my puppy stalks me

[Guest Anonymous]

I've had a few puppies and haven't seen this behaviour before at least to this extent. When he is loose in the yard and i am out watching him or playing with him. He crouches down (no the playing crouch but a little higher), stands completely still and stares at me... it's very spooky. He doesn't move for a while then all of a sudden he runs toward me and jumps on me or bites onto my clothes. I have tried to discourage this by saying NO when i see him in this stance but then he usually runs toward me when i say NO or I stop playing with him all together. I don't encourage the rough play, but fetch quickly becomes rough play, so i stop the play all together.

For the first time he has started to scare me. He is getting quite big. He is 4 months old (Great Dane/Rottie) and is about 45 lbs now.

Has anyone ever experienced this stalking behaviour? if so, how did you handle it?

If you follow my posts at all this is not the first post I posted regarding this puppy being aggressive and trying to asert dominance.

Thanks for any suggestions or feedback!

[Guest Anonymous]

here's his picture... he looks so innocent!

[img]http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/pubimage.asp?id_=654346[/img]

[Carolk9s]

I've missed some of your posts so don't know if this has been suggested. Has your pup had some basic obedience training? He's not too young at all. Some positive training to impress upon him that obeying you and taking cues from you is a GOOD thing.
My belgian boy used to do that, he would stare, stalk, rush, nip and be gone before I could even yelp. He grew out of it but not soon enough for my mom! She was ready to hang him from a tree. I'm not sure about suggestion tho, racking my brain. Maybe having a toy or ball handy, set him up for this behaviour, when he starts your way, throw the ball to redirect his attention. If he even LOOKS at the ball, just turns his attention, say GOOD DOG in a happy tone. Do it again. Maybe this will build a new behaviour to replace the one you don't want.
Alternatively, a negative reinforcer might be to put him in a 'time out'. You are out playing/interacting with him, he does his raging bull thing, playtime is over. You very calmly while using a happy tone take him inside and crate him or in some other way restrict his movement. 'Gee isn't this great baby you are going to have a time out to think about running me down in the ground, there ya go in your crate see ya later'. Walk away. Don't fuss at him. Let him stew for about 10 minutes. Then calmly let him out. The next time he decides to bulldoze you, happily and calmly put in up for 20 minutes. They're smart critters, he will start to understand that charging you puts an END to playtime. You don't need to fuss at him, in his mind he's just playing rough like he might with another dog.
Good luck!

[deepseasnake]

I have never seen this before so I really have no idea but heres what I think

that is a behavior I WISH my dogs would have, I LOVE to play rough with them, even though I always win and usually I get to rough and have to call them back, and do the "ohh its okay" and then they come back for hugs and are all better thereafter, but hey thats goldens for ya all love no wrestle.
I would tend to think its his way of playing with you. I would get down and crouched when he does, and rush eachother. Hit low so he falls over then come back around on top of the downed dog to control the dogs limbs, use your hands to grab his legs, make sure you dont make any joints go the wrong way though and put your face into his neck like you would if in a dog fight then growl, grrrr, grrrr, this will make him growl, right before he stops wrestling back jump off him, set up, and go again. this is very close to my favorite game to play with my dogs, they love it, especially smooshed face dogs. like I said the retreivers will play for a couple rounds and really like it but then think I'm mad at them, funny dogs.
it sounds to me like you could have a fun doggy moment here. :D
I wish mine would stalk me :cry:

[Guest Anonymous]

My boyfriend plays with him in funny ways (to me anyway)... this is actually the first dog he has ever been close to. He will actually bite him back or play tug of war with a cloth with his mouth too. I actually discorage it b/c i don't like it b/c the dog ends up hurting me and I don't want him to try this with the children around. Even when he runs into me he can cause bruises. So I am bruised and scratched enough. A friend of mine actually had her leg broken by her dog running into her.

Maybe i'm a wimp but i like to play fetch and other games that don't require hurting me... :lol:

Next time maybe you should get a more aggressive dog and I will get a golden... actually I have a golden mix also (see picture under name on left). He actually also growled at my dad the other day when my dad asked him to get out of a chair and go to bed. Maybe it's me!

[deepseasnake]

I love to act like a dog with the dogs bite, scratch, howl, bark I do it all it;s like I'm contacting my animal instinct or something.

