Holz_Boomer Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 My friend has a new puppy and she tells me that when he doesnt get his way, he REALLY growls AND bites! He bites at her,her son,and her Dog! If he has a toy, and the other doggie trys to take it he bites and growls. Help Please! It's Getting To Be A Serious Problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black GSD Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Sounds to me like they may need professional help. That puppy is the boss of that house and everyone in it. How old is the pup and what breed or mix? What does she do when the puppy reacts like that? The only part that is "acceptable" behaviour is the part about the puppy not letting the other dog take the toys. That is "normal' dog behaviour. And as you know they are DOGS not kids and cannot be made to "share the toys". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holz_Boomer Posted October 25, 2003 Author Share Posted October 25, 2003 The puppy is 3 months old and a lasa apso. I made a mistake--my friend just told me that its the puppy taking the toys from the other one..even if she gives them 2 toys, he goes to try and take the others When this happens, she said "no" and put him in his kennel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black GSD Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Sounds to me like the puppy needs to be on a leash so he can be corrected for bugging the other dog. Putting him in his crate for doing something that is totally natural dog behaviour most likely won't teach him anything. What does she do when the puppy bites and growls at her or her son? ANd how old is her son? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pei obssessed Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 I think the puppy taking the toys is ok, as long as it doesn't look like it's gonna break into a fight. If the other dog is putting up with it and giving up his toy, maybe he wants to be dominated by the new arrival. If he wasn't submissive, he'd stand up to the little guy and let him know that's not his toy. But while I think this is normal dog behaviour, and that they'll sort it out between themselves, the little one growling at humans is not acceptable--for whatever reason. So he probably needs to start tarining--learn to work for his treats, his food, etc. And because he seems to be protective of his things, I'd also teach him that any human is allowed to take his food away at any time, and that any human can take toys away from him--I have a breed who wants to take control over things, and we had to make sure that she understands that we make the calls: we feed her when we decide, and we can take her food away, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holz_Boomer Posted October 25, 2003 Author Share Posted October 25, 2003 BLACK GSD--Icouldnt thank you enough, after reading your advice..i checked a website and it said the following: (Seems like you are absolutely right :wink: :D ) i called my friend and she said to say thank you very much! Once you get to the point that a dog growls *at* you or a family member it is time for professional help. You have no time to waste. The first order of business keeping the dog and the children apart, and avoiding doing anything likely to cause aggressive behavior. Second is a complete physical to make sure there is no physical cause (e.g. pain) that is causing this. This is NOT normal for a well bred dog. Explain the problem to the vet and ask for references to a qualified trainer or behaviorist. Some advice givers are fond of telling people you could just kill the dog - I don't think much of that as a first step. Instead have the dog evaluated so that you can tell if the situation is stable, and if it can be improved. Just getting rid of the dog might solve your problem with this dog, but unless you determine the cause you will be unable to prevent it in future dogs. The reasons for such behavior vary widely and the best response is very individual to the dog and the situation. What works beautifully for one dog will be worse than useless for another. No book or on-line advice can tell you whether this is a simple problem readily resolved, or a difficult one in which the dog cannot remain a member of the family. You need to have someone come to the house and observe the situation. Body language, noise, dog-human interaction are all critical factors in evaluating and correcting such situations. Do not wait for it to get worse. I can't tell you how likely it is you can correct the situation now, but I can tell you that it will not get better on its own. It is a minor price to pay for addressing a potentially dangerous situation without just giving up on an important member of your family. Your veterinarian, other veterinarians, trainers, your SPCA or humane society, shelters and rescue groups are all good sources to check for recommendations. If you decide that the dog cannot remain a member of the family, please do not lie or mislead about the reasons you are giving the dog up. First you can be held liable for any injuries, perhaps even criminally liable. Second, a person who is aware of the dog's problems will be better able to evaluate it, and if possible place it safely. If the dog is unsuitable for your home do not endanger someone else, seek and accept the advice of shelter/rescue/SPCA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holz_Boomer Posted October 25, 2003 Author Share Posted October 25, 2003 pei obsessed- thanks! sorry i didnt see your post! i agree. my friend said that she can take anything away from her other dog w/o growling but when she tries to take something away from the lil one when hes doing something wrong, she gets growled at.thanks :) Black GSD-Her Son is 21 or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Definintely seek professional help - starting with the vet! A dog that young who has become that dominant needs to be evaluated. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holz_Boomer Posted October 25, 2003 Author Share Posted October 25, 2003 yEPP courtnek! FoR SuRe! