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American Indian Dogs and Native American dogs


Guest Anonymous

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Guest Anonymous

I am looking into purchasing a pup and I am confused about the differences. Are these actually a breed, or is someone just trying to cover up the fact that these are Wolf dogs and coyote crosses..Does anyone have any of these dogs, and what do you think of them?

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Guest Anonymous

I think crossing a wolf with a dog is the dumbest thing anyone has ever done with dogs. Even though dogs are bred down from wolves the cross is too close. They are very dangerous, trained or not. I would never recommend owning one.

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Guest Anonymous

I agree! Go quickly in the other direction if offered a cross between a dog and a wild animal.

Dogs are wonderful. Wolves are too. In spite of the Little Red Riding Hood stories etc...wolves are not known for attacking people...BUT...when you cross them with a dog you can a time bomb.

They really do not fit in anywhere...they are not a domecticated animal...and yet they are not totally wild. I am sure their are individual cases where they have been fine...but would not take the chance.

If you want the look...try a malamute.

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Guest Anonymous

Indian dogs? Are they wolfdogs or coyote crosses? This is what I am trying to find out...Both breeders (completely different looking dogs, slightly different names too) claim that there is no wolf blood in their animals..One of the breeders is very much against wolf dog breeding of any kind, so I believe him, the other breeder used to breed wolf dog crosses at one time. Both breeders are claiming their animals as rare breeds. I have nothing against wolf dogs, and do not wish to get into a debate about how bad they are. I just don't want one, and I heard that these Indian Dogs are good pets... I am interested in hearing from people who may own indian dogs, and get their opinions on the breed. I don't want to address hybrid issues, I already know how people feel about hybrids. SO, IS any one familiar with American Indian Dogs or Native AMerican Indian Dogs? This is the info that I am requesting.

THank you

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Guest Anonymous

here are pix of both Indian dogs and american indian dogs..what do ya think?

[url]http://www.dogomania.com/gallery/breeds/breed24/[/url]

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Guest Anonymous

Hmmmm.they look like they might have some malamute or shepard in them....and do have a wolf look too.

Interesting question....would love to hear what others have to say...and think I will do a little research too.

Have you been able to find out anything about them elsewhere on the internet?

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Guest Anonymous

I typed American Indian Dogs into search and came up with a site run by a person named LaFlamme. Per what they say, the dogs do have coyote blood or did at some point in their development.

good site....and lots of good info...the dogs pictured looked a bit different from the one you showed.

really suggest you go to that site...can't find...let me know and I will go back and get the address.

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Guest Anonymous

Try at: [url]http://www.indiandogs.com[/url]

I'm also interested about American Indian Dogs, but I definetly do not have yet enough information about this breed. And I believe that it would be too expensive for me to bring an individual of this breed to Finland. So I just have to abide by dreaming... :smile:

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Guest Anonymous

I have only recently heard about the american indian dog, but the native american dog i have researched, and it is a real dog. I used to own one--i beleive it to be one--she had all the characteristics and was even found in the wild. Her temperment was exactly as it was supposed to be. A GREAT DOG.

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Guest Anonymous

Look like Malamutes or Huskies to me. Which are American Indians. Maybe these breeders are trying to pull a fast one and just not give the real name of the breed. Have you seen any registration papers? If so, what do they say?

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They are a breed, I saw a documentary on them and I wouldn't reccomend one as a pet unless you have ALOT of time to spend with it and have spent extensive time researching dog psycology as they ARE wild dogs and therefore have wild characteristics which could lead to the dog seriously maiming someone. I don't mean to put you off, but I would give exactly the same advice to someone considering a dingo or a wolf. Wild dogs dont take well to captivity.
Luv Jeanne

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  • 2 years later...

