Cat litter and dogs....

[Ickle]

Hobbit
well done a great piece of writing
I wholeheartedly agree with all you said.
Ickle :lol:

[Hobbit]

Thanks, Ickle.

We have dogs because we love and adore them. To say that they are to make us money, is like saying our children OWE us for bringing them into this world and we are out to recoop some of that money we've spent on them.

It's UNCONDITIONAL LOVE --- totally, no strings, no contracts, not here to make money OFF of them --- just to spend it ON THEM!! :wink:

[Hobbit]

[quote name='roo']Hobbit.
thank you for that post, it was heartfelt,
sensible and hardhitting.

while your there give Sissy a huge kiss and hug for
me :lol:

roo[/quote]


Thanks......I just came in from outside hugging on all of them. :wink:

[bk_blue]

Geez, this is what happens when I don't get on the board for 24 hours?! :wink:


Not meaning to sound like a sheep here ( :wink: not meaning to excite Hobbit)- but Horsefeathers et al have got it all right. It doesn't matter how much you spend on a dog, you don't use it to recoup any costs... dogs are not money making machines, they are pets first and foremost, even with good breeders their dogs are all treated as pets. Our first two bitches had champion pedigrees and cost an arm and a leg to buy- but no way were they ever going to be bred from. BK is a mutt anyway, but even if he was a champion ACD with a pedigree as long as my arm I'd never use him to recoup costs or anything else. He's destroyed more things than I can remember but you grin and bear it, it's part and parcel of owning a pet. His good points more than make up for any damage he's caused.
There are more than enough dogs in the shelters who are the results of monetary experiments gone awry. Take a look at your local shelter and try not to be saddened and sickened by the human race, whatever its intentions. :(

[corgilady]

:o Sheesh you work all day and look what you miss.

Ebby I posted this question:[quote]Ebby, as the owner of the male, how much homework are you going to do on the females? Are you going to insist on certain tests and so on? How responsible is the male's owner for the litter? For example, are you going to have any contact with the puppies' owners, so that if any of them ever gave up the puppy they would bring it to you instead of the animal shelter? [/quote]
It was never answered of course. However, look here:
Ebby said:
[quote]I too, was offered a puppy (1 yr. old) with a heart murmer just last week....and I have to say, I would have taken him if it wasn't for the fact that the other alternative is to [b]stay at the kennel[/b] where he is and live a long and happy life with people who know more about this and are better equipt to deal with it than I or my family. [/quote][color=red]Ebby feels that a dog kept in a kennel is better off than a dog in a home.[/color]
Ebby also said:
[quote]even their kittens were never advertised in the paper[/quote][color=red] She is also breeding her cats[/color]

and she said:
[quote]Now the 2 yr old (my husbands new dog) is growling at MY dog whenever he comes near me or I attempt to go near him and he comes between us and puts his chin on the back of my dogs neck and growls low, pushing my dogs head down a bit....<snip> and also Incidentally, the new dog DID open his mouth and 'wet' my dogs ear in a scuffle over me (or so it appears)...I couldn't call him off[/quote] [color=red]She is going to breed a golden who acts like this?[/color]

Also, the above 2 bits were posted on Nov 1, and on Nov 2 she gave away the first dog, her "love" that she had rescued (read: borrowed for 1 year). Apparently,this happened:
[quote]not ignoring the ruined furniture he ate, the ruined carpet he had 'accidents' on when he wasnt feeling well, the leather jacket he used as a chew toy, the scratches he left on the side of our BRAND NEW van when he wanted to go for a car ride etc etc - the list is a lot longer if you include the kids toys they left laying around)[/quote]

at the old place, so at the new one she kept him outside all the time, and the barking drove the neighbors nuts. Was he ever played with? Or petted?


and then there is this:
[quote]Oh yeah, and HOBBIT, I think you know where you can stick your unfounded opinions....[/quote]

and this:
[quote]"kiss my arse...you have no idea what you are talkin about ...as usual[/quote]

:roll: What ladylike speech.

