imported_Matty

I was at the pet store the other day. Believe me since they started selling puppies there I stopped going but this day I was desperate and didn't feel like driving an hour to get to my usual pet store. My dogs love those knucle (smoked) bones, and since I was going out for Xmas dinner I thought Id get them all one to keep them occupied while I was gone, and of course as their Xmas present :lol: any how, they had these pups in and being sold for $999.00 plus tax for JRT pups. A lady was in the middle of buying one of them, the employees were FINANCING the purchase of the pups with monthly payments :o Any way, I was a little ticked off, and maybe I shouldn't have opened my mouth and started some thing, but, I did :oops: I shouldn't do this because I really don't know what Im talking about and I ended up looking like a fool. I said to the women buying the JRT pup. "you know, you could get a purebred JRT for a lot cheaper from a REPUTABLE breeder" She just looked at me. I said "you know, those pups come from puppy mills, they are not very nice places" she said "well then I saved the pup" I said "No, you are promoting puppy mills, the more you buy the more they breed" She said "listen, the puppy was in a small cage, I saved him and I don't care what you say" she abruptly walked away while they were financing her for the purchase. I was in the line up and I said to the other clerk "its horrible that you people are selling pups at Christmas, you know they are impulse purchases" He said "yeah, well impulse purchases are our best form of sale and from my knowledge and our experience the pups get good homes and are well looked after, what you hear about not selling at Christmas is not true" Then I said "I just hate seeing puppy mill pups being sold and promoted" The manager was listening and said "These pups are not from puppy mills they are from reputable breeders" I was a little taken aback and didn't answer properly. I said "who is the breeder" the manager said "believe me they come from reputable breeders" I said " are they regestered? Manager "yes" I asked by which kennel club..manager replied that it was a reputable kennel club. I asked if they were health checked and guaranteed the manager said "yes, of course" then she got irrate and asked me to leave the store, then she turned to the customer and said how rude I was and it takes all kinds. :o Any way, I know that these pups are from puppy mills. I have a friend who bought a so called purebred from this pet store. It turned out to be just a mixed breed confirmed by her Vet. Supposed to be a Yorkie looked like an Austrian terrier mix and its big at least 12 inches at the should, kinda big for a Yorkie . They don't state any where on the paper work that the pups are purebred so you can't get them for false advertising. The pup is not healthy and its socially backwards. I think they get fearful from being behind the glass and only limited social interactions and from being away from mom. I wish know that I could have done the conversation different. I would have answered to the these pups come from a reputable breeder. I would have asked, "what kind of a reputable breeder would send there pups to a pet store to be sold by kids" Oh yea the manager also told me that I didn't have a clue as to what a puppy mill was and what a reputable breeder is. I wish I could have answered that by saying a reputable breeder has a waiting list, has references before selling a pup to a person. Asks questions, and makes sure the new potential owner KNOWS what they are buying and what to expect from the breed. A reputable breeder [i][b]WOULD NEVER LET A KID AT A PET STORE SELL THEIR PUPS![/b][/i] :evil: They don't just breed puppies for money, and they are kinda trying to improve the breed as a whole. They know their breed inside out and all the quirks good and bad. They don't just sell to the first person who can get credit. A reputable breeder makes sure a person can afford the pup and handle any emergency, not just some one who is living on credit. I was kinda worried about that girl buying the JRT, I never owned one before, but, I heard they can be high maintenance as far as exercise and predatory drives. I don't imagine the pet store employees even cared if she knew any of this :evil: I feel kiinda like an idiot now for starting some thing with the pet store manager :oops: I read a lot about puppy mills and stuff, but, when push comes to shove and I put myself into a corner my mind went blank. Then after I left then I started thinking about the things I wanted to say. It burns me up, maybe I shouldn't have opened my mouth, but, I was hoping to at least open 1 persons eyes and it upset me to see some one buying a pup on Christmas eve :-? I shouldn't set myself up to look like an idiot. Oh well, its over now. Should I go back with a cheat sheet and talk to the manager :lol: :wink:

How cute, those pups are going to be great adults having a great breeder to socialize them.

Are you talking about the Caucasian Ovcharka, if so they need a very skilled owner.

Before you order in a high priced stain remover try this. I'm just not sure if it would stain or not? [quote]Homemade Odor Remover Paul Krebaum, a chemist for the Molex Corporation in Lisle, Illinois, has developed a foolproof odor remover. This odor remover works on anything including decomposing organic matter, fecal matter, urine and skunk spray. This odor remover is made from simple household ingredients:1 quart of 3% hydrogen peroxide

I have read a few posts from other members who seem to have some good agruments against purebreds. So, what do you think is healthier Mongrels, crossbreds or purebreds.

