Guest Anonymous Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 Sorry Beagle, but i had to get back to work :x :x :x . I've read that dogs in general, that have the white gene in their DNA have fewer problems and are bigger than normal. Dont know if this is true as they didnt provide any research data or studies that they refer to. I, myself, WOULD get a Dobie with the white gene. Since it is a recessive gene you would have to make sure that the other dog that you plan on breeding her with does not carry it also. This would decrease the chances of the white gene coming into play. I was planing on visiting them when i was looking for my Doberman. I just wanted to get a puppy from parents that had their CGC, and the only one I could find was in Ohio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 I never said that I was getting a white doberman. I said I was getting my dobie from a kennel called white doberman. I would never get a white doberman, I am not that stupid people. I only said that the kennel has produced some white ones by accident and instead of culling them they just kept them and will never breed them. I agree with you Underdog I will get one with the white gene. And I have researched the breed countless numbers one times and I know all about the breed and health defects. Please people do not just come here, read one post and then "assume" that the person is getting or doing something they are not suppose to. You people here have assumed so many diffrent times. I have had it. I will be leaving this forum for good. As for the whole cropping issue, I will always crop and dock my dobies. I love the look. Big deal. Its my own choice so leave it that way. One more thing for the people who don't belive in cropping, please don't spay or neuter your dog.. as that would cause it pain, and it is your choice to give it that pain... :roll: you people really need to grow up and start acting your age. Goodbye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 Goodbye Beagle! See ya! Won't miss ya! I won't go into all of the HEALTH benefits of spaying and neutering. Jesse BSD was monorchid, one testicle retained. According to his breeder and the vet office, eventually his body would treat that as a 'foreign' object. There was a higher risk of cancer to leave it in. Even with dogs that have normally descended testicles, testicular cancer risk is eliminated by removal. Spaying your bitch, greatly reduces or removes the risk of mammary cancer. What real, tangible health benefit does tail docking and ear cropping provide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 oh that's what happens when I read a post like Beagles right after speaking to an irate pc user who needs training wheels on her office chair. Ok, I do wish to apologize for my rudeness in my previous post regarding Beagles threat to leave. It was uncalled for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiff Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 here we go again, it's only for looks, no health benefit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 Yeah Stiff, I know. The reason I alluded to health benefits was simply in response to Beagle being critical of those of us who spay and neuter, lumping those procedures along with ear cropping in regards to pain caused to the dog. I feel it is silly and spiteful for anyone to compare the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 Sash, if I ever even did get a white dobie (which I would never even think of doing) I would not breed it. I have not even said I was getting it from that kennel. It will be at least 1 -3 years before I can even buy him/her. If she/he DID have a white gene in her I would not breed the dog. I was just asking Underdog what he thought of the kennel. And yes I have been to that site about 30 million times. Thank you Underdog for helping me and not jumping all over me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roo Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 Beagle, I for one am very dissapointed in your leaving AGAIN, is this not the 4th or 5th time. Honestly, you asked us for our opinions, no one was rude, we all gave you our advice, what we thought etc. You tell US to grow up, I am sorry to inform you but WE ARE THE GROWN UPS. No one was trying to offend you, we all have different views on docking and ears, we all have different views on dogs, BEAGLE you are a member of this forum, you yourself feel free to give your opinions be they right or wrong, have i ever attacked what you have said? AND at the end of the day YOU BEAGLE asked us for our opinions, we gave them to you and what happened, oh dear tantrum. I really suggest you sit down and re read what has been written, swallow your pride and make another post. Please Beagle feel free to Pm me if you wish to. Roo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 Why does almost everyone here thinks that docking tails and cropping ears are painful??? Every breed has manipulated for there looks(with the expection of the working breeds) in one way or another. The standard for Dobermans have always been for dock tails and cropped ears. ONLY recently have the accepted the natural ears. As for bettering the breed Sasha, should the pits that are dog agressive be destroyed or culled at birth if they show any signs of agression? Its seems that when there is a Pit or mix-pit attack you always blame the owners, but the breed description(sp?) says that they can be dog agressive no matter the socializing or training it is exposed to. As for Carolk9s, I think you have been rude and try to force your opinions if they dont agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoRedNosePit Posted August 15, 2002 Author Share Posted August 15, 2002 Well Here is why I asked, I have a friend - go into my website and goto Friends of all types and they got Meadow from Wyoming or seomwhere like that and they dock pitbull tails and we were hacing a conversation and I just had to post.... But I just wanted to know everyone elses opinion and I got it and alot more! But thats ok! I would never dock gizzys tail as it is WAY to late to even think about it! Just had to ask... Does anyone know a site of Pitbulls that have their tails docked..... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoRedNosePit Posted August 15, 2002 Author Share Posted August 15, 2002 Meadow and Gizmo both have tails.... correct your details.....what!