Our friend Ebby doesn't look at the world the same way that we do. She needs to be educated on a few points: genetics (Hobbit?) and the sadder side of rescue (Horsefeathers?) and general info about what makes a "good" dog, i.e., conformation, MANNERS, etc (roo?) She also needs to learn how to train a dog, if this isn't the first one that she has re-homed...read that somewhere...posted by a different member. Also Ebby, if you cannot control the new dog, he will walk all over you soon, regardless of his "previous training". ALSO....I know the old owners told you he would only eat food "from his owners"????But I wouldn't count on that!!! If you leave him outside to get poisoned, it probably WILL happen!

And...just so you know....on petfinder alone there are 1349 goldens.... ONLY ON ONE SITE....that doesn't count all the other (countless) sites, and purebred rescues, etc. THAT"S A LOT OF DOGS.... here is a link to one:
[url]www.tvgrr.com[/url]
In afew years, some of those could be "your" puppies. PLEEEEEEEASE think about this.

[Guest Anonymous]

Well, where to start.
Admittedly, since I am VERY VERY new to this site and your speach, my wording has been wrong. My fault for walking before I could crawl. The golden I presently own did not come from a [b]kennel [/b]in the sense of cages and captivity as you seem to think I meant. He lived as a pet with a breeder of Goldens since he was either 6 weeks or 6 months old (not sure which). I have always referred to any place boarding dogs or breeding them as 'kennels' so my appologies for freaking you out on that one.
And yes, my chow was 'kennelled' in the sense of in his 'house' only when I was at work or away from the home because of his destructive nature. otherwise he spent all of his time with our family and playing with our two children. However, when in the backyard he would bark at any sound or movement through the fences. In addition, i was at work the day he was threatened while my husband was at home with him and had him in the backyard with him. And FYI the jacket was hanging in the closet and he pulled the sleeve till it came down adn he chewed it.
I have NEVER come in here claiming to know much about dogs...in fact, reading prior posts they are almost ALWAYS asking questions.
And for the record, I am NOT PRESENTLY BREEDING ANY ANIMAL - i was simply inquiring about how it works as a thought. We have been kicking the idea around yes, but NOTHING is carved in stone. My inquiries are no reason for anyone to talk to me so rudely. Our hymmies bred twice before being fixed...with the asistance of a reputable breeder the kittens found wonderful homes and I still to this day recieve pics of them all and they are ALL accounted for and perfectly healthy (mind you ALL only totals 6 kittens). NO we were not breeding our cats but when our female got pregnant I immediately called upon the breeder we got her from to assist in finding the kittens good homes and to make sure my cat was kept healthy and comfortable.
It isnt fair to accuse me of 'irresponsible breeding' when i am not breding ANYTHING. I am simply asking some questions. Perhaps the word 'recoup' was not the appropriate word to use ( I will admit that right now) and it isnt what I meant at all.
And any questions posed to me in other previous posts that went unanswered, i didnt see or couldnt answer for lack of knowledge....which is the primary reason I came here in the first place...because I dont know anything about this stuff and needed to get some information from people who know more than I do so we could make an informed decision regarding our dog....which is what i thought I was doing....my mistake...
You can say what you like now, I wont respond anymore....any information I will be requiring to give my dog the best life I can I will get from somewhere else.

oh yeah, and as far as my speech goes, I appologise. That is not how I uually represent myself. It is no excuse, but I was hurt and upset by the way i was being spoken to and felt frustrated that no one understood me or even tried to...however, i [b]never [/b]should have said the things I said. I will leave you to it now....good luck with all your precious darlings...

[Horsefeathers!]

I have no doubt that you will be back to read the responses. It's human nature. Kind of like a bad wreck... you don't want to see it, but you look, anyway. You may not have the fortitude to respond, but you will be reading.

That said, I am going to say this...

