What's in a Name?Am Staff vs. Pit bull

[pzoo9]

Quick question for anyone who knows Am Staffs.

Is there a difference? I am under the impression that an Am Staff is an actual AKC breed and a pit bull is a mix of any number of breeds including Am Staff, bull terrier, bulldog, boxer etc.

Just curious as I have seen the Am Staffs in dog shows and the dogs adopted out from the shelter or sold as puppies around here and they are very different.

[pzoo9]

Ok, I haven't read the posts lately. It looks like there is some discussion on this topic under APBT. Nevermind.

[Lucky Chaos]

American Pit Bull Terriers and AmStaffs are two different breeds, that were once a single breed. The AKC didn't like the name "pit" so they renamed the dogs American Staffordshire Terrier and registered it. Today they are two different breeds (though this is debated). The Amstaff is usually larger and stockier, while a well bred APBT is smaller and leaner. Funny thing though, an AKC registered AmStaff can be registered with the UKC as a APBT, but a UKC APBT cannot be registered with the AKC. The kennel club that seems to keep APBT's to their original look is the ADBA.

Heres a pic of an AKC registered AmStaff. This dog was the 2005 Westminster best of breed.

[img]http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2005/photos/breed/RM30768710.jpg[/img]

A United Kennel Club registered AmStaff.
Grand Champion 'PR' Matrix's TRINITY of Braveheart CGC DNA-VIP

[img]http://www.matrixkennels.com/Trinityb4ADBAsmall.jpg[/img]

And a more ADBA looking dog, Casey owned by a friend of mine.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/Bubbathestaffybull/casepkstand.jpg[/img]

[Phez718]

Hey Steph, that scrawny fawn dog in the third pic looks familiar... :wink:

Essentially, the American Pit Bull Terrier was the only such breed, but when the AKC opened up its stud books to the breed it changed the name in order to remove the pit fighting aspect of the breed name.

I believe that when the AKC closed its stud books for the American Staffordshire Terrier, the beginning of a different breed had begun. The AKC breeders began taking pieces of the breed standard and working on one trait at a time til they had cookie cutter dogs of the standard.

The ADBA on the other hand, continued breeding for performace and were more concerned about gameness and whether the dog was structurally sound enough to complete whatever tasks were asked of it rather than breed standards.

If you attend an ADBA show and an AKC show today, you will see what I mean. The AKC shows have the dogs stacked perfectly and standing still while the ADBA dogs are allowed to act up a little in the ring as long as they can hold a stack while it's their turn to be looked at by the judge. In fact, many ADBA judges like to see some attitude in the dogs, not out of control crazyness, just a little livelihood rather than a dead head dog. Just my opinion on the judging, from the shows I've attended.

So now, though the dogs may share similar traits and ancestry, I believe that they have been developed into two different breeds. Many of the American Pit Bull Terriers are still used as performance dogs and the American Staffordshire Terriers aren't so much anymore.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='FearedDogFan'].... American Pit Bull Terriers are generally the bigger and the meaner....[/quote]

Im sorry, but I just HAVE to..... First off... APBTs are not usually the bigger of the breeds you listed. Second off they are usually not the "meaner" of the breeds. If you knew anything about APBTs you would know they are the only breed that has ever been bred to NOT BITE people.
Please, dont answer a question if you dont know the answer to it. An opinion is one thing but answering like you know something when you obviously DONT, will piss off quite a few people. Right now, I am pretty ticked someone would say something SO completely ignorant.

Am Staffs are derived from the bloodlines of American Pit Bull Terriers. Some people think they are the same breed, others dont. It a very debatable subject. Usually, you will hear Am Staff owners say they are the same breed while APBT owners will say they are not. They have been seperated for years by bloodlines and you dont see the same qualities in the Am Staff as you do the APBT. I believe if you look through the debate forum you will see the topic has already been debated. I am one who doesnt think they are the same breed.

[pyrless]

i always thought that the AmStaff owed some of its lineage to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier?, like the American Foxhound to the English?

[Guest Mutts4Me]

[quote name='pyrless']i always thought that the AmStaff owed some of its lineage to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier?, like the American Foxhound to the English?[/quote]

A fairly quick, and definitely generalized, attempt at an explanation...

In England, "bulldogs" were used for bloodsports like bull and bear baiting... When those sports becaem illegal, people turned to dog fighting, as it was a much easier thing to keep "underground." Speculation is that terriers were mixed into the bulldogs to make them smaller and more agile, thus creating bull-and-terrier dogs (not everyone believes this and some consider the Pit Bull the true Bulldog)... from those bull-and-terriers sprung a few different breeds...

Some of the Bull-and-Terriers came to America for dogfighting and working purposes... Those developed into the American (Pit) Bull Terrier... Back in England, the Bull-and-Terriers developed into Stafforshire Terriers (Bull Terriers developed as well), a similar breed due to the same anscestory... but in time they were developed individually and so were two different breeds.

So back to America... In 1936 the AKC decided to recognize the APBT, except it didn't like the association with Dogfighting, and thus the "Pit" in its name. So it looked to where the breed originated and began registering APBTs as Staffordshire Terriers.... All the foundation dogs of the AmStaff were 100% American Pit Bull Terrier, just with a name change.

So originally, the Pit Bull and AmStaff were the exact same thing because they were the exact same dogs, but as time went on, (American) Stafforshire Terrier breeders began breeding for looks instead of performance ability, and some people today think that they've been bred apart so long that they are two entirely different breeds (like the Pit Bull and Staffy), although there are still plenty of dual registered AmStaffs (AKC)/APBTs (UKC).

So... when the AKC decided to accept the Pit Bull (Stafforshire Terrier)'s cousin from England, the Stafforshire [b]Bull[/b] Terrier, they stuck "American" in front of Stafforshire Terrier to help eliminate confusion.

So... The American Staffordshire Terrier's lineage is 100% APBT, not Stafforshire Bull Terrier, but they all have the same ancestory in Staffordshire England a long time ago before breeds were really developed, just "types."

[Guest Anonymous]

Thats a pretty good breakdown of one side of things. But there are so amny sides to this story.
Just wanted to make one comment on it....
[quote]The American Staffordshire Terrier's lineage is 100% APBT[/quote]
This isnt exactly true. Some of the first AmStaffs were of full-blooded APBT bloodlines but several were also mixes of the breed.

You will find several people who own AmStaffs who will call or say thier dogs are the same thing as an APBT, but you wont find very many APBT owners who say thier dogs are AmStaffs. IMO, they arent the same breed. They are different in so many ways. They say all dogs are derived from wolves so does that make the poodle down the road a wolf? No. The seperation and specific breeding of bloodlines have seperated each breed into something else over time. The same thing has happened, and, thank goodness, will continue to happen with the APBT and AmStaff.