NO BOND???

[Crystal]

Why can't we seem to bond with this dog? I mean he is cute and sweet when he wants to be, but there is no bond. My husband can't stand him sometimes and last night he even said he hated him. I was nearly in tears for sometimes I feel the same way. Please don't think badly of me and don't tear me apart here. I need advice. I don't honestly know what to do.

Maybe it was to much to ask of a dog. I mean McKenzie was a great dog and she was like a baby to me. Toby never fit that. There was no spark from the begining. He cowered in the back of his crate for the first 48 hours. He would hide behind the furniture. He doesn't play he just bites and chews on your shoes. Honestly I don't know if he is even happy here.

I'm so sad thinking about this today. I mean I try and try but I can't fall in love with this dog. I am starting to think maybe it was a mistake to get him. I feel maybe I am depriving him of the place he should be. Could it be possible he was just not meant to be our dog? Can that be? I am really lost here. I've never had trouble bonding with animals. It always comes quickly and easily. I mean I've had probably 6 or 7 dogs and 2 c@ts. The bond just forms. It's been about 2 or 3months. Nothing, he is cute but hates to cuddle. So no cuddly, but he is a dog and I wanted a dog, but he just doesn't bond with anyone. Maybe my daughter, but I'm not for sure.

Is it horrible to long for that bond and relationship with an animal? Should I give up? Should I find him a new home? I'm falling apart on this one.

[Crystal]

He came from a oops litter. I knew the woman who had him and she had two kids. The pups stayed in the house and the little girl loved Toby, she carried him all over the place and loved him to death. Maybe he has had to much love.

I honestly fear that without the bond of family and dog that something is bound to go wrong. I'm scared to death that if this dog doesn't love and respect my family that he may bite one of my kids. When that happens it will be the end. Hubby will not allow any more Toby. He will have to be rehomed, put to sleep, or takin to the humane society right away. I have to fix this problem before something bad comes of it. You can't force love but what is stopping it? I know someone will think maybe it was trying to hard to replace McKenzie. NO that isn't it. I knew there would never be another like her. I never expected him to live up to those standards. She would be an impossible act to follow.

Maybe it is the breed difference. Maybe he just wasn't the breed for us. I need a pittie. How can people think they are so horrible? I bond so easily with them. Toby is part lab, pure stubborness. Then the husky attitude, geez what am I gonna do.

I don't want him to live as the dog. I want him to be part of the famiy.

[bk_blue]

[quote name='Crystal']I honestly fear that without the bond of family and dog that something is bound to go wrong. I'm scared to death that if this dog doesn't love and respect my family that he may bite one of my kids.[/quote]

Are you not jumping the gun just a tiny bit? Nothing's happened so far to cause you to think he may do something? I mean, you're saying "when that happens" as if it is inevitable. The poor dog hasn't even done anything yet.

A dog being not very cuddly isn't the end of the world. If we all got rid of our pets because they didn't live up to our expectations all the time then the shelters would be more overcrowded than they already are. My advice is to stick with him for at least another six months. You took on the massive responsibility of dog ownership and it is your duty to give him everything he needs within reason.

[Crystal]

No I'm not saying it will defiently happen. Nor am I jumping the gun. I am just hoping to prevent it. You don't know my Toby. He play bites big time sometimes to the point you can't go near him. Sometimes he has to be crated because he gets so out of control. My son usually hides up on the couch so Toby can't get him. My daughter puts gloves on so he can't' bite her fingers. The other day I was pushing my son on the swing and Toby came up behind me and jump up and bit my fingers. I was minding my own business and he bit me. So I can see it turning into a problem. I just wonder if he is unhappy. I am doing preventative matience here. I didn't say I was going to run him to a shelter. I said if he bites one of the kids my husband will make me get rid of him. I am trying to work with him before something bad happens.

I defienlty didn't say I was getting rid of him for not living up to my expectations or wouldn't cuddle with us. I infact said the opposite. I don't have high expectations. I just wanted a good familly dog. I just want the normal bond owner and animal have. We have nothing. I'm trying to stop him from ending up one of those dogs who bites a child and gets PTS.

I was looking for advice for anyone who may have had a similar expierence. I wasn't tyring to get treated like an idiot who didn't know what she was doing.

I knew the responsibility, Toby is not my first dog. Geez, why must you continue to try to make me look stupid. I said I am not going to see you differently due to a disagreement in another thread.

[bk_blue]

That's right, I don't know your Toby. I can only go on the information given and nothing on play biting or Toby's other behaviour was posted in this particular thread until you replied to my post.

I don't believe I make you look stupid and I don't believe I am treating you like "an idiot who didn't know what she was doing". I'm not intentionally hassling you. We just have conflicting opinions and that is fine with me if it's fine with you. Ask anyone here- if there's something I disagree with I'll take them on no matter who it is and man have I had some doozies with people here.

Anyway. Jess made a very good point with training.

