DEXTER'S TRAINER IS ON TV TODAY, NGEO CHANNEL 3:30pac, 6:30e

[drjeffrock]

Hey everyone,
Sorry I have not been around lately. Between PC problems and some isses I will post about later, I have had no time.
Dexter's trainer filmed 26 episodes for the National Geographic Channel and they are starting to air today. His name is Cesar Milan, and the show is called the Dog Whisperer. I know it sounds cheesy, but Cesar does work wonders. He is not a trainer in the sense that he does not teach "sit" "stay" etc. He mainly works with aggressive dogs (both towards humans and other animals.) For those of you unfamiliar with Dex, in the past he has shown some signs of human aggression to strangers that approach me on the street. Also, he is extremely dog-aggressive towards any other dogs (aside from Kira.) Some of you might find Cesar's methods to be bogus, but he does work. His main philosophy is to exercise your pooch, and really let them know that you are the boss. For example, with an extremely dog-aggresssive dog who lunges and snaps at other dogs on leash, he uses a choke-chain (fitted properly) and basically does not allow your dog to even look at other dogs in a menacing manner. Basically on walks, your dog should never be walking in front of you, only along-side or behind you. Also, he really helps to understand your dogs body language, focusing on the nose area.
I was skeptical at first, but a few years back he helped us with Kira. She would pull Christine like crazy anytime she saw another dog. His methods have worked in the past, and I started to take Dex to him as his dog-aggression has gotten increasingly worse lately.
I have seen him at our local hiking spot (which is also a dog park.) He tends to work most with APBTs, staffs, GSDs, and Rotts. Last time I saw him he was running with a pack of 15 dogs. Most of them were APBTS with a couple Rotts, GSDs, and a poodle. At his warehouse in South Central he trains dogs that have bitten their owners, their kids, killed the family cat, etc. Last time I went I was greeted by a pack of approx. 40 dogs. Most were pits, somewhere GSDS, a wolf-looking mix, and a few Rotts. None of them were seperated. It was quite amazing. Two pits started to growl and lunge at each other, Cesar said one word, and the pack was back to normal. Its like he is the pied piper with all these dogs following him.
I am sure some people will have problems with him trying to rehab man-biters (especially pits.) But, its not as though he will say that every single dog can be helped. Anyhow, just thought some of you might be interested.
I had not seem him in the past couple years, as he has become quite the quasi-celebrity appearing in magazines. tv shows and newspapers.
Dex has started to show some very serious signs of aggression towards strangers (mostly bums, and tall men at night-time) so I decided to get back with him and work on Dex to see if he can be helped.
The show is at 6:30 eastern time, 3:30 pacific on the national geographic channel. Check your satellite/cable listings for the channel.
Talk to you all soon!
-Jeff

[imported_Kat]

Very off-course but I read your post Jeff and reading "Cesar" has just given me a massive craving for chicken caesar salad :lol:

[rotten_two]

wassup doc? i got a post about this a while ago and am going to post it here. it is not meant to incite a riot nor am i saying these methods don't work -- merely expressing another viewpoint. i personally opt for positive methods first but do realize that some cases require a different approach.

Forwarded with permission from Nancy Kerns, editor of the Whole Dog Journal:


Nancy says:

"I received a press kit yesterday for a new National Geographic show that will be broadcast starting on Sept 13. Called "The Dog Whisperer," it features "behaviorist" Cesar Millan working with a variety of dogs and their owners. The publicist sent me a videotape with about 20 minutes of footage from the new program, which will be a "daily series."

Millan has a great personality, very calm but charismatic. And he's shown on tape getting perfect results in each case. However, his methods are anything but positive. In each of the cases shown on the preview tape, he calmly uses force-based methods and works seeming miracles.

He's shown in the following situations:

Scruffing a mixed-breed small dog into submitting to grooming. (The dog had been growling at and biting groomers and the owner)

Using yanks on a pinch collar to prevent a mixed-breed (Rottie mix?) from neurotically looking for lights to chase. The dog had chased a laser light as a pup, and has spent years obsessively hunting for the light again, running around the house and his people's feet. Millan gives the dog some quick jerks, moving his attention away from his quest.

