Guest Anonymous Posted June 25, 2002 Share Posted June 25, 2002 I have a problem. My puppy (Bichon) keeps on biting me and other members of my family. He constantly bites my shoes and legs, and when he grabs hold of a shoe or shoe lace he won't let go!! I've tried everything from ignoring him when he does it, walking away... etc. but nothing works!!! Please help Amy [email][email protected][/email] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 25, 2002 Share Posted June 25, 2002 I have the same problem with my shihtzu. a book i have says you can spray them with a squirt gun. im not sure if it works yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 25, 2002 Share Posted June 25, 2002 Ug! I have an aussie and they are natorious for this! We also used "NO BITE!!!" and the squirt bottle, and even the occasional tap on the nose. I am happy to say for the most part she has stopped. She does however seem to have a really hard time resisting my 3 year old boy who loves to run and scream at the same time (I think he does this just to taunt her!) but now instead of going for skin, which gets a response she does NOT like, she grabs his shirt and yanks him to a stop. Once he's stopped she leaves him alone to begine that game again! The major problem we are working on right now is biting wheels on toy trucks as they are being pushed about the yard, she's getting better, but when no adult is watching (and she checks!) she grabs hold and growls! It's kinds funny caus she usually ends up with her nose in the dirt or a paw under the truck... sigh :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronxie Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 This may sound silly but when my pup nips or bites i start crying like a dog. It bugs her out and she gets all curious but now the biting isn't that often. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 [quote name='Bronxie']This may sound silly but when my pup nips or bites i start crying like a dog. It bugs her out and she gets all curious but now the biting isn't that often. :o[/quote] Thats a good idea! I never thought of that. I'll be sure and try it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peng1zrule Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 when you ignore the behavior, how do you ignore it? do you keep on with your business? if so, she may be hurrying you and feel that her biting was rewarded. to discourage this, I shut down--I turn my back, tilt my face up, and cross my arms. I put my feet together and ignore the nipping. (this is sometimes difficult and painful) but when the dog begins to get frustrated, I ask for a sit or a trick and then reward the dog with what it wanted. the dog learns to sit or to perform when she wants something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 I tried the squirt bottle thing and Jac just wants to drink from it!!! :D :P "No bite" worked for me the best!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 if all else fails grab her lower or upper jaw and hald it for 15 or more seconds. trhis sounds like a cruel teckneck but its not. it is used by my dogs professional trainer and i have used on my dogs. remember only use it when all else fails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 [quote name='puppies411']if all else fails grab her lower or upper jaw and hald it for 15 or more seconds. trhis sounds like a cruel teckneck but its not. it is used by my dogs professional trainer and i have used on my dogs. remember only use it when all else fails.[/quote] It is a cruel technique and does not teach the dog anything except that your hands can hurt it. Your trainer is not a 'professional dog trainer' he or she is person who takes money for hurting your dog. :cry: There ways to train a pup to be bite inhibited that do not involve hurting the pup. The simplest one is to use the 'yipe' method of making a hurt sound like the pup in the litter does when its siblings bite too hard and ignoring the pup for a few moments before resuming play. Yelling NO BITE harshly at the pup will work with a few dogs with others it will make them bite harder. It does not teach the pup to control its bite and be gentle. Pups trained harshly often use force themselves when they get older and then everyone wonders why the dog has bitten someone so badly when they 'trained it not to bite' when it was young. They missed the training they were really doing which was teaching the pup that pain works to control situations and get your own way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 One thing that everyone should remember is that every dog has a different personality, they learn at different stages. Some learn quicker, some are slower to learn. One method of training, for one dog, will not necessarily work on another dog. And I am using "dog" generically meaning puppy, also. Some dogs will resond greatly to the "time out" method of punishment. This method is based on the social gregariousness of the dog and his need to be with his pack. At the instant of the bit or other unpleasant behaviour, you go into the next room and leave him totally alone for a few minutes. Don't stand there and ignore the biting --- leave the room. The object is not retribution but surprise. It's like the mother walking away from the pup when he wants to nurse. It is very effective IF used properly. This method of training may not work on some dogs. Puppies use biting as a form of play, socialization, exploration, establishing dominance, testing the waters as to how far they can go, etc... The YIPE is very effective. Yelling "NO BITE" does nothing but confuse some dogs. Because they have no idea what you are talking about. When pups play, if they bite