True_Pits

My ID was ohyeahme, but I never got to post! :( I had really good things to say too. Just plain and simple facts! I registered and it kept saying I didn't have permission to post. I even logged in and it said I was logged in after I activated my account. So fustrating. But you know people are ignorant when they say 99% of Pit Bulls are trained to be vicious..lmao. and some of the other "facts" they made up. Lol people will lie, I'm surprised they don't get struck by lighting. How can some one with a consious out right lie and make up BS? Shows a lack of intellect and maturity. how I wish I could post, cant believe its locked now :evil:

I registered by it still wouldnt let me post.

I have some new dog show picks to share. 1st place CH of CH [img]http://a0.cpimg.com/image/24/19/39649060-c5bd-018C0122-.jpg[/img] [img]http://a0.cpimg.com/image/38/1A/39649080-a90c-011C0101-.jpg[/img] 2nd place CH of CH I really loved this dogs color!!! [img]http://a8.cpimg.com/image/00/18/39760128-191b-0120012E-.jpg[/img] Ven [color=red]2nd place[/color] So proud of my boy!!! Some weight pull pics [img]http://a4.cpimg.com/image/64/1C/39649124-1e2e-0269012B-.jpg[/img] 3rd place [img]http://a9.cpimg.com/image/91/1D/39649169-2b29-0203013F-.jpg[/img] 1st place Thse two are littermate sisters [img]http://a7.cpimg.com/image/A9/3F/39650217-2759-02740161-.jpg[/img] 1st place 1/2 brother to the above 2 [img]http://a6.cpimg.com/image/A2/1E/39649186-4ba6-022E016D-.jpg[/img] These two are also littermates [img]http://a0.cpimg.com/image/A6/1E/39649190-2100-01F7011A-.jpg[/img] 1st place

How is your dog bred? I've been itching to make a poll for about a week now, I just couldn't think of a topic. Now an idea popped in my head to make a poll about the way everyones dog(s) are bred. When voting you can also give more info about the dog. Why/how you picked the dog you got. How important was pedigree? Bloodline? Breeding? How did you finally choose the breeder? rescue? Shelter? What drew you to the dog? Include any story/info about the dog you'd like. I procided a brief discription beside the poll choices and will also elaborate more here. The choices were as follows. Inbred-Dogs closely related are bred together in an attempt to strengthen the line and increase on the positive traits of a great individual dog. Such as a female being bred to her son who exibits these same positive traits, to increase these traits in the offspring and stack and match genes to do so. Inbreeding is a very good tool in a breeding program when used correctly. Eliminating health/structural problems with a pure family not allowing any unknown factors that could be negative to spoil the line. It is also a great test to any line of dogs, as inbreeding can bring forward negative traits and problems to a line. A line that is bred pure for many gens without problems shows how truly strong this line is. Where other breedings give you bad results and increasing negative. These faults may have showed up anyway in future linebreeding or even outcross and scatterbreeding by genes that were still contained in these others dogs or the results of all around poor breeding. Breeding is a great tool to use. However it is also practiced by those who shouldn't be breeding at all. Without proper breeding knowledge and without knowledge on their own dogs, they are putting future potenial offspring at risk and destroying line of dogs before its ever started and helping to ruin breeds. One reason it may be practiced is to save this type of breeder $$ on breeding along with bringing in more $$. As they may do a breeding keep an offspring and breed it to its parent while also breeding the parents and again and continue again and again. Doing this eliminates stud fees or the need to buy another dog. This can yield some of the worse possible offsrping with serious defects. Linebred-Dogs that are related through a single common ancestors, a form of loose inbreeding, not so close as parent/child, sibling, 1/2 sibling. Linebreeding cousins, uncle to neice, aunt to nephew, grandparent to grandchild, great grandparent or great, uncle/aunt, ect. Line breeding is another good and successful tool. Linebreeding also stacks and builds upoin traits of the dogs and lines. It keeps consistency of a bloodline by breeding dogs of this line exhibiting positive traits known of the line with one another. Outcrossed-Breeding dogs of two different bloodlines together to achieve a combination of the positive traits of each line. Outcrossing is a very successful method of breeding, taking linebred and inbred dogs of two bloodlines and crossing them. A 3 way cross is 2 dogs of 3 bloodlines being bred to one another to achieve a 2-way cross. This is done in an effort to acheive positive traits of these dogs which they possess from their line(s) Scatterbred-scatterbred is a dog bred of many lines, often times of which no common ancestors exist and lines may be completly unknown. Other times their may be known lines, however there are many different lines. The dog will have common ancestors, line breeding behind them however decending from several different lines will increase less likelyhood of the dog possessing the known traits of that line and its all one big guess at how the dog(s) will turn out. It is less predictable then the above 3 mentioned forms of breeding. A dog of this bred to another will be unlikely to produce like itself even if it possesses good traits. This is one breeding form that is most often used by bybs/amatures (except for those dangerously inbreeding) as they will breed their two pets together who they have no clue about, will breed to the other dog they think looks good/cute or whatever, or breed to some one who offers their male for stud. This involves no pedigree research (if the dog is even registered) as well as very little if any other form of research at all. The pups from this resulting breeding will likely go through the same process and again dogs will be bred to just any other dog from around town. Inbred/Linebred Scatterbred-This is a scatterbred dog who may or may not have recognizable lines, it is just as the first mentioned scatterbred description, however a scatterbred dog may have been bred back to his mother in an effort to improve upon her positive traits that her son seems to possess. This is very risky and unkown health factors may come into play and produce very poor quality dogs without knowing which genes are coming from where and the negative traits involved. Very dangerous to attempt. Linebreeding may be a better way to go, but it is much harder to still yield the consistency of a line and will require more culling. Unkown-Dogs of unknown breeding and history. These dogs can be bred anyway, however this is unknown as no pedigree history is available.