Malina tried playing (playing like I play) with oscar once, and she was just kinda standing there getting him excited but not really playing. so I told her she needed to get on her knees and blow in his face (that is my wrestle command) so she blew into his big retreiver smile and before she could draw in her next breath she had been flattened and oscar had her pinned, she couldnt move her arms legs or head, and oscar just kept licking her face over and over and over, I could practically hear him thinking "I won I won I won I won I won I won" I was laughing so hard I couldnt get up to help her for a couple seconds so she was just pinned taking the onslought of slobber like a champ......oh that is a mental picture I'll never forget

I think its a healthy thing for a man to have a large dog to compete in full contact sports with. its very medicating for both man and animal and brings us together like nothing else :D

[Guest Anonymous]

oh i forgot that is the other thing my boyfriend does is blow in his face or on his stomach. Now all he has to do is blow in the air and the puppy gets excited. I have asked him to stop b/c from everything i have heard it makes him more aggressive... which it sounds like you like. But it can be dangerous. My boyfriend got bite on the nose. I told him if he gets bite he has to pay for hospital bills and take himself... He also bite him on the arm once. I think it all depends on your dog and how aggressive they are. With mine I think he takes it too far and I have to work on making sure he (the puppy and my boyfriend) doesn't hurt anyone. They both seem to have fun so I always feel that I am the mean one. After my boyfriend was bite he has mellowed out a bit.

But it sounds like you have a great relationship with your dog and have fun with them.

[Carolk9s]

To quote "If you follow my posts at all this is not the first post I posted regarding this puppy being aggressive and trying to asert dominance. "

I don't know deep, this sounds a bit more than puppy/rough play. I'm all for active rough play as long as the dog above all has respect for you as the alpha and does not try to run over top of you. The dog has to clearly understand 'enough' so that if he starts getting a bit TOO wired and pushy you can tell him to 'back it down' a notch. This dog is already pretty darned big and will be huge full grown. If at 4 months he's pushing for a dominant position, what will he be like at 12 or 18 months? Of course all pups test the waters, he's big enough to part them! Pup has to learn that rough play with one person does not mean rough play ok with another. At 4 months he does not have total control over his gangly body and might even hurt someone without intention, especially children. He certainly cannot be allowed to stalk and rush children.

[deepseasnake]

I cant agree with you more carol, my dog and me definatly have stop commands and actually all I usually have to do is stop, and be completely still, then oscar and nikki relize I'm not playing anymore and usually start at eachother.

I didn't read the other posts in regaurd to this dog so maybe there is an issue here.
I cant stress how important it is to be alpha in these wrestling matches, but since I always win the dog knows even though we are playing that I'm still boss. givin golden retreivers aren't known for challenging your alpha status, it does still happen and my oscar did it frequently until about 18 months. I enjoy the challenge because it means I get to roll in the mud with my dog and after about half a second of my loud growling biting and lifting the dog up, the tension is dropped and it goes right back to game status. Now I know this is much more dangerous to do with my friends akita as puff (the akita) will bite you first thing, she has no tolerance for contact. If your too close the teeth come out.
when I scolded this dog it was fast and furious against the wall or floor and that respect was givin to me.
If your dog is too rough with you then yes work on calming him down communicate to him that dad plays mom pets and after some training the dog should relize who does what in the house.

but you do have a big dog and he is gonna get bigger, so be ready to be knocked around and beat up a little. its in the nature of the dog to be excited and love you. just ask newfiemom about the shades of purple her legs are :lol:

dont ever play with him like your boyfriend does be consistant, and dont let him bother you when you are doing something, cooking, cleaning, tring to get out the door. make your boyfriend play rough as much as you possibly can make him, cuz the dog loves it. Dont worry the dog will run out of steem this way to.

my dogs and the other dogs I'm around know when its playtime and when its not (not including the akitas) and none of our dogs have ever bit anyone. a few nips at the dog park but they were always merrited. if you are worried that the dog might bite than stop everything and reevaluate. I have suffered a few bite here and there while playing, but only a few have drawn blood and have never required medical attention. All these "play" bites were my fault (I'm not implying you said otherwise, just telling you my view) as I am the one who wound the dog up. I do not consider them real bites because there was no visiousness behind any of them, remember we have alot more to play with than our dogs and we always say dont bite so its like were taking away both their hands. at least thats how I look at it when I get bit. also it gives me an idea of how excited one must get before he forgets the basics this is usefull when raising pups as you can watch their maturity come along

[deepseasnake]

my last was long and a bit garbled so sorry if it doesnt read smooth :oops:

[Guest Anonymous]

thanks for the info. I have had a lot of experience with large dogs. I've kept my parents Newfoundland and 100 lb German Shepherd months at a time. the Newfoundland wouldn't hurt a fly, so his size was never an issue unless he sat on you by accident which sometimes happened.

I also don't blame him for the biting it was him playing and i realize that. He never really acted vicous until this new stalking thing seems kind of scarey. He just lost two of his long teeth so right now his bites should hurt less for a little bit. I'm trying to work with him to make sure he understand the different biting pressures.. the light grabing vs. breaking skin. He is getting better and mainly just grabs with his mouth now. So less bite marks.

