spiritsmom

I support pediatric (8-9 weeks old) spay/neuter, but only in a shelter setting. If the animal is owned then waiting is best, but for shelter animals I think it's better the pets go out altered than to go out on certificate/contract. That's my opinion only. Our shelter fixes every animal and has been doing so for 2 years now - I think it's a great thing for us to be doing as our adopted animals are definitely not breeding.

Mine: 3 Keeshonden, 1 Shiloh Shepherd So that makes it Keeshonden: 3 Shiloh Shepherd: 1 Boxer: 1 Kelpie: 1 Labrador: 4 Mini Poodle: 1 Papillon: 1 Foxhound: 1 Standard Poodle: 2 Toy Poodle: 1 Lhasa Apso: 2 Mini Schnauzer: 1 Chihuahua: 1 Pit Bull: 1 Malamute: 1 Border Collie: 1

Great news! I have been thinking about ILPing my Keeshond girls. I did get their papers from the rescue, but I do not wish to register them with the AKC that way as they came from a horrid breeder. Besides I defaced their papers anyway! So I might just ILP one of them. Most likely Kara as she my friendly one and I'd be able to compete in obedience with her one day.

Good idea! I can tell you from past experience that our shelter has had to dock tails before due to injury. The last one was a 1 year old Boxer mix, he kept banging his tail against the sides of his kennel and split it open repeatedly. We tried bandaging it, it always came off. We also tried bandaging the tail to either his leg or his belly - no result. We finally had to take it off and leave him a nubbin. After that his kennel was clean - no more blood on the walls, it looked like a bloodbath every morning!

Oh my that is funny! Mystic got spooked yesterday by a REAL tiger! Our shelter took away a baby tiger cub as he wasn't being properly cared for. We had to hold him at the shelter because the sanctuary couldn't take him till monday. She woofed a little at him, but when he roared at her she turned tail! He's cute but so NOT a pet!

Mystic's breeder was at the show too and she was just as ecstatic as I was! I'm definitely going to have to upgrade her papers from pet to show quality now - she had told me she thought she'd be a great show dog for me and she was right!

Well, I went and showed Mystic this past Sunday. It was a 3-day show weekend with the National Specialty on Saturday. I have never showed a dog before in my life so I listened and watched very closely friday and saturday to prepare for her show on sunday. The judge was very forthcoming with advice, tips and help so I learned alot. Anyway, I entered the ring with her on sunday and I was SO nervous! But, not her! She had so much fun! It turned out to be a VERY good show as we ended up winning: Winners Bitch Best of Winners Best of Breed (plush) Best in Show (puppy) OH MY! I am so thilled I don't know what to do with myself! We have some trophies, ribbons, plaques and rosettes now. She gaited so unbelievably beautifully and her breeder was there to see her baby perform! Not bad for a "pet quality" dog! Needless to say she is no longer pet quality and I had a blast showing her that I can't wait to enter her in another one! Got the show bug! Here's pictures of her win! [img]http://www.fuzzybutts.com/Mystic%20Show3small.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.fuzzybutts.com/Mystic%20Show1small.jpg[/img] And here's the link to the page on my site with more pics of other Shilohs that were at the show. [url]http://www.fuzzybutts.com/Homecomingpage.htm[/url]

I can also add that I have been and am in a similar position with my Keeshond, Kyra. Her breed is known to be very friendly, but she is not. I adopted her from a rescue when she was 6 months. She came from very bad breeding and was not socialized in the critical first 6 months of her life until I got her. I had her evaluated by 2 behaviorists - one said put her down as she would likely bite someone, the other saw nothing wrong with her. I was very confused as to how they could have such totally different opinions. I tried to socialize her by taking her with me to work, not a good idea. I had her tied to the door of the room I was working in and my back was to her as I was cleaning cages. I thought everything was okay because we were in an employees only area, but a kid wandered back and was trying to pet Kyra. I turned when I heard her growling to see this kid trying to pet her head while she is crouched down and growling. I intervened before anything happened but that was the last time she has left the house with me except to go to the vet. I've had her thyroid tested twice and had a complete physical and blood work up done on her to see if there was anything that was causing her behavior that could be corrected. Nothing came up, she's "normal". She is still a very strange dog and I do not trust her at all so I do not take her out anymore like I used to try to do, it's not worth her biting someone. I do think that if she were stressed enough she would bite a kid. She doesn't act this badly around adults. I cannot see myself spending the next 10-15 years dealing with her aggression issues and keeping her locked in the house. While I don't have kids and do not want any, there are plenty that live around me and that do enter my house. She always has to be put in her crate to avoid a bite. She is almost 2 years old and I have been trying to help her for the past year and a half. I had her in obedience school where she did quite well, but her temperament is no better. With her I see some improvement followed by a huge setback. I think I will end up euthanizing her because I do not feel her quality of life is the best and I cannot trust her to never bite. It's only a question of when I will take that syringe home from work and use it. She has some of the cutest little quirks and she CAN be a very sweet dog with me, that's what makes it so hard. She'll get all cuddly and then I can't bear the thought of ending her life, but then I see that strange look in her eye and her body posture and I know that I have to. I would love to send her to a rescue (which I think one might actually take her as she has not actually bitten anyone yet), but how fair would that be to all the other Keeshonds that are homeless and do not have her level of problems and whose space she would be taking in a rescue for a long time. I do not think that is fair and would rather see her euthanized knowing that I tried all that I could. I have tried most everything I could find including an anxiety wrap that she is supposed to wear that would be calming, no effect. I hope you find peace in your decision whatever you decide to do. You are not alone.