[quote]I still say Pit Bulls should be banned.! I have had dogs all my life including German Shepherds. Great Danes and many others and they were all loveable to me and my family. But let a stranger approach and they would growl, it is bred into them to protect and I think that Pit Bulls have been bred to be fighting dogs. All dogs worth their salt will attack if the owner or family member are threatened by strangers. I love dogs and Pit Bulls can't help how they are trained but they should not live near families, especially with children around. They are dangerous.[/quote] Wow I might have to check out how stupid people are, they get less and less intellegent everyday, so much for evolution. I also find this quote completly odd. Okay, its fine and even good for a dog to growl at a stranger and a dog worth its salt will attack and protect its families. While pits who are dog aggressive are so dangerous? Any who are trained bad can't help that, yet they are dangerous in general? Forget the closed minded jerks and media morons we all know they are full of BS, but how can some one make such an utterly confusing and non-sense filled statement???? Its just deeply puzzles me!

I'd have to say Ditto there. Also that I learned something awhile back. "Alligator Pits" are just big, poorly conformed pits. I think I was told people just want to breed them and say they have an "aaligator pit" to be cool, like a status symbol. Because I was really having trouble with the whole AP thing, I kept asking what an AP was but the people who had them didn't have the answers. Can you post the pedigree on your female? No one else to date has put up an AP pedigree. They claim it to be a line, but I was informed its actually a look that they breed for and peddle pups off of.

That is an awesome card!!!

