how smart can a dog be?

[deepseasnake]

so I read this post not to long ago about some chicks dog who was praised for looking for his tennis ball, and it was impresive and all but I tend to think my dogs mental ability far outdo that from time to time. But Im not trying to start a pissing match it made me think/remember something,

years ago I saw a show about this old man in the mid west who claimed to have the smartest dog ever and yadda yadda but on the program it showed the dog retrieveing books of a specific color and title, which is easily written off by repition but I wonder,
how smart can a dog get?

[Guest Anonymous]

I think they are a lot smarter than we give them credit for. I think a lot of times they just choose NOT to do what is asked (e.i., [b]MY DOGS[/b]). Plus, I believe their senses are so much greater than ours...and I'm not talking the 5 senses but that 6th sense we all wonder about. I think they DO have a 6th sense (I think humans do as well but have not discovered it yet) and are very incredible with the way they use it. They can tell when something is wrong and we have NO clue something is wrong...like the weather.

Kika HATES this one kid (he's an adult but acts like a kid :roll: ) that used to stop by to talk cars with hubby. She has never liked him since day one. Because of this, and they way BOTH dogs acted when he came over and we had the pups...I do NOT trust him and will not allow him in my house anymore. He hasn't done anything to us, but he's a little seedy and I trust my dog's instinct more than I trust that sorry excuse for a human. Yes, that's a little harsh but trust me, he's turned into a big meth-head to the point where he's twitching (this is what a friend said who saw him this weekend).

[eric]

There was a study done not too long ago that showed that dogs can count and differentiate between two quantities.

The dogs involved apparently were reliably able to pick the plate with more treats. The greater the difference, the less time it took for them to pick, leading the researchers to conclude that the dogs are doing some sort of basic counting.

The question is perhaps not "Are they intelligent" but how do you measure their intelligence.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='eric']....The question is perhaps not "Are they intelligent" but how do you measure their intelligence.[/quote]

Bingo.

[Bentley's Dad]

I read a book over summer (on Bentley's first camping trip), called the intelligence of dogs, it was VERY insightful and interesting. He proves in the book that dogs can associate, count up to 5, went over the history of the dog, ranked canine intelligence by breed (ACDs are #10). And described a canine IQ test that you could give to your own dog. It was a very interesting book (although i didnt read the part about how the IQ test was done) and i would highly recomend it.

Also the listing of breeds by intelligence can be found here [url]http://www.petrix.com/dogint/intelligence.html[/url]

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='K'][quote name='gigishiba'][quote name='eric']....The question is perhaps not "Are they intelligent" but how do you measure their intelligence.[/quote]

Bingo.[/quote]

Is there a minus on the scale of intelligence for Elric?? :oops: :lol:[/quote]

NO NO! Elric is on the top I'm sure...he just chooses not to show his intelligence! :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='K']GOOD GRIEF YOU MEAN HE'S ACTUALLY A GENIUS!!!!!! :lol:

I am not sure if this counts as we all know how Saints feel about food but Elric can tell the time and I mean almost spot on..it does not work at breakfast as I just feed him anyway but at dead on 12 o'clock he is beside me and he "pesters" with putting a paw up(which is not allowed)and he makes whingy noises until I realise what time it is and the same with 5 pm too and when I say" what are you hungry again?" he runs straight to where the food barrell is......[/quote]

SEE! Told ya! He's smart as all get out!

[Bensam]

OK, can I just throw this one in here, (neck on the block AGAIN :o ).
Does anyone think there is a difference between 'obedience' and 'intelligence'?
I have had dogs, particularly the Afghans, which would look at you blankly when trying to get through the basic obedience, sit, etc. but could work out things for their own benefit. I think the working dog people may agree with this, Hobbit, Koolie?

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Bensam']OK, can I just throw this one in here, (neck on the block AGAIN :o ).
Does anyone think there is a difference between 'obedience' and 'intelligence'?
I have had dogs, particularly the Afghans, which would look at you blankly when trying to get through the basic obedience, sit, etc. but could work out things for their own benefit. I think the working dog people may agree with this, Hobbit, Koolie?[/quote]

I've heard (somewhere it's on the web) that Afgans are the...how to say this nicely....most unintelligent dogs....

