Crates and a crying pup, could use some tips...

[Guest Anonymous]

Hi again,

As some of you know I brought home a Male Boxer pup yesterday (8 weeks), tonight will be his 2nd night in the crate.

He seems to like the crate, or at least not mind it, provided that someone else is within his field of vision.

Else if he is awake and no one is there (lights on / TV / toys do NOT help) he really causes a commotion in a way that I didn't think a dog could - it is not barking at all, it is a strange mixture of urgent sounds that sound almost human and at times coming out of more than one throat.

Anyway, weirdness aside, I tried it today when I was the only one in the house - daytime, I went upstairs and he started... I waited around 10 minutes to see if he would get over it and not a hint that he was getting tired.

As soon as he sees someone, tail (stub?) wags and all is well.

When he started with this last night my daughter sneaked downstairs and slept on the living room floor next to the crate. Not a peep from the pup.

So, not sure how to handle this tonight - having someone sleeping on the floor doesn't sound right for either party.

Letting him do his thing all night long is definitely not good for anyone in the house, including him.

Letting him get on someone's bed would solve it, but he is not house-trained yet and too early to allow that.

I thought maybe bringing him to a small bathroom upstairs, without a crate (just a beanbag he took possession of) may help, but then so much for crate training.

Or just bracing ourselves for a few nights?

Thoughts?

Thanks for any ideas that may help!

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Anonymous']Hi again,

As some of you know I brought home a Male Boxer pup yesterday (8 weeks), tonight will be his 2nd night in the crate.

He seems to like the crate, or at least not mind it, provided that someone else is within his field of vision.

Else if he is awake and no one is there (lights on / TV / toys do NOT help) he really causes a commotion in a way that I didn't think a dog could - it is not barking at all, it is a strange mixture of urgent sounds that sound almost human and at times coming out of more than one throat.

Anyway, weirdness aside, I tried it today when I was the only one in the house - daytime, I went upstairs and he started... I waited around 10 minutes to see if he would get over it and not a hint that he was getting tired.

As soon as he sees someone, tail (stub?) wags and all is well.

When he started with this last night my daughter sneaked downstairs and slept on the living room floor next to the crate. Not a peep from the pup.

So, not sure how to handle this tonight - having someone sleeping on the floor doesn't sound right for either party.

Letting him do his thing all night long is definitely not good for anyone in the house, including him.

Letting him get on someone's bed would solve it, but he is not house-trained yet and too early to allow that.

I thought maybe bringing him to a small bathroom upstairs, without a crate (just a beanbag he took possession of) may help, but then so much for crate training.

Or just bracing ourselves for a few nights?

Thoughts?

Thanks for any ideas that may help![/quote]
he is missing mom and siblings and making a ruckus because is also away from his new pack.
I normally plan on 3 nights of little to no sleep with a new pup being crated.
Do not remove him from the crate and stuff him in a bathroom - won't reduce the noise the problem is not the crate.
while I would advocate toughing it out now another option at night is to put him in his crate next to your bed - they make great nightstands and leave him in it even if he makes a ruckus ( be sure to note the difference between potty ruckus and lonely pack seperation problem ruckus though)

[Smooshie]

Ralph,

"Guest" pretty much nailed it on the head (IMO). He's lonely for his littermates! Below is an excerpt from an article on crate training taken from the "ALL ABOUT DOGS" website (its the guideline I used when I crate trained Loki)....pay particular attention to the section called "First Night at Home" It pretty much reinforces "Guest's" suggestion,but goes into greater detail...

CRATE TRAINING YOUR PUPPY OR ADULT DOG
By P. Kalbaugh


<Setting The Rules From The Beginning
If your puppy whines when you first put him in his crate it is probably because he would rather be snuggled up close to you the way he was with his littermates. If you allow the puppy access to your lap, bed, couch or chair when you first get the puppy then it will be harder to eliminate these behaviors as the puppy grows up. Think of what the adult size of your dog will be and decide if you have room in your lap, bed, etc. for the the adult dog. You must decide before you bring the puppy home what the "rules" will be and then stick to them.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