AllAmericanPup I totally understand your post and what you are saying. All the stupid reasons people get rid of dogs are usually caused by the people themselves. However I think I understand where the other poster is going. Now all dogs usually chew at some point in their life, some might even have SA or be animal aggressive. But like you said you know a lot of people with dogs from good breeders that have these problems, these were caused by the [b]owners[/b] and not where the dogs came from. Now when you get a rescue it has these problems and bad habits from its previous conditions. When you get a pup from a breeder you don't have all these problems, you just have to not be lazy, raise and train the dog right. Thats now going to guarantee the dog isn't going to chew as a puppy. However some dogs from shelters there may be almost no way to house break them, they could have unpredictable fear aggression, they could be very unruly. They could have so many problems from just being in the shelter that they could be going stir crazy and their condition deteriorating, making them a really unsafe dog to adopt and one that probably couldn't be helped by training. Maybe sometimes, but others are too far gone and even some who could be saved would require A LOT of work and a professional behaviorlist. Of course there are plenty of worth while dogs in the shelter and its sad that not all of them are really adoptable and there will never be enough homes for all dogs in this world. But there are lots of great dogs to choose from. But again there is a major difference between a shelter dog and a dog from a reputable breeder in terms of overal quality. I'm not putting down shelter dogs for their previous owners stupidity and laziness in raising them or there poor breeding, but when you look at it bybs and reputables are very different in quality and even gettting a pup from a byb might be a better chance at a better adult the way you raised it. But not any type of quality guarantee with poor breeding giving you poor health and temperament. I think most of the things listed are obviously the fault of the previous owner or very poor breeding, you could easily get a dog from a reputable breeder and make it out to have those problems and some are normal dog "problems" that just need to be dealt with by training the puppy, but for me bad habits are not the biggest things, as they are with poor temperaments (sometimes made worse by previous conditions/breeding) and poor health. I just lost a byb at the age of 6 yrs old, bad health and she's had it her whole life (well after the age of 2 or so) also had some temperament problems and I don't look forward to ever doing that again. The thing is I loved her a lot, truly did and she was one of my best companions ever, makes losing her so young hurt even worse and always having to see her with some type of problem. I just found out today about a Rottweiler with [b]bad[/b[ HD, now they got the dog from a byb so what you expect. She's about 7 or 8 and has been a dog with a great temperament and personality, but she's always had some few minor health problems including terribly bad flea allergies. And reactions to flea control products! Now she has bad HD, she can't even stand up, she'll probably be put down here in the next few days. Poor girl. Now my point with all this is if she had ever been dumped for whatever reason (the people who have her are the original owners who have had her since 6 weeks), if she was lucky enough to get adopted from the shelter some one else would be having to go through this problem. I'm not saying don't adopt them, DO I advocate rescue they need homes. But there really IS a difference and people should have the right to choose if they want to go to a reputable breeder because they do something with their dogs or just want a better guarantee on a pups health and temperament. Or they should be looking at rescues and shelters, hopefully never to a byb!!! Thats giving them you money when you could get a shelter dog for much cheaper UTD on shots, altered, ect. With all that said I don't get shelter dogs, but I do rescue dogs of all breeds. I'll take any dog in that needs help and to be rehomed or I'll keep one for an extended period of time without looking for a new home, just keeping the dog and letting live a good life, even if I don't end up being its forever home.

Oh I'm sorry desertlady...lol I even meant to put that at the end of my post...hehe 5'3" here

3, I understand where you are coming from, your only thanking some one who helped you change your view on the breed and taught you something about Pit Bulls, then people come on saying read this and do this. They are only trying to warn you or others about the true RnP, even though it may not be related to what he's done for you. Which really makes it worse, its worse when some one with knowledge, education and one who knows whats right/wrong, responsible and irresponsible to go out and be irresponsible, to lie and to do everything opposite of what they've said. It so much for compared to some moron off the street being a puppymill then some one who KNOWS completly and full well what they are doing wrong and talks bad about everyone else doing it. Now I wasn't here for the whole RnP thing and I'm a new member, but I understand what they are trying to get across. You can lie on the net, but its still wrong. You don't really know eachother but put trust in eachother as human beings. I have a few friends I've never met face to face, but I talk to them frequently online and have built a relationship with them this way. You feel you know the people on the otherside, you know about them, their beliefs, likes and dislikes and hope they are being honest. To have some one lie to you and say a dog is stolen, for you to CARE even though you've never personally met them, to HELP try and FIND this dog that they've only lied and use for byb it does really hurt people. Its the same as a friend you have met telling you the same story, putting up lost posters, ect only to find out its all a big lie. What this RnP person did was wrong because they lied and deceived everyone. What they are doing now is wrong BYB. Breeding those things and calling them APBTs is just ridiculous, those dogs shouldn't be bred ever. They are nothing like what an APBT should be and this person just breeds to make an income thats pretty sick. Something I'll never agree with, besides the lying and whatever else happened, I wasn't apart of that and it doesn't effect my opinion of this person. What does is the fact that i hate peddlers and want to put a stop to all bybs. I also don't like the fact that they are toting these dogs around and claiming them as APBTs. And some one didn't do a very good job cropping those dogs ears, seems they weren't done correctly, but thats just a minute point. Regardless they're a byb, with good information it seems yes, maybe they should put some of their knowledge to good use instead of doing everything opposite.

