BuddysMom

[quote name='Hmmmm']People have already taken the game out of the dogs by breeding and we got the American Staffie. I do not consider these to be the same breed as the APBT, and I dont consider them to be as stable. Have you noticed that when a pit bull is blamed for a bite it is usually a pit bull mixed with something else, or a cur bred pit bull? There are several things that put the APBT apart from other breeds but that main thing is gameness. And for myself, and most other APBT lovers, it is not acceptable, or very intelligent, to breed that out of them. Like I said, we already have them... AmStaffs, and (no offense to anyone with ASTs) IMO they arent anywhere near the dog the APBTs are.[/quote] That didn't really answer my question. I was not asking about breeding gameness out, that is a different debate. I'll ask again, are all non gamebred APBTs NECESSARILY human agressive? I mean, we know the game ones are not, but does that necessarily equate oppositely in the other direction? Yes there are bites to humans from "curs" but couldn't that be because they weren't even temprament tested ... the BYB factor? Also aren't the AmStaff and APBT very different breeds? I mean everyone who took the test you posted picked out the APBT adult from a lineup of 26 on the first try (except me, I got it on the sencond try) :oops: But still, I can point out an AmStaff versus an APBT. They look way different.

[quote name='Hmmmm'][quote name='BuddysMom']Again bk I agree ... and the breed does not need to cease to exist. Just make sure you are breeding out human agression. They are a wonderful breed, my neighborhood has 3 sweet and gorgeous ones and I am sure that not one of them is "game tested".[/quote] Gamebred APBTs dont have problems with human aggression.[/quote] Yes, we know that, you have helped to educate me about this. But NON-gamebred pits do not necessarily have a problem with human agression, do they? I mean. is it EITHER one is gamebred OR it is human agressive? Do you think gamebreeding is the only way to ensure a lack of human agression in the APBT? What if you temprement tested the parents as is done with other breeds?

Zoos are fine but I do think there is a lot of unnecessary research done with lab animals. I wish PETA would keep their fight to cruel and unnecessary animal testing, and factory farming. They should mind their own damn business about whelther I own pets, visit zoos, wear leather, and eat meat. Also some animal testing may be vital for advances in human medicine ... (that's a tough one for me) ... but that which the cosmetics companies do, and anything with dogs, cats, and primates I am against.

Again bk I agree ... and the breed does not need to cease to exist. Just make sure you are breeding out human agression. They are a wonderful breed, my neighborhood has 3 sweet and gorgeous ones and I am sure that not one of them is "game tested".

His first sentence was great. "If there were no primate deaths at Covington over the past few days, then this must be the first time in a long time that a monkey hasn't died." His next statements reveal him to be a hideous A-hole who does not deserve the right to speak for animal lovers anywhere.

[quote name='Irena']untill i done cheking myself for writing mistakes it's alredy 22 :o my god we breaking all records known to man, i never saw a thread so LONG with so many topics LOL[/quote] I understand what you're saying in spite of the "topics" (typos) :D Your last one was really a great double meaning, you meant to say creeps but you wrote crips, and the Crips are actually a nasty LA gang that probably does engage in dog fighting.

Standing, clapping, and cheering!

Border Collies' working abilities can be tested in a way that is not a felony.

[quote name='__crazy_canine__']Well, all that matters is you think my post was articulate! :lol: I could care less if people disagree with me. I expect it so whatever. :P[/quote] "Whatever" back atcha babe. Your posts are more than articulate, they are well thought out and you respect other people's opinins. Very cool. 8)

I'm sorry we offended the Ho Bag's fragile sensibility :lol: Oh my I hope she doesn't get the vapors! Seriously, It was a good little civil conversation, yes it was a re-hash of a re-hash etc. But I just really liked bk's post because it put into words what I have been thinking ... and I also like CC's post, it was very articulate even though I don't agree with some of what she's saying (other than maybe she shouldn't feel the way she does about it ... ya-DUH!) :fadein:

Very nice!

[quote name='bk_blue']I am sure this has been asked before, but anyway...why do we need "game" dogs? What is their purpose? Before you start rabbiting on about how there are lots of other dog breeds that have no particular purpose or are so far removed from their original purpose that it may as well not count, why do you need a dog-aggressive dog that you can't even keep legally in most parts of the world, or if you can keep them, are subject to so many restrictions it's not worth the effort? That if said dog makes one false move that may not be considered so bad in a different dog breed, it's curtains for that dog? That you have to keep separated from your other dogs, if you have them, most of the time? Why do you need a dog, if it is to be kept so true to the original intentions of the founders of the breed, needs to be *fought* to be considered worthy? Where is the allure in that? I will reiterate that dog fighting, no matter how much you try to pretty it up and say, "awww, it's done as humanely as possible etc etc etc", is still dog fighting and it's still [i]illegal[/i]. Just like rape. Rape is rape, no matter if it's because you're drunk or tired and can't be bothered fighting your boyfriend off or if some knife-wielding maniac grabs you down a dark alley.[/quote] YES!!!!!!!!!