I found out the hard way that dogs prone to bloat shouldnt be fed turkey :-? I read a reply on my post on bloat and I guess that Turkey is known to cause bloat cause its gassy. :-? So be careful this X-mas if you cook a turkey. Don't share if you have a bloat prone dog. ps, if any one know this one of my dogs almost bloated 3 times in the run of 1 week. I had changed him to Innova food, it turns out that Turkey is the main ingredient and was causing my boy to be gassy. I changed him back to wellness and he is doing 190% better and no more gas. I even added the same veggies to his food that I thought cuased his bloat in the first place...no gas from the veggies with his regular food. I wonder if Innova should be made aware of this?

[quote]He stole it, I had it first. [/quote] :lol: :lol: :lol: I stole it from the movie. :lol: did you see that movie with Kavik the wolf dog. I thought it was really good. Is that where you got the name. I find the name really suits my dog. (at least when people don't think Im calling him cabbage :-? :lol: )

Oh, I didn't realize that some one else had a Kavik. I got my name from the movie Kavik the wolf dog. Ever since I saw that movie as a child I thought the first dog (male) I get will be Kavik. I loved that movie. DP do you ever have people ask if you are calling your dog cabbage? I get that alot, people ask why did you name your dog cabbage. I must be pronouncing it wrong when Im calling my dog :lol: Just to update everyone on Kavik. I think it is the Innova dog food causing the gassy intestines :( I fed him only the Innova dog food mixed with Innova canned last night and he started salavating and licking about an hour afterward. Im changing him back to his wellness today to make sure. The pills the vet gave me work great for the gas. I also gave him some yogurt last night before bedtime.

[quote]Matty said: Quote: When I picked Kavik up Does that say what I think it says?[/quote] What do you mean? I didn't actually pick (lift) him up off the ground. :lol:

Could you maybe take some tasty leftover juice from a recently cooked meat and put the paste on your finger and brush over Kavik's teeth? maybe get him looking forward to the brushing time with yummy foods. What is wrong with his teeth? if he has an exposed nerve of course my idea won't work. Did you check out the videa I put into this site. K made it a sticky, I think its either under Health or Care. Here it is [url]http://www.peteducation.com/category_summary.cfm?cls=2&cat=2004[/url]

Thank you pyrless, you were a wonderful help. :wink: I guess when our dogs do some thing we havent seen before or that is not normal we can tend to over react :oops: I am very aware that my dog is going to be more prone to bloat now that he is getting gassy in his intestines. I will have to be very careful with him from now on. I am going to keep track of his diet and have a consultation with this new holistic vet to go over proper diet. I find this new vet is more into raw diet than kibble. He told me as well that even if I start trying to feed the dogs raw more often it would be a great help.

Actually TDG, I think I was feeding him too much Innova :oops: I was feeding him the same amount as his other food (wellness). 2 cups am 2 cups pm and 1/2 can of same brand mixed in :oops: When I picked Kavik up they told me to not mix protein with carbohydrates (starchy foods and grains) its ok to mix protein with ground up vegetables. This will prevent intestinal gas production. Keep tract of food which may trigger the episodes of salivation (ex certain vegetables, or wheat.) To help keep the intestinal linin healthy add 1 tbsp of plain low fat yogurt 1-2 times daily, and add 1/2 tbsp fibre (bran, or whole wheat type cereals) He also gave me a med called nux-vomica 30c and give about 5-8 granules at signs of indigestion (salvation, restlessness). [quote]bloat can be genetic. i've been discussing this with a breeder recently. this fact is the reason why many vets will not do a gastropexy after a bloat incident in a dog without spaying or neutering at the same time - because dogs who bloat shouldn't be bred and gastropexy would just hide the defect. examine the limitations of the insurance you get very closely. i'm also not sure if commercial pet food can be blamed all that much, it may play some role but overall i think the biggest problem is that dogs are bred to increasingly ridiculous extremes (bigger, heavier, deeper chests etc.), and from shrinking gene pools (due to closed stud books in most breeds),which predispose them to a lot of health issues. and then of course there are a lot of unscrupulous breeders who only breed for looks but not for health. [/quote] TDG, the vet I talked with (new one) my normal vet referred me to this vet as he is holistic and works in her office :D He mentioned that he is seeing bloat a lot more in many many different breeds. He kinda mentioned some thing about breeders breeding for abnormal shapes and sizes. He doesnt seem to keen on purebreds at all.