[deepseasnake]

for the most part just sounds like a pup who is testing his boundries, he's a good looking dog thats for sure. do you feed him BARF?

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='deepseasnake']for the most part just sounds like a pup who is testing his boundries, he's a good looking dog thats for sure. do you feed him BARF?[/quote]

I feed him a combination of dry food, cooked chicken and rice and raw chicken and sometimes cooked or raw eggs. I basically feed him what I can afford. Money is tight.

[deepseasnake]

sounds alot better than what I see being fed to the animals around here. I want to feed my dogs BARF someday too when I can afford it

[usmcbyrd]

i dont want to come off like im sticking my 2 sense in but it kind of sounds like he doesnt know exactly who the boss is (i mean that in a way not to step on your toes). maybe its time to show him your can be the alpha dog too. if that doesnt work i have obtained some kick butt recipes.

[deepseasnake]

like lime marmelade? :D

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='usmcbyrd']i dont want to come off like im sticking my 2 sense in but it kind of sounds like he doesnt know exactly who the boss is (i mean that in a way not to step on your toes). maybe its time to show him your can be the alpha dog too. if that doesnt work i have obtained some kick butt recipes.[/quote]

You're not stepping on my toes... i think you are most likely right. He is always testing me.... sitting on me, putting his toes on me to chew on on top of me... so i am stopping that behaviour.

if you have some of those recipes pls educate me.

[deepseasnake]

I would play rough with him, show him that you can throw him around and that he cant do anything about it, you can make it fun for both of you but you'll get a little scratched up :D

I think playing is very important in establishing an Alpha bond I mean look at pups they wrestle right until they leave eachother

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='abusser']I've had a few puppies and haven't seen this behaviour before at least to this extent. When he is loose in the yard and i am out watching him or playing with him. He crouches down (no the playing crouch but a little higher), stands completely still and stares at me... it's very spooky. He doesn't move for a while then all of a sudden he runs toward me and jumps on me or bites onto my clothes. I have tried to discourage this by saying NO when i see him in this stance but then he usually runs toward me when i say NO or I stop playing with him all together. I don't encourage the rough play, but fetch quickly becomes rough play, so i stop the play all together.

For the first time he has started to scare me. He is getting quite big. He is 4 months old (Great Dane/Rottie) and is about 45 lbs now.

Has anyone ever experienced this stalking behaviour? if so, how did you handle it?

If you follow my posts at all this is not the first post I posted regarding this puppy being aggressive and trying to asert dominance.

Thanks for any suggestions or feedback![/quote]


Having herding bred dogs, especially Kelpies and Border Collies this kind of stalking behaviour is common around our house. If a person is not familiar with this sort of behaviour it does scare the willy's out of them.

Upfront...I have only owned one Dane in my life. She was the sweetest dog ever and did not display this behaviour. She was a rescue. The only Rottie I ever owned, a friend asked me if I could keep her while she was on vacation --- she MOVED while on vacation, thus the Rotty became ours until she passed away at old age. She did not display this behaviour either.

BUT, I do know dog behaviour from many years of experience.

Tell us exactly what he looks like when he starts stalking. Is his tail up and curled, or low? Are his lips pulled tight or normal? Are his pupils normal or dilated (open)?

This could either be: play or aggression. Without seeing it first hand, it's hard to know. From your post -- you were playing and it makes me think he is just playing -- so, lets say it's play. He views you as his playmate/packmate, this is how puppies play. One takes the role of prey, the other is the preditor. Unfortunately...guess which one you are :wink: ? Right, you are the prey (because he feels that he is the dominant one). If you get in the "stalk" stance to stalk him, watch him...he will get still, his eyes will dialate, and he may move them from side to side and he will start to lick his lips; lip licking this time it means he's nervous, because he doesn't know what to do or what you are going to do. Lip licking can also mean a pleasureable experience. By you stalking him, you are now the preditor and he is the prey --- thus YOU are dominant. This could also backfire, because if he is a truly dominant dog, he's going to take great offense at this and retaliate. Let's say he says -- okay, I give up. His tail will start to wag and his expression will soften. If he says -- you just asked for a butt kicking, IMEDIATELY soften your stance (just stand up straight) and redirect his attention with a yummy snack. You don't want to get into a dominance fight with him at this stage, because you're going to end up getting dog bit. There are other ways to establish dominance without a big fight.

Our Kelpie pups stalk-play all the time. With their tail held low, they start sneaking, almost crawling on the ground, stalking, first slowly walking all crouched down then faster and faster and then pounce on the other pup -- they are just playing.

On the other hand, when they are working the livestock --- they revert to preditor - prey role playing.