too hard their sibling lets out a shrill yelp --- play stops momentarily. Then is resumes with softer bites. This works the same way with human. The pups wants to mouth you like a sibling. Let him know how hard he can bite by the yelp/yipe. Eventually, the pup will come to understand only soft bites are tolerated. Don't stop there, continue until he understands that biting will not be tolerated at all (if this is something you want). Personally, I would never, ever, grab the muzzle, spank, thump or other methods where the pup could associate that hands are something to be afraid of. Every breed, every dog is different. What works on one will not work on another. Be flexible in your training and teaching. By all means, read some behaviour based books because they are excellent in explaining why the dog acts a certain way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Guest No bite worked with mine but I also incorporated time out per say. When mine get to playing to rough I would leave or quit playing. But when they were pups I used no bite and they quit biting and nipping. No rough harsh treatment with it. No hollaring either just a deep toned no bite. Like you said though different breeds respond in different ways to different things. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 These are the silliest recommendations I have ever heard to train a dog to stop biting. The original post talked about a puppy biting...shoelaces..shoes...etc. Don't you think someone should ask how old is this puppy???? Is this a case of a young puppy teething and playing incorrectly or is this a case of an older, bigger puppy really biting???? It makes a huge difference. Using a squirt bottle and ignoring is laughable. You are not going to train a dog to stop biting that way and that can be a very dangerous approach. When your dog is in public trying to bite someone are you going to run for your squirt bottle while your dog is biting the person...or or you just gonna ignore him. And puppies...you are into GSDs....you are gonna grap their mouth to stop them....how many GSD have you been around??? How many fingers are you missing??? Sashagirl is the only one on the right track...however instead of "no bite" it really is just "no"....universal command...whatever you are doing...stop, halt. The addition of the word "bite" means you are going to have to have commands for each and every action you want the dog to stop. With just "no", he learns that command in one action and it will apply with others. I would add to what sashagirl is doing the use of a choke collar and lead to start...you can grap choke collar alone and yank...to get point across. And hazelhover...your description of your dog going after your 3 year old is serious and should be dealt with immediately. Even when a dog is not trying to attack someone and in his mind just playing....his mouth graps your son and the dog is going one way and the kid another....you could have 50 stitches in a second and the dog wouldn't even realize he was hurting your son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 nikkie, instead of putting everyone else's ideas down tell us some of your ideas.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Candybug...I don't put everybody's ideas down...I have ignored a lot posts that I shake my head at when I read them...but there are some topics and posts that I feel I have to respond to in order to correct dangerously inaccurate or irresponsible statements. Biting can be a very serious issue and must be dealt with properly. Personally, it sounded to me like this pup was young and was more teething than biting which no one bothered to differentiate between...but what if this dog was really biting...or someone else reads this thread that does have a dog with a biting problem...and what if they followed these silly recommendations and their dog ended up ripping off some kid's face. How would you feel then Candybug...have you ever seen a kid's face ripped off from a dog bite???? Unfortunately, many of these people start a post without giving all the proper info you would really need to give any responsible advice...and I know we all like to give our 2 cents worth...but there are certain topics that we really should bite our tongues and ask questions instead of being so quick on the draw to offer advice. And not everyone is qualified to give advice on every topic. I have trained dogs for years for attack training and behavior modification to stop a dog from biting...what are your qualifications? I don't offer advice on showing dogs...cuz that's not my area of expertise. There are people here with experience and knowledge in that area. And I did state that Sashagirl was right in her approach and added what else I would recommend. A lot of people are very quick on this forum to criticize owners for not being responsible and not training their dogs...well those recommendations are not proper training. When it comes to a topic such as biting or blindly handing out pain killers to a dog...I am going to be blunt...cuz someone can be seriously injured or killed. If you are going to discuss your dog wearing a cat collar with a bell...I'm not going to comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 I think she was asking you what you would do about it. And you didn't say that in your answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 [quote name='nicki']Candybug...I don't put everybody's ideas down...I have ignored a lot posts that I shake my head at when I read them...but there are some topics and posts that I feel I have to respond to in order to correct dangerously inaccurate or irresponsible statements. Biting can be a very serious issue and must be dealt with properly. [b] I think the key words in the post were 'puppy' and 'biting' that were the clues to what was going on. Dog trainers need to be able interpret what owners say to determine what is really happening based on a solid knowledge of dog behavior.