Karen (owner of Majestic view and founder of the NAID) started out breeding high wolf percentage wolfdogs (wolf hybrids). Michigan later banned wolfdogs. To keep her business up, Karen changed the names of her wolfdogs to "Native American Indian Dogs." She kept her low wolf content animals and shot most of the high content ones and sold their pelts (a few were sent off to rescue, although it is rumored that she may still have a few high percentage wolfdogs). She inbred the low wolf content ones to get the animals with the large white spots to get a more "exotic" look. Her NAIDS are several generations removed from the wolfdogs and they contain mostly Akita, Husky, Malamute, and German Shepherd.
According to Karen, the NAID is a pure bred dog designed after the dogs the Indians had. This claim is false. Her NAIDs and the NAIDs of the other breeders are a random mix of various breeds of dogs, and they have no real standard in either looks or temperament. In reality, they are just mutts. If you notice her NAIDS and the NAIDS of other breeders differ quite drastically in appearance, which is not something you would see in a dog breed that was a pure breed. In fact, the Indians themselves didn't even have a pure breed of dog. Theirs were also mixed dogs. With the arrival of the Europeans, these dogs became interbred with dogs from Europe and other countries. Because the dogs were never a pure bred dog, and because no one bothered to study into them much, it would be impossible to "recreate" them.

According to Karen, the dogs do not shed and are hypoallergenic. Little could be further from the truth. These dogs shed constantly. Because they have a LOT or northern breed in them, they grow up with those same thick double coats as the northern breeds have. As is normal for a dog like this, they "blow" their undercoat once or twice a year, and shed constantly in between.

As for temperament... Karen does not breed for it. Although she has very good facilities, the temperaments of most of her animals are horrible if a family pet is what you are looking for. Because they have been bred so poorly, almost all of her NAIDs have inherited the intense behavior of the high wolf content wolfdogs that they descended from, and in almost all the cases I have seen, have turned into nightmares for their unsuspecting owners. A few of her animals DO turn out nice, I have met at least one owner with a dog from her who was the best pet she ever had. However, last month I met three owners, one had given up their NAID, the second was on the verge of giving up their NAID and the third had kept theirs but it took a LOT of work. It is difficult to describe the temperament of the NAID, but based on what was reported to me by the three owners, three things seems to stick out, even before the animals were a year old and even when they had received vigorous training by professionals from a very young age. All three were VERY hyperactive. They were NOT good in the house (they were very destructive indoors). All three listened fairly well to commands but were sometimes extremely rough when they played and often could not be left around the children because of it, even though at times they would be very well behaved with the children. Here is part of the initial PM I received from the owner on the verge of giving up their NAID:
"We purchased a NAID from Majestic View. She swears, and I still have the email, that there is NO wolf in my dog. She says it is a mix between husky, malamute, shepard, and chinook. Unfortunately, your description sounds much more accurate. Our dog is nine months old, 85 pounds, has eaten couches, chairs, the carpet off the stairs, and he plays extremely rough with my three children. Then, there are other times, when he is the best behaved dog we know (my child can even sleep on him). I do not know what to do. I even bought an electric fence for stubborn dogs and not only was he not deterred, he ate the wire! We paid almost $1,000 for basic training, and he does well with that unless he is off his lease, and then it can be more than an hour to get him back."

The forth NAID I came into contact with (not mentioned above) is one we currently have in rescue now. She is named Sedona ( [url]http://www.liquinet.com/wolfdogadoption/Sedona.htm[/url] ) and is less than a year old. She reflects best the temperament you are likely to see in the average NAID from Majestic Views (although it was told to me that her temperament is actually [i]good[/i] compared to what you will see in most of Karen's NAIDs). Sedona is HIGHLY reactive. She watches your every move and will begin submissive posturing if she feels even a little threatened (for instance, if you try to correct her for being too rough). If she continues to feel threatened, she will begin to show her teeth and even nip. She is extremely sensative to EVERYTHING and her owners finally decided to give her up. I do not know much about the other NAID breeders, other than many have dogs from Karen and NONE are the pure bred dogs the breeders claim. Buying one would just be buying into a scam.


A note on wolf hybrids, they are not the "ticking time bombs" you think they are. Please do some serious research before going out to bash my "breed".