[quote]Id like to know where the parents are and if they know what an idiot child they have! Geez that kills me to no end when I see kids handlings dogs like their objects and when parents arent around to do anything about it!!![/quote] I think, unfortunatly, they are also probably idiots. Kids usually do what their parents do and sometimes when left alone they get carried away because they are only children. But I bet she learned it all from them. Esp the thing about Your lucky this is only on 7, she probably hears that from mom and dad all the time when they are abusing him with the thing. Think about the true idiots, leaving the child with the dog and the control to the shock color. irresponsible owners, teaching their children the same!

Hurricanes, my prays are with all those enduring the hurricane season. Hope everyone and there dogs stay safe. I should consider myself lucky with 15 or so mins of rain sunday night. Last Labor Day I had a show and it rained just about [b]all[/b] day saturday. But Sunday was nice and hot. [i]Miss J[/i] yes those are my dogs in my sig and my dog in my avatar.

Thanks a lot for your response. [quote]Most of the IWPA people I know are using fully enclosed kennels, Chain link, 15x15 or so and ~ 6-8 ft high...Doggie aint getting outta those..LOL[/quote] I have a few kennels, they really work great for pups. Although dogs can get out of that, height isn't the only issue as their is more ways to get out besides jump. I had a nice, big, kennel that size once. [img]http://a3.cpimg.com/image/C3/FE/39076803-8526-01580112-.jpg[/img] [img]http://a9.cpimg.com/image/BF/FD/39076799-1b81-014E00FB-.jpg[/img] But I do think they are great and I've got a couple dogs chain inside kennels and use them for puppies. [quote]For tie outs some are using railroad ties either vertical or rebarred into the ground with winch cable (Strong and light...with a swivel makes a GREAT tie out and can be used on Runners too) for the tie out, or Runners....Besides the kennels, the Runners seem the most popular...Axles are just seen as over kill, unless of course you are using Civic axles and then you are on your own...LOL[/quote] [img]http://a3.cpimg.com/image/27/01/39076903-6738-01F20167-.jpg[/img] How are axles seen as over kill? I mean why? Aren't they like any stake in the ground. Railroad ties?! That does sound like they would really work, like chaining a dog to a tree, they are probably not going to come out of the ground. But I'd much rather hammer a little axle in the ground for 5 mins, something that small, low to the ground and easy to "install" then mess with a railroad tie, but thats just me and I'm sure that railroad ties work great. I also had some one suggest to me the use of cables from a tractor supply store vs chains. I think these would work great if and hold up well, except for chewers. They had St Bernards and Mastiffs on them, I think. Nothing compared to a bulldog, but I bet they would still hold up good for them. Again thanks for your response, its always nice to hear about "new" or different ideas of keeping dogs.

