Guest Anonymous Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 I have 2 dogs, "Dixie" is a 2 year old female australian cattle dog lab mix and "Harley" is a 7 month old female redbone yellow lab mix. Dixie has the most sweetest disposition and is such a kind and loving girl, but Harley on the other hand is just the opposite of sweet. On occasions, Harley will attack Dixie and my husband & I have to pull them apart. Just recently Harley attacked Dixie from out of the blue and my husband had to pull Harley off of her and while trying to restrain her, she bit him big time in the arm and drew blood. I don't think she bit him intentionally, I believe his arm got in the way while pulling them apart, but this concerns me terribly. Sometimes when Harley is in a deep sleep and she's next to me or anyone for that fact and you accidently brush up against her while getting up, she goes into attack mode until she fully wakes up and then she's fine. Sometimes when she's sleeping in the living room and Dixie is sleeping in the hallway, Harley wakes up growling viciously then attacks Dixie for no reason at all. I don't know what to do because I love Harley very much but if she doesn't stop this behavior, we'll have to get rid of her. I don't understand why she gets this way because no one's ever done anything to provoke her. My sister in law got Harley from the shelter when she was a pup but couldn't keep her so I took her when she was 10 weeks old. Harley grew up with Dixie and they really do like each other, but she just snaps for no reason at all. Is something wrong with her or could she be inbreed? Both dogs are fixed. Don't know what to do, :( Littledreamer 67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellieangel Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 I would take her to the vets for tests,she could have a pain or a chemical imbalance both of which could well be treatable :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Sounds to me like the typical "bitch wars". Chances are that you will NEVER get them to coexist peacefully in the same house. With females, once one of them decides she doesn't like the other one, there is nothing you can do to get her to behave otherwise for very long. And that is what they do, "Attack the other one for NO REASON" (That WE can see.). There actually IS a reason. They are BOTH female and one has to go. (I am talking about what is going on in Harleys mind.) And the fact that they grew up together makes NO difference. ALso, my guess is that since Harley is only 1, she will probably get worse with age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 "bitch wars" came to my mind also... females living together often snap at each other...if's a dog-eat-dog world for them... I can make one suggestion, but it's hard to carry out and you should really see a professional trainer about it. ONE of them needs to be demoted, so the other can rule. Whichever one is "top dog" right now needs to be given that status permanently. Fed first, paid attention to first, etc..but see a professional trainer before you decide. I have two females co-existing very comfortably, but one is very dominant over the other, and the other accepts it unconditionally. This is hard for people to understand, why cant they be equal? In some situations they can. but not in this one. It's not normal in a pack society. There are leaders, and followers....see a professional. You need to decide a leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Cassie Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 I have always had a multie dog house hold...and I have always had more than one bitch at a time..at one time I had 5 bitches living together! they all got along great...after they decided upon themselves who was who....my worst case was my Doberman Pinscher, Great Pyrenees and Standard poodle with my older border collie mix and I had a female and male Newfoundland at that time also...I let them work out their differences on their own. Most times when dogs are fighting (unless they are a fighting breed) they will make alot of noise etc. but normally once one of them submits things are fine. I have never jumped into the middle of a fight...this prolongs the time which it takes for the dogs to figure things out...I know they are not going to kill each other...but, if I start getting involved then it may esculate to a much more severe fight. Harley is only 7 months old...during this time frame which is called adolescence... :lol: dogs can go through a really rebellious period, they can also build fears and other weird behavior problems at this period which may or may not go away at maturity. Your young Harley is testing her grounds. Be careful how you are handling this situation, do not coddle Dixie which seems to be the one getting attacked...how you are reacting makes a big impact on how your dogs are going to react...I also find that when people are tense all the time in anticipation of a fight and then when a little snarling starts the owner get really upset...it can make the dogs tense and distrustful of each other. I also beleive in touch therapy for dogs...massage as well...get Harley used to your hands as things which bring pleasure not things which are grabbing his collar and pulling him out of a fight...as for the fight your husband pulled Harley out of and was bitten in the process...that is called re-directed aggression which is very normal...as for the waking up growling and protective..that is a great concern...I have only experienced some thing like that once with my border collie mix...we used alot of massage therapy to help her over that bad behavior. I would first take ellieangels advice and seek vet advice to ensure this is just a behavior problem or adolescence...I have seen dogs with hip problems which when disturbed in sleep have been very protective of a sore spot. Also Courtnek gave great advice...you require profession help with this situation...please see an animal behaviorist. I have had many bitches live in complete harmony with each other...I currently have 3 bitches and 2 intact male dogs living peacefully together...I really think alot has to do with how the owner acts around