queensland heeler

[Guest Anonymous]

Abby is 1 1/2 yr old heeler. We have not had any livestock for her to heel but she has now had the heeler in her come out when our grandchildren were visiting we had to watch her very closely or she would nip when they were walking down the hall. She now has also tried this with adults who she dosn't yet know or those we believe that she doesn't trust. We understand that this bread in trait, but we would like any suggestions on how we might keep her from heeling people.

[deepseasnake]

I dont know a whole lot about the dog myself, but from here it sounds like a soc. problem. Your dog should be able to "turn it off" when she is in the house and as long as you are Alpha you should be able to stop that behaivor with a verbal command. You obviously must have tried this already so I might try to reastablish dominance of the house. There are many methods of doing this and some were disscussed shortly on a post under the "All about dogs" forum in the "dogs dont get along" subject I went ahead and looked it up for you and it is still there. Skip ahead to page 3 as everything before that is jibber jabber.

in a nutshell my 2 surefire methods is to lift the dog into the air until both his feet are off the ground and press his back against the wall. talking VERY sternly, dont yell becasue you are not going for freaked ou,t your going for scared and submissive. When you give commands in this manner make sure it is IMMEDIATLY after he does what he's not supposed to do! if he has a chance to run away or flinch as you come at him, you have already lost your initative. Being lightning fast is half of the effectiveness of this practice. You can also lift him up and "pin" him to the ground for awhile not allowing him to move his legs. also use your stern voice and always say the same phrase when you catch him in the act! this is basically what happens in a pack when the Alpha is showing whos boss this way the dog is forced to "give in" to you. my other way is similar in princaple, by grabing the scruff of his neck and lifting his front paws off the ground a similar effect is achieved, but in older dogs this will sometimes hurt them so be careful,

good luck and keep us posted :D

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='bb']Abby is 1 1/2 yr old heeler. We have not had any livestock for her to heel but she has now had the heeler in her come out when our grandchildren were visiting we had to watch her very closely or she would nip when they were walking down the hall. She now has also tried this with adults who she dosn't yet know or those we believe that she doesn't trust. We understand that this bread in trait, but we would like any suggestions on how we might keep her from heeling people.[/quote]


PLEASE don't try the method as suggested by Deepseasnake because it won't work on this breed of dog. A person that has no idea about this breed should not be giving advice. If you follow the method that was suggested, Abby may think that you just don't want her displaying this behaviour around you and she'll start doing it when you are not around.

Without knowing your dog and her personality, I am writing this as if she has been around the grandchildren and likes them --- she is just concerned about their reason for them being in her domain.

I have raised Australian Cattle Dogs for about 25 years. You can't "TURN IT OFF" as suggested by the response post. It is a characteristic, it is bred into them, it is genetics. You can't beat it out of them, can't yell it out of them, you can't scare it out of them. You must learn how to manage them.

Heelers and other herding bred dogs should NOT be sold to pet families unless that family fully understands their characteristics and is willing to manage them accordingly. A person who doesn't have this knowledge usually gets tired of them and sends them to the pound or dumps them on the side of the road. Their herding characteristics and attitude tend to get more strong the older they get.

Was Abby socialized as a puppy? Is she being socialized now as an adult? How old are your grandchildren? She may view them as "prey", if they are young in age. Have you ever scolded the children for running down the hall? (this question is important for later). I assume that she has bonded with you? Whomever she has bonded with, needs to be the person that manages her initially. I am writing this as if you are that person. [b]Is she playing or is she serious? [/b] I am writing this as if she is serious and not just wanting to play.

A dog that is serious, that sneaks in, nips and retreats is trying to establish his/her status and is trying to see just how far he can go without getting in trouble. "Testing the waters", like a child does. She is seeing just how much she can get away with. This behavior of nipping (doing what they were bred for years to do) is one of the reasons why Heelers end up in the pound.

She is also trying to tell you that she is not happy with another person in her domain. Heelers are very protective about their territory/property/family. You are her "pack" and since the grandchildren and other people don't live in the "den" with the "pacK", they are viewed as an outsider or a threat to her pack (you) and her territory.

Put her on a lead and teach her the "DOWN", "DOWN-STAY" and "OFF" command. "OFF" is used to make her "get-off" something and "DOWN" is used to put her in a position that she can't get to what ever she is doing that she isn't supposed to be doing, and "DOWN-STAY" is when you want her to remain down for a period of time. As soon as she learns the commands, have someone that she normally nips, walk down the hall. As soon as she even looks like she is going to nip, say "off", "down", "stay". Be consistent and firm but, no abusive. Remember, you are trying to manage her behavior.

Heelers, by nature, have dominate personalities -- so, expect for her to challenage you every time on this. Heelers bond with one person in the family and will tolerate the rest (living in the household). They take direction from one person and tend to ignore everyone else --- thus, some people think they are stupid. NOT the case. They are very intelligent. They see a situation and act accordingly. Heelers tend to enforce the rules of the house and everyone else in the world is under them (status wise). Be careful when or if you have to scold the grandchildren, because Abby may feel that she also has to discipline them. This is usually in the form of a nip or pinch. She will watch them closely and if they break the rules, they get nipped again. AND this is one of the reasons, also, that Heelers end up euthanized or dumped at the pound. People don't understand their characteristics and view this as vicisiousness, when in fact it is not.