I don't think he was trying to degrade shelter dogs. I hope you don't feel that way. I know I would never, because I've owned all different types of dogs. But they usually come from bybs and if bybs are lesser quality that means shelter dogs are. I don't mean that in a degrading way, I mean there is more of a chance for them to have a health problem (and I've had my fair share from bybs and rescue dogs I've had) and sometimes temp problems. Theres more of a chance with a rescue to have some sort of bad habit (that is probably the fault of the dumb previous onwer) then even a pup directly from the byb. If byb breed such great dogs then I guess theres no need for rep breeders to prove their dogs can do anything. I think you can get a good dog from the shelter, shelter dogs can do SCH, can do agility, flyball, service work, police work, movie actors, and many other things, among being good pets. But getting a dog from a breeder is more of a better insurance for health and temperament and even work. I just remembered the story I've told once before, well it goes a black lab/hound cross didn't pan out as a hunting dog, they talk about how stupid it is, ect. How they thought it would be a great hunting dog because its a labXhound. This to me is funny two dogs, probably from bybs, have a litter together and now the pups are supposed to be A+ hunters. Not to mention they are both "hunting" type breeds, but two different kind of hunters a retreiver and a tracker. It could work, maybe one out of the litter would have been a great retriever, but buying a retriever bred by a breeder is probably going to be a good retreiver and thats more then one in the litter. TONS may do SCH, and TONS could never do SCH or possible other activities because of their poor breeding and/or previous environment. I agree with the weight of the chains, some people use very heavy chains and it is damging to the neck and vertebre, as well they use weighted collars which do a lot of damage. Even worse some people put heavy chain on pups, talk about stupid. One guy put a 30lbs chain on a puppy. No adult should be wearing a chain like that, let alone a pup who can't even move with it on. What do they use instead of axles? That does stay in the ground and works. Besides a school bus..lol I don't have any of those laying around. I'm still wondering what some people see wrong with axles, a tie out is a tie out. I had one on a post (it was like a fence post hammered into the ground), never pulled it out of the ground, but she jumps a lot. So its dangerous for her to come down on this post and secondly she got off it because unlike axles its just a post and doesn't have an area wider then the diameter of the part steaked into the ground. Its the same size all around so if she jumps really high the chain comes clear off. Now she jumps and it hits the top of the axle no worry. Last time when she got free she went to the front and ate a whole bag of cat food! She was so fat, she is a big eater, always has been, eats everything in site....lol

Those are all great pics!!!! Not picking Dobies! I hate biased judges:roll: And Dobies happen to be one of my fav breeds. I need to finish scanning my Iowa show pics, when I get time, maybe later tonight. We took Best Of Show. I'll get the pics up.