[Bensam]

I guess this is what I am getting at. Back in the days when I had Affies, they were the hardest dogs I had ever come across to TEACH anything to, but to live with them and see the way they could work out things for themselves was incredible. There were just so many instances about different things that it was past coincidence. They were a wild pack hound originally and I have seen them work in their unique way with a snake bailed up, seen them work together to open a gate, had one show me where a pup had got out and tracked it. Just so many things, but 'sit, stay' not on your life!

[deepseasnake]

well I know nothing about Affies but it sounds like from here that they have "cat" syndrome, "what are you doing?..........I dont care"

I think there is intellegence that works on both sides of the scale, or like training int. and survival int. and probably much more.

but what about the book thing do you think that a dog could be told to get the blue readers digest instead of the red one, and have never seen either book before, retrieve the red one?

or if I had like a gaurd dog or something and I told the dog to protect an akita that was standing next to a lab could he figure it out? or how about an AB and a Pit?

[gooeydog]

I don't think they can necessarily do things like that, their intelligence seems more "natural" than humans... what I mean by that is that they're good at solving things that have to do with survival and meeting their needs/wants, but when it comes to things that would be trivial if they were living in the wild, they seem to have a hard time "getting" the concept, if they can at all. I don't know if that makes any sense at all though :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

I should probably just keep my mouth shut since I don't have any imperical evidence or an actual article on this.........But I'm not going to. A friend of mine recently read a newspaper article that was about chimpanzees and dogs and which communicates better with people. Apparently researchers (after working with the chimps for years and trying to teach them sign language and everything else they can think of, in an effort to get them to communicate with humans) have decided that dogs are much more effective at communicating with people than chimps ever were. Supposedly the article talked about how extensive a dog's vocabulary can be (how many words and commands etc they can understand) and how effectively they communicate with their body language and voices........... My theory is that chimps have been off playing in the jungle (or wherever else they live) and having fun off on their own all these thousands of years while dogs have been working with us and we've been surviving together in a mutual relationship, so that's why dogs are so much better at communicating with us. That's my two cents

[deepseasnake]

you guys both made excellant points, I hadnt thought about dogs compared to chimps like that but it does make sense.

I typed this out already and lost it so he goes the frusterated version

When we were replaceing our patio after me and my step dad jack hammered all the concrete up we had a huge pile of rubble and dirt so on a saturday the whole family went out to pick the concrete out of the dirt. Nikki was young then and hadnt had Oscar yet so she was bored due to the fact she wasnt getting all of the attention, so she pranced around to try and lure us away from the dirt pile but gave up after awhile. Then she sat down right next to me, watched me dig and started digging with me, at first right on top of and into my hands. We all had a chuckle and let her dig in her little area so she could be part of the family. Well then I relized she really was digging out a piece of concrete (a small one of course) but after she freed it she picked it up and put in the wheel barrow she cleard out 5 hunks of rock before we were done, I was most impressed

Im not sure if I consider it intellegance or not because we did provide a model so in a sense she just followed directions but I was and still am very amazed at that.

[gooeydog]

That kind of thing I think they [i]can[/i] do. We may not be dogs, but they do seem to be able to learn from watching and "imitate" us (at least in a way). Goo used to watch me opening the "toy box" (a rubbermaid tub that I keep all the extra toys in) with great interest. One day I came home late from school and she had managed to open the box, knock it over, and was laying on the floor, playing with one of her toys. I figured maybe the lid just popped off when she knocked it over, so I put everything back in and put the lid on again. As soon as I walked out of my room, I heard her banging her paws up against the box, and I peeked in at her as she grabbed a handle on one side of the box in her mouth, bit down (releasing the lid), lifted, and pulled it off. She then knocked the box over and got the same toy out again. Needless to say, the toy stayed out of the box after that :lol: . Of course, she may have been just chewing on the box trying to get it open and accidentally opened it, then realized how she had done it, but the time I watched, she seemed to know exactly what she was doing :wink: . Also, (this is likely just a coincidence) when we're getting ready to go out on the boat, and I let her loose on the pier to run out and get on it, if the boat's not close enough to the pier for her to jump on, she'll sometimes grab the rope and pull it closer (of course, other times she just stands there looking at me like, "Hello!?... I need some help here..."), then jump on. Like I said though, this may just be her releasing her frustrations since she can't get on the boat, and the rope just happens to be in easy reach. :lol:

[Bensam]