It is very important that after she learns her commands that someone else in the family give her the command, even the grandchildren. She will be reluctant to obey anyone other than the one that she has bonded with. She needs to understand that she must take direction from everyone in the family, and not just her primary master. She will revert to her old behavior as soon as you are not in the room --- keep this in mind --- unless she understands that she must obey everyone in the house (not just her "pack family"). While on the lead and you there, have your grandchild tell her to down. She will immediately look at you --- don't tell her to down, instead have your grand child tell her to down again and you step on the lead making her down. It is important for you NOT to repeat the command after your grandchild or other person has --- if you do this you have just told her that she doesn't have to listen to them, just you. Understand? Be consistant and you may have to repeat this often.

When she obeys with no hesitation, take her off the lead and try her off lead. When you see that she is obeying, try leaving the room, but peeking around the corner out of her view and have the grandchild walk down the hall way ----- have him/her give the down-stay command. This is why I asked about their age. Are they old enough to insist that she obeys?

[b][u]It is VERY, VERY important that you KNOW your dog. [/u][/b]Some Heelers take great, and I mean [b]GREAT[/b], offense at someone else telling them what to do. They view this as an unforgiveable slap in the face and I've known some Heelers that have challenaged the person holding the leash (the person that is NOT their number one master). So, be very careful when you do this and make sure that she isn't going to bite the person holding the leash giving her the command. I'm not trying to scare you or make anyone think that Heelers are rouge dogs. I just want you to know all the options.

Some people may dispute my next statement, that is fine because I bet they are only going on ONE or TWO Heelers that they or a friend may have owned. Heelers bite. If given the right opportunity, they will bite. It doesn't matter how well trained they are, how sweet, how gentle ---- [b]if given the right opportunity [/b]--- they WILL bite (like every other breed). They have been bred for generations as a herding dog and not as a family pet. They have a "take no crap" attitude. Heelers are not to be trusted around children, as any other breed is not to be. I have raised, worked and love many Heelers for many years. I know their personalities, their quirks, their attitude, their likes and dislikes, I know how they think. I learn something different from every one that I meet.

Please email me personally, if you have any further questions. I'll try to help you as much as I can. Email me at: [email][email protected][/email]

Good luck.

[deepseasnake]

you know, thats fine because the first line of my response was "I dont know a whole lot about the dog" what you said makes sense but honestly I dont see a WHOLE lot of differance between what I said and what you said. either way she needs to teach the dog to behave, right? I gave MY methods and refered to others methods. so I did what I could, I'm glad you showed up and said what you did, but this place would be quite dull if responses were only givin by owners of that specific breed.

you told her to establish an off comand and told her that the dog would compete for dominance. our methods may be differant, but the goal and product is the same

[quote]...You can't beat it out of them...[/quote]

come on I never said anything like BEAT IT OUT OF HER. dogs are animals none the less and I have seen wonderful things done with dogs by being stern, not abusive but stern, and your right I never had a heeler but I gave a piece of my doggy knowledge in a helping spirit and that info I gave can help alot of dogs and their owners out there, maybe not your highty mighty heeler but all in all it was sound advice

[deepseasnake]

no K,
I didnt mean that in a harsh way, I was just justifing my reply. I think it was right of me to give my advise even if I dont know the breed. I still think I should give my advice, I was trying to help. Other than that our replys really wernt polar opposits, to me they pretty much said the same thing, in regaurd to the question, he obviously knew more about the breed and gave insight in how the dog thinks but as far as addressing the problem it wasnt all that differant from what I said. I dont understand this guys first paragraph, if I stated some sacralige that would turn the dog to a werewolf than yeah he should tell the world I'm full of sh!t but I dont think I did that. if I did I didnt mean to and I apologize

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='deepseasnake']you know, thats fine because the first line of my response was "I dont know a whole lot about the dog" what you said makes sense but honestly I dont see a WHOLE lot of differance between what I said and what you said. either way she needs to teach the dog to behave, right? I gave MY methods and refered to others methods. so I did what I could, I'm glad you showed up and said what you did, but this place would be quite dull if responses were only givin by owners of that specific breed.

you told her to establish an off comand and told her that the dog would compete for dominance. our methods may be differant, but the goal and product is the same

[quote]...You can't beat it out of them...[/quote]

come on I never said anything like BEAT IT OUT OF HER. dogs are animals none the less and I have seen wonderful things done with dogs by being stern, not abusive but stern, and your right I never had a heeler but I gave a piece of my doggy knowledge in a helping spirit and that info I gave can help alot of dogs and their owners out there, maybe not your highty mighty heeler but all in all it was sound advice[/quote]


I am very sorry that you took offense to my comment. I was not nor did I intend to even remotely relate that you said you beat your dog or was an advocate of beating a dog. It was mearly a comment and not directed at you, again --- I appologize if you felt that it was.