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 My guess is that your friend and his mom are just doggie-pushovers. Perhaps the other dog has always just been kinda mellow and obedient, and they never got into a dominance tangle with him/her....obvious since it doesnt fight to take it's toys back. That's why I agree with the professional trainer. Friend and mom have to be trained on how to handle their dog. I have always believed that dog training classes are more for the owners benefit then the dog... I have demoted many dominant dogs in my day, for friends and family, but with a dominance situation this bad (and at three months this dog has taken over, that's bad news....) I will not even make a suggestion. They really need a professional on this one.... Give them my best regards, Holz, and wish them good luck for me. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black GSD Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 [quote name='courtnek'] I will not even make a suggestion. They really need a professional on this one.... :)[/quote] That is my thought too. I KNOW what I would do to that little brat. But do not feel right advising someone that I don't know, and have no idea HOW much they know about dog behaviour. (My guess is not a lot or else it would hae never gotten to this point.) (No offense to your friend. :D Everyone has to start somewhere and she IS willing and wanting to get help.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 yea, me too... Most of the dogs I have demoted have been between 8 months to a year or so, never one that young.....since the other dog is so laid-back, they probably have no idea how to handle one who isnt.... I;m glad they're willing to consider professional training. Altho Lhaso's arent huge on the dog scale, any dog with an attitude like that one can be considered dangerous...and ALL dogs can bite, no matter how small. Just for some help, Holz, you know that NO dog should ever be allowed to growl, snap, lunge or in any way threaten an owner. THIS one needs big-time demotion, and your friend and mom have to get him in training asap...before someone gets bitten.... But have them see the vet first...I am just so surprised that a dog that young is acting this way, that I am concerend there may be a physical, medical reason for it's behaviour. I dont want to frighten them, but neurological disorder is a real possibility...especially since he's so young....I wouldnt tell them this...let the vet tell them if that's the case. He may just be very headstrong... Best of luck to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefeathers! Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 [quote name='courtnek'] Altho Lhaso's arent huge on the dog scale...[/quote] No, but they are typically HUGE on the attitude scale. Despite their stature, Lhasas are not a toy breed and do not have the same merry dispositions as most of the dogs bred solely as companions. Lhasas were bred to be indoor guard dogs and are somewhat aloof and independent and, without proper structure and training, can become little canine terrorists. Now you know. :) I agree that professional help is needed. The last foster I placed was a Lhasa Apso (I also own a couple... that independent nature and assertiveness is what I like about them) and he can be extremely snappy and antagonistic if he's not constantly kept under control. They are smart dogs and you can learn to coexist peacefully with them, but I hope they are able to find a trainer who doesn't work solely on domination, but also on how to help these people understand the nature of these dogs and how to handle them. If handled poorly, Lhasas can quickly become fear biters and very defensive and withdrawn which benefits no one... owner nor dog. Just my two cents. I love these little beasties. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 [quote]No, but they are typically HUGE on the attitude scale[/quote] kinda like Chihauhau's eh? :lol: :lol: :lol: the two next door are HUGE on the attitude scale as well... thanks HF - I didnt know that about the Lhaso's, and now I feel better. Attitude can be handled, witht he proper trainer. I was really afraid of disease, which could mean losing the dog.... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holz_Boomer Posted October 26, 2003 Author Share Posted October 26, 2003 yes, i do agree that professional training is required. thanks courtnek for the Good Luck! :D but just to let you know, my friend is a mom :D :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 My bad....sorry... :oops: :oops: :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Kat Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 I agree with the others on seeking help. Lhasas are hugely dominant dogs. My late Grandparents owned one called Nicky, who to be fair was a spoilt little git. I have seen other lhasas and they are not a kids dog. They need reprimanded and reminded where they belong from day one as far as ranking goes. Investing in a cage/ (crate0 is beneficial as this can serve as the puppies own little den to escape from the rest of the house and this should be off-limits to the other dog. As far as sharing toys goes, he is still a little pup and needs to LEARN how to share. Learning is the basis that will shape any dogs attitude. pups don't just pop out and are instantly trained as some people will think! When he growls or barks or bites, the toy needs to be immediately removed, and he needs to be reprimanded. He is a small puppy and this can be done by firmly telling him No in a convinced assertive voice. This is as far as I will go as dominance is a serious issue and assertiveness from owners without shown how to do it properly is a recipe for disaster and can lead to misconception with a dog increasing his aggressive status. Also a trip to the vet is necessary not just for injections, but also for a complete physical checkup. In particular get the vet to check his eyes. Lhasas among other breeds can have a congenital condition called mirror retinolatrophy which affects the retina of the eye. The dog sees in shadow vision and therefore its like he is wearing blinkers. if a person or dog comes up behind him he gets startled and his first line of defence like any animal is to be aggressive so this is certainly something that should be checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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