~Seij

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If looks (by looks I assume you want a dog that looks wolfy, but with none of the baggage associated with a wolf hybrid) are what you are looking for an Alaskan Husky might not be a bad choice- they still need firm training and lots of exercise, but they are a real breed that isn't ashamed of their mixed blood heritage. The description of the dog that the buyer thinks has wolf in it because of it's behavior sounds like most untrained Siberians, Malamutes or Alaskans- with out something to do they will become destructive

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[quote name='Pumpkin the musher']The description of the dog that the buyer thinks has wolf in it because of it's behavior sounds like most untrained Siberians, Malamutes or Alaskans- with out something to do they will become destructive[/quote]

Unfortunately the dog had been well-trained, as was Sedona. Karen does not breed for temperment though, and her dogs almost always turn out the exact oposite of a good family pet. It doesn't help either that many are sold highly unsocialized.

~Seij

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This claim is false. Her NAIDs and the NAIDs of the other breeders [b]are a random mix of various breeds of dogs, and they have no real standard in either looks or temperament. In reality, they are just mutts.[/b]
This I find very funny. You do realize ALL of our current purebreds come from mixed breed lineages. Our current purebreds have not been around that long. Our purebreds come from mongrels or races of dogs, humans saw some cute ones, or dogs which displayed a behavior they liked...took them in and started breeding them. To create a purebred dog all you have to do is inbreed mixed breeds of crossbreeds for a few generations. This will set a standard look and motor pattern (shaped behaviors).


If you notice her NAIDS and the [b]NAIDS of other breeders differ quite drastically in appearance, which is not something you would see in a dog breed that was a pure breed.[/b]
This is why purebred breeding is so unhealthy. To keep a dog in a artificial man made purebreed also creates genetic diseases.

[quote]In fact, the Indians themselves didn't even have a pure breed of dog. Theirs were also mixed dogs. With the arrival of the Europeans, these dogs became interbred with dogs from Europe and other countries. Because the dogs were never a pure bred dog, and because no one bothered to study into them much, it would be impossible to "recreate" them[/quote].
Inbreed the dogs for a few generations and you can create what ever purebred you want.
Seijun, you do realize that our purebreds are artifical and man made. There are some natural dogs in the world which could be considered natural purebreeds...but, they do not include our current purebreds. Some of the oldest natural breeds in the world are considered just mongrels. There are a lot of them on the island of Pemba which some biologists have been studying...they are a natural breed. Dogs evolved to be races or mongrels..they evolved to adapt to their natural environment. Man took from these mongrels to create our current purebreeds.

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It's the same with Alaskans- they are not bred for looks, but just athletic ability- sure, there is a certain body type that would predispose a dog to able to perform at a high level, but of seen plenty of dogs that [i]looked[/i]like they could breath fire, but turned out to be couch warmers, and others who did not look the part but were 110% heart. Alaskans are the ultimate form of "mutts"

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[quote name='Cassie']This claim is false. Her NAIDs and the NAIDs of the other breeders [b]are a random mix of various breeds of dogs, and they have no real standard in either looks or temperament. In reality, they are just mutts.[/b]
This I find very funny. You do realize ALL of our current purebreds come from mixed breed lineages. Our current purebreds have not been around that long. Our purebreds come from mongrels or races of dogs, humans saw some cute ones, or dogs which displayed a behavior they liked...took them in and started breeding them. To create a purebred dog all you have to do is inbreed mixed breeds of crossbreeds for a few generations. This will set a standard look and motor pattern (shaped behaviors).


If you notice her NAIDS and the [b]NAIDS of other breeders differ quite drastically in appearance, which is not something you would see in a dog breed that was a pure breed.[/b]
This is why purebred breeding is so unhealthy. To keep a dog in a artificial man made purebreed also creates genetic diseases.