them...all of my dogs sleep in my room and 2 of my bitches sleep in my bed with me...all my dogs rotate with sleeping in the bed the others have to sleep on the floor...they have accepted this without question...in the morning all the dogs jump on the bed to wake me up...I love them all, and I am a calm person who does not get upset if they happen to have a squabble...some of the worst dog fights I have seen is when people get involved... [b]Good luck [/b]also I really recommend people to pick up the bood "the other end of the leash" ...I can't remember the name of the auther at this moment...but, I will get it for you later....you can also look up "calming signals" on an internet search...possibley some one else will be able to give you the auther of the novel and some good sights to look at....but, you still require professional help as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Cassie Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 The book I sugget you purchase is called "The other end of the leash" you can also do an internet search on calming signals by Turid Rugaas. I just wanted to add as well that all my dogs I have not had the pleasure of having since they were puppies. I have been given all of my dogs during adolescence or adults. If you seek advice now, you will be able to get through these terrible teenage years with Harley...good basic obedience is essential as well. I also do admit, I did not do any demoting with any of my dogs...I let them work that out on their own...I also have no order to feeding time of who gets fed first..but, I do have all of my dogs sit before they are fed. I live by the golden rule as "nothing is free" every thing including play time and going out doors to getting treats has to be earned by sitting of laying down. [quote]Sometimes when Harley is in a deep sleep and she's next to me or anyone for that fact and you accidently brush up against her while getting up, she goes into attack mode until she fully wakes up and then she's fine.[/quote] As for this quote by yourself, Harley sounds like she is very guarding of her "personal space" a good trainer will help you with different training excercises which will allow you access to her personal space any time you want. If I can find some of my paper work from the aggression seminar I attended a few years back I will add the training excercises they taught us...we went over personal space, gentle mouth, dog aggression, sibling aggression etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 I also advocate letting them work out their own pack heirarchery on the own, the sooner they do, the sooner they'll calm down a bit. The only time I would generally interfere is if someone looks like they might get hurt or if they are going to ruin something in the house or if one dog has clearly submitted and the other dog carries on for a while. Maybe I missed it in prev. posts - are they fixed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 I too usually let them work it out themselves, however, if it looks like Harley could seriously hurt the other dog, demotion is sometimes necessary. That's why I suggested the trainer. Ordinarily it works itself out, and the display is horrendous and looks terrible, but they dont normally hurt each other....As far as waking up protective, that does require a professional. Your dogs should let you enter their space and do anything you want there, at any time, whether sleeping or not. Only the alpha is allowed to protect his personal space....and that should be you. Good luck with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Kat Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 The 7 month old bitch is at this stage just discovering she is a bitch and hormonal impact is a lot to do with the behavioural change. Keep an eye on them and try to let them sort it out themselves but don't leave them alone together when you leave them in the house.When you are in the house and you think that the younger one needs reprimanded, then do it with a firm voice. They will shake themselves down though, I am fairly sure. Good luck. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black GSD Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 [quote name='DogPaddle']I also advocate letting them work out their own pack heirarchery on the own, the sooner they do, the sooner they'll calm down a bit. The only time I would generally interfere is if someone looks like they might get hurt or if they are going to ruin something in the house or if one dog has clearly submitted and the other dog carries on for a while. Maybe I missed it in prev. posts - are they fixed?[/quote] The thing you have to be aware of it that IF you "let them work it out on their own". You could end up with either HUGE vet bills, OR a dead dog. Sometimes there is no way they can live peacefully. I don't believe in letting them "work it out". It is YOUR house, YOU make the rules. It also sounds like it really isn't as much of a dominance thing as it is just plain old hate. It sounds top me like Dixie is already submissive, so there really is no need to Harley to try to make her submit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 [quote]It sounds top me like Dixie is already submissive, so there really is no need to Harley to try to make her submit.[/quote] true to an extent, however, Harley is younger, and was brought in after Dixie. Dixie reigned supreme, until now....I believe that Harley wants to be top dog, but stealing that position from another dog already in that role causes stress on both dogs. Dixie may be willing to give it up fine, but then again, maybe not. Harley is pushing her weight around....that's why I suggested a trainer, and possibly demotion techniques for one of them... All in all, you as alpha have to run the household. I would not suggest pulling them apart physically, unless you are willing to keep a short lead on Harley, so you dont have to have your hand near her face. You definitely need a trainer invloved here. because Harley will only get more dominant as she gets older. Get her signed up asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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