O that is so sad that you are having these problems. I will echo the unpopular opinion and say it might be best if she were put down. That breed is known to be very people friendly so to find one that isn't is a major red flag. Her aggression to children is most scary as they are usually so good with kids. Remember that she is at a child's face level and we have all seen the headlines when a Pit Bull attacks a kid. You wouldn't want her to be become one more statistic that the BSL people will use. Are you going to want to keep her from all kids for the next decade or more? I think the safest thing is to have her put to sleep. Giving training classes a try is a good idea if you want to try to work through it, but you will need to be oh so careful.

Alot of vets push for early neutering (before 6 months) alot go for the 6 month time period, and still others say to wait till after age 1. The theory goes that dogs need their male hormones to mature and so they recommend holding off on neutering until age 1 or 2. I think it's just personal preference, if I ever get a male dog I might just wait till he was 9 months to a year old to neuter him. It's really up to you, just bear in mind that he will try to reach females in heat when he's about 6 months till he's neutered so be very careful about that. They are a truly bear-like breed, I absolutely love their temperaments!

The stupidity of some people just amazes me. They think they will have dollar bills on four legs. When I first got Mystic, people (including those I work with at the shelter) said I should breed her a few times since Shilohs sell for over $1000 usually and could make tons of money. I added up all the things that would be needed to produce one good litter and that cost was higher than what I paid for her. Now if all I cared about was money, then I probably could make some easily. I'd have to cut so many corners it would be ridiculous! Emergency c-section, nope. Vaccines, nope. All the testing, nope. The list goes on. We just took in a bunch of Shar peis from a BYB. 6 adults and all are in horrible shape. They can barely see, their ears are bleeding from fly bites, they are ALL strongly heartworm positive, they stink and are covered in filth. They have lots of fur missing and really bad skin. BUT the owner was able to sell their puppies for about $300-400 and so she kept breeding them and selling them to whoever would pay for them. Poor dogs.

Oh my, I am in love - he's just too cute! I grew up with an OES, my parents bought her for Xmas in 1981 from a pet store (Doktor Pets, they didn't know any better at the time). She was colored just like yours and had 1 blue eye, 1 brown eye. Her name was Scruffy (I named another dog I had Scruffy as well because he looked like a mini version of her). I remember almost losing her as back in the 80's vets said they had to go through heat before spaying. She was 1 year old when she was spayed and lost so much blood, they almost lost her. She moved in with my grandma in 1985 and became a yard dog, unfortunately. She was run over by my grandpa when she was napping in the driveway, but lived. She died at age 12 and was very missed. She usually weighed around 70 pounds and we kept her fur short, shaved her every summer. I love that breed and would love to have another someday. I hardly ever see any around here, but when I do I just have to go pet it! Your boy is just too adorable, reminds me so much of Scruffy.

I agree completely and said as much too. I work hard to socialize and train my girls to accept most everything. The exception is Kyra who will likely never be an outgoing, accepting type of dog - she will not wear a vest. But the rest really don't care, I can do anything to them like trim their nails and foot fur without a fight. I am proud that my dogs are so accepting.

Go here: [url]http://www.raspberryfield.com/index.html[/url] Pick a vest color and if you want zippered side pockets (both my vests have them) then specify what you want each side to say. Simple!