POSITIVE ASSOCIATIONS
Crate training should all be done positively with no negative associations. When you first bring the puppy home from the breeder, have the crate ready and comfortable for the puppy. I put a towel or a washable pad in the crate, possibly a pillow so it is an inviting area for the puppy. (My dogs crates are as comfortable and inviting as my own bed!) I get a small yummy treat (small piece of raw hot dog works well) and allow the puppy to sniff it and then lure the puppy into the crate with the treat. When the puppy goes into the crate to get the treat and explore the new area I just leave the door open and let him come out as he wishes. I don't force the pup into the crate and I don't make him stay in there the first several times. I then repeat putting a treat in the crate, allowing the puppy to go in on his own for the treat. I do this several times and praise the puppy gently while it's in the crate and associate a word or phrase for going in the crate. My word association is "kennel up". I use the word association AS I'm putting the treat into the crate and the puppy is following it in. Do this about five times and then quit for awhile. Repeat this proceedure several times the first day.
Closing The Crate Door
When the puppy is going in after the treat comfortably and when the puppy has just finished playing and piddling and is tired, lure the puppy into the crate with the treat as you have before only this time close the door. I also put a new toy in the crate at this time. Something the puppy hasn't seen before and something that is interesting and will keep his attention for a few minutes. After I close the door, I sit on the floor in front of the crate and talk to the puppy if necessary. If the puppy cries or whines, I put my fingers through the grate in the door to reassure the puppy that I am still there. Usually, they will only whine for a short while and may even fall asleep if they are tired. I stay there until the whining subsides and the puppy calms down and then open the crate door. 5-10 minutes usually. If the puppy happens to fall asleep, great! I let him sleep in the crate until he wakes up and then it's right outside to go potty. I don't use alot of praise and fanfare when I open the crate door and I ignore the puppy for a few minutes after he is out so that he doesn't get the impression that getting out is much more fun than being in the crate. I do not let the puppy out of the crate until he is quiet for at least 30 seconds and has calmed down if he has been whining. I might try and distract him with another toy to give him a chance to be quiet so I can let him out while he is quiet but I WILL NOT let him out, especially the first time, until he IS quiet. I don't yell or correct in any negative way. I just make up my mind that I will calmly wait the puppy out no matter what.

The First Night At Home
If you have gotten your puppy during the day and had time to do the above steps, great! The puppy will already be familiar with going in the crate after a treat. If not, and you want to begin the puppy's life at his new home sleeping in a crate here's what to do. I play with the puppy till he's tired, make sure he has pottied outside and place the comfortable crate (with pad and towels etc.) on a chair or table right next to my bed where I can reach it while I'm still lying down. My night stand is set up for this purpose. I remove any collar that might be unsafe, place or lure the tired puppy into the crate (possibly with a safe toy) go to bed and turn out the lights as usual. If the puppy whines, I place my fingers in the grate of the crate and talk softly to the puppy until he falls asleep. I may lose a little sleep that night and possibly the next but I will NOT open the door for the puppy for at least four hours. (I repeat: the puppy has successfully pottied just before this!). I do not get angry with the puppy or yell at him but I do not give in and let him out either. If the crate is comfortable and warm enough, the lights are out and you are right there to talk softly to him and let him lick your fingers, then usually he will fall asleep within an hour, less if he is tired. At eight weeks of age you cannot expect the puppy to go more than four hours without pottying. So, as soon as the puppy whines after waking up, have your sweats, shoes and shirt ready to take the puppy outside. Dress yourself quickly before you open the crate, carry the puppy to the potty area immediately, praise softly and gently for a job well done, bring him back in and without getting into a play session with him, return the puppy to his crate, turn the lights out and go back to sleep. If the puppy fusses for awhile, talk softly and put your fingers in the grate of the crate. Two or three nights of this at the most and your puppy will be used to the routine. If you happen to sleep through the puppy whining and he is forced to potty in his crate because he can't hold it, don't blame or scold the puppy. It is your responsibility to get the puppy out BEFORE he has had a chance soil his den. Clean it up using a urine neutralizer (I use a light vinegar and water mix) put clean towels or pads in the crate and return to your routine. Set an alarm clock if you have to. The crate should not be too big for the pup, otherwise there will be enough room for the puppy to soil in it's crate and not think about it as soiling his sleeping area. Later on, after the puppy is used to it's routine and after he no longer needs to go out every four hours, you can put the crate on the floor of your bedroom or somewhere else in the house.>




If you'd like to read the article in its entirety,the site url is:
[url]http://www.siriusweb.com/AAD/crate.html[/url]

BTW, did you decide on a name for him yet? :D ...Oh, and I sent you a private message earlier. I'm not sure if you received it,but THAT site is definately worth checking out...you might find some great crate training tips posted there :D

[Guest Anonymous]

When we got Hazel; I bought a "fuzzy man" that day before we went to get her. Basically it was one of those fleece toys you get at petsmart that squeeks. I then had the breeder rub the toy all over Hazel's mom to get the scent. I put that in the crate with her at night and that seemed to help alot... She still uses it as a pillow, even though the orriginal has long since been distroyed by her puppy teeth. It's her favorite toy, if you want her attention squeek it! She loves it even more now that she has figured out how to squeek it herself!
Good luck

[GizmoRedNosePit]

Stuffed animals work and a radio on lightly or one of those old clocks that tick usually help. If it goes on for more then a week then you just need to train them during the day not to make a peep and that it is a good place to be.