Thank you pyrless. I will be much more careful with diet. Im still going to get the elavated dish holders, for all the dogs :wink: Thanks for clearing me up on bloat not being a genetic disorder. I think I will look into pet insurance. It really makes you think about some thing like that when some thing like this happens. Can you imagine if my dog did bloat and stomach turned, I wouldnt have had the money to pay for the surgery :o I would have found it some where. But having insurance is just that insurance against the unexpected. Thank you

[color=red][b]ITS NOT BLOAT[/b][/color]! :multi: I am soooo happy. The Vet (his is a bi conventional/holistic vet) told me that some dogs are more prone to gas during their meals. He told me that he has an excess of gas in his intestines not stomach. He also told me not to feed him veggies or meat with kibble, he just said some dogs are more sensitive. He also said that he is not off the risk factor of bloat either. He said that if he keeps getting these type of gas that he may bloat in the future. He just said that some dogs can't tolerate raw/cooked meats or veggies with kibble. So, he said if you feed kibble just keep doing as Im doing and add water and canned food. If I feed raw or leftovers feed them in a seperate meal. You can't imagine how relieved I am. Thanks every one soooo much for helping me get through this rough period of waiting for this call from the vet. I really in truly appreciate it.

pyrless, thank you for the advise. The scary thing is I do all that for my dogs. I don't exersise them for over an hour after a meal. I feed them 2 smallish meals twice a day. I don't get home often at lunch so I don't want to get them used to 3 meals a day. I add water to their food so the stomach is not trying to get water from other parts of the body during digestion. They are not big gulpy drinkers, they are danty for husky's they lap and don't drink a lot at once. I feed them Innova, now I heard from some one else that they found that Innova caused gas in their dogs. He just started bloating around the same time I switched him to Innova. I also put water and canned food in their water. They get organic natural live bio yogurt with live bacteria in it. I don't think my dog has a yeast overgrowth. But, judging from the site 3ofakind left me it seem that yeast over growth is one of the leading causes. Its just, I always have been careful with my dogs, and I never even though husky's were that prone to bloating. But, what do I know. Even still I wasnt doing any thing which could have caused him getting gassy. The only things I can think of is that I just recently had to start leaving them in their kennel (outdoor & huge with a insulated baby barn for a dog house) when I go to work. Normally there was some one there and my dogs only went kennel for short periods of time, like when I went to town and I thought they would benifit from being outside. Or when I was home and doing things around the house and they were in the way I put them in kennel. So, its either the Innova dog food, the extras I added to the food or its the stress from going to kennel for and 8 hour stretch that caused him to almost bloat (get gassy cause his stomach didn't turn). Or maybe its just that hes getting older and he is just not in the top shape he was when younger, who knows. I wish I could afford to have his stomach tacked as horsefeathers suggested. I would have to send him away to a local Vet school to get it done. Im sure it would be thousands of dollars. I can't even take out pet insurance as Im sure bloat would be considered a hereitary disease. (I was reading some where that its good to have a dog neutered and stomach tacked at the same time, but, they also mentioned not to tack a breeding dogs stomach in case its prone to bloat you don't want it to pass on to future pups :o ) Thanks every one. Hopefully the vet will be in touch with me shortly and let me know what they found out.

I ordered an elevated dish holder today :D

Thank you for the information Horsefeathers. I am so sorry about Rocco :( how horrible. So, it can happen and kill so quick can't it? I havent heard from the vet yet, I wasnt sure if you could get the stomach stapled without the tummy turning. That is a relief I think I will get the stomach tacked just to make sure it never turns over. Its my worst nightmare, I heard you only have a few minutes to get the dog in before it can pass away. I have never gone through any thing like this before and neither has any one in my family or friends. I just need to keep thinking postitive and do some thing now to prevent it happening in the future.

3ofakind, thank you so much for the link. I am going to go there right now and see what they suggest. I guess danes are really prone to bloat, and who would know better than a dane owner. :wink: thanks

Thank you rotten_two, I am really scared cause his chances of his stomach flipping are probably really high. The vet hasnt called me yet, but, I am waiting for the call. I don't know if they will suggest stomach stapling before the stomach actually flips or not. If they suggest it I will do it. YOu know, its really weird. When he was drooling after his meal and licking his chops I knew some thing was wrong. I thought it was a bone caught in his throat from the salmon. Then when he did it after the veggies, I knew it wasnt normal. I felt his belly and it was not bloated at all. I think the vet will prescribe some med's for the bloat. Its really ironic as well that in next months issue of WDJ they have an aritcle on bloat. That really is good for me, I did get to the article on line but they didn't really have any diet suggestions. Maybe I should go to the Innova website, I think they have a nutritionalist on line. Im sorry to be freaking out so much. I am glad I got you people to lean on for moral support.

