Aroura Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 I know I have posted quite a few posts praising check chains as they are definatly a great way to train many dogs, but I have decided to train Lily using motivational methods, praise and treats etc as different dogs respond best to different types of training, and Lily is too easily intimidated by loud voices and angry gestures. I was just wondering if Boxers could wear head halters? I've always thought they probably cant, so I don't want to spend money on one if it will just slip off her nose. Has anyone had any experiences with Boxers and head halters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 Hi I saw a white boxer being worked in a 'halti' (headcollar type thing) in my Dog magazine here in the UK and there didn't seem to be any problem with it, seemed to stay on okay.. I realise this isn't to my personal experience but I thought it might be useful :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoRedNosePit Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 I think it would...as long as it wrapped around there head....those are a really good idea...i think I might go buy one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 [quote name='Aroura']I know I have posted quite a few posts praising check chains as they are definatly a great way to train many dogs, but I have decided to train Lily using motivational methods, praise and treats etc as different dogs respond best to different types of training, and Lily is too easily intimidated by loud voices and angry gestures. I was just wondering if Boxers could wear head halters? I've always thought they probably cant, so I don't want to spend money on one if it will just slip off her nose. Has anyone had any experiences with Boxers and head halters?[/quote] I would not buy one until it is proven you need one - if you plan to praise and motivational train this dog all you need is a flat collar! :D Find a class to help you switch methods and learn the new techniques. There is a good book on Crossover Training to help people learning the new stuff after being used to the old. Hunt around on Dogwise.com for it. Don't look for tools look for methods :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 [quote name='Aroura']I know I have posted quite a few posts praising check chains as they are definatly a great way to train many dogs, but I have decided to train Lily using motivational methods, praise and treats etc as different dogs respond best to different types of training, and Lily is too easily intimidated by loud voices and angry gestures. I was just wondering if Boxers could wear head halters? I've always thought they probably cant, so I don't want to spend money on one if it will just slip off her nose. Has anyone had any experiences with Boxers and head halters?[/quote] PS You may find if you do end up needing to use one that one brand or the other may fit more properly on your dog's head shape my personal preference is the gentle leader but the halti might work better for face fit. I would NOT use one at all if a proper fit were not possible. I really do think for now you should not buy one but instead work on the motivation and praise side - lots more fun :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted July 9, 2002 Author Share Posted July 9, 2002 [quote name='Anonymous']I would not buy one until it is proven you need one - if you plan to praise and motivational train this dog all you need is a flat collar! :D Find a class to help you switch methods and learn the new techniques. There is a good book on Crossover Training to help people learning the new stuff after being used to the old. Hunt around on Dogwise.com for it. Don't look for tools look for methods :D[/quote] Yes, I will try with the flat collar first, I'm not sure how she'll react to a halti. She's very stubborn though, and not as food or pat orientated as I would like, so she might not respond so well to just a flat collar and need a little help staying focused. We'll see how she goes :D The classes I am taking her to teach both methods of training, and provide a booklet with absolutly everything in it, from socialization to how to chose which method of teaching is best for your particular dog. They also provide tea and coffee before and after lessons for a time to discuss anything that may be hassling you. It is held in an oval out of town, next to an off lead dog park with a swimming creek. I'm so glad to be taking Lily here, as the guy I took Tessa to was an ex military dog trainer and beleived only in compulsive methods of training, which would only have made Lily a timid dog. All the Boxer breeders and owners alike I have spoken to have said that the number one rule of owning a Boxer is not to train the Boxer out of them!!! Which is exactly what compulsive training would be likely to do. I'm so glad I found this dog group, Tessa also has agility classes right afterwards, so we can make a day of it every Sunday :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 [quote name='Aroura'][quote name='Anonymous']I would not buy one until it is proven you need one - if you plan to praise and motivational train this dog all you need is a flat collar! :D Find a class to help you switch methods and learn the new techniques. There is a good book on Crossover Training to help people learning the new stuff after being used to the old. Hunt around on Dogwise.com for it. Don't look for tools look for methods :D[/quote] Yes, I will try with the flat collar first, I'm not sure how she'll react to a halti. She's very stubborn though, and not as food or pat orientated as I would like, so she might not respond so well to just a flat