What to do with a young, agressive dog?

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote]I don't want to give her back to her breeder, not only for my sake but also because she is very attached to me and gets stressed even if I'm only gone a day.[/quote]

Okay I am going to respond to this before I get sick... At this moment I do not care who the alpha is... It is right either Lily is going to get hurt or Lily is going to hurt your brother... It may not be a small bite either..
You say she gets stressed over you leaving...WELL how do you think she feels with someone chasing her around the yard and yelling and kicking her... That is worse than you leaving. Sometimes you HAVE to put your feelings aside and think about what is good for her.. Then he runs around trying to get one dog against the other and you are wondering why the uproar between the two??? I would say their Environment... How can you leave YOUR responsibilities on them (family) to watch out for Lily and Tessa?? You should be there looking out for them, protecting them!
I know this is harsh but someone needs to speak for Lily, the one who is chased and kicked and hollared at... :(
Call the breeder to watch Lily until you get straightened out... It is fair and you know it.... You get a break to go out and party with friends... Let her have a break free from all of the hollaring and kicking and chasing :-?

[Guest roo]

I agree with everything you have said Jacsmom.

Aroura, we all only have lilys best intentions at heart here,
at least contact the breeder. please :cry:

[Guest Anonymous]

This may have happened Mei-Mei I agree.. Stability does need to occur and I feel it cannot happen in the household due to a number of things some beyond Aroura's control... This is where she has to step in and think of Lily and Tessa.. :wink:

[Hobbit]

Okay....maybe this is because this has been the week for lame excuses at why some people allow their dog to be tortured, then dump the dog because it's no longer convenient. --- totally not related to anyone here, just a gripe at something that happened elsewhere.


BUT, while the shoe is fitting. Aroura, if this upsets you -- so be it. How dare you say you love Lilly and then allow her to be tortured, kicked, chased, stuff thrown at her? Just who do YOU think you are? She deserves better than. Just imagine how she feels --- when you leave with friends to go *party* and leave for hours, leaving her alone for hours >> she is wondering when your brother will come and terrorize her, hurt her, chastize her, torture her --- and being the obedient dog that she is...won't take up for herself (but will get enough one day and bite him out of fear). She'll be looking for you to protect her --- while you are off drinking and laughing and having fun......she is miserable, lonely and sad.


Why do people do this? Why are some people so self-centered and selfish? Why put the poor dog thru H*LL for YOUR own self satisfaction of just having a dog.

If you say you love your dog, then do what is best for the dog!!

[Guest Anonymous]

DITTO!

[anne3149]

Yessir, I agree.

[Aroura]

[quote name='Hobbit']If he truly does have a medical condition, then what's going to stop him from seriously injuring the dogs? Or worse, another person?

Aroura --- you have given conflicting stories several times.[/quote]

Are you accusing me of lying? Why would I lie about a thing like that? Yeah, maybe he could injure another person, whats going to stop him, I don't know? Are you suggesting we lock him up in a mental institution? Or even prison, just because he happend to be born with this disease? I think you need to get yourself a life!!! Stop judging, if you want to judge people stay away from me, I don't want to listen to your shallowness.

Hobbit, I have no time or patience for your bitching and lack of empathy. :evil:

For those who aren't questioning my honesty etc, I have found someone who could probably take her if I can't sort out anything better. He lives just around the corner and has a lovely 18month old Lab who he loves very much.

The breeder lives out of town, she has a lot of dogs and although I'm sure she'd be more than willing to help out I wouldn't want to put that upon her.

For everyone who thinks I'm a cruel, heartless bitch who doesn't give a shit about my dog, you can all go to hell. I only realized about 2-3 days ago that this was happening, what do you expect me to preform a miracle and have her somewhere else just like that? I'm not a fucking miracle worker! If you must know over the past day or two, since I have found out about this, I have been thinking of finding somewhere else to live, not just thinking about it but actually going out of my way to find people to move out with, but does anyone know how hard it is for a 20 year old with no references, dogs, cats, rats etc to find a house AND a group of people to move out with?

