Horsefeathers!

Just a side note... my vet has been considering discontinuing the selling of Revolution due to the huge number of complaints he has gotten for it not working on fleas. To tell the truth, he hasn't been carrying it long enough to know exactly how effective it is at preventing heartworms, but again, you have to wonder about its efficacy if it's already not doing some of what it's supposed to do.

My two cents on Revolution, for what it's worth... I was given several months' supply of it by a company rep for my dogs when it first came out. I tried it on all of them and it was very disappointing for flea control. If you live in an area that is heavily infested with fleas, this ain't the stuff to use. Since it didn't control fleas as it was hyped up, it made me apprehensive about trusting it to do the other things it's supposed to do with any great efficacy. Also, one of my dogs had a seizure almost immediately following the application of the Revolution. We have no way of knowing if it was related, but he had never had one before then and never had one again. It was the only thing "out of the ordinary" at the time. I'm sure there is always going to be that one dog out of a gazillion that will react to anything on the market, but I just figured I'd toss that out there.

[quote name='connie1386'][color=black][/color] [size=6][/size] [size=7][/size][b] I HAVE A 5 YR. OLD POMERANIAN DOG SOME GAVE ME. HE'S BEEN WITH ME FOR ALMOST A YEAR WHEN HE'S SLEEPING WITH MY GRAND CHILDREN OR ANYBODY AND I TELL HIM TO GET DOWN HE GROWLS AT ME AND SHOWS ME HIS TEETH... WHAT CAN I DO..... [/b][/quote] Ok, this is going to sound like a smarty britches answer, but I swear it isn't meant so. Growl back at him and show him YOUR teeth and snatch his little butt up, anyway, and put him where you want him. If you're genuinely concerned about getting bitten, toss a towel over him and grab, but it sounds more like he is just posturing (and it's worked for him!). Either way, don't negotiate. So this may not be found in any book. It's worked for me with smaller dogs. Of course, this is in addition to other things mentioned above. He definitely needs to be demoted.

[quote name='courtnek']Raw meat should be ok for dogs, providing it's fresh and hasnt been sitting around at room temperature..... [color=red] Theoretically, that could be true-ish, but meat goes through so many changes between slaughter and the kitchen. I've worked in chicken, pork and beef processing plants and all the regulations in the world about how it's supposed to be handled don't make me feel better about what I've seen. So it's more than just some poor slob leaving the meat on the counter too long. [/color] They still have their appendixes; which is now thought to originally have been meant to control the bacteria from raw meat. Ours went dormant when we started cooking food.... A "kill" would be considered "fresh" since the meat was not introduced to the room temperature bacteria's like E-Coli and Salmonella...[/quote] That's actually kinda sorta another reason I wouldn't BARF again. Unless I was able to raise my own chickens (or cows) and slaughter them, myself, ensuring "proper" handling, I wouldn't dare try it again, regardless of all the soakings and things that are SUPPOSED to make the raw meat safe. Also, most people don't take into account, when they try to use the "what wolves/wild dogs ate" analogy is that they consumed EVERYTHING... not just the bones and meat. Hair, hide and all would be consumed. Most people do not feed their dogs hair and hide on the BARF diet. I found an interesting article that suggests that this may be one reason this type of diet is "successful" in the wild... that the bones are coated by the hide and fur and make them much more likely to pass without puncturing innards. This is just a theory (but then, the whole BARF diet is based on theories, as is any diet), but it sounds as sensible as anything else I've heard. Also, something else no one thinks about when they say that wolves/wild dogs have been eating this way for eons with no problems is that there have been no studies on wolves/wild dogs to know, statistically, how many dogs/wolves may actually have been injured or killed by bones, or bacteria. There's no way to use that comparison to sell it as safe. I know it seems like I'm ranting away, but I'm not. It's just the "other side of the story." I'm still ok with people who feed their dogs BARF as long as they're ok with the fact that MY dog got sick on it. I didn't leave the meat out at room temperature, so it wasn't MY handling of it that made her sick. I guess I seem kind of defensive because of the verbal beating I took from my fellow BARF enthusiasts on some of these lists when I said my dog was sick. These were my bestest buddies when I was BARFing my dog, but, boy howdy, did I take a beating when I suggested that, gosh, maybe this diet isn't right for EVERY dog.