collar and need a little help staying focused. We'll see how she goes :D The classes I am taking her to teach both methods of training, and provide a booklet with absolutly everything in it, from socialization to how to chose which method of teaching is best for your particular dog. They also provide tea and coffee before and after lessons for a time to discuss anything that may be hassling you. It is held in an oval out of town, next to an off lead dog park with a swimming creek. I'm so glad to be taking Lily here, as the guy I took Tessa to was an ex military dog trainer and beleived only in compulsive methods of training, which would only have made Lily a timid dog. All the Boxer breeders and owners alike I have spoken to have said that the number one rule of owning a Boxer is not to train the Boxer out of them!!! Which is exactly what compulsive training would be likely to do. I'm so glad I found this dog group, Tessa also has agility classes right afterwards, so we can make a day of it every Sunday :D[/quote] I think you will have fun with it :-) and if food and praise don't work as the best ever rewards how about play? a special toy she only gets to hold or play tug with when she performs correctly might suit her temperament better perhaps? John Rogerson says - control the games and control the dog :-) I know many a terrier works hard for a moment with his squeaky rat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 I used the HALTI with one of my dogs and it worked for the first few days. Then he realized that if he pulled in the opposite direction from me that he could slip out of it. Give it a try, but be careful. My dog got loose twice and then I stopped using it. We've had much better luck and success with the pinch collar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 [quote name='pitbullluva']I used the HALTI with one of my dogs and it worked for the first few days. Then he realized that if he pulled in the opposite direction from me that he could slip out of it. Give it a try, but be careful. My dog got loose twice and then I stopped using it. We've had much better luck and success with the pinch collar.[/quote] Too bad nobody showed you how to use it safely and correctly. Pinch collars are simply pain training tools and in public they make you look cruel or that you think you have a dangerous dog - not quite the image that is safe for a pitbull in Boston these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Well Guest...it's really not that difficult to figure out how to use a Halti. After all..it does come with directions. Secondly...pinch collars are not painful and they do not imply that an owner is cruel. Not once have my dogs ever yelped in pain due to the pinch. And a pinch collar would not imply that I have a dangerous dog either. Why would you judge a dog based on the collar that's it's wearing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 [quote name='pitbullluva']Well Guest...it's really not that difficult to figure out how to use a Halti. After all..it does come with directions. Secondly...pinch collars are not painful and they do not imply that an owner is cruel. Not once have my dogs ever yelped in pain due to the pinch. And a pinch collar would not imply that I have a dangerous dog either. Why would you judge a dog based on the collar that's it's wearing?[/quote] Pinch collars only work because they cause pain - if you only wanted a 'cue' for your dog you would use a martingale collar instead. Works the same but no blunt spikes to hurt the dog with. I didn't say it implied that to me I said it 'looks that way to others' to me seeing you use a pinch collar would make me think you don't know much about training a dog <shrug> People judge pitbulls quite radically for how they look, the equipment being used to control them etc and other breeds too for that matter. If you have not figured that out yet you just have not been very observent of people around dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 you're right K. Everyone has there methods of training. If Guest wants to think that it's cruel, that's fine by me. I know my dogs are in no pain and that the pinch collar works for me. Enough said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 [quote name='pitbullluva']you're right K. Everyone has there methods of training. If Guest wants to think that it's cruel, that's fine by me. I know my dogs are in no pain and that the pinch collar works for me. Enough said![/quote] If you want to use pain to control your dog that is certainly a legal way to do it. No one says pain doesn't work just that its not the best or only method. There are tons of other methods available to you right in your home town area from tons of trainers who know how to train without inflicting pain on the dog to manage it. As for understanding how to use a Halti - if you had been with an instructor who knew how to use one your dog would never have had the opportunity to break free of it because there is a way easily shown to you that keeps the dog from getting it off and getting loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted July 10, 2002 Author Share Posted July 10, 2002 [quote name='Anonymous']No one says pain doesn't work just that its not the best or only method. There are tons of other methods available to you right in your home town area from tons of trainers who know how to train without inflicting pain on the dog to manage it.