Your information that you provided may in fact work on any breed of dog. It has been my experience that it doesn't work with this breed. A true dominant dog, the alpha roll is very dangerous and could result in a facial lacerations. This method may work on a more submissive personality.

I have a true dominant male, he is a strong herding dog and takes no gruff from the cattle or anyone else. He knows his job and does it very well without ever complaining. I know this dog, I know him inside and out. If I even attempted the alpha roll, it would be a rolling gunfight. We respect each other. He knows his boundaries, I know mine --- we get along fine. I respect him, he respects me.

Again, I appologize it was not my intent to belittle or attack your advice, knowledge or intelligence in any way shape or form.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='K']Hey Deep woah! now she never said your reply was wrong just wrong for Heelers..neither of us know about Heelers and she does!! but we know a lot about aggressive?/dominant breeds and she maybe does'nt..we all need to be a bit open minded that different breeds react better to different methods..we know our breed ..she knows hers ..no biggie..I would go along with some of your methods but for different situations and different dogs.... 8)[/quote]


Thanks K. Your picture looks like you have Pit Bulls? I have never owned one, and it's not likely that I will ever have the chance. All that I know is what I've been told or read. I would not give advice on their training as I have not studied the dog as a breed and would not want to offer any advice (not knowing how they think).

I do appologize to the readers and to Deepseasnake if my comments offended any one.

Everyone has something to offer and all information is valuable because every dog is different. One size does not fit all when it comes to dogs.

[Guest Anonymous]

YEAH! An [u]almost [/u]fight that ended quickly and nicely!!!!!!!!!

[deepseasnake]

hey guys I have not been able to logon for whatever stupid reason,

thank you for your apology

but hey I read to fast and sometimes I get defensive unnecessarily but no harsh feelings, I'll be sure to leave all the ACD and heeler questions to you :wink: and stay out of it

[Guest Anonymous]

K, yes I have thought about it.

This may be my computer screen, but the picture of your dog is hilarious. When I first saw it, I thought he/she was wearing a Halloween costume. I laughed so hard, but now I realize....it's not a costume. Okay, the back teeth makes him/her look as if he/she is wearing dracula fangs --- so cute! And the ears looks like little devil horns. I thought for a long time, cool dog to wear a dracula costume!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:

[Guest Anonymous]

Okay, duh....I went to and visited your pictures. NOW I see what I was seeing......pictures are so deceiving. Okay, I know you are laughing your self to death ---- breathe....breathe....! You are going to "pee from excitement" if you don't stop laughing at me.

The "cape" is really just a shadow! The shadow is highlighting the ears, which reminds me of devil horns! The tongue is at the correct angle to make the back jaw teeth look like fangs ------- are you still laughing?? Yep, thought so.

Okay, now that I'm back from the depths of ignorance .............

[deepseasnake]

Hobbit, if you could please go to "GSP/red Doberman mix" thread under the Everything about dogs forum, there are some girls, velcroing their Aussies to the ceiling, for "training" :wink:

[bk_blue]

:lol: the Dracula dog!!
That was really good advice Hobbit, and you are SO right when you say that heelers don't take any crap- and will answer back if they think they can get away with it! :)

[Guest Anonymous]

BK -- it shows on the message board that you responded, but when I open the thread, your response is not there! :o :o

Is anyone else having this problem?? I can go and look all the posts by bk response is there ---- but it isn't showing in the (topic) posted messages for that topic. :(

[bk_blue]

That's really weird... I can see them... I'll try logging out and see if I can still see them then (you probably can't see this post at all!!!)

[Guest Anonymous]

This bk_blue here... I can see my posts on other topics but not this one :o, nor can I see Hobbit's last replies (I can see them below, as I reply, but not in the actual post, so same prob as Hobbit)...? I guess it is a weird board malfunction and hopefully it will fix itself, the computer works in frustratingly mysterious ways LOL

[Guest Anonymous]

Okay.....I THINK I have figured it out!! Go to the message board and look at the last person that posted a reply, now look next to the name and you'll see an arrow and an icon of a piece of paper looking thing....CLICK ON THAT! When I done that --- it automatically popped up the messages that I couldn't see.

Hope it works. I couldn't see the last one posted by "Guest", either until I clicked on the icon and then it popped up bk's and Guest's past posts!! 8)

[bk_blue]

Ack, stupid computers! They're not right ALL the time ;)
BK is almost ready to move up to Class 2 obedience, which is good news. We just need to work a little more on the sit-stay, of course he does it perfectly at home and at the park but not in class where he will be tested on it!

[bk_blue]

I told you, IT'S THE ELVES *waves to CIA, ASIO or whoever is monitoring this conversation* :wink:

[bk_blue]

Bring Your Own Beer? Bolivian Yodelling Opera Brothers?
:o 8)

[corgilady]

BRING YOUR OWN BORED BORDER COLLIE! :o

ruff! ruff! ruff! <can you hear my background noise?>

[bk_blue]

or Bring Your Own Bluey... :lol: *high-pitched whining and play barking at the kitchen window, non-stop until the leash is produced* This happens about 4.30pm every day. :D

[bk_blue]

Bella, bella! :D