[quote name='Kiger']I would be happier if someone would do an independent study on BARF. Anecdotal evidence just isn't cutting it for me. [/quote] EXACTLY!!! I have been saying the same thing forever! I don't have a problem in the world with thinking that many dogs benefit from BARF, so why do so many BARF enthusiasts have such a problem with the reality that it may not be best for ALL dogs? My dog is one who got sick from BARF. I did my own independent research afterward and found that it wasn't an isolated incident and, contrary to what the BARF enthusiasts would like to say, it isn't always because of something the owner did wrong. Too many enthusiasts just refuse to believe that raw bones can and do splinter, dogs can and do get ill from salmonella and the list continues. The thing that alarms me most is when someone expresses an interest in BARF, they are instantly directed to join the BARF lists. WRONG! Maybe this sounds radical, but my thinking is that someone should do their own research, both pro and con and then decide which they would like to do. THEN join the BARF lists for advice and support. It just seems kind of like deciding which car I'd like to buy by visiting the Ford website. They will tell me every reason why a Ford is the car I should buy. Do you think you would read something like, "Hey, Fords are great cars except for that tire problem that killed several people..." on their own website? Had I done my own independent research FIRST instead of instantly joining the lists and taking their advice as gospel, I would have found out that dogs can and do get sick. Anyway, that's just me. I'm ok with the fact that some dogs do fine on BARF. I'm not ok with the fact that mine didn't. I do know, regardless of how many times I'm told otherwise, that cooking at normal household oven temperatures (this would not mean the temps in an industrial setting like used for rendering and extrusion) does NOT change the nutritional value of food, meat or otherwise, one bit, so it's worth that extra bit of effort to ensure my peace of mind. My dogs still primarily get Wellness, but any meat they get will be cooked. There is also sound evidence that the whole "what dogs eat/ate in the wild" stuff is taken way out of proportion and does not necessarily apply, but people are hardly ever interested once they have their minds made up one way or another. Sorry if it seems like a rant. I'm not anti-BARF, per se, but just really get frustrated at how many people (in general) refuse to hear any evidence that it is not best for EVERY dog.

One of the relief vets that used to work with us called the stuff "Rima-kill" and would not prescribe it when she could get out of it. She was thoroughly opposed to the widespread use of it. I never did really find out what her opposition was, but now I wish I'd paid more attention. On the other hand, my Lab did take it for a very short time for pain control after his FHO surgery with no ill effects. I know I'd never use it longterm (but then I'm not much of a pill pusher, myself). Anyway, it's just interesting to read the diversity in professional opinions. My primary vet is a fan of Rimadyl... it was one of HIS relief vets that was adamantly opposed to the widespread use of it, calling it "Rima-kill." Funny, huh?

Courtnek, to kick you while you're down, I hope you don't have to do what I did when one of my dogs ate a plastic bag. He was trying to pass it and it came part way through. I had to reach down there and ummm pull it the rest of the way out. Ew ew ew!! My Lab is about the best dog I have for NOT chewing up things he ought not. The above incident was with one of my Lhasas. Have a nice day and good luck. :lol:

Oh, and it depends on why I'm picking up the animal as to where I take them. Both shelters near me have night drop off "depositories" that have food, water and cages already set up where you just deposit the dog anonymously (sad that it had to come to that, but so many people don't have the ummm fortitude to bring their dogs during regular hours and would rather abandon dogs in the woods. The purpose behind these night time drop offs is so that maybe more animals will be turned in anonymously as opposed to dumped in the woods). If it's injured, I take it to the vet clinic where I work. If it appears to be a stray, I take them to the shelter. Or so I try. Some strays come home with me and never leave. :-?

I always keep a crate in whatever vehicle I am driving. The primary reason is because I'm always picking up something along the way, whether it be dogs or cats. I've not had to pick up a larger dog yet, but if it ever came up, I suppose I could put the dog in the cargo area of my SUV and my dog in the front seat, leaving a whole row of seats between them. That back seat is hard to come over and the dogs that usually travel with me everywhere I go are usually totally oblivious to any other dog. They wouldn't care. Does anyone else carry a care kit just in case you run across an injured or abandoned animal? Crate, kennel leads, muzzles, treats... I forget what all I have, but I always keep critter friendly stuff in my vehicles.

[quote name='maddog']Sigh... the dog is a product of it's owner. Punish the owner not the dog.[/quote] Since it seems kind of impractical to hunt down a dog owner during an attack and shoot them, I'm with Carol and Hobbit. If ANYTHING ever comes into my territory and attacks one of my critters, I will do whatever it takes to stop the attack, up to and including killing the dog. It's not my first choice, but there's not always time to negotiate with a charging dog (Pit Bull or otherwise... wouldn't matter to me). I wouldn't hunt down a dog after the fact and do it, but during an attack... oh, yeah.

So sorry to hear about Rinny. My thoughts are with you. :(

All of my dogs share the same middle name. It is "NO!" As a matter of fact, that is the name listed on my Perry's chart at the vet... "Perry-NO." I'm sure that doesn't help, being it's not very regal sounding, but sometimes I give up creativity in exchange for practicality (izzat a word?). :-?