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 [quote name='Underdog']Why does almost everyone here thinks that docking tails and cropping ears are painful??? (snip) As for Carolk9s, I think you have been rude and try to force your opinions if they dont agree with you.[/quote] Gee, and I thought we ALL were voicing our opinions. Um, aren't you voicing your yours above? I do not believe I have been rude, I have NOT attacked anyone on a personal basis, I have not directly called anyone childish or told them to 'grow up'. I have kept those personal opinions to myself. I did apologize for a post that I felt was out of line. If you want to paint your dogs toenails shocking pink, go ahead! I wouldn't but this is not something that would be regarded as causing pain to your dog. If you want your dog to sit at the dinner table and eat with the family, go ahead. I cannot FORCE anyone to agree with me, I cannot FORCE anyone to change their way of thinking. I can hope that someday, someone, somewhere will consider others OPINIONS on matters that do cause an animal pain for something that is simply not necessary. I will continue to speak out as I feel in regards to what I perceive as animal cruelty, you may skip my post if you find it offensive or not in line with YOUR way of thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooshie Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 eeeek! is it HOT in here or is it me?? :wink: hmmmm, I'm staying out of the "to crop or not to crop" debate...I've been in too many heated "discussions" over that issue on other forums (take my advice....agree to disagree,and leave it at that...its a no-win topic) As for the white Dobie thing.....BEAGLE (if you ever come back), my advice is to steer VERY clear of any breeder that would knowingly breed Dobermans with the white gene. I would definately question their integrity and code of ethics. Please check out this website if you get a chance.... [url]http://www.geocities.com/~amazondoc/albinism/[/url] There seem to be so many health problems with these dogs.....breeding to purposely continue the white line seems almost cruel to me :( (JMHO) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 EEK!! Why is it everytime this subject comes up everybody gets so heated? :o I have to say that I am not partial to the cropped ear look... I do like ears that stand up, but they look like whole ears... I am not for or agenst... I have not researched enough to have an opinion. I will say that the vet I worked for absolutly did not do cropping, nor did they approve of declawing a cat. (Just had to add that.) As for tails, well I do like the look of a cropped tail, when I was younger my fav cat (I didn't like dogs then :oops: ) was a manx, but these cats if properly bred were born tailess... we even had a couple of cats with half tails (oh charly! he was so cool...) And Hazel, my australian shepherd has a stubby tail. Mind she was born that way... I think that is one of those things that decided me on her, of her 8 siblings only 2 of the tails had to be docked. I have seen aussies with tails and they are beautiful... but I like my wiggle butt! She's cute! I have heard that tailless dogs have no "rudder" but if you saw Hazel race about the yard you'd see she wasn't lacking! Of course Clare, the next door lab, races about with Hazel (Hazel can almost keep up with her now by the way!) and you can see her using her tail! Any way that's all I wanted to say... hope it wasn't too long. :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 [quote name='hazelhover']EEK!! Why is it everytime this subject comes up everybody gets so heated? :o [/quote] Its because it is a topic that we all feel strongly about. I am 100% ANT CROP!!! It is cruel, unnecissary and inhumane, just as I would speak out against someone beating thier dog I WILL SPEAK OUT AGAINST THIS!!! And nothing will chance my mind!!! Do you think its illegal in this country for no reason? Of course not, its illegal because it is CRUEL!!! Tail docking is done before the dog can even feel it, there is nothing cruel about that, still, if someone approched me before I bred Lily asking for a 'pet' with a tail, I would let them choose one and leave it un docked. IF DOCKING WERE DONE AT THREE MONTHS I WOULD HAVE THE SAME OPPINION FOR IT AS I DO WITH CROPPING!!! I am sorry if anyone disagrees with me, but I honestly can't see how someone can say they love thier dog and still take it in to have its ears chopped off!!! How long do the ears have to be taped for? Do you think that it is comfortable for the dog? Grrr, I think it should be banned everywhere, it seems like Australia is the only country with any sence!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: Sorry, but as I said before, I DO feel very strongly about this matter, as I do about dog abuse in general! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoRedNosePit Posted August 16, 2002 Author Share Posted August 16, 2002 Hey everyone I didn't want this topic to become heated and it seems that it will never stop. Please, just understand some people believe in it and some people dont. That is LIFE........if you have a problem with it you cant do anything..... :roll: Just for everyones sake, just agree and shake your head and say ok! Please calm down..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooshie Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 I think its sick that some (apparently money hungry) breeders are capitalizing on breed faults and selling them as supposedly exotic variations of the breed. The same thing has happened with white boxers. some unethical BYB's and Puppymillers try to pass them off as RARE ...and then elevate the price because the dog is so "valuable" :roll: In reality, almost 30 % of Boxers are born white, so they aren't unusual at all. Good breeders sell them as pets (with a spay/neuter contract).Fortunately ,white Boxers don't seem to have the health deficiency's that white Dobes do (white Boxers generally aren't "Albino"). However they ARE a little more sensitive to the sun,and there is speculation that a higher percentage of them are hearing impaired.Bottom line is they should NOT be used for breeding,as they are not accepted under the breed standard,so it does nothing for the betterment of the breed. I'm with Sash...the ones that are born inadvertently should be loved and cared for,but