Speaking for myself, my sole intent was to make you stop and THINK. If it takes p*ssing you off to do it, that's great. Often, a p*ssed off person will take action. Just a little insight... I've been where you are. Horror of horrors, before I knew any better, I bought not one, but TWO pet store puppies. Spent a fortune on them. Cute as heck, but the one is a structural monstrosity and the other has a vile temperament and awful allergies. Worse, I planned to BREED these dogs because soooooooo many people kept telling me what gee golly cute puppies they'd have and also CHA CHING what kind of money I could make selling them. Sure, I adored these dogs, but heck, all they had to do was a little hubba hubba and we were all set. I had no clue that there could possibly be any risk. Heck, when I was a kid, our ol' yard dog popped out puppies every year with no problem (in hindsight, I remember as a kid losing a Kees in whelp). As far as I knew, it was just "normal." I cringe now as I write this. I made the holy moly mistake (turned out to be the best thing that could have happened) of casually mentioning this on another forum several years ago. If you think we were rough on you, you should have seen the almighty butt whoopin' I took. These people were ruthless and raked me over the coals like you wouldn't believe. I was angry. Boy, was I p*ssed! However, it planted the seed. I got past anger and began reading and talking to rescue people and show people. The more I learned, the more I realized these people did me and the potential future offspring of these dogs a huge favor. Fortunately, it was before there were any puppies produced. Anyway, I have been where you are. Now I'm on the other side, involved in rescue, and I LOATHE people like the person I used to be. Of course, I was ignorant. I learned. I still say that it's one thing to not know. It's even worse to know and not care. I am still a member of that forum and now get along great with those same people I thought were such jackasses. It was not about just "attacking" you, personally, but your naive outlook.

There are hundreds of dog forums out there if that's what you want. It sounds more like you are looking for affirmation than advice and honesty. You seem to want someone to just tell you that you are right and to go for it. If that's what you're looking for, good luck. There are forums like that... they just tell you what you want to hear. Blah.

Anyway, talk to some Golden Retriever rescue people. Many of the folks involved in breed specific rescues are breeders/exhibitors, themselves, who also do rescue work because they genuinely love their chosen breed. They know the ins and outs of the business (for lack of a better word) of breeding. If money is your primary motivation, nothing anyone can say is going to change your mind. However, if by some stroke of luck, you are a compassionate soul, just maybe that seed has been planted for you, too, and you will leave this breeding thing to the people who are educated in the genetics, diseases, health and what it takes to improve, or at least sustain, the breed. At the very least, maybe you will learn what it takes to be responsible. It's much more than just throwing two dogs together and collecting money. It should be, anyway. You are already admitting that you don't know much about this dog except what the previous owner has told you and you still seem unsure as to how to interpret that.

You are still welcome to hang around and anyone here, I'm sure, would be willing to help you in any way we can, but you have to understand (speaking for myself here) that I am totally honest and upfront. I do not say things just because it's what someone wants to hear. If you want links to exhibitors, rescues, etc., just say the word. I'm not anti-breeding. I'm anti-irresponsibility. Don't just look for justification for what you WANT to do. Dig a little deeper and you may just find that you can be happy with a $2000 [b]pet[/b] Golden Retriever.

You may not respond, but you will read this. PM me if you feel you can't post and I will gladly pass along links to RESPONSIBLE Golden Retriever breeders, rescues, etc. I still want to believe you are just ignorant (not meant to be in the derogatory sense) and not just apathetic.

Call me an optimistic cynic...

[Hobbit]

HF --- this Bud's for you, Babe! :drinking:
:wink:

[Guest Anonymous]

Wasn't going to post but WOW....HF that was amazing..Something everyone should read...I applaud you !!

[Hobbit]

Hey Jacsmom....tried appauding, but kept spilling!! :drinking:

HF -- that was a very good post, by the way.

[Guest Anonymous]

:drinking:

Must be Miller Time (although I prefer Bud, but the drink is for HORSEFEATHERS)...what ever you want, girlfriend! :wink:

[Guest roo]

This topic has had its ups and downs.

but i think that out of all of it we have had
some brilliant posts, much soul seaching,
and lots of guts shown.

I think that anyone new to dogs, breeding etc
who reads this topic will have an awful lot to
think about.

I would like to thank everyone who has contributed
to it, good and bad :agrue:
as we have all said many times before it is the animals that
matter.

Roo

[Hobbit]

Well said Roo.