I really care about my breed, thats one reason I do breed. Maybe you don't realize how much it takes to breed. To be heavily involved in rescue and neglect your own dogs just doesn't make sense. Then you wouldn't be considered a very good dog owner. Of course doing the right things with your dogs and taking care of them just isn't enough is it? Because its not helping those pups in a shelters? No it isn't responsible breeders fault, so why should they badgered for it or for not doing anything about it. Why aren't the irresponsible breeders targeted, why is action not taken against them. Why isn't energy put into stopping these breeders and puppymills. There is only so much rescue you can do because their are [b]not enough[/b] available homes, if every breeder rescued there still wouldn't be no where to rehome the dogs they didn't keep. Think about it when each person needs to own 9 dogs for them all to have homes, that won't happen. Some people don't own or like dogs at all, many don't have time or facilities to own that many pets and thats just per person for a family of 4 that is 36 dogs. Rescue as many as you can and thats all you can do. Just about any breeder I know would take a litter of pups, to raise and rehome them. Regardless of taking in a litter or a rescue dog to rehome it, they always eat the cost of breeding, the couple pups they might sell doesn't near touch the cost of breeding and goes back into the dogs. I can't think of a breeder who wouldn't take a dog in need in and help it. I think a lot of misplaced anger is put on breeders. They shouldn't have to do anything at all and it wouldn't mean they didn't love the breed, but they do (they love all dogs) because they simply love dogs and do all they can for them. When they find a stray or see a dog in need they HELP it regardless of its breed, they breed Pits and are taking in a Lab or Sheltie because they love dogs. It has nothing to do with loving your breed, its about being a caring person and taking care of animals like we(as humans) should be. When I can't help a dog or take a pup, I try to find some one else who can and I cantact breed specific rescue to take them. Especially ones with potenial, they have the power to take dogs out of shelters also, so finding a wonderful prospect is great when you contact them and they get the dog in a home. Now if they have a non caring attitude then that would piss me off too! If they can see a stray pup with mange and just walk by and "feel sorry" for it, instead of picking it up, taking it home and getting it cared for and in a good home. Actually it has nothing to do with breeders if [b]any[/b] person or pet owner does this it would make me mad. Not just breeders, if you own dogs, love dogs, but would do nothing for a dog in need instead say, poor pup he got hit by a car and doesn't have a home......that to me is inhuman, seeing a need and not doing anything about it, whether your a breeder or not. And if you are not, then you probably have room, time, ect, for just one pup. So I don't see it as doing your share for your breed, dogs need help, dog lovers with the means should help them, regardless of the dogs breed or if the person is a breeder or not. [quote]Not being part of the problem is not enough- if these 'responsible breeders' really care about their breed, they would be heavily involved in rescue (And I know some are) Taking back a dog of your own breeding is NOT rescue. Volunteering at 2 or 3 adoption events a year is not 'heavily involved'. Showing your dogs, health testing your dogs, breeding the best to the best - yeah, that's all fine and well. It helps your puppies, it helps the people who buy your puppies, but it does jack squat for the dog in the shelter who had the misfortune of being born in a red neck's barn instead of your clean whelping room, and of being sold to the first joe with 500 bucks instead of a carefully screened home. And no, it isn't the fault of a 'good breeder', but too many 'good breeders' act like there is nothing they can do about it. "Oh, isn't it a shame - that poor little thing. He needs someone to treat his mange and get him pretty again so he can find a new home. It really is too bad.." Yeah, too bad you don't really care about your breed. I know everyone has their limits - no one can rescue every labrador or every beagle, and I don't expect them too. But I'd love to see more of them saying 'You know what, I am going to just eat all the costs myself on this litter and donate the money from the pups to breed rescue so they can vet those 3 dogs they just rescued from from the shelter', or 'We have a lot of experience with whelping and puppy raising and won't be having a litter of our own for a while - next time you get in a litter or a bitch about to whelp, we'll foster them'. Forgive me if you're one of those breeders who really is doing their share for dogs of their breed (not just the betterment of their breed).[/quote]

[quote][quote]Breeders should not breed their bitches until at least, a minimum of 3 years of age. This may be different for the toy breeds, I'm not sure. Then the breeder should wait until those pups are at least 2 years old and all pertinent health information is done on the pups to see if there are any genetic diseases or health issues.[/quote] While I agree with most of what you said, it really depends on which breed you're dealing with. With bull terriers, I feel 3 is a little old to having a first litter. The 3rd season is ideal, and any bitch over 6 years is a little too old to be breeding from MTCW[/quote] I agree that it depends on what breed you have when it comes to ages. I don't think 3 is too old or too young for a first litter. 8 years is probably okay for their last litter. So it depends on what breed you have to judge ages correctly, on terrificpets they were saying how anyone who would breed a 6 yr old or a dog over 6yrs was sick. So everyone has their own opinions and differences in breeding ages.