Okay, now: when a dog stalks another dog to fight. The tail is held high and curled, they try to look as big as possible, head may be up or level with an intense look and lips are tight. Their pupils are wide open and they just have a look of "fight". It's something that you KNOW what they are thinking. I know what ours are thinking and put a stop to this imediately to avoid a dog fight. As much as I would love to tell you that everything is heavenly at our house --- it's not. Different dogs with different attitudes and temperment. They are just like people, some like each other and some absolutely hate each other.

I can try to get some pictures of our Kelpies with the play-stalk if this will help you to see what I'm talking about.

Personally, I can't see the Rotty in your dog. He is a beautiful color.

I think he is playing because he views you as his playmate, not the alpha dog. You have a higher voice and that is viewed as a squealy, submissive pup (no offense here...just the facts). You smell different, --- okay you guys stop laughing -- it's true. Men and women smell different -- it's the hormone thing. Dominance has alot to do with body language. You cuddle him, smooch on him, carry him around (okay, used to before he was so big), you changed his diapers and wiped his mouth ---- so he thinks how could she possibly be dominant because SHE does everything that I ask her to do. I bet you let him walk in front of him sometimes? Does he cut you off when walking? Does he walk in front, cut you off, get in front, and go out the door first? He's slowly taking over, girlfriend :wink: :wink: !! It's just natural. You will probably have to establish your role every day with him. It's just his breeding. Don't let him have the upper hand on you.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='deepseasnake']I would play rough with him, show him that you can throw him around and that he cant do anything about it, you can make it fun for both of you but you'll get a little scratched up :D

I think playing is very important in establishing an Alpha bond I mean look at pups they wrestle right until they leave eachother[/quote]

I do hold him down by the scruff of his neck and sometimes hold his mouth shut, this works some of the time. But sometimes it backfires and it only makes him madder. It's getting harder and harder for me to actually win. He pretty strong already. He had a tick the other day and it takes 2 of us to hold him down and another to get the tick.

[corgilady]

[quote name='usmcbyrd'] if that doesnt work i have obtained some kick butt recipes.[/quote]

[color=blue]UH-OH. Is this testosterone again???????[/color]

Just joking guys -- OUCH ! Hey stop throwing things!

:D Corgilady

[deepseasnake]

hobbit you have alot of insight, that was a very nice read for me. I never knew some of those behaviors were dominant related. makes total sense know, thank you and[size=6][color=red][b] please please become a member![/b][/color][/size]

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='deepseasnake']hobbit you have alot of insight, that was a very nice read for me. I never knew some of those behaviors were dominant related. makes total sense know, thank you and[size=6][color=red][b] please please become a member![/b][/color][/size][/quote]


Hey thanks. It's because I was never socialized as a child and I bite...so, I'm not allowed to be around people. My only friends growing up were a Nubian goat named, "Puppy", an English Springer Spaniel named, "Suzie", a Jenny named, "Jenny" and a horse named, "Maude". We had lots of other livestock, but we weren't close.

Now, we live so far in the country that....well....the dogs, and other livestock are still my only friends. All that translates into...I have no life but the dogs and livestock.

It's amazing what you can learn if you just stop and watch the animals. Example: cows have funerals. Yeah, really. When a calf is borned all the other cows come around and see the new borned baby. As the baby calves are growing up, they are left with a sitter --- usually a barren cow or an experienced mother cow. Some first time heifers won't allow anyone to baby sit their calf...that wears off, by the next year --- her baby is right there in calf day-care. When a cow or calf dies, every one (all the herd) gather around and pay their respects --- it's quite heartbreaking actually. Some mother cows grieve for weeks over their dead calf. We used to remove the calf but that doesn't allow her to grieve and it really causes stress problems. So now, we just let let her grieve as long as she wants and we take her food and water (it's a pain in the butt, but she isn't as stressed like she'd be if we took and disposed of the calf).

I'm not a trainer by any means.....I manage them (the dogs). They don't need "trained", they need managing. They know exactly what they are doing, why they are doing it and it's up to us to nurture and guide them in the right direction.

I'm not proof reading this...I'm opting to just close and get some sleep so, please excuse the typo's.

[deepseasnake]

hey whatever floats your boat man,

from the looks we are both animal lovers you just have more room than I do :D keep that info coming I'm writing it all to memory and, maybe one of these days when I get a dog problem I'll take your approach and see what happens :D

Anyway I'd like to see you register as would everyone else on this board, and YES I AM SPEAKING FOR EVERYONE! hehe come be part of the gang :D

have any snakes? geckos? or other herps?

[bk_blue]

Yeah, "join us" *zombie glint in eyes* :D
I didn't know that about cows, that was really really interesting!