Quite obviously I'm not going to just sit back and watch this happen, so why is everybody making out like I am?

Oh, and I'm so sorry for the inconveniece to all the people who have said my storys are inconsistant, you obviously have had your perfect little lives without so much as a single little problem which have made your circumstances change from one day to the next, so I'm sorry my life is such a mess :evil:

[Guest roo]

Aroura,
Please stop your cursing :o
Yes you are a 20 year old who is having big problems.

We are trying to help , i am sure everyone here does not have a perfect little life, we have all had different problems as we grew up, i am afraid that is life :lol: And even when you are a big grown up problems still occur.
I am trying to look at this two ways, you say you dont want to put on the breeder, in the past you have said that you got lily from an excellent breeder, let me assure you, you will not be putting on the breeder at all.
it would be far better for Lily to go back to where she came from for a period of time than to put her into a new home for a period of time.
How confusing would that be to still keep seeing her mum who then walks away and leaves her, again and again and again.
I would say that most dogs who return to their breeders even for a very short time, settle in almost immediately, somehow they know that they are home.
Did lily's breeder not state if anything happened or at any time she was
needing space that she should return to her.
Lily may be your dog, your best friend, your everything, but somewhere
down the line she will aways be the breeders responsibility, she gave her life, she let you have her, but she will aways be one of her babies.

Roo

[Aroura]

I am really sorry about my cursing, I was just really angry and stressed when I wrote the post.... not only at certain people calling me "selfish" and saying that I don't care about Lily, but also because I am the one who owns her, so of course I feel bad about it and that I have to watch her go through it, I love her with all my heart and the last thing I want is for people saying that I don't care about her!!!
Roo, I can see your point, but I just don't think I could just leave her at the breeders for the weeks or months it may take to sort the situation out. She is a good breeder who's name is known throughout Australia, and as I said before I've no doubt she'd take her back, but I would much rather leave her at my friends house where I could visit her morning, noon and night, walk her every day and take her to obedience every week when it starts up again etc. Do you see where I'm coming from?
As for Hobbit, Hobbit did say some rather uncalled for things. Put yourself in my shoes and then see if I'm still such a cold hearted person? Remember I only just found out the other day and I [i]am[/i] trying to find the best alternative situation, I can't just click my fingers and make miracles happen!
Mei Mei, I really do hope for your sake that your son never turns nasty to your dog, from what I understand of autism its not likely that he will turn against her in the same kind of way.
Let me just remind everyone that schizzophrenia is one of those diseases that is inconsistant, one day you will be feeling fine, the next you will feel the world is out to get you, or in Willems case, the dog. I think the reason he thinks she hates him etc is because she watches him garden and then pulls out the plants he has just planted. I have told him many times to bring Lily in when he's gardening if that bothers him, but its just hard for me to control the whole situation.
I will have a chat to mum about his medication though, he's seemed worse over the past few days. I think maybe he's got his hands on some pot, it makes him worse, but its impossible for us to wipe out everyone who deals with it in armidale so although we have managed to make sure he very very rarely gets it, he still occasionally gets some I think. :evil:

[Guest Anonymous]

Aroura what about when he was trying to get Tessa to attack Lilly?? That was in the middle of Nov.... I thought he was in jail... The contradictions are numerous...She is in the house she is out, she is in she is out... I realize this is not your house... and you cannot control your brother....but what you can control is how your dogs are treated and that is what everyone here is concerned with... You brought about that concern yourself! You told us what was going on time and time again...Which is fine and we support you but do not act like this when we respond the way we did........You would do the same if someone came on this board and said their dog was going through what Lily is... I know you would!