[/b] Personally, it sounded to me like this pup was young and was more teething than biting which no one bothered to differentiate between...but what if this dog was really biting...or someone else reads this thread that does have a dog with a biting problem...and what if they followed these silly recommendations and their dog ended up ripping off some kid's face. How would you feel then Candybug...have you ever seen a kid's face ripped off from a dog bite???? [b]This kind of early mouth use is not teething its normal puppy learning behavior which needs to be properly directed to teach the pup that using teeth on humans is totally inappropriate and will not get them anything that they want. While it is harder for some breeds than others to learn to be soft mouthed teaching it at this early puppy stage is the best time.[/b] Unfortunately, many of these people start a post without giving all the proper info you would really need to give any responsible advice...and I know we all like to give our 2 cents worth...but there are certain topics that we really should bite our tongues and ask questions instead of being so quick on the draw to offer advice. And not everyone is qualified to give advice on every topic. [b]So far your advice seems totally incorrect.[/b] I have trained dogs for years for attack training and behavior modification to stop a dog from biting...what are your qualifications? I don't offer advice on showing dogs...cuz that's not my area of expertise. There are people here with experience and knowledge in that area. [b]Ah that explains it you are one of those pain trainers with years of experience in hurting dogs and you also like a dog that is not bite inhibited to work in attack training - real trainers IMO don't train attack dogs they do schutzhund or ringsport. As for behavior modification there is all kinds of it some kind and some not so kind and some downright cruel. Most top trainers now are throwing out the pain techniques as the positive ones work so much better. Pups respond quite well to 'shunning' - they are social critters and want to be a part of the pack not left out of the fun.[/b] And I did state that Sashagirl was right in her approach and added what else I would recommend. A lot of people are very quick on this forum to criticize owners for not being responsible and not training their dogs...well those recommendations are not proper training. [b]A lot of people have no clue what the new techniques are for training dogs and pups too and continue to share 'old' ideas on handling animals. The fact that the old ideas don't bite inhibit a pup seems to go right over their heads.[/b] When it comes to a topic such as biting or blindly handing out pain killers to a dog...I am going to be blunt...cuz someone can be seriously injured or killed. If you are going to discuss your dog wearing a cat collar with a bell...I'm not going to comment. [b]Maybe you should do some more learning before deciding that pups nipping is exactly the same as non bite inhibited adult dogs biting aggressively. The goal with pups is to teach them soft bites and no biting of humans or clothing as a part of their learning social skills. Too bad you don't care about issues like belled collars - the bell catching on something (like crate wire) could kill a pup.[/b] [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 [quote name='sashagirl'][b]Nicki Wrote:[/b] [quote]The addition of the word "bite" means you are going to have to have commands for each and every action you want the dog to stop. With just "no", he learns that command in one action and it will apply with others. [/quote] I hadn't thought of that Nicki, but that does make a lot of sense. Thanks :wink:[/quote] Only if you believe dogs understand English :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 [quote name='K']My dogs are Bi-Lingual!!!! :D[/quote] I find speaking Dog more fun. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Your lack of personal training experience is self evident as you attempt to allege what trainers do and think and is equally matched by your deficient reading comprehension. [quote]I think the key words in the post were 'puppy' and 'biting' that were the clues to what was going on. Dog trainers need to be able interpret what owners say to determine what is really happening based on a solid knowledge of dog behavior. [/quote] These words are loosely used by owners and as I stated in my original post...questions should have been asked to ascertain the age of the dog and the exact nature of the behavior. Trainers don't interpret what owners mean...they ask questions to ascertain what is really happening. Even a bad trainer would ask the age of the dog and questions to determine what behavior the owner is referring to as "biting". Your disagreement with this indicates not only that you are not and have not been a trainer, but you lack common sense. [quote]real trainers IMO don't train attack dogs they do schutzhund or ringsport. As for behavior modification there is all kinds of it some kind and some not so kind and some downright cruel. Most top trainers now are throwing out the pain techniques as the positive ones work so much better. Pups respond quite well to 'shunning' - they are social critters and want to be a part of the pack not left out of the fun. [/quote] This is an affirmation again that you are not a trainer. Real trainers train for a broad spectum not just what you think dogs should be trained for. And again, depending on the facts of the situation which is why a trainer asks questions, the technique utilized varies. Your blanket statement that most top trainers are throwing out the pain techniques...shows once again you don't know what you are talking about. Again you use broad generalizations. Are you promoting positive reenforcement for all situations. As far as your "shunning", I'm always willing to learn something new. I can line up some 9 month old pups, GSDs and Dobermans, and you can demonstrate how shunning is going to train these pups not to bite. Have you even been face to face in that situation or have you only read about it or imagined it. You are a wantabe...you have no personal experience or knowledge.