This is a nice and surprising post. I thought it was only me who didn't think ALL labs were just the perfect dog. Over population and poor breeding makes bad dogs. I also noticed so many aggressive dogs and an increase in bites and attacks, and too have noticed most are black labs (weird). Last year a boy was badly attacked by a black lab and the news reported it as a pit bull!!! :evil:

I dont think its a bad idea. Now I don't believe that responsible breeders are the problem at all. I know they weren't targeted but when you think about it, if responsible breeders stopped breeding all the accidents, bybs, and mills would still be in oporation and you wont get anything voluntary out of them. If there was a law that said NO ONE could breed for a 2yr period every decade I woulnd't have a problem with it, I dont think it would hurt anything really, it would probably decrease population a lot. Millions and millions of dogs are born every year so it could only help in that case. The idea that I think is the best however is stopping bybs and irresponsible pet owners. This way ALL those breedings never happen. Starting something national and working its way up. Like first you MUST confine bitches in heat and encouraging spaying of pets and enforcing the law. We have an ordinace that says females in season must be confined but the law does nothing about it and I know of many "accidental" breeding, a few of the females having 3-5 litters think about how many pups that is and how many of those will go on with the same life. So having a law like this and enforcing it, and fining the owners a big one would be great. And MORE with EACH offence. The fine would outway the cost of getting the dog fixed and hopefully get them to wise up. Then stopping byb and puppymills. A minimum breeding age could be set, most byb dont care how young the dogs are (some do) and puppy mills they really dont care. Minimum breeding age may not do a lot, but would save an animal from more risk that come with being bred too young and stop pups from coming for a while and adding a limit to the number of litters they have that could really help a lot. A lot of puppmill females have litters EVERY heat until they die and thats a lot of pups. All breeding dogs MUST be registered, not I know not everydog reg dog is worth breeding, but this would help keep track of how many litters the dog has, at what age and how many were in each litter. I think that buyer education is also imporant. Because a lot of buyers dont know the different between bybs and responsible breeders. They have no idea. So if we deter them and teach them to look for the signs they can buy from responsible breeders OR adopt a dog from a shelter and give it a 2nd chance as a pet. Bybs is a bad cycle, a byb sells to another byb who breeds and sells to another owner who becomes a byb. Some encourage it, some one will go looking simply for a pet and the breeder will say you can bring her back when she comes in heat and breed her to one of my males, or whens he's older you can put him up for stud and make some money.....they encourage others to do the same with the pups they have breed. also responsible breeders need to open themselves up some, at this time I dont think that is a safe or good idea. But on another board some one made a very good point that responsible breeders dont openly make themselves available to the public. If they don't advertise dogs then its hard for some one to find them and buy from them, or if they had all their dogs already in homes then where do people go to find a pet bybs. But if you do advertise and do sell to general public, how do you know, even with very good screening and contracts sometimes one dog slips, some one was a very good con artist and has a puppy mill some where out in the woods or they just decide they don't feel like honoring your contract and turn out to be some one different. I dont want to take that chance, but it was a good point. Maybe encouraging them to look in shelters would help? Another reason some people go to bybs is because they are intimidated by the reputable ones.

I hope Labor Day weekend has gone well for most and the weather decent. It rains every labor day weekend it seems. It just started pouring out of the blue, hard too, had to cut walking short but was already a little over a half mle out so I got soaked.

I feel much better knowing that not everyone thinks chaining a dog up is cruel. I understand if the dog is neglected and a lot on chains are, but you can't judge everyone because of irresponsible owners. I've seen first hand some sad dogs on chains, of course I've also seen them kept in crates or starved in kennels. I'm not saying what I do is for everyone, but for me axles are the safest. Seeing the Boxer I saw on animal chained with a huge chain, wrapped around a tree and very skinny, chained in the mud, left out in the rain with no shelter I can see how that could turn some one off, but its not he fact the dog was chained, it should be that the owner chained it up and left it there to fend for itself. The owner is simply irresponsible, cruel and heartless leaving a cold dog, starving to death. On a different I have a great interest in schutzhund (among other things) and was thinking of participating at one time, but i doubt I have time because of the dogs I have. I would be using a breed suited for it such as a Shepherd. I would have loved to have done schutzhund before I rescued a Shepherd, purebred, with papers, from working lines, but the dog would have never been a good candidate as he was never socialized, had no confidence and very bad seperation anxiety. It took forever for him to come out of his shell and the dog got a very good home with a very experienced shepderd owner. It would have been nice to do something like schutzhund with this dog, especially since he was wellbred and had the lines for it, but like a lot of other rescues his environment effected him greatly. He didn't have any human contact, bare minimum just feeding him was the only time he saw a person. Its very sad. I watched Animal Cops (or one of those shows) dogs were kept in a vacant home and the owner came by to feed them, thats the only contact with people they had, one of them turned not to be adoptable because the lack of socialization he recieved, luckily this shepherd turned out alright, but the dog on the show really reminded me of him and his situation.