the bloodline should not be furthered just to make a buck :x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 Sasha- I didnt mean to single you out or attack you in anyway. I only meant to say that all dogs have problems/defects within the breed. I didnt say that I would recomend getting a white dobie to be used in breeding, but I presonally would not be apposed(sp?) to getting one. That make sense? :roll: :roll: What research does anyone have on white dobies? I have also read that people sell white GSD. Has anyone read anything on them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 17, 2002 Share Posted August 17, 2002 well last time I said this I got slammed but please people pay attention its Cropped ears and Docked tails if one wishes to know about docking check out [url]www.cdb.org[/url] for real information on the procedure as for cropping - I prefer a cropped ear on the breeds that have that done - however as no competent person exists in my area to do it anymore I don't have it done on my pups and IMO any good breeder has the ears done and healed before pups are placed of course docking is done at 2 days before the nerves are knit and long before any prospective owner is chosen for the pup (other than the breeder that is) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 As Smooshie has stated, cropping, especially, and docking are flammable topics on most any board and especially so on breed boards where cropping and docking is done on their breeds. I leave it alone because I've seen it break great friendships that were made on those boards and have seen the boards lose people who are invaluable sources of info and help. I have the same breeds as Smooshie, and ironically I have a cropped dog and an uncropped dog and love them both. I do know that Austrailia, New Zealand, and England do not allow cropping, and I think, but am not sure that Germany no longer allows it. I do have an open mind on the topic, but I know that there are very few vets who can even do a good crop and very few who will do cropping. I was confused by Beagles post on the white dobes and that she would like to get a dog from these unethical people who are nothing more than BYB's. When you want a certain breed, you research that breed, breed standards, etc. and I didn't understand why anyone who did all that work would want a dog from there. As Smooshie said, there is a big difference between a white boxer and a white dobe. From what I've read on the white dobes, there's a lot more the medical problems involved with them - there's serious neurological and temperment problems and anyone who perpetuates breeding them are in it for the money and present them as normal in every aspect. I love the Doberman breed, and unethical breeders in any breed wreak havoc. That's my 2 cents worth. Nothing is meant to flame anyone, but I was confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooshie Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 Speaking of German Boxer standards.....I was just recently on an Agility site that had pics of German bred Boxers competing ....I noticed that not one of them was docked...they all had full tails!...I wonder if this is becoming the standard there,or if it has always been that way??? I wonder if its acceptable in conformation shows too, or just in obedience/agility Boxers? Its interesting...they look like a totally different breed with a TAIL :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 [quote name='Smooshie']Speaking of German Boxer standards.....I was just recently on an Agility site that had pics of German bred Boxers competing ....I noticed that not one of them was docked...they all had full tails!...I wonder if this is becoming the standard there,or if it has always been that way??? I wonder if its acceptable in conformation shows too, or just in obedience/agility Boxers? Its interesting...they look like a totally different breed with a TAIL :D[/quote] Lyn, I would love to visit that site and see agility photos, do you still have the link info and would you be willing to share? thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooshie Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 [quote name='Carolk9s'][quote name='Smooshie']Speaking of German Boxer standards.....I was just recently on an Agility site that had pics of German bred Boxers competing ....I noticed that not one of them was docked...they all had full tails!...I wonder if this is becoming the standard there,or if it has always been that way??? I wonder if its acceptable in conformation shows too, or just in obedience/agility Boxers? Its interesting...they look like a totally different breed with a TAIL :D[/quote] Lyn, I would love to visit that site and see agility photos, do you still have the link info and would you be willing to share? thanks![/quote] Sure Carol :) I can't seem to locate the article on German agility(it was a link from another site ,and I can't remember which one) but THIS is a great site for agility info: [url]http://www.agilityboxer.com/[/url] It has a pretty large photo gallery and a whole page of agility links....oh and there's a pic of one of those "Boxers with tails" on the front page too :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Thanks Lyn for posting that boxer agility site, it was awesome! I like how the site was laid out with links to boxers on specific obstacles. You know, Melli with the full tail, it was interesting to see how she held that tail on the downside of the A-Frame and on the teeter. Of course dogs whose tails are docked as pups have been used to its lack so its not an issue. Still interesting to see how she used it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooshie Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Yes it is interesting to note the difference between how the docked boxers hold their "stubs" as opposed how Melli takes advantage of that (very long) tail! If you noticed on the downside of the A frame, all the docked boxers position their tails straight UP, while Melli holds hers DOWN for balance. You're right though...Boxers are docked at such a young age that they probably don't miss the functionality of having a tail...it certainly reinforces the issue of why no one should EVER dock an ADULT dog though.That tail isn't just for looks :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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