Well, this is weird. This is the first day I've actually read any of this thread and find it so fascinating. I used to believe, several yeas ago, that a dog was only a result of their upbringing. That business of "enough love, caring, socialization" stuff. Many of you are familiar with my Penny. She's a Pit Bull (with a bit of Boxer thrown in, but not enough to deter her). I've had her since she was 4 - 5 weeks old and she was raised with all the love in the world. Socialized, too. She is actually great around people. However, a couple of years ago (about when she turned 2), she began turning on our other dogs. Just BAM she'd be on them without warning. It seemingly came out of nowhere. After all, she was raised around other dogs her entire life. I am still reading and learning about what makes Pit Bulls tick. I am working with a vet who also specializes in behavior. She told me that Penny is basically being a Pit Bull (duh). It is only recently that I've stopped wondering where I went wrong. I can certainly vouch for the fact that the dog aggression comes naturally. With intense monitoring, Penny lives just fine in a multiple dog household, BUT it's a huge responsibility. We have learned (and are still learning) how to read her. She is NEVER, EVER, under any circumstances, to be left unsupervised with any of our other dogs. MOST of the time, she is fine with them. It's just those times when she "snaps" and she's quick. We have to be quicker and we have to eliminate any chance she has to "snap." She is on medication to help calm her a bit and we are going through different behavior modifications. I know there is nothing we can do to "cure" her of her aggression, but we do what we can to control it. I will say this... as much as I love this dog, if I'd known then what I know now (famous last words), I would NEVER have a Pit Bull in a multiple dog household. It's very stressful at times, having to watch her every move. If she dozes off, she MUST be crated since she would kill a dog who accidentally blundered into her. She's that fast and she doesn't bluff. If she ever attacks, she means it. All this to say that I now know that the dog aggression comes naturally. I now know that it isn't solely a matter of upbringing. It has certainly been a lesson to me in breed specific behaviors. All the care and love in the world can't undo what ANY dog has been bred for. It's certainly a matter of me wishing I'd known then what I know now, but it can't be undone. I can only do what I can do to try to be responsible. What's weird is that I get really frustrated when I hear people say, "It's all in how they're raised. If a dog is raised right, there won't be any problems." I get so frustrated, yet it's how I used to feel. Live and learn, I reckon.

Yellow, I think my input may be a bit disappointing. I mean, I've only really gotten involved with Standard Poodles fairly recently and even still, the ones I'm involved with are rescues. What you posted above seems accurate from what I know. Like with any breed, finding a reputable breeder is important. Temperament and all that. My personal opinions (which are similar to those listed above)... Pros~ Standards are outgoing and fun. Very intelligent. I don't say this because I'm a fan. No, I readily admit that some of my other beloved dogs are ummm lacking in mental capacity. Standards, to me, are brilliant. They train so easily and are eager to please. They're athletic and elegant. Also, I do like the fact that I never, ever find Poodle hair embedded in my furniture or floors. Cons~ Maintenance will be costly or time consuming (depending on if you're the do it yourself kind, or not). One needs to take into account the costs/time requirements of maintaining these coats, even if just kept in a short trim. You might want to contact whichever groomer you plan to use (or start looking) to find out the costs of regular grooming maintenance if you won't be doing it yourself (and it is a lot of work!). Also, Standards seem to be prone to ear problems. Regular maintenance (and careful breeding, I imagine) are very important for ear health. As far as hyperactive and nervous, a decent Standard should never be. I mean, even the poorly bred ones (conformation) I've seen around here at least have wonderful, stable temperaments. I reckon it goes back to finding a decent breeder. I'm not sure of what all diseases or disorders they, as a breed, can be predisposed to since I'm not really involved with the more knowledgeable show people. I expect to know more as I get more involved in Poodle rescue, but, again, I'm still a relatively new "convert." You'd probably be better off asking someone who is active in the show scene and knows the breed inside out. I know that they can be prone to bloating. Also, I've known several Standards (including this new rescue we just got) who have seizures. I don't know if it's a problem in the breed, or if we just have a high incidence of it in this area. Our new member with the Poodles may know more about it. I guess the best thing I can say is to check with the breed clubs and talk to the people who are active with them. I wish I could help you out more, Yellow. All I can do is tell you why *I* love them. They're just so much fun and such happy dogs. They will do anything to please once the light has gone on in their heads. When my current gang has all gone on, I imagine I will always have a few Standards around. I can't think of a single thing about them I don't like. We just "click." Good luck either way. I hope, if it's what's meant to be, y'all find the perfect Standard for you!

No, I'm waiting until everyone's asleep, so I can sneak over and set him free under my neighbors' house. :o That lake thing was my OTHER pet alligator! :P

LuvMyMiko, I had my male Lhasa neutered at about 3 years old. We waited so late because we didn't really have a need to before then. All my females were spayed and he didn't mark MOST of the time. However, there are a lot of dogs that roam our neighborhood and every time a female in heat would come through, he would make himself and us crazy. THEN he would start the marking and drooling and pacing. Anyway, even though it was done so late, it didn't change him a bit. One thing is that he seemed to be a bit more sore and took a little longer to heal than my other dogs (male and female) that I'd had done earlier, but he had no major longterm problems. He definitely still has all the spark he had before and it hasn't altered his character one bit. He just no longer gets really stupid every time some ho' dog comes around. I vote "yes," also! :)

[quote name='timbos13']because the people do not see his point of view, and people think he is a homo because of what he wants to do :drinking:[/quote] ? :-? ?