Good luck, went threw the same thing.......She now loves her crate and lets us know when we all need to goto bed...it's so funny! LOL

[Guest Anonymous]

We had the same problem with our new pup. we found the stuffed toy trick worked a treat at night, the toy was roughly the same size as her. I would imagine that if you could get the breeder to rub the toy on the mother to scent it, it would work even better. We couldn't with our pup as she is a rescue pup found on the streets.


Good luck.


James :D

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks.

I tried placing the crate next to my son's bed, that helped but not completely.

Placing the crate next to my bed (where I could touch it if needed) worked just great.

He had a great night (and so did we).

I'll keep this up for a few nights and go from there. I don't mind him there at all.

[Guest Anonymous]

my puppy has been sleeping in the bed between my boyfriend and me. (yes the same that I have mentioned before as a dog hater!) He is no longer a dog hater and he was actually the one to put him in the bed. He usually sleeps with us for a little while then moves to the floor then gets in bed with us in the morning.

I should have thought about the size before we started this habit. He is going to be large and there is hardly room now... we might have to get a king size bed. :lol: He is 3.5 months and close to 40 lbs.

Ralph, I've been through this a few times. the first few days are the worst. I was so tired... don't worry it gets better soon. Now I can sleep late sometimes even.

[mouseatthebusstop]

hows it going now? i used one of my sons unwashed tee-shirts so she had her new family scent to sleep with. two nights and she was fine. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

we had the same problem when we first got Lexie. The first night was horrible. She cried so much and it was ear piercing. We brought her into the bedroom and put her crate next to our bed, but that didn't work. So finally, we just put her in bed with us. In two minutes, she curled up in between us and was out like a light. She wasn't housebroken either, but she never once soiled the bed. It was kind of like she knew, that peeing on the bed was not acceptable. Not only did her sleeping on the bed with us stop her from crying, but we could sleep the whole night without having to get up to take her out. She would sleep right thru the night until about 6 the next morning. She still sleeps with us, but occasionaly she likes to sleep on the dog bed with my other dog. It's on the floor next to our bed so she knows we're not too far away!!

[Guest Anonymous]

I've been sticking to the crate next to my bed approach and last noght was better than the one before (no full cries, just hints and then settle). Hoping tonight will be even better.

New problem / concern though:

By now it has been unavoidable to leave the pup alone during the day for a couple of hours at the time. I put him in the crate of course, and he goes nuts when we leave (I can hear from the outside).

Isn't he hating the crate those times, and am I then defeating the point of friendly crate-training? Thoughts?

[Guest Anonymous]

are you putting anything in the crate with him? i.e a chew toy or something? Maybe that will keep him occupied? Eventually, he's going to get used to it. Like I said, my pup cried and cried, but now when we're home she'll sometimes just go in there on her own to lie down and get away from my other dog. I think all he needs is a little time! Good Luck

[Guest Anonymous]

well its always hard the first few nights wit a new pup
yes they do miss their mommy and siblings but tahts normal-they all do it :roll:
have u tried singing lullabys to him and cradling to sleep? thats what i used to do to my dog and she slept pretty quiet but she was also in my room but in a little box bed and there werre newspapers around her
jsut sing softly to them like maybe a hym, christmas carols are always great like silent night
they might be more relaxed if u put a big stuffed dog animal and put a clock and a warming bottle next to the pup to get the impression of his mom(the tiking as a heartbeat and warming bottle as body heat of mother)
tell us how hes doin!!!!!
by the way wats his name? :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Mei-Mei'][quote]my puppy has been sleeping in the bed between my boyfriend and me. (yes the same that I have mentioned before as a dog hater!) He is no longer a dog hater and he was actually the one to put him in the bed. He usually sleeps with us for a little while then moves to the floor then gets in bed with us in the morning. [/quote]

Hey Abusser, not trying to be rude, but you may want to rethink having the puppy sleep in the bed with you. It's usually a very bad idea, especially with dominant breeds. They begin to believe they have ALPHA status. You should probably buy pup his own little bed so he can sleep on the floor next to you.

