have and would have, but you need to step in and get them used to their places in the pack before it gets that far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 the breeds I mentioned are all "dominance seekers"..they are large, and can be dangerous, and really, if given an inch they will take a mile.... They are also more prone, maybe because of size, to try to take the Alpha role from an owner who doesnt know better. They need strong handling, I think they know they can hurt you if they become Alpha and YOU dont comply. They need "work".....they need someone who will handle them. control them and make them live by the pack rules. I have a Lab Mix and a Foxhound....the Lab Mix is basically full of herself. Thinks she's Queen Freebee...Laurel is a pack Hound, field trialed. Both respond well to pack rules, which is what I teach by without exception. Freebee gets out of line and a 'KNOCK IT OFF" in "that" voice will chill her out. She wil leave the room and settle down. Without the pack rules, I dont think I could have kept my malamute mix. He was dangerous, literally, because I didnt know any better. He was 100 lbs of "wannabe" Alpha....and I didnt know about pack rules then. He ended up being an excellent dog, that I could trust anywhere and with anyone..but it took alot of pack rules and training. have argued this point repeatedly with the people who think "its not necessary, they're domesticated..." they're only as "domesticated" as you teach them to be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malamum Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 [quote]have argued this point repeatedly with the people who think "its not necessary, they're domesticated..." they're only as "domesticated" as you teach them to be...[/quote] Again, I totally agree. Dogs are not little humans walking around in fur coats. Yes they are domesticated, but they don't think the same way we do. I read about so many problems occurring because people believe that if they love and spoil their dog then of course it's going to be all nice and well behaved. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way - we need to teach them in ways [u][i][b]they[/b][/i][/u] understand and I believe that all dogs understand pack rules. I think if every dog owner followed rules like the alpha training tips I posted above there would be a lot fewer people having to deal with aggressive or hard to handle dogs. Granted, not all breeds and not all individual dogs need you to be totally strict on all of the rules, but if you use them as the basis of your training you can't go wrong. JMO. If you scroll down to the bottom of the thread at this link [url]http://www.webrag.com/wildpaw/forum/index.php?showtopic=564[/url] there is an excellent article called "Stopping the Doggy Dictator". It really is worth the read. I haven't posted it directly here as I am hesitant to copy and paste other people's work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 I posted to this question in the training forum. I don't know if you saw it so I thought I'd just post my reply here. They are right Not only are they are establishing pack order but you have a breed which is very independent and is known to display dominance. Its actually very common in dogs coming of age though to display this type of behavior. Your malamute is reaching maturity and just like teenagers its testing the waters. Its very normal. You can work around it. You can let them figure it out...if they are both pretty dominant it may not be a good idea but if you think there is a chance that one of them would be willing to back down I think thats the route you should take. Otherwise you can step in and let them know its not gonna happen before anything starts. You'll have to watch them like a hawk. Pick up on their signals and you have to correct the instigator every time. make it very clear it isn't going to happen in your home anymore. ALWAYS separate them if you are not going to be home or able to watch them. If you need anymore help or want to talk more...I have a website I just opened. There are quite a few professionals on there who deal with aggression and dominance issues regularly. The link is in my signature line. Its always good to get a few views on advice. Hope to see you there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Thank you so much for the advice...I did know alot of that pack training. I have done alot of that...With us she knows her place at the house. Its weird. We alway tell her to move if she in our way....Sometimes she'll talk back to us. But alway moves. I will make sure everyone in the household is doing the same. Thank you so much for the advice....Do you think she would really hurt buster or is she just warning him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malamum Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Trina, as I said I am definitely no expert - hell I only have one dog, but from what I have read about others with the same issues that you are currently having I do think she is only warning him and putting him in his place at the moment. She is letting him know that she considers herself above him. If Buster does not accept this and wants to fight her for the position of top dog, that is where you may come into trouble. On the malamute board I go to the people who have multiple dogs always say the loud fights with a lot of carry on tend to be more posturing than anything – if they want to cause damage it’s usually quick and silent. If it were me in the same position I would set the parameters of Journey being first and buster being second (again this doesn’t mean that you love either dog more than the other - it's just keeping the peace). With you and your family to enforce it and keep them in their order then Journey will feel no need to keep Buster in line herself and Buster will also accept his place more easily. Keep us updated on how they go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Malamum is again correct. The louder the squabble, the more likely it's posturing, but if Buster wont back down then you have to step in and take over. They cant be equal, not with each other. their instincts wont allow it unless they were male and female and mated. And even then, the male would have the upper hand in a squabble. Interestingly enough, I just had a one one one with Queen Freebee. I am trying to get my rescued Foxhound to chew on rawhide, because she has teeth and gum issues. She is very timid and Omega, and Freebee stole her piece of bone (although I had given her one too) and ran off with it, then warned Laurel away when she tried to retrieve it. Ordinarily I would let them work it out, but Laurel really needs to chew to get her teeth and gum problems under control. I went to get it away from Freebee and she ran, then STOOD ME OFF! when I tried to take it back. Now, I have never been bitten by a dog, although threatened, because I learned how to react to that situation. Because I know Freebee wont bite me, I came up behind her, made her sit, and removed the piece of bone from her mouth, while she was clamped down on it with all her jaw strength. A slight pressure on the gums forces them to open their mouth. She lost the bone, and I gave it back to Laurel, and she was sent to bed. End of story. But sometimes, with a dominant dog, you gotta do these things. YOU rule, that's IT. [quote]Sometimes she'll talk back to us. But alway moves[/quote] THAT'S a typical teenager.....my son does the same thing... :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.