[JackieMaya]

Crystal, does Toby get enough exercise? Maybe he has too much energy and that's how he's releasing it, by play biting? Maybe if you could take him for a long walk every day his attitude would improve. Just a thought.

I also think that a puppy training class would be a good idea.

Good luck with Toby.

[Crystal]

BK, ok if you are not trying to make me feel that way. I feel you are carrying feelings from another thread to this one. Sorry if you didn't know about Toby's play bitting. I had mentioned it before in other threads, guess you didn't see them.

My stinky little town is so small and crappy that there is no training classes. The closest good one is over an hour drive away. So he gets the training I give him. I work with him often and we romp and play but he always turns into play bitting. I know this can develop into a big problem. He is stubborn. This may be what is stoping bonding, but I don't know. He has be a loner ever since day 1. He prefers to keep to himself and not be bothered. It's odd, never meet a dog like him. I know some dogs just aren't good around kids. I thought getting a puppy would stop that. Maybe the kids make him nervous or something. I dont konw I'm grasping at anything here.

[Crystal]

He spends alot of time with us. As long as he isn't pooing behind the furniture he is allowed in the living room. I sit and pet him and talk to him and such. He spends a few hours alone, but even then I go out often and reassure him that I am not gone.

I try to redirect him when he bites. I say no, I've tried a sharp ouch, and I've given him something he can mouth instead of me. I've grabbed his mouth and closed it. I've even placed him in time out. Which is a few minutes alone placed in a room where he can't see anyone or have any fun. Doesn't work. He consistently bites me. I will ow ow ow, and he finds it even more of a reason to bite. One day he bit he extremly hard and I poped him on the butt out of shock. Really that little tap seemed to have the most affect. It was not hard and didn't hurt him, but it removed his attention from me and biting. I just don't want to go around poping his butt, that seems cruel.

[pyrless]

Crystal, trust me on this. Taz was EXACTLY the same way. He refused to "cuddle"-i would pick him up and he would grunt and wiggle until i put him down. He ambushed our ankles like a c@t. Play biting does [/b]not[b] foretell a future problem, the dog is teething, and at that age they will put their little mouths on anything they can get away with. A potentially aggressive dog will not "play". It will stare you down.
Taz chewed a chunk of plaster off the wall and ate part of the garage. I didn't feel a bond with him until he was at least a year old and it might have been longer than that. Have you tried bitter apple spray? I used to have to spray it on my hands and feet. Also, a training class doesn't have to be the be-all and end-all. I trained Taz myself. Some dogs are "harder" (temperament-wise) than others. To stop the play biting on our skin, I would press my thumb firmly under his tongue, look him in the eye and say "NO". Over and over and over.
Walk him every day. This is not only a great way to bond with him, it puts you in a leader position, and it tires him out. I don't know what kind of dog McKenzie was, but you have a mix of two extremely high-energy, driven breeds. Ceasar Milan, "The Dog Whisperer" goes by the mantra of "Exercise, discipline, THEN affection", which I wholeheartedly agree with.
Another thing you can do is learn as much as you can about both breeds, and see where his personality falls in that continuum. Talk to breeders, show people, pet owners, mushers, whatever. Taz is half Elkhound and half Rough Collie. Trust me, he wouldn't know how to herd something if you gave him a manual! His personality is Elkhound through and through, and once I understood that, it helped immensely.
Sorry this is so long. I am just trying to say, don't give up yet. My bond with Taz is amazing. It can happen. (and look how pretty he is!) :D [/i]

[Crystal]

Thank you pyrless. By the way McKenzie was Boxer and Pit so she Toby is all that different in energy aspects. Toby ate a hole in the laundry room wall. Yesterday he knocked some of the stucco off the side of the porch. Monster. Well I am gonna keep trying. Only about 8 months to go until a year old. I can survive. I've just always been able to so easily train other dogs. He is impossible. Hopefully he will trust us before long and warm up.

[pyrless]

:D
oh, MAN does he sound like a clone of Taz! Taz also ate the sides off two couches, a $300 rug, about 87 socks, some blinds, a plastic food bowl, a chair leg and a box spring. And yes, my husband was ready to flip out as well.
Honey, Toby is only four months old! Puppies are nuts! I have since of course fallen in love with Elkhounds in general but i will never get another puppy!
What I learned from raising Taz also is that with some dogs, you need to earn their respect first, then they will get all lovey-mushy sometime after that. The funny thing is in my house I am alpha to that dog, not my husband! :D He is also fiercely protective of me and gets upset if my husband so much as tickles me in front of him. He knows when I am sad and attempts to comfort me. It took me three years to teach him how to heel on lead, but now he walks alongside me proudly. (This is a dog who was too stubborn to turn the corner when I leash-trained him!)
Remember, too, Boxers and Pits love people, love to love people, love to be around people. Labs do too, from what I understand. However, a husky is not gonna be a hand-licking lap dog, you know? :D Love him for his strengths and exercise the hell out of him.
Also think about the dog he will be, not the puppy he is.