You know, on this board I have heard nothing but positive things regarding my vest idea for my dogs. I posted the same pics on another board and wouldn't you know, someone replied and said that making animals wear such things isn't natural for them. Well, you know lots of people refuse to spay/neuter because that's not "natural" either for them. I must say I'm very surprised by that kind of response. I was told that I shouldn't make my dogs spread my message for me. Just kinda makes me a little mad at first, but that's just one person's opinion and they are entitled to it. They'd probably flip if they knew all the things I do to my dogs: they have winter coats to wear when it gets cold, they have boots to wear so they don't get salt in their paws, they all have many bandannas, they also have hiking boots to protect their feet in the woods, they have many different collars to choose from, I dress them up for holidays and their birthdays, and they have a selection of t-shirts to wear. I suppose all this is just horrible, I'm a bad pet owner because of all that! I just think there are worse things that people do to dogs than making them wear a vest, service dogs wear vests al the time and for longer periods of time than my dogs do! Just had to vent a wee bit, excuse that.

Remember I posted pics of Spirit's spay/neuter vest awhile back? Well, now Kara has her own vest in a different color and with some new slogans also from NeuterNeuterLand. She seems to like having it on and we went to Petsmart today to show it off - the employees there liked it! [img]http://www.fuzzybutts.com/Kara%20Vest%20side2small.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.fuzzybutts.com/Kara%20Vest%20side1small.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.fuzzybutts.com/Kara%20Vest%20backsmall.jpg[/img]

Oh and one more thing, those flexi leashes can HURT! I was injured by one a few summers ago and it was horrible. I was at a friend's house and we took her dogs out for a walk. The one she was walking saw something and darted after it. I had the flexi I was using locked, but her's wasn't. That dog zoomed behind me and I felt this burning pain. The skinny rope part and caught me right behind my knees and cut into my flesh. I was a bloody mess! It had actually cut into my skin and didn't heal for a long time. Since it was summer and right behind my knees I was in tears when I would bend my legs or that part would get sweaty. It was the worst pain, felt like I was on fire. The pain didn't go away for a few weeks and I really thought I would have a scar there, but 3 years later you can't see anything. That friend no longer uses a flexi around me though!

I hate Flexis too! I have a couple that I only use when I take my dogs down to the creek when we are by ourselves. That way they can splash around but I don't have to worry about them running off or getting pulled downstream. But no one else is around when I use them. I have a friend who only uses them on his two medium-sized untrained dogs. I stopped going out with him to fairs because we'd take our dogs with us and he was embarrassing. I would take Spirit on a regular 4 foot leash and he'd take his two on a flexi with a coupler. They would always be at the end of the flexi jumping on people sitting down eating trying to get their food, jumping on kids, running up to other dogs there, etc. If something were to happen he'd have no control as they are 26 feet away from him! Also I go to Petsmart and people will take their dogs in on Flexis (can't they ban them from the stores!) and you'd see the dog halfway down an aisle while the owner is looking a something somewhere else. You can't tell me they have complete control over their dog because they don't, most times they don't even pay attention to what their dog is doing. I have just walked in and someone at the checkout had their dog on a flexi and the dog just ran up to me and my 2 dogs when we set foot in the store. Luckily I had my 2 dog friendly dogs with me and we escaped, but Kara WILL bite at another dog if it rushes up to her. She is of the bite first, ask if they are nice later type of thinking. She has had dogs rush up to her and initiate a fight so she is defensive now and will be the first to attack. Flexis can ruin pleasant outings wherever I go!

Which pet shop was it? I'm always on the lookout for pet stores when I visit Virginia. Luckily the malls where my dad lives have no pet stores, but some of the strip malls have Fox Mill Pets which sells puppies.

A couple years ago our shelter took in a deaf double merle Aussie pup that was about 6 months old (breeder had sold him not knowing he was deaf and the owners brought him back to them and they took him straight to our shelter). His fur was just like your Cody's. He wasn't really fluffy like most Aussies are. But his fur was rather harsh to the touch, not soft. I don't know if that had anything to do with his breeding or not. You'll love the story about his breeder! They had a blue merle male and a tri female that were a breeding pair. The female died so they replaced her with another blue merle female because they liked the color so much. Here's the kicker - they did noy spay her (didn't want to breed her though) because they thought dogs mated for life and since the male's "mate" had died they thought he would never attempt to mate with the new girl. Apparently, he did not feel that way about his former mate and was very happy to breed the new girl and she had unexpected puppies. Nice breeder huh!