I just found out that one of my dogs has been bloating because of a build up of gas. He hasnt bloated to the point of his stomach turning, yet. He basically was drooling big time and restless about an hour after eating. Its only been when I added extras like veggies and salmon to his kibble (Innova). I always mix in canned Innova with my dogs food and once in awhile mix in veggies or meat. He is at the vet clinic now going through a work up (blood work and whatever else he has to go through) just to make sure he is bloating. Any how, I was wondering what is the best food for a dog that may be prone to bloat. I only started him on Innova about 1 week ago. That is ironic that he only started bloating 1 week ago. He has always had veggies in his meals and meat. So is it maybe the Innova (the reason I put him on this brand is because of all the good things I read on this site). Or is it the veggies that give him gas. What would you people suggest I give him, what kind of food would make less gas. Or, does it just depend on the dog and how their system breaks down food. Should I give him Digestive enzymes, what kind the green ones? and should I have him on a probiotic? I am really confused and scared. As far as I can see my vet doesnt have any diet suggestions, just told me to not add any thing to the kibble. :( He is my baby, and Im afraid for him right now. I know how quick bloat can kill a dog and I feel like I have a walking time bomb. :(

If any thing is left on my plate, and thats a big maybe. I like to eat. I scrap the left overs into my dogs bowls and divide it between them. With more than one dog you don't want them fighting over who gets the spoon. If I had one dog, yeah, I would let them lick off the spoon and then just wash it in hot soapy water. I know where my dogs tongue has been :-?

Well, I finally got to talk directly to the vet yesterday. She told me that it is bloat :o I didnt feel a bloated belly and she said that you don't always unless the belly actually turns over. She said my boy has a lot of gas he can't get rid of and its probably because of the little extras I put in the food. Possibly spinach and some of those other greens made for extra gas. Any way, I dropped him off this morning for a full work up and blood work and I think shes going to prescribe some med's in case he gases up again. If he belly turns I of course won't be able to give the med, but, in a case where he just gets restless and drooling to give him the pill. She said if he starts looking like hes vomiting with nothing coming out to get him in ASAP as it will be life threatening at that point. Not sure about stapling at this point. Thanks every one I really appreciate all your concern.

REad this. :wink: [url]http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1592&articleid=518[/url] Acanthosis nigricans is a condition in which there is abnormal darkening of the skin. It is primarily a disease of dogs and has several different forms and causes. The disease can be divided into a primary form that is a genetic condition found primarily in Dachshunds, and a secondary form that has several causes and can be found in any breed or age of dog. In the secondary form, there is a mobilization of the pigment called 'melanin' to areas of chronic inflammation. It is the melanin that creates the dark appearance of the skin. Primary acanthosis nigricans The primary form of the disease occurs in dogs less than one year of age. In this form the skin darkens and thickens, seborrhea develops, and secondary infections with bacteria or yeast can occur. It can affect large areas of the body. Primary acanthosis nigricans is not treatable, but the condition can be controlled with steroids, melatonin injections, and frequent anti-seborrheic shampoos. This condition is rare and is diagnosed mainly through breed history and biopsy. Secondary acanthosis nigricans The secondary form of the disease is much more common. The darkening of the skin occurs because of one of three underlying conditions. 1) Friction caused by obesity or conformational abnormalities. 2) Endocrine imbalances including hyperthyroidism, Cushing's disease, or sex hormone imbalances. 3) Hypersensitivities due to food, inhalant (atopy), or contact allergies. In addition to blackening of the skin, secondary acanthosis nigricans is often associated with chronic hair loss and/or itching and other skin problems. If an owner sees these skin conditions developing, she should have the dog examined by a veterinarian and the underlying cause of the condition should be identified. The treatment for secondary acanthosis nigricans usually consists of treating the underlying condition, e.g., through weight loss, thyroid medication or allergy relief. In more severe cases, steroid therapy at low doses has helped to reduce inflammation in the skin. In addition, Vitamin E supplementation has shown to help in the recovery of some cases. The majority of time the condition will improve once the underlying condition has been identified and properly treated.

Good for you & Meg :wink:

I will, thank you very much.