Smart Girl, Nikki. Don't you love the look they get on their faces when they are thinking?
Ben sleeps on the bed with me, started off on a small blanket, then one night when it was cold, I had this persistent tap on my arm. Took me a while to work out what he wanted. Now I know if I get a tap, I have to lift up the blanket so he can get under it.
Sam has a funny tummy, anything cold gives him a cramp, so his meals have the chill taken off in the microwave. Had a friend here one evening, fed the crew, Sam came over and pawed at my leg. "Sam thinks his meal is too hot, have to blow on it" I told her. She picked up the dish, waved it in the air, put it down again. Sam looked at it, her and me with the most comical look, came and pawed my leg again. I picked up the dish, gave it a couple of blows, put it down again. Sam gave my friend a look to say 'that's how you do it', and ate up. Friend nearly fell off her chair.
Last one - we have gone to daylight saving. My lot are fed at 4.30pm - one minute later and they let me know. So how come they adjust to the daylight saving time?
There must be lots of doggy smarts out there, how about sharing?

[deepseasnake]

that was funny the whole hot food thing :lol:

When Oscar (the oversized dumb pup) starts to think it really funny because he will abandon other seemingly subconcious process. example running down the hallway and someone knocks on the door he will turn his head and cock it sideways while still runnning down the hall, soon to be stoped by the incoming wall

or if hes outside and is confused by something sometimes he will pee with holding totally still no leg lift or look around or anything just total concentration at what is at hand, makes for some REALLY funny times :lol:

[gooeydog]

Not a dog, but the cat (the "alpha" of the house) knows when my dad gets up in the morning, and when my parents had a "touch light" in their room, the cat used to go in and bump the light with his nose, bumping it again if my dad ignored him, until eventually it was on its brightest setting and couldn't exactly be ignored. My dad didn't mind much on work days, but the cat still doesn't seem to understand the concept of weekends :lol: .

[bk_blue]

[quote name='Bensam']I have had dogs, particularly the Afghans, which would look at you blankly when trying to get through the basic obedience, sit, etc. but could work out things for their own benefit.[/quote]

Oh yeah it is SO frustrating. BK has been in class 1 (the lowest class) of obedience since August, when we joined. Now there is no problem with the exercises. He could do them all standing on his head if he wanted to. It's getting him to do them all the time [i]when I tell him to[/i]. The instructors have all said it's because he's just too smart and gets bored, and plays up. He's outsmarted all of us at some stage, cheeky little boy needs a partial lobotomy :wink:
When I was young Tessy the cocker would frequently outsmart Nobby the Basset (not hard :wink: ). If Nobby was hogging the heater, Tessy would run outside and bark to distract Nobby, Nobby would get up and go outside, Tessy would run in and steal her spot.

[Bensam]

Sounds like he's part Affie :lol: I took my first Affie to obedience, what a laugh, luckily I knew the instructor, so it wasn't quite so embarrassing.
Got Kush where he would do sit, stay, stand, trouble was he did sit on stand command, everything his way, and I swear he was grinning all the time :oops:

[Bensam]

Gooeydog, would love to have known that cat. Had me giggling sitting here picturing the light going on, heads under pillows, light getting brighter and brighter :D

[eggrolyn1223]

Duck knows how to open the door..she lifts her front legs off and sticks it on the knob, and it opened...kind of.. :wink: I was playing the piano one day, and Duck was just lying there on the floor.And then she got up and jumped up to press the keys(I wasn't sitting there anymore and she didnt seem surprised when the piano made a sound, so I think she knew what she was doing) :o

[eric]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that dogs are one of the few animals that understand pointing, i.e: when you point to something they look in that direction.

A few years ago there was a documentary about dogs and this lady was commenting about the intelligence of dogs. I'm paraphrasing a bit here, but she said something along the lines that dogs:

"Imagine taking a baby and placing it with aliens, who have completely alien rules and ways of doing things, and communicate not just in a different language but in a completely manner (touch vs talking). Seems incredible, and yet that's what we do with puppies. The amazing thing is that they learn to understand us, and the rules we impose on them"

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='eric']I seem to remember reading somewhere that dogs are one of the few animals that understand pointing, i.e: when you point to something they look in that direction....

[/quote]

My dogs don't understand that. They just stare at me like, HUH??? :oops:

[eric]

Nah, they're probably just looking at you thinking "Why don't *YOU* get it" or "I'm fine here, I don't want to go over there". :D

[quote name='gigishiba'][quote name='eric']I seem to remember reading somewhere that dogs are one of the few animals that understand pointing, i.e: when you point to something they look in that direction....

[/quote]

My dogs don't understand that. They just stare at me like, HUH??? :oops:[/quote]