Okay then

Why, thank you!

[quote]Maybe this is true... but YOU could stop byb breeding... And you COULD help dogs dying in shelters... By not breeding, and not buying from breeders you could rescue dogs that would otherwise die in shelters... You obviously have room for a hoard of them.[/quote] Those are good points, but you can't stop bybreeding. There will be no end to it. I have stopped some from byb and making good choices and got them to think about what they were wanting to do and the outcome if they would breed. But thats just the tip of the iceburg. The average APBT I owner I have met wants to breed their dog. Not just APBTs but so many dog owners want to breed their dog, even just once or already has. Some to make money and some because their dog is well behaved or pretty. Some people there is no changing their minds, but others are still undecided and will listen if you talk it over with them. Whether I breed or not, would do little to help dogs dying in the shelter. These dogs are already here, and yes they need homes BUT some one looking for a show dog or just a wellbred companion isn't going to find or look for them in a shelter. I think I have done enough to rehome dogs and I don't plan to stop but its not everyone cup of tea to rescue dogs, just the same as its not everyones to breed. Some breed, some rescue, some own pets, ect. If that is your choice fine by me, but you shouldn't expect everyone else to have the same calling in life. I could rescue, but I'd rather buy from a good breeder and know that the dog will almost 100% be healthy and does have a great temperament. Represents the breed which isn't something you find too much from a shelter because they are mostly byb dogs. They are not bred for breed type or standard. You get dogs that dont look like APBTs and some that act very little like one. Some have problems from never being socialized or inborn fear only make worse by their previous environment others have health problems. For those who are not so concerned with these issues their are shelters and rescues. I always make it a point to try and get people to check here, before they start finding bybs to buy from. I also believe that some people want a dog with papers, I'm not saying a wellbred dog from a reputable breeder, they just want to say my dog is registered. Which is very childish in my opinion. They could get a pup from the shelter just the same quality as from a byb, only difference is it won't have papers and its hard to make them understand that simply having papers doesn't make them better. Proper breeding is important to continue a breed and make for the betterment of the breed. The lesser dogs of the breed in rescues and shelters will never diminish because of greed (money) and selfishness (I want my dog to have pups so I can one like her). Its great for those who choose to only get dogs from rescues or take them out of shelters. More people need to be lead this way, instead of picking up the newpaper and browsing the classifieds. [quote]I can't speak for Sashagirl but if I wanted to keep two dogs seperated in my home I would use doors, crates, close supervision and solid training.[/quote] I'm also glad that this would work out for you, but not for me and I choose not to do it. I only know of one breeder who does and to me its not fair for the dogs. My dogs actually like being outside and would much rather be out then in a crate. I'm not locking them in rooms either. Some people use baby gates when they can and I think thats a better option if your able to do it. You do whats good for yours and I'll do whats good for mine. Keeping my one female inside, that would probably be "cruel" in her eyes, she's had to endure it before when she's in heat and I'm sure she doesn't understand why she's got to be in the house all the time.

The bloodlines I'm working with are Redboy/Jeep/Rascal, Bolio/Tombstone/RedBoy/Jocko and I also have Hemphill/Wilder/Clouse with some Bozo-Saltydog that is linebred stuff from a very close friend. Will probably outcross that in future to Rascal/Jeep or Jeep/Homer.