[quote]In fact, the Indians themselves didn't even have a pure breed of dog. Theirs were also mixed dogs. With the arrival of the Europeans, these dogs became interbred with dogs from Europe and other countries. Because the dogs were never a pure bred dog, and because no one bothered to study into them much, it would be impossible to "recreate" them[/quote].
Inbreed the dogs for a few generations and you can create what ever purebred you want.
Seijun, you do realize that our purebreds are artifical and man made. There are some natural dogs in the world which could be considered natural purebreeds...but, they do not include our current purebreds. Some of the oldest natural breeds in the world are considered just mongrels. There are a lot of them on the island of Pemba which some biologists have been studying...they are a natural breed. Dogs evolved to be races or mongrels..they evolved to adapt to their natural environment. Man took from these mongrels to create our current purebreeds.[/quote]

That's not exactly the point I am trying to make. My point is that this lady has bred a random mix of dog, JUST for looks, NO attempts to standardize, with absolutely horrid temperament (if your looking for a good family pet) and she is [i]lying[/i] about their temperament, their heritage, and just about everything else! (Not to mention she breeds at the first heat cycle and twice a year-have you looked at how many puppies she currently has for sale right now?- [url]http://www.majesticview1.com/New_Arrivals.htm[/url] ). I know that there are other breeds out there that ARE ancient, that DON'T have a set standard, and ARE really great dogs, but the NAID isn't one of them! They aren't like the Alaskan huskies or other mixed breed "breed." These dogs did not originate from some long lost breed of Indian dog like Karen claims, and she isn't trying to recreate the Indian's dogs. It's just a ploy to make money. Have you ever looked at the other Indian dog breeder's pages?? "Rare white spirit dogs," rare white brindles," "rare white parti-brindles," "rare reds," the list of lies could go on forever. :roll: Her Indian dogs are just there for money and to cover up the fact that she bred wolf hybrids. She went as far as to SHOOT many of her own hybrids and sell their pelts! How much more money hungry can you get?? The NAID is NOT a breed, it is a MUTT. I am aware that there are some breeds out there that are mutts, and that all pures came from mutts, but she is trying to make out like these dogs are recreations of the Indians dogs, which they aren't! If a breeder did make an HONEST attempt to recreate the Indian

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It took awhile for the bell to ring with me, but she showed up on a mushing site I frequent trying to sell her dogs and created a real sh1tstorm-(This is a while back, maybe year at least). For this of course she claimed what
awesome sled dogs they would make, but when pressed to show race results, couldn't. She lists her dogs as 80 to 100 lbs, and for weight pull or freight racing they may be OK, but in any distance or sprint race they would be left in the dust. (snow :wink: )

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Guest Anonymous

Well, I can say the same for Song Dog Kennels.
Suppose to be a recreation af a Plains Indian Dog. But the problem is
they aren't. They are Kelpie mixes plain and simple. But it's sad in a way
because some people buy into the mystical aspect of his website
and think they are buying something that was extinct and now isn't.
They think their dogs are "healers" Not to be confused with HEELERS
which he has used. He has said he has never used coyotes in his breeding,
but if you look at a dog that is sitting on his lap under Breeding Backwards, THAT is a coy hybrid. I know where he got that dog. And a few others. He doesn't breed for temperment at all. Anything wrong with the dogs it's always the owners fault. I know of many "pedigrees"
with the parents of their pups and grandparents, and they are false.
Made up names. Pretty honest, huh? One year that I know of he had close to a hundred pups. I see Karen has quite a few now too.
It's just too bad. He claims himself a genetics expert. I could go on.
I just don't like people being taken. I was one

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Oh sheesh, here we go. Just got into a pissing match with someone on Dogster who posted their Siberian/Malamute/wolf mishmash as an Alaskan. I pointed out to them that what they have is not an Alaskan, especially since they got the dog in South Carolina. No big mushing kennels there, would be my guess, :roll: . Now they are insisting they have a Amerindian dog, from someone named Becky Galliher at Graystone ranch in S.C.. Anyone heard of her?

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Guest Anonymous

Well, thats interesting..
Was this a rescue American Indian Dog from Becky Galiher??
I never heard of her. The only breeder of those dogs I know of is Kim LaFlamme in Oregon. Thats where I got mine. If you REALLY want to upset her, tell her the dog she has is really not an Indian Dog.
Altho it could be the bigger ones which would have come from Karen Markel. Her dogs are called NAtive American Indian Dogs,
And LaFlammes are called American Indian Dogs. Or as I call him Mr.
LaFlimFlam.

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