[corgilady]

I have not read this whole thread, rather skimmed it; so I am sure that I'm missing something. HOWEVER....aurora.... just a side note: when you are asking people here to "put yourself in my shoes".... most of them can't. Living with a schizophrenic person is something that most people cannot begin to comprehend. The stress alone will make you ill, if not kill you! Of course you cannot institutionalize him, and even on the best meds there will be bad times. It is good to come here for support and discussion, but your situation will remain YOURS. In a certain sense, no one here will understand it.

I think the thread started about 2 dogs fighting, have we strayed from the topic?

[bk_blue]

Ok, I am just going to say in Aroura's defence-this is pretty off topic, sorry- that A LOT of Aussies do not leave home until they are in their late 20s. There are kids from the country who leave at 17-18 to study in the unis in the big cities, but a lot of us will stay as long as we can. There was actually an article in The Age (newspaper) about the growing trend of typical Anglo 20somethings (I differentiate, mainly because I know and there are a lot of young people of "ethnic" ie. Italian, Greek etc background who stay at home until they're married or until their parents die and they get the house. This is NOT uncommon, I know a 42yo Greek male who lives at home! I also know many of our patients, 90% of whom come from a Mediterranean/Middle Eastern background, who are still at home in their 20s and 30s) staying at home until they want to go, and parents are happy to have them around. We simply don't feel the need to move out if we are fortunate enough to have supportive, understanding parents who we get on with, or parents who tolerate us :wink: . Most of my friends in their late teens-mid-20s still live at home (except those from the country), most of them work part time and study full time, there are some that don't work though, they're very lucky because their parents support them while they study. A ridiculous percentage of students who live away from home to study full time and also work because they have to, something like 60%, live below the poverty line. It's unacceptable but of course the govt doesn't see the need to increase student benefits, even though we work 30 hours a week and are supposed to study 5 days a week too, and employers will fire you or threaten you with sacking if you have to miss work because of exams. This is not strictly relevant, but it does go to some lengths to explain why so many of us stay at home- it's too expensive and too stressful to move out, in many cases.

[anne3149]

bk blue said it all, that's exactly the way it is in Australia. I think 18 is a bit young to be living away from home and how do you do it anyway. Most are still students at 20.
I like the European idea of living at home with parents until marriage. It makes for a really close family unit (providing the kids get married prior to turning 40 of course) Thid kids get to know their parents from an adult perspective and parents get to see their kids becoming adults and seeing them cope with adult life.

[Guest Anonymous]

WOW. :o

Umm...I couldn't handle my mom that long. I'm 31 and she still drives me nuts. :roll:

I was out at 18 and then back at 20 and out again at 21 for good.

Not sure how you guys over there do it. My mom would cause me to have a mental break down if I lived with her that long!

[bk_blue]

[quote name='sashagirl']I never said I didn't have loving and supportive parents... My parents helped me a lot when I first moved out. I did it, because I went to school full time, and I had a full time job from 16 on. I have worked everyday since. I got a job on my 16th birthday. (Which is when you are allowed to start working in the US) I moved out, because I wanted my freedom. I was ready to grow up and take on the world. I guess it comes down to the individual. [/quote]

Sash, I wasn't saying your parents were horrible or anything. I was merely pointing out the cultural differences between our two countries. Even though most of the time (especially when you look at international politics) I think we are just trying to be the US's dopey little sidekick, we are actually quite different. This is not meant to be a slant on you or your family at all. :wink:
That's pretty amazing working and studying full time! I know a fully qualified chef who's 18 and he did his apprenticeship and his HSC (NSW equvalent of final yr high school) in the same year... with not much sleep in between... now not many people would do that here, but he is an example.
With regards to Aroura, ok, well you know a bit about her home life. Some of us can just push it aside and get on with things, others can get a little depressed over it and that makes us want to just wallow for a while. I don't think there's anything wrong with that so long as you can sort yourself out eventually. At least she is working now and maybe that will help her move out, get some cash together, help her look after her dogs better. Just quietly I wouldn't put up with it either, but everyone's different, as you pointed out. So let's hope it all gets sorted before someone gets hurt. 8)