I don't know about your area, but here you can bring a found dog to animal control and put your name on it so in case the owner is not found or does not want the dog back they will call you first to adopt it. Then you drop the dog off at the shelter and hope the owner won't want to pay the reclaim fee. Here, if the dog is not licensed the fee can be as high as $70. She may not want to pay that kind of money to get her dog back out and then you can legally adopt her as your own. It's just a thought, not sure how things work in your area.

I don't know about breeders having bitches for sale that have been bred, but some do have older "started" bitches about 9 months to 2 years old. Alot have adults available that are good show/breeding prospects. They also have pet adults available sometimes too. Another Shiloh breeder currently has a 10 month old show male for sale that was returned to her by the original purchaser. And that breeder is very good, but she has no room for him in her breeding program as he is related to most of her females. So it is done, you'd just have to keep your eyes open for them.

If I were going to start breeding I would go for an older bitch for a couple reasons. #1 - it's hard to tell show/pet quality when they are just puppies. Some things that are faults may change as they grow. For example, Mystic was sold to me as a pet quality, but I recently brought her back to visit her breeder and now under further evaluation she has been upgraded and I will now be able to show/breed her. I do plan to show her and as for breeding her, if she passes hips, heart and elbow screening then I will. #2 - Some show puppies don't grow up to be able to be shown/bred. Another example, a Shiloh hopeful breeder purchased 4 puppies on show/breeding contracts. 1 male and 3 females - different ages and litters. The male is being shown and will be bred. The females all developed various faults either physical or temperament related so they were all spayed and are now pets. This same person bought another femal a year ago to "replace" the 3 she had to spay. Now this one had mild hip dysplasia in one hip and has been spayed too. So out of buying 5 puppies for show and breeding she only has one that fulfill her dream.

I went to visit Mystic's breeder today since I'm on vacation in Virginia anyway. She had a mini reunion with her fur family and it seemed as if she and her mom recognized each other too! She even got to do a little swimming - played doG for a minute and thought the water was a firm surface that she could walk on, but nope, she sunk like a rock! There were some fireworks being shot off nearby and she did not spook at all at the sound, very good girl! Here's the coolest part... her breeder wants me to try out showing her as her conformation and temperament are excellent. So even though I got her as pet quality she might upgrade her papers to show/breeding quality if her show career, hips, elbows and heart tests all check out good when she's a little older. So now I have to learn to be a handler and I'm trying to get into a conformation class with her asap because her 1st show is in august and it's a national specialty type of show for her breed. So my spay appointment for her later this month is cancelled until we decide what to do once all her results from her testing come back after she's a year old. Her mom had her first heat at 11-12 months so she'll likely be a late bloomer too. And I will have a mentor for help should I decide to breed her one day. I think it would just be so fun to put a Ch on her, that would be thrilling! My little girl has made me very proud!

Yep, Chicken Soup For the Dog Lover's Soul (like the book) is the full name of the dog food, I was just too lazy to type all that out! It is an actual brand of dog food made by Diamond. Sorry about the mix-up I was wondering why they would add salt to dog food, you had me thinking for a minute there! It's a new food and only one store here carries it, but it has a nice "chickeny" smell which the dogs all love! I do not think my vet is taking me seriously as he (jokingly) said that I should consider douching her if I feel it would work. She'd had a bladder infection once (blood in her urine) and that seemed to make the odor worse so perhaps there is a yeast like infection going on there. She gets a dollop of either yogurt or cottage cheese with her food as do all my dogs. She just had a bath today so the smell is gone for the moment, but driving to Virginia with her the other day was torture, 7 hours with that stench! I've been squirted with anal glands enough times to know that smell (cats don't much like thermometers up their rears and like to spray you as revenge!) and this scent is somewhat similar (it's also quite pungent) and both are fishy, but this smell is different. It's like rotting fish and quite strong and as I've pointed out to my vet the smell is not coming from her anal glands, it is emanating from her vaginal area. I hate to sound nasty like I go around sniffing my dog's female parts, but I had to rule out anal glands as that's what everyone has been telling me it is. If it were then the smell would come from there wouldn't you think? The things we do for our dogs! That area is not irritated looking nor is there any discharge, but something just is not right. Thank you for teh suggestions of what this could be cause by, that was very helpful. Now armed with those possibilities I will contact another vet for their opinion, just such an embarrassing problem! But you've been a tremendous help!