[/quote] One rule in training, once you've chosen your method of training, don't change it!!! All it does is confuse the dog and had even lead to cases of dog schizzophrenia. If you chose compulsive training, eg use of pinch collar, check chain etc, stick with it, on the other hand, if you chose motivational training you shouldn't switch to compulsive training, all you do is confuse the dog. Tessa has been trained with a check chain, she is a perfectly well behaved dog as that method of training was best suited to her personality, as it would be for most Pit Bulls etc. Our Poodle x, Puddles, and my boxer, Lily, both have personalitys that thrive under the use of motivational training. Neither way of training is "better", it just depends on the particular dog being trained, and the person training it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avaloniaboerboele Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Ireally dont like guests!!! :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avaloniaboerboele Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 DITTO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted July 12, 2002 Author Share Posted July 12, 2002 And I will 3rd the ditto :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avaloniaboerboele Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 And i will ditto my ditto hundredfold!!! 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 I will Ditto that also. I have read that the halti's are the worest things to use for training. They put most of the pressure on the base of the neck which in turn can cause injury. Imagine a pole standing. Give it a little wiggle(check) and the top(head) would sway much more than the base(neck). If the pole were to break, it would break at the base(neck). Now i know nobody would want to hurt theyr dog but, there are things that are out of our control. Like a squrril go by, another dog comes into sight, or just wanting to go to the brushes for a smell. You just never know when he/she will want to take off running. Oh by the way, for the people that will say there dog will not take off for something. [b]Why do you need a halter in the First place?[/b] I hope that clears up on my stance on Halters. Personally, i use a nylon collar on Onyx and checks to let him know what is not appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 [quote name='Aroura'][quote name='Anonymous']No one says pain doesn't work just that its not the best or only method. There are tons of other methods available to you right in your home town area from tons of trainers who know how to train without inflicting pain on the dog to manage it.[/quote] One rule in training, once you've chosen your method of training, don't change it!!! All it does is confuse the dog and had even lead to cases of dog schizzophrenia. If you chose compulsive training, eg use of pinch collar, check chain etc, stick with it, on the other hand, if you chose motivational training you shouldn't switch to compulsive training, all you do is confuse the dog. Tessa has been trained with a check chain, she is a perfectly well behaved dog as that method of training was best suited to her personality, as it would be for most Pit Bulls etc. Our Poodle x, Puddles, and my boxer, Lily, both have personalitys that thrive under the use of motivational training. Neither way of training is "better", it just depends on the particular dog being trained, and the person training it.[/quote] Correct, so why are you trying to change lily's lead training method then? a halti is the easy way out. why confuse her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 [color=blue][/color][size=7][/size][b][u] I am not a horrid guest i am nice. But some are really yuk So almost DITTO[/u][/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 ok i will be ditto. hi everyone i am a nice guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roo Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 Welcome Ditto Roo :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 [quote name='Underdog']I will Ditto that also. I have read that the halti's are the worest things to use for training. They put most of the pressure on the base of the neck which in turn can cause injury. Imagine a pole standing. Give it a little wiggle(check) and the top(head) would sway much more than the base(neck). If the pole were to break, it would break at the base(neck). Now i know nobody would want to hurt theyr dog but, there are things that are out of our control. Like a squrril go by, another dog comes into sight, or just wanting to go to the brushes for a smell. You just never know when he/she will want to take off running. Oh by the way, for the people that will say there dog will not take off for something. [b]Why do you need a halter in the First place?[/b] I hope that clears up on my stance on Halters. Personally, i use a nylon collar on Onyx and checks to let him know what is not appropriate.[/quote] Choke collars definitely have been proved to cause neck problems in dogs trained with them. Of the head halters I personally recomment the Gentle Leader over the Halti as the Halti is easier (unless you know how to double link it) for a dog to get loose from. Pressure is not put on the base of the skull the comtrol comes from the muzzle being turned. A properly leash trained dog does not 'take off running' when on lead. A head halter is not a tool to simply control a dog its a training aid - you have to do the training part too. IMO a head halter is something used by people who have not been able to get very far in training their dog as yet (rescue dog or other untrained dog) or by people who have no hope due to size differences or disability etc of controlling their dog long enough to get the training done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 This guy never quits hu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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