Scruffing and holding down an aggressive Chihuahua into accepting contact with other people, and keeping him from going after people he doesn't like in his house.

Forcing a Great Dane who is afraid of slick floors and refuses to go on them onto one.

I'm afraid that when the public sees this, people will try similar methods on their own-- and it will result in lots of dogs biting their owners. Millan can pull this stuff off (in the cases we see) but it's just the same old fashioned stuff that got people and dogs hurt, presented in a more restrained, pseudo-pschological manner.

Anyway, I don't know what, if anything, anyone can do as a pre-emptive strike. Positive trainers should be aware this is out there, it's coming..."

[drjeffrock]

Hey rotten,
Thanks for the article. I know some of his methods sound bizarre, and I would not expect everyone to just accept his methods as correct. Unfortunately positive methods do not work with all dogs, it would be nice if it did.
Cesar works mainly wi/ GSDS, Rotts, and APBTS. I have seen first hand some of the dogs he has rehabed.
K, the Dane had an accident on some linoleum floor. He was running around his masters school, and he skidded into a glass pane that knocked him out cold. He could not stop in time b4 hitting the glass pane. Ever since then, he refused to go on any shiny surface (linoleum floors, that institutionalized waxed floor, or wet pavement.
The owner was saying how she would love to be able to bring Kane back to school with her, as the kids loved him, but he would not go inside. Within 15 minutes, Cesar did get him inside, by pulling him in at first, then letting the Dane walk further inside under its own will. It took 15 minutes, then the owner was able to walk Kane inside with no problem whatsoever. Not making excuses, but his methods certainly worked in that case.
No doubt, what he does should not be tried by the average dog-owner.

[rotten_two]

i agree that not all dogs respond to +R in the same way-- this is what i meant by some dogs need a different approach. i am considering any dog with MAJOR behavioral hang ups -- not just breed specific. you mentioned that he works with pits, rotts, gsd as if they are the trouble makers -- or maybe you are saying they are of robust enough build so as to handle his rougher methods? personally the rotten two respond quite well to positive training methods and i wouldn't resort to use of physical force with either (but of course this is just me).

again i am not attacking you for training with this guy and i think it is great that you found solutions that worked for your crew. :D

you are correct when you say joe schmoe dog parent should not try this at home. that is the scary part -- this show is marketed toward the average pet person who likely doesn't have the knowledge or experience to implement this type of training. i wonder if they will put up the warning box that says "DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME"

[drjeffrock]

rotten_two napisał(a):

i agree that not all dogs respond to +R in the same way-- this is what i meant by some dogs need a different approach. i am considering any dog with MAJOR behavioral hang ups -- not just breed specific. you mentioned that he works with pits, rotts, gsd as if they are the trouble makers -- or maybe you are saying they are of robust enough build so as to handle his rougher methods? personally the rotten two respond quite well to positive training methods and i wouldn't resort to use of physical force with either (but of course this is just me).

again i am not attacking you for training with this guy and i think it is great that you found solutions that worked for your crew. :D

you are correct when you say joe schmoe dog parent should not try this at home. that is the scary part -- this show is marketed toward the average pet person who likely doesn't have the knowledge or experience to implement this type of training. i wonder if they will put up the warning box that says "DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME"