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 sballpitcher025 I stated that I would have to ask questions regarding the puppy in the original post. Is this a 16 week pup or a 9 month old pup....and to ascertain what exactly this "biting" behavior is that the person was referring to. But in Sashagirl's situation, I did comment on that...cuz I knew that it was an adult pit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 when do puppies teeth? Mine is 8 weeks old and have the same biting and jumping up on me problem. I try to keep walking and saying NO in a low voice but this seems to just get him more excited. I've only had him a few days so i'm going to work with him a lot this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 sashagirl...I reread the posts...and you did state it was your puppy..and I did understand that when I replied...cuz if it was an adult...I would have suggesting stronger stops. So I misspoke in my last post... I do agree with your approach with your pup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 I would have suggested stronger steps...correcting typos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 [quote name='"nicki"']snip poor attempt at insults quote] Well you are poor to limited at insults and obviously bad at dog training and completely unknowlegeable about pups and training methods that are not archaic. I've bite inhibited adolescent rescued dogs in the 165-185 pound range but as most trainers know its lots easier doing it with baby pups so that when they get to be teens they already know to control their mouths. Most good dog trainers comprehend the normal training tricks used in puppy kindergartens everywhere to start pups off on the right track. There is plenty of widely available information on training pups to get off to the right start - on the net and off of it. If you really are into learning more you would have been out there reading, attending seminars, watching the video tapes and learning how to shape behaviors instead of how to hurt dogs. People who train 'attack' dogs are among the lowest scum of trainers IME. Taking a dog and making it believe its ok to bite people for no particular reason other than to maintain the owner's shaky masculine image is not a portion of the dog training world many people care to be associated with. Schutzhund, Ringsport, and protection training for guard dog work are different areas than the one you claim for your own. Indeed its people like you who help create the dogs that are fueling the anti dog sentiment and fears around the world. Heavy handed training methods just are not needed to train pups or dogs as there are other better methods to get dogs to do what you want consistently and accurately. Its more fun for owners and dogs and more successful as a result. Oh and not only does shunning and yiping work fine to train bite inhibition in pups, I sincerely hope that you are aware that using physical force on a dog can trigger a much greater comeback from the dog with way more force used by it instead of diminishing the behavior depending on the particular dog you try the force methods on. I happen to like dogs that are bigger than the breeds you claim to train and also tougher in temperament. I don't want to fight with my dogs I want to train them - and what I do works great on big and small dogs of any type of temperament. How many dogs do you 'break' and how many do you 'wash out' - my record on those two issues is zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 [quote name='abusser']when do puppies teeth? Mine is 8 weeks old and have the same biting and jumping up on me problem. I try to keep walking and saying NO in a low voice but this seems to just get him more excited. I've only had him a few days so i'm going to work with him a lot this weekend.[/quote] Biting and jumping up is the normal state of events at this age in pups :D Learning how to behave appropriately is part of their growing up. You need to bite inhibit the pup and teach it that it gets attention by sitting not by leaping up. As I recall your pup will be big so cure the jumping now. Simple enough to do all you need to do is turn away with arms folded when the pup jumps up and praise and pet it when it sits trying to figure out what you are doing :-) Pups like to do what works. If jumping up works to get your attention they will do that - if it doesn't work they will try things until they discover what works to get it. Key thing is to remember (hard part for us humans) not to give attention for the 'bad' behavior and to give lavish attention for the 'good' behavior. [url]http://www.lbah.com/%20Dog%20Behavior%20Pages/pupleadership.htm[/url] I also highly recommend the video Sirius Puppy Training by Ian Dunbar and this link is a super one on bite inhibition! [url]http://www.clickersolutions.com/clickersolutions/articles/biteinhibit.htm[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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