[Crystal]

Ah, the dog he will be. Thanks I feel better. It is stressful. He has recently decided to trust us enough for belly rubs. He sees someone coming and rolls right over to wait. I'm waiting on my daughter to point out his "you know what" and ask what it is. Shes 6 she will ask.

[JackieMaya]

I'll be happy when Pooh Bear gets out of the puppy stage! He's taken bites out of three leather recliners, one sofa, one dog bed, two harnesses, one leash, several shoes, and he ate the leg off of the clay statue I had made of Jackie! So now Jackie has three legs. LOL!

Good luck with Toby! Like Pyrless said, it might just take more time with Toby than it did with your other dogs.

[Crystal]

Michele, it's ok. I don't think I could get rid of him anways. I do love him, even though he is stubborn and rotten. Gonna keep trying.

[leahluvsherpups]

Just my opinion based on experience. When Cody was a puppy she had no interest at all in us humans. She just wanted to be with the other dogs. She was a major nipper and chewer which she finally got over. She now does show a little bit of bonding and love but no where near the bonding I have with the other three. I love her all the same.

[Seijun]

How long have you had Toby and how old is he? (sorry, can't remember, I know you have said before though, just can't find it right now). It took me between 6 and 12 months to feel as though I had reached a "bonding" point with my Shilo. Sometimes, it just takes time. Shilo has never cuddled with me, and she never acts like she appreciates me, but I can feel that there is a bond there now, regardless.

~Seij

[Crystal]

I was counting dogs I had when I was little. One got hit by a car. One my parents gave away against my will. 2 were my min-pins, one died, the other lives with my parents. McKenzie was another one. ETC.

I know 2 or 3 months isn't long, but I thought there should be some sort of bond forming.


And I've had a pit mix before and they are just so much more fit to my personality than any dog I've ever meet.

[Crystal]

not bred on purpose. Complete accident. I knew alot less about dogs than I do now and her first heat snuck up on us. Then yes she was rehomed, I had no other choice and had exhausted all my options. Well not really, I could have placed her at my inlaws house tied up out back behind the shed where she would have had no interaction until I could go by late in the evenings. I did what was best for her. Now I am in a better situation, but I have Toby and I am devoted to making him part of my family.

[pyrless]

K, with all due respect, Crystal is going through a time and she is here for support, and I believe, just venting. I believe Crystal is committed to this pup but what one of us can say we have not gone through this frustration? Sasha, my Pyr, is the most similar to me personality wise, and probably the best suited to me, but that doesn't mean my bond with Taz is any less, or any less amazing considering how we started out.

[Crystal]

Wow, it's nice to know all these We's feel this way. Great. Thanks PYR for the support. I'm glad.

yes I was at one time considering breeding McKenzie. Not to the dog it happened with. I was roped in by a jerk that made we believe something great about a bullboxer breed. I was in that case wrong and I have admitted that. Her first heat was earlier than I was told to suspect it so I didn't catch it in time. Sorry for that, but I can't go back and undo that. Due to circumstances out of my control we were forced to live with the in laws, therefore I had to follow there rules as to the dog being outside. When I was able to move and bring her inside I did so. Life happens and you must take it as it comes.

Due to the fact that so many of you feel so horribly towards me I don't konw if I can take any advice here seriously. I am not planning to dump and dog and continually get news one in hopes for the best. Dogs are like humans in the aspect that no one is perfect. Frankly I am hurt to find out you feel this way. I was simply hoping for help for my situation. Nevermind I can't get that here.

PYR and others who have helped thanks alot. To those of you that feel so awful about me, I am sorry you feel that way. You do not know me at all.

[Crystal]

I don't even remember his name, glad you do. Yes a jerk, a guy who claimed one thing and really made me believe it. He was bad and now you can't find him doing what he used to do and all of the sudden his dog is considered a different breed. Man, act like you've never made a mistake before. Like you've never trusted someone and found out you were wrong.

[Crystal]

I'm fine. My breathing is normal and my heart rate is not up. I don't let things get to me. It is however nice to know how people feel about me. For now I feel people must be talking about me without my knowing. It is nice to know the truth.

[Crystal]

He never told me my dog wasn't good for breeding. Now he is claiming his dog is some purebred on another forum. He never claimed tht to me. To me his dog was a bullboxer. I can't remember what he is calling him now. I was the one who didn't go through with the breeding.

[Crystal]

Wondering what Michele?

[pyrless]

Hi K-
Actually we must have posted at the exact same time, my last post! :wink:
At any rate, I was not here when Crystal was here "before" so I cannot speak to those things you mentioned specifically. Of course I do not agree with wanton breeding and the concept of the "outside" dog, but I did not read those prior posts myself and was not involved in those discussions, so I will defer comment to those who were.
Regardless, Crystal deserves perhaps the same second chance we are all so willing to give our beloved dogs. Having been in her shoes, I feel her frustration.