Well said Corgilady (sorry, I totally overlooked your post)! This Bud's for you also. :drinking:

I think we all handled that rather well and adult like. Are we good, or what?

8) 8)

[Guest roo]

[quote name='Hobbit']

I think we all handled that rather well and adult like. Are we good, or what?

8) 8)[/quote]

I think it was very grown up :lol:
[size=1]Can we go and play on the swings now!!!!!!!!!!!!![/size]

[Guest Anonymous]

Sorry Roo can't go have to go shovel!!! :o :lol: :lol:

[corgilady]

[quote name='Hobbit']Well said Roo.

Well said Corgilady (sorry, I totally overlooked your post)! This Bud's for you also. :drinking:

[/quote]

Whyyyyy ssssshank youuuuu Hobbitt-y :drinking: :drinking: :drinking:

but IIIIII wassssss alreadddddyyyyy helpingggg Horsefeathersssssssss

:drinking: :drinking: :drinking: :drinking: :drinking:

[Hobbit]

[quote name='roo'][quote name='Hobbit']

I think we all handled that rather well and adult like. Are we good, or what?

8) 8)[/quote]

I think it was very grown up :lol:
[size=1]Can we go and play on the swings now!!!!!!!!!!!!![/size][/quote]


Yes!! I will bring cup-cakes, if you bring the ice cream. :D

[Guest Anonymous]

The abandoned Chow mix (Teddy) I took in for a year didn't understand where to "go" the first day or two. He had full run of our home, so had him outside often for potty breaks. He'd never "go", until he noticed the cat "go" in the litter pan, he began using the litter pan for both "jobs". He'd lift his leg, and pee into it. When it was time for "no. 2" he'd have his back half in the box, front end out. This dog was soooo eager to please, believe me. I eventually trained him to go outdoors, figuring most people would not appreciate a medium size dog going potty in their house, even if in a litter pan.

Connie

[Guest Anonymous]

Ebby,

Ummmmm...you safely "relocated" your dog that was threatened and you feared for his life...[b]DOWN THE ROAD[/b]!? Hello!? Yeah, they'll never get him there. Sh*t! Naw, don't believe he was threatened at all. Besides, someone threatens my dog, they better watch their [b]OWN [/b]a$$!!! :mad:

Connie

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='"StarGaze
BTW, this is sort of what I mean about Egg.
[/quote']

Who is Egg?

[Guest Anonymous]

"Egg" is a young member of this forum. She has trouble, but she's willing to learn and wants to do the right thing. I respect that. It's a long story, you would have to find the thread. I don't remember which thread. :oops:

Connie

[Guest roo]

EBBY,DOGWHISPERER,GONETOTHEDOGS, AND OCCASIONAL GUEST

IF YOU READ THE WOULD YOU CHAIN YOUR DOG UP POST YOU WILL SEE
JUST WHY YOUR ABOVE POST HAS BEEN DELETED.

ROO

[Hobbit]

Darn, I missed it!

Ebby --- just stop. You are not going to win at this. If you want to be civil and talk dogs, then lets do it. If not, please go to [url]www.barkingbuddies.com[/url] because you would fit right in there.

We might not always get along, but we try to be honest with each other and respectfull to each other and ALL share a passion and love for our dogs. Is that so hard to understand?

[corgilady]

[quote name='Hobbit'] please go to [url]www.barkingbuddies.com[/url] because you would fit right in there.
[/quote]

[color=blue] :lol: [size=2]snicker [/size] :lol:

And, you are welcome here under your OWN name. We all disagree from time to time, and it's ok. RIGHT??????[/color]

[Hobbit]

[quote name='corgilady'][quote name='Hobbit'] please go to [url]www.barkingbuddies.com[/url] because you would fit right in there.
[/quote]

[color=blue] :lol: [size=2]snicker [/size] :lol:

And, you are welcome here under your OWN name. We all disagree from time to time, and it's ok. RIGHT??????[/color][/quote]


Yep, agree.

Like me and Corgilady disagree over that she should breed her Corgis to Mastiff's. :lol: