courtnek

JOIN US...JOIN US..JOIN US... WE ARE HARMLESS..(unless. of course, you want to be "dog additcted") WE ARE HARMLESS...(unless, of course, you want to be "breed addicted")

Aurora, the dogs smell something on it you cant detect. I dont know what it is, but it tells them "STAY AWAY!! BE AFRAID!!" what was it used for? did he hunt? something about it frightens them...I would suggest just keeping it away from them..... and finding out what the story behind it is....

no offense taken - my sister seems to think that the world should revolve around her - and that her kids can do no wrong...even though this one has been arrested a number of times for various different things.. I was VERY UPSET at being considered a "bad dog owner".... Even my mom. who doesnt like animals. said "YOU would never hurt an animal, for any reason!!! I WILL come to court for you if necessary...." :o

I think I found the email address - this is what I sent I have read your request for bloodwork on APBT's, mixes and AST's.... I have also studied your web page and others concerning yourself. On the surface, you seem like a decent, animal loving person. However, this study frightens me. There are TOO MANY PEOPLE who believe that the bully-breeds of all kinds should be banned. Breed specific legislation is going on all over. I AM COMPLETELY AGAINST IT, I'll let you know that right off the top. Let me tell you my beliefs on this subject, and then you can tell me yours, and why you feel we need to do genetic testing on the bully breeds. I feel that the majority of animal bites to people, by all breeds, come from the lack of training and socialization of the animal itself. People just seem seem to understand that dogs are animals, they are not people. They dont reason the way that people do. They dont feel that biting is "bad" - they dont know any better. A lot of these problems (seen first hand by me) is a lack of a stable. "alpha" presence by the human. Many people disagree with this, but bottom line, dogs are pack animals. Even though domesticated, their instincts are basically the same as a wolf pack. Without a strong alpha in the household, the dog may try to become the boss. I have seen this in both huge dogs, like Newfies, and tiny dogs, like Chihauhau's... the two next door are a good example.....Personally, I think the two next door and miniature poodles are the worst offenders without a strong alpha, and they are small. The biting problem is with the larger, more powerful dogs, who's bites inflict greater damage than a small dog, and the media hype doesnt help the situation any I also think a big part of the problem is Breed Standards. Let me give you an example. I have a Lab/German Shorthair Pointer mix. Both breeds are supposedly good with children, trustworthy, gentle, etc. Would I let my girl loose in a dog park? Absolutely not. She is very dominant, and wont be shut down, and could very easily start or get into a fight with another dominant dog. Does she try to dominate me? Never. She knows better. I run my household with an iron hand, and she knows that. But too many people will buy a Lab because of the Breed Standards, and wont show the proper control, or training, then when someone gets bitten it's the dog's fault and it has to be put down. . This is where the Pit Bull's and AST's have fallen into this trap. I am 46 years old. I was around when the German Shepherd was the "bad" dog, then the Rottweiler, then the Doberman Pinscher....the problem was not the dogs, it was the breeders. A dog gets popular all of a sudden, by a TV show, or a news story, or whatever. Suddenly, everyone wants one. The sheisty breeders comply with the demand by not following strict breeding procedures, and the animals are then flawed. Do you see where I am going with this? Your study frightens me. A lot of people believe there is a "gene" that makes APBT's "vicious"....however, APBT's and the other bully breeds were bred to be animal aggressive (bulls, boars and bears) but the APBT especially was bred to be people friendly, and the non-people friendly ones were culled from the litters. They could not be dangerous to people, or they couldnt be fought. So where are all these vicious Pit's coming from? Bad breeding. Bad (or non-existent) training. Cruelty by their owners. I have asked this question many times before, and never gotten a good answer... WHY IS THE DOG RESPONSIBLE???? If someone abused a Golden Retriever, the law would be all over them for cruelty to animals. or a lab - or a poodle.... but if it's a Pit, then it's the Pit's fault? Why is that? I am sorry if I seem harsh, but I dont trust the reasons behind your study. There may very well be a gene that makes Pit's more aggressive - after all, they were bred to be aggressive - TOWARDS ANIMALS. What I fear is the discovery of this gene making the stupid people in the world (mostly the government, who know nothing about it at all) being able to ban certain breeds of dogs from being owned. What next? No German Shepherds? No Rottweilers? No Dobermans? (ALL of whom make excellent service dogs, by the way. And the police and military would be lost without them). If you can prove to me that this is not the direction your study is taking, then perhaps I will consider it. If not, I will loudly tell everyone I know not to co-operate. And I belong to a number of forums who will spread the word. One of those forums is how I got this information. As I said, I do not mean to seem harsh, but this is VERY IMPORTANT to me. You can answer me back at [email][email protected][/email] - Please do. If I do not receive an answer, I will assume that my worst fears are true, and I will spread the word to not co-operate. Sincerely, Katy Courtney Illinois waiting for a reply - will let you all know.

Well, I investigated Karen overall thru her webiste, and that of a friend. She appears to honestly love animals; has some good advice out on how to introduce a new baby to a pet, how to train and treat dogs, etc. On the surface she seems like an honest animal lover. However, I could not get her complete email address, and I would like to ask her myself what the purpose of this study is....

This is a thin-edged sword - on the surface it seems harmless, but you are correct in the feeling that they may not be telling the whole truth. They make it sound in their letter as if they are kinda trying to help the breed, but of course, no one would cooperate if it didnt sound like that. I would not volunteer any samples until I had more information - maybe from that guy you mentioned, or see the study and it's results. I would not want to contribute to BSL by default.... If they are ever really able to ban the bully breeds completely, there is then nothing to stop them from banning GSD's, Rotties, Dobies, etc... All of whom make excellent service dogs and police and military workers. My vote is NO - dont cooerate with this test until/unless we know more about it. Maybe I'll email these people....

to my dog, the treat of the century is CHEESE!! I get block cheese and cut it up into small squares, and refirgerate it. Be careful with this in case her alleriges include milk products however. she also loves baby carrots and banana's...but go easy on the fruit, since alot of it (like grapes) are not good for dogs. As an extra special treat, when I make fried potatoes I seperate and freeze the leftovers, and give them to her frozen, and she loves them.

[quote]I think this is a great idea, as long as it isnt a blanket-no-extenuating-circumstances-allowed type thing. [/quote] I agree with this as well. There are some cases of a dog biting even though the owners have taken good care of it and trained it, and kept it under good control. The only fear I have here is that good dog owners, who possibly have a dog with a neurological or brain disfunction, or whose dog was being teased and mistreated by the neighborhood children, (I see that here a lot, I go after those kids like hell on wheels....)will be blamed as being bad dog owners. I think the registry is long overdue, but there needs to be extenuating circumstances as well. My Tibetan Mastiff snarled at my sisters son while she was staying with me. This kid is a real pain - uncontrolled, undisciplined, and while I didnt see it, I would bet from experience he was teasing the dog. It was winter, and about 12 degress outside, and she put the dog out!! I had no yard, so Luigi was left outside just wandering around the neighborhood. One of the neighbors called animal control, and I was ticketed with animal abuse (because of how cold it was outside). By the time the court date came up, my sister had packed up and gone back home to Colorado, leaving me with the mess of explaining what had happened to the court. I got some of my neighbors to come in as character witnesses on how I treated my dogs, and the case was dropped, but I can easily see that sort of thing happening to others. There does need to be a little flexibility with this law, but on the whole, I am all for it.

The trainer/breeder I used to work for told me there is a scientific reason for never leaving a baby or small child alone with a dog - ANY dog.... they're little tiny voices are so high pitched, that when they cry repeatedly it hurts the dogs ears. Also, when they cry like that they are usually afraid or uncomfortable - they have no means of expressing themselves other than to cry, and the dog can sense that fear. So it's a double whammy - the crying is hurting their ears, and the longer no one responds to the crying the more fear is eminated from the baby.... it's so sad. Why cant people understand that? Not every dog is Lassie, or Rin Tin Tin..... :evil:

extra exercise might help to tire him out - I dont believe I've ever seen a tired Jack tho....LOL How long are you keeping him? You could probably train him to leave ROsie alone while you're there, but I think I would still crate him while you're out, just to be safe. Since it's only for a few hours there's no harm done. Somewhere at the back of the house where he cant see the other dogs, and like suggested, leave a radio or tv on. That seems to calm some dogs greatly.... :D

[b][size=7][/size]WHAT AN ANGEL!!! :angel: :angel: [size=3][/size][/b] both YOU, and the puppy!!! :D

Jack's do tend to be a little hyper - they are high-energy dogs. I would suggest crating him in a back room of the house for the few hours you are gone, with his favorite toys and a tv or radio on. I would hate to think of there being an issue with Rosie while you're gone..... Good luck!!

YES!!!! YES!!! it's what I've been saying all along!! THE OWNERS ARE RESPONSIBLE!!@!!!!!@@@ Make THEM pay the penalty, NOT THE DOG!!!!!

NEED MORE INFO!! What did she eat? Did she get stung? Does she normally have Allergy problems? NEED MORE INFO!!! Please!! for her sake..\ otherwise, take her to a vet...RIGHT AWAY!!!

[quote]Courtnek, what a wonderful statment! perhaps the same thing is happening to our purebred dogs.[/quote] OK everybody, dont kill me, but I agree. Even with purebreeding, if you breed too close to home, you have problems. It is better for purebred dogs, genetically, to come from different families. Not too closely associated with each other. You can keep the "good traits" and breed out the "bad". but only if you have enough genetic diversity to insure that there wont be any other weird problems that show up. Good breeders know this, and look for dogs from "outside sources" that have the lines they want to continue, without the lines they want to expunge. BAD breeders just dont care, and from them you get the dogs with hip displacia, temperament problems, and disease. We can keep purebreds "pure", providing it is done correctly and a large variety of outside the family lines are used for the breeding. I am a big fan of mixed breeds, some people will disagree with me, but I think they are stronger health wise. Bottom line, if you take the best of the best, whether purebred or not, you end up with a stronger individual. :D

They wont let the dogs outside by themselves - someone always has to be out there with them, even just to do their business...now she wants ME outside with her everytime she needs to go out.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: How long will it take to get over this??? :lol: :lol:

[quote]We're lost without you Court! So glad to have yah back! [/quote] Oh how sweet!! Thanks Rowie!! Glad to be back. I missed you all, and was frustrated that I had no internet access where I was. I was DYING to tell this story!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[quote]There Are laws in most places that dont allow people too closely related to mate - cousins, 2nd cousins, 3rd cousins...it becomes a genetic nightmare and causes diseases. diseases like lack of the ability for blood to clot - common among the Aristocracies that bred too close to home. Hemophelia. [/quote] what really amazes me about all of that, is that the reason the aristocracies inbred that way (without realizing the consequences at the time) is because they didnt want to "breed" outside of the royal family!!!! They thought they were keeping their "royalty" intact - dont want to have any commoners in the family or anything.....how arrogant can you get??? they brought down their own houses, from disease, because they didnt want to mix with the "lowly"....most of whom were NOT inbred and would have saved the royal familes from disease and ruin..... we really are a strange creature when you think about it.....in nature, inbreeding is rare, because instinct and natural selection make the rules....

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: thanks Gooey - somehow I missed that.

I never saw it before. It looks like an OK product, since it does swivel and gives the dog freedom of movement in a yard, but I still have issues with leaving a dog outside all day long tied like that. It looks like it would be good for a house with no fence, so the dog could play outside for a while, providing there are no trees around that it could tangle around. For a wide open space and an hour or so outside, it would be ok. Under supervision, of course. Of course, before I bought it I would like to touch it first.... I still prefer the overhead lines between a house and tree, or pole, that you attach another lead to, if you dont have a fence.

Like Rott, I too am done with this thread. Hollywood, we were only trying to warn you for your and your dogs own good. Inherited traits are there, dormant, passive maybe, but there.... [quote]You can't train the urge to retrieve out of a retriever. You can't train the urge to point out of a pointer. [/quote] this is my personal proof. My dog is a Lab/GSP mix - she retrieves constantly, without ever being trained to do so. She points constantly, without ever being trained to do so. Where did she gets these talents? She inherited them, from the breed standards that created the two dogs who created her.... I give up. We tried to help, for your sake. I just hope that your dogs dont "turn on" while you're at the park, and you end up having to put them down.

[quote]I absolutely disagree, Cassie. If animals in nature "know" not to breed incestually, then wouldn't domesticated animals "know" the same thing? Wouldn't a male dog, say, refuse to mate with his daughter? [/quote] They do "know" in a way that our dogs dont...in a wolf pack, only the alpha male and female are allowed to mate. In some rare instances, due to pack size being too small for viability, the beta's will also be allowed to mate. The interesting thing is that ONLY the alpha (and occasionally beta) females come into season. That's how nature controls the whole structure. and then only once a year. with domestication, the pack rules got changed drastically. also, with purebreeding, the natural rythym got changed as well. Some domestic dogs come into heat three times a year, some more. Because of the pack rules, an alpha male will not mate with his daughter because she wont come into season, and an alpha female will not mate with her son because the alpha male wont allow it. I'm not sure how it works with horses and deer, but I magine it;s something similar....

I dont know where you are, but the reason that "inbreeding" is not allowed in most places amongst people is because the genetic code is destroyed by breeding "too close to home". There Are laws in most places that dont allow people too closely related to mate - cousins, 2nd cousins, 3rd cousins...it becomes a genetic nightmare and causes diseases. diseases like lack of the ability for blood to clot - common among the Aristocracies that bred too close to home. Hemophelia. The same diseases come up in dogs. Bred too close to home, they have temperment problems, they have health issues, and generally, dont live too long. You have to keep the genetic diversity strong, for all the "children" to be strong, and able to survive. If you have dogs bred "too close to home". they WILL have major issues. Nasty issues... Inbreeding has been a major problem for dogs...the inbred dogs are not "nice", are not "trainable" are not "loving"... and they end up in shelters, because their owners didnt knoe any better, and now have a dog they cant deal with.... this needs to stop....

I'M NOT HAPPY... they didnt have either Labs or Goldens in this test.... are they assuming that Labs and Goldens are SOOOOO docile they dont need the test????? MY DOG IS A LAB AND IS NOT DOCILE!!! She does NOT like strangers... She does NOT like small children.... She does NOT like a number of other dogs... why wasnt this breed tested? Not all LABS are "wonderful family dogs" "good with children" "likes everybody".... The "Breed Standards" are causing more harm then good... Rott, you KNOW how I feel about this....Dogs are ANIMALS!!! They dont ALL fit the Breed Standard specifics... :evil:

[quote]With the APBT dog aggression is a nautral unavoidable occurance in the breed, if its going to happen it will, no matter what you do. If not great but dont think that it was because of some magic step you took along the way. Your responsibility to the breed is to socialize and train your dog and in the event of dog-aggression you dont turn your back on him/her. SOme people have actually had thier dogs euthanized because of it, or give them to shelters or to less than scrupulous owners. You can keep it controlled and manageable. If a dog doesnt want to play nice with other dogs you cant make it, but that doesnt mean he is any less a great pet or family companion. [/quote] thank you Rott!! training a Pit out of people aggression is relatively easy, you just show them that most people are NOT BAD. They are people-orientated dogs anyway. They are known as good family pets, and can be easily swayed from aggression towards people, since they dont want to be aggressive towards people anywy. You CANT sway them from being animal aggressive, it's "in their blood". If you want to keep a Pit, you have to realize that the potential for animal aggression is always there. It doesnt mean they are bad "house pets"' they just shouldnt be allowed free access to other dogs without being on a lead.