Just a suggestion! :)[/quote]

my puppy is great dane/rottie.... so i'm not sure if he is a dominent breed or not. great dane No Rottie yes. He does act dominent. He always wants to sit on me or have a paw on me when I lying down. To make him accept my dominance I have to stand up then he will act submissive. Since he is not quite 4 months isn't this when he really tests us??? Alot of times he is on the floor when I go to bed but when I wake up he is sleeping between us.... so i'm not even sure when he gets in the bed. Sleeping in the bed is not just sleeping with his pack, but b/c it was ours in the first place it makes him the Alpha to join us???

[Guest Anonymous]

Hi folks,

Again wanted to say "Thanks!" for all the advice & support.

Going into night 6, we are collectively beat up, edgy and tired but the pup is happy and we see light at the end of the tunnel.

Noticed that he learns very very quickly! And it seems like he's been with us forever by now.

Names:

After pushing for "Zeus", "Macho" (Camacho) and almost finally settling on "Oscar" (De La Hoya"), one kid wanted "Blues" or "Scooby Doo", the other "Elmo".

His name, as of last night, is "Havoc". By unanimous decision <g>.

Yet another new concern:

So far there have been two occasions where he seems to get the hiccups, and his hind quarters convulse rythmically at steady intervals just like one's chest would suffer during a hiccup episode.

Lasts 1 or 2 minutes max.

Just hiccups or something to be more concerned about? Next vet visit not due for another week.

[Guest Anonymous]

That's funny, we actually went for "Chaos" first but decided it was too open for differences in pronunciation, particularly in a Latin community.

"Havoc" seemed less confusing for the pup in the long term. More shoutable too! <g>

[Smooshie]

lol...Chaos is another one of the names hubby and I tossed around before ultimately settling on "Loki" (who incidentally is named after Loki the Norse God of mischief and chaos.....or Matt Damon's character in "Dogma" :wink: )

BTW...Havoc is a great name!....very fitting for a Boxer :D

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Mei-Mei']As I said, it's just a suggestion, no need to get testy!
:wink:
Some breeds are constantly testing their owners for dominance. If I let my dogs sleep in the bed with me I can guarantee they would start to assert their dominance in other ways. But I guess it works for some people![/quote]

Sorry if my message came across as being "testy"... but I was actually asking real questions I don't know the answer to. I was trying to figure out why sleeping in my bed would make him feel more dominant.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Ralph']Hi folks,

Again wanted to say "Thanks!" for all the advice & support.

Going into night 6, we are collectively beat up, edgy and tired but the pup is happy and we see light at the end of the tunnel.

Noticed that he learns very very quickly! And it seems like he's been with us forever by now.

Names:

After pushing for "Zeus", "Macho" (Camacho) and almost finally settling on "Oscar" (De La Hoya"), one kid wanted "Blues" or "Scooby Doo", the other "Elmo".

His name, as of last night, is "Havoc". By unanimous decision <g>.

Yet another new concern:

So far there have been two occasions where he seems to get the hiccups, and his hind quarters convulse rythmically at steady intervals just like one's chest would suffer during a hiccup episode.

Lasts 1 or 2 minutes max.

Just hiccups or something to be more concerned about? Next vet visit not due for another week.[/quote]

I asked a similiar question about hiccups... my puppy gets them a lot. I didn't know if I should be concerned.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Mei-Mei'][quote]Sorry if my message came across as being "testy"... but I was actually asking real questions I don't know the answer to. I was trying to figure out why sleeping in my bed would make him feel more dominant.[/quote]

Oh, I'm sorry! I guess I read your message wrong. :-?

The 'not sleeping in the same bed' thing usually applies to naturally dominant dogs who may be crying at night. If you placate them constantly (by putting them in your bed or feeding them little treats) they may misinterpret the reason. Fawning is something subordinates do to the Alpha. Spoiling is something subordinates do to the Alpha. Your dog may think that he is sleeping with you by his own choice, and not yours. It doesn't always happen, but I think it's probably best to make sure all the ground rules are established before letting puppy sleep in your bed.[/quote]

I see what you are saying. It is true that when I pick him up to lay with me he usually tries to chew my clothes or bite me. He doesn't lay still then. The time that he joins us in bed is when he jumps in the bed early in the morning when we are still sleeping and cuddles up b/t us. So he is choosing when he gets in the bed. I am having dominance problems in other ways so it makes sense.