Nice posts Kiwi, DP, CC and AAP. Just lurking here but it's nice to see this last page or so. :) [ edited to add CC, sorry I almost forgotcha!]

A good opportunity to make our $$ stretch, modest check in the mail ... thanks!

[quote name='Hmmmm'][quote]I read Hmmmm's explanation and I still don't agree that the ends justify the means. I really wonder, does Hmmmm actually mind being called a dog fighter - she admits to fighting her dogs? I think that calling Hmmmm a dog fighter is certainly no worse than calling Kiwi a BYBer and there is the possibility that what Kiwi told us about the early breeding is true and therefor there is a possiblity she might not be a BYBer, while Hmmmm IS a dog fighter. [/quote] I dont really enjoy being called a "dogfighter". But I understand why people who dont know/understand what I do call me that. It does tick me off when Im called a BYB. Especially if it because I test my dogs in the way they are supposed to be tested. It is the only way to assure I am breeding dogs that are worthy. There are some peoples opinions I really take into account but others I dont. I think everyone here can say the same thing. I do feel, however, that although noone here agrees with what I do some understand and do know I am not a BYB but am breeding for the good of American Pit Bull terriers. Oh... and I am getting sick of not being able to post my opinion without the way I TEST my dogs being brought up. It is something everyone here knows about, it has been debated long and hard SEVERAL times. I mean really, when is enough enough? Dont people get sick of talking about me? We all know what I do....[/quote] It HAS been debated several times, and thoroughly (as I can attest to the last one) :lol: and it appears to me tha just about everyone disagrees with the way you test your dogs, but you have been very civil and upfront about it. It just riles me when people get the impression that everone here thinks what you do is just dandy, when really it seems to me to be just a tiny minority (if any at all) who agree with it.

Thanks DO! :angel: It is so nice to get avice ESPECIALLY from you. We are hurting and I know it is not right to blame John. Thanks for giving the good concrete info.

Sorry this is about out kitty but I am positing here, I can relate it to dogs in that, it does happen with dogs (but not as often I think...) Anyway it is breaking my heart and would love some advice. Gladysse is 18. Her kidneys have neen going slowly (from old age). She drinks tons of water, eats very little but is very enhthusiastic about food, drink, and life in general. Annual vet visit was yesterday. She had lost 1 lb (from about 7 to about 6lb), and her kidney no's were a point or two higher. Her teeth checked out good. We were given these options: Leave her at vet w/IV for 3 days to "clean out blood" then do injections at home (about 5 min. per session, basically injecting fluids under her skin) Or just to do the injections ... Or do nothing and let her "fade out" on her own 'till she stops eating and drinking, and dies ... (which will happen anyway but maybe we can prolong it) This was hubby's kitty to begin with but I am so in love with her. I got mad B/C he wanted me to ask how much the added treatments would be. Yeah I know we should get all that info but I can't BELIEVE he would base a decision on $$$. Expecially, as I pointed out to him, he is spending $$$$ on concert festivals etc. I got rather pissed but now he says of course we will take care of kitty whatever it takes ... :evil: I am mad because, our good vet says we can help her and hubby wants to know what it will cost. Sorry but this has turned into a rant!

Well HF, I could be wrong, NOT that I take back my vote. My main reason for thinking troll is inconsistent info and seeming to blend / change identities.

I am so sorry for what you re going through .. :cry: Best wishes and keep us posted when you can!

I am NOT posting to this thread... I am NOT posting to this thread... I am NOT posting to this thread... :lol: :lol: :lol: OK I am too weak. Neom / M&V / Norma / banished ... Bans aren't imposed on people "we" disagree with ... hell, we all disagree with each other ALL the time. Bans are imposed on trolls, which is what you (or "all" of you) are. I vote ban on all of the above.

This exact thing happened in to a lady in my town, oevr the sale of a horse. (previous thread somewhere) .... she was not as savvy as you, and lost 16,000. It took a long time for her bank to realize the check was bad.

Aaaaaw, that's sweet. Good for Dad! :angel:

[quote name='pyrless']It will be okay, I promise. The beautiful thing is too, if you have to do this again in the future, they DO know you will be back for them. Have you ever considered an in-house dog-sitter? Ours is wonderful, and costs the same if not less than the kennel. She stays overnights, takes care of the cat for free, waters plants, takes in the mail, etc. you can go to the Pet Sitters International website for references. Also, our dog sitter is bonded and insured and knows pet 1st aid and CPR...[/quote] We are going to look into one for the kitty, but hadn't even thought of leaving B at home too. Something to think about! It's just that this kennel is SO wonderful.

I get it Mei! Thanks for the good advice. It may be harder on me than it is on him!

Thanks for the suggestions! He'll have his beddie. Greenies are a good idea because they take a bit of time to work on. The place is great, they give love and treats and let them out at least 5 times a day. He can go out with other dogs (our last dog could not because she was scrappy like me :lol: ) This is another time that I wish he had a sibling.