Hey rotten,
I did watch the show yesterday, and it was riddled with "Do not try this at home. Consult a professional before attempting any training method." I would say it was put on maybe 6 times within the 1/2 hour show (after every commercial and at the beginning/ending of the show as well as during his discussion with each dog owner.)
While Cesar does work with a lot of GSDs,Rotts, pits, etc. he does work with any breed. His methods do differ according to the breed though.
I believe that I have tried every other method with Dex (PP, NILIF, etc.)
I will discuss Dex briefly and what Cesar suggests to help us. Dex is quite dog-aggressive. He lunges, barks, snaps, etc. at other dogs whenever he sees them. I have worked, and worked on getting is focus on me and desensitizing him to other dogs on our walks. I was doing this by getting Dex's attention BEFORE he postures himself in an aggressive manner towards the other dog. I have seen some progress, but not much. I have used this method with other dogs I have trained, with success, not Dexter though. Also, Dex pays no attention to people on walks when they walk right by us. However, if someone stops me and says "nice pitbull" or "Hey man, do you have an extra cigarette?" he will growl and posture himself in a dominant fashion.
So, here is what Cesar has us working on w/ Dex. Cesar's main point is that dogs (especially pits) need exercise. It sounds obvious, but an unexercised dog hs a different attitude than one that is exercised. Cesar wants Dex to learn how to avoid and ignore other dogs. The way to do this is to bring him to the dog park everyday and get him used to being around other dogs. Using a choke chain (fitted properly) Dex is to be at my side at all times, never allowed to walk in front of me (as I lead the pack.) When he turns his head and sees a dog, he gets a correction to put his head back forward. If he is just looking without sticking his nose or chest out, it is not as big of a deal. Anytime he postures himself in a way to attack, he gets the correction. Its hard to explain how to do it over the internet. For example, if Dex is heeling on my left and sees a dog to his left, I can also use my right heel and graze his ribs. Not hard, just enough to break his stare and get him to look back at me as if to wonder what just touched him. I have def. seen results. Normally he would lunge at every single dog, but I would say that he has gotten to the point that of the 100 dogs he sees, maybe 2-3 will catch his attention in a bad way. Also, Cesar thinks its important for me to keep my stride up, and not slow down if a dog pairs up with him, or walks in front of him. He thinks that dogs can read our energy, and if we show signs of nervousness, etc. they will pick up on it.
I have been around dogs my entire life, and have tried and watched numerous methods. It would be silly to think that Dex will get along with all other dogs, he is an APBT after all. But, he should be able to be walked without acting like a terror on-leash.
Christine and I used the same method with Kira (our Akita) a few years back. She was a terror on-leash too. Now, she can walk past dogs with no problem. Its not to say that she would not try to rip a dogs head off if she was off-leash but she behaves on-leash. I have def. seen improvement with Dex, I hope it continues. Since I have started with Cesar's method, he has been friendly to everyone who greets us on the street, a far cry from before. No doubt, I think that any type of fear or human aggression in a pit is a big no-no. In fact, I was ready to put him down as the last thing I want to do is jeapordize any ones safety or health around me. If I do see more signs of human aggression, I will put him to sleep. I am just trying to do everything in my power to help, before I make the toughest decision of my life.

[drjeffrock]

I agree K. It seems kinda silly to let a Dane run around on slippery floors.
The main problem with the show is that I fear some people will try his methods on their own, and will end up with a nasty bite. The way he handled the feisty chi would def. be a tragedy if someone attempted that on a pit, akita, etc.
Also, you have to take things on TV with a grain of salt. I mean, of course all the shows will demonstrate a problem solved in a short amount of time. More often than not, it takes a lot of hard work, not one little method and the problem is solved.

[rotten_two]

doc:

good to know that they are at least putting up some kind of warning during the show :D

i totally agree that a tired dog is a more manageable dog! glad to hear that dex and kira have done well with their on-leash aggression issues. i hope they will continue to benefit. i still do struggle with whether this is must see tv tho .

[Canis erectus]

Good for you jeff, I'm glad you were able to find somethimg that works out for Dexter. Most aggresive dogs aren't that lucky.

[drjeffrock]

Canis erectus napisał(a):

Good for you jeff, I'm glad you were able to find somethimg that works out for Dexter. Most aggresive dogs aren't that lucky.

Thanks! I wouldnt say that things are fine and dandy, but I take it one day at a time. I have seen lots of improvement, I hope it continues.