I don't know how I managed to not answer this one. There are 8 dogs in my house. I keep saying I'm going to put a sign on my door, "Ring the bell; win a dog." :-? [img]http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&PhotoID=nLAAAANsNufx3HvQosAUexSzy!PQ9s9UhgbxryupK0P0*Z1Mp5meNpooK*yNvOYYNfugHsko61o47yG4XIbuV1Q[/img]

I, personally, wouldn't feed that to my pet alligator. Blech! :-?

[quote name='DogPaddle'][quote]* You have given up on water dishes and you just use the bathtub. [/quote] That is a great idea, Pik, clean that tub up good would ya.[/quote] Would be a great idea here, too, except that I have goldfish living in my main bathtub. :oops:

Just keep accumulating dogs until they're so used to it, they barely turn their heads at the sight of a new dog. I swear that's apparently what I'm doing. I don't even go through the introductions anymore. I just pitch a new dog in there and let them sort it out. They look at each other and sniff and go back to sleep as if to say, "Yup, that's a dog." With the exception of Penny. Very long & drawn out introductions with her because she would just as soon kill another dog as to look at it. Other than that... Anyway, if you don't plan to "desensitize" Ben by getting so many dogs he just stops caring, you could always follow DP's advice. *snicker* :lol: Seriously, DP's advice is great, but I'd like to add something. Just from my years of tossing dogs together, I believe it is best, once the initial formal introductions are made, to let the dogs sort themselves out. Of course, you'll want to closely monitor them. I always let mine sort out any differences. Dogs are pretty good at establishing order. I let them go through any posturing, grumbling, sniffing, whatever. As long as it doesn't involve bloodshed and blatant attacking, I believe they should be watched and not disturbed. I'm certainly not saying let them FIGHT it out. SORTING things out is different. I kind of believe that TOO much coddling an insecure dog can kind of backfire because some dogs are intelligent enough to figure out exactly what is getting them the extra attention and will milk it for all it's worth (example- I have one dog who is absolutely terrified of storms, but when we started trying to coddle and comfort him, he became more insecure and more panicky because we were basically rewarding his fear... if we just go about things as normal, he will go somewhere and lie down... in other words, we try not to "validate" his fears). Since I think dogs pick up on our vibes, I usually try to be more matter of fact rather than give them a chance to think that something is amiss. I may be radical in my thinking and please do understand that I am NOT a trainer. This is just from my own experiences with my own gang of misfits. All that just to say to let them sort things out once the formal introductions have been made. Unless you have a REALLY crazy dog (like my Penny who does NOT get to sort anything out... that *would* involve bloodshed), things will likely settle down pretty quickly and you'll have two dogs who are secure and established in their respective places within the "pack." Anyhoo, good luck. *This is the reason I have been here soooooo long and have no more paws than I do. I don't post to many topics. I just make looooooong drawn out posts to a few.* :-?

That's ok... around here, BOB means something else entirely and the idea of Hobbit winning one gave me this weird visual that I just can't shake. You probably don't want to know what. :oops:

There are eight dogs in my house. Every single freaking one of them howls at sirens. We live right by a major four lane US highway which has at least daily episodes of emergency vehicles going by. Not TOO bad during the day, but at 3 am... :o

I would love to help, but I am truly at my limit. I have been involved in all breed rescue for some time now, but am becoming more involved in Poodle rescue. Now there's a breed that is truly being bred to death. :-?

I have several kinds of crates, cages and kennels in my house and I prefer, by far, the wire crates. I do have several of the plastic Vari style kennels, but I like the "openness" and easy accessibility of the wire cages. They are sooooo much easier to clean. All I have to do is slide the tray out from the bottom and clean it. Even though my dogs don't still make messes in their crates, they still need to be cleaned (they end up with a lot of sand in them :-? ). With the plastic Varis, I have to virtually climb inside to clean them. Another problem I've had with my plastic Vari style crates is that sometimes the spring thingy on the doors that latch them closed give out and I end up having to rig the gate closed. Almost all of mine have had the spring give out and then the gate is virtually useless. Then again, maybe I use mine more day to day than they were intended(?). I have never had any problems with sharp edges on any of my wire crates. No one has ever gotten snagged on anything that I know of. Yeah, I REALLY do like wire crates over the plastic ones. I like being able to see all the way through. Also, the wire crates disassemble easily and fold flat for easy storage or transportation! :)