[Aroura]

First I want to say thank you to Corgi, BK, anne and stargaze.
Corgi, yes, you are so right about other people not being able to understand what its like living with a schizophrenic. Some times it drives you nuts, other times you just want to cry... this poor boy, my brother, with these horrible voices in his head that just wont leave him alone. How much torture is he in? Yes, he does go through his bad stages where I am scared to even breathe, but the rest of the time he is like this scared little boy trapped inside this 21 year olds body, trying to make sence of the world. He does love Lily, I can see it when he plays with her, but yes, he also has these voices telling him that she's evil at times. I havn't seen him chasing her for a few days now, I was a little reluctant to say that because I know some people in here will just accuse me of lying and changing the story for it, but its true. Just because my story changes as my life drastically changes every week, does not mean I'm lying!!! :o
BK and anne, thanks for explaining that, it means I don't have to!
To everyone who says that they would be looking for a way out, as you may remember I did find a way out at the beggining of the year. That fell through because it was a housing commision house that I was minding and the girl who 'owned' it had to hand the keys back in asking for a transfer. So then I moved into another house with friends, and that was absolutly chaotic. I moved in only asking one thing - that the dogs were allowed in at least my room. That worked out for a while, well from the dogs point of view... I was only there for them because living there for me was hell. I wont go into detail about the constant mess in that house and how it was driving me crazy as I like everything neat and tidey etc. The people I lived with smoked weed all day (and no sash, that wasn't my weed he got into, I don't smoke the stuff, just because I hear something and quote it doesn't mean I take it as gospel) and were generally the lazyest people I've ever met.
So I had no choice but to move back home, and believe me, I've been trying to find a way out ever since but do you have any idea how hard it is to not only find people to move out with, but also to find an affordable house with a backyard with no references?
Sash, I'm glad for you that you have a job and yadda yadda yadda... I didn't get a job when I'm younger and here in Aus its almost impossible to get a job after the age of 18 without previous experience. Yes, I did get accepted for a job, and it was a good job too but then when I did the medical they wouldn't let me work there because of my back. Do you know how bad I felt about that??? It was terrible, and I want a job more than anything and I don't need people judging me because I don't have one, its not by choice I don't have a job.
I just started job training yesterday at the pub, its going to be for three weeks and then hopefully they will give me a job from it (I was talking to the staff last night and they all seemed to think it would be great if I worked there too). So maybe I will have a job soon, I don't know.
Stargaze, thanks for being concerned. You don't have to worry about me taking heaps of drugs to forget whats going on, but I do admit that I drink to get away from things. The stress of living in this house gets to me so much that sometimes I just can't stand being here, it drives me nuts. I'm not neglecting my dogs, simply getting away from my family. I know that dad looks after Lily and Tess like they are his, so by no means are they being neglected, he even sneaks them into my room when mums not looking so when I get home I see my babys sleeping on my bed :wink: Its not like I go out for weeks on end, by the time I leave I've usually already fed and said goodnite to the dogs anyway and I get home in time to feed and play with them in the morning, so its almost like I'm not gone at all.

Anyway, besides all that, I thought this was a forum to talk about dogs, not to mock and belittle those who are worse off than you. Maybe I was wrong.

[Aroura]

Thanks for your concern stargaze. I was a mess two years ago, going out every night of the week, having all nighters and never sleeping. Now I try to save going out for weekends or special occasions, such as birthdays etc. I never ring my friends just wanting to go out, I always wait for them to ring me, and if they don't I just stay home. I know when to stop drinking and have a lot of control when I'm drunk compared to everyone else I know so although I go out I never get myself in trouble. I'm hopefully going to uni next year, so, although everyone see's it as a chance for a 5 year non stop party I think it will stop me going out etc because I'm just going to have to study all the time!
Anyway, thanks again, just thought I'd let you know that I'm not that bad anymore!!!!