Cropping Ears, Cutting off Tails WHY?

[GizmoRedNosePit]

I would like to hear a logical reason to cropping ears and cutting off their tails.......I understand certain breeds have ears cropped and tails cut but yet if we had a tail would you want it cut off? If we had ears like a canines would you want to crop it?? I tottally agree with it with many breeds, but I still ask why!! :lol: I have to ask!

[Guest Anonymous]

Well because we live in America and it is our own choice I guess. I love the croped and docked look!! :D

[Guest Anonymous]

It's all for fashion... Nothing more...

[Guest Anonymous]

The cropped ears are mostly for looks unless they are working dogs, ie. security. The tail docking is thing is done so as they dont get caught in doors and as for the dobermans so as they dont clear out the coffee table. My Dobies tail(docked) would whip people just by wanting to play.

And i noticed that the person who posted this subject has a picture of a pit with cropped ears. I love the look of certain breeds with ears and tail done.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='sashagirl']Just thought that I would let you know the reason that gizmo has a pic of a pit bull with cropped ears by her name.

They got the pic from the gallery on this site and that is the only pic of a pit bull. :D Hope that clears it up[/quote]

I know sasha. I saw you had it also a few days ago.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='GizmoRedNosePit']I would like to hear a logical reason to cropping ears and cutting off their tails.......I understand certain breeds have ears cropped and tails cut but yet if we had a tail would you want it cut off? If we had ears like a canines would you want to crop it?? I tottally agree with it with many breeds, but I still ask why!! :lol: I have to ask![/quote]
Ah you have to ask but you don't really want an answer do you?
Asking if people would do it is silly considering what people currently do and always have done to 'decorate' their bodies for no reason other than culture.
Dogs were docked for varying reasons everything from taxes to saving the dog later pain due to the jobs they did. Ears were cropped to limit injuries in fights with game or with other dogs or even with humans depending on the breed.
Are you aware that the drop ear is not natural in the dog? its totally man made simply for looks and is not in the canines best interest in terms of hearing and health!

[Shannon_C]

[b]My question is, if the reason for docking dogs tails is so they dont get them trapped in doors etc....Why are certain breeds like the Mastiff, Bullmastiff and other giant breeds not cropped ?
I know that its never been done with breeds who dont hunt, only those who used to like Pointers, Dobermanns etc (working in fields), but thats history so why do it now ?
[/b]

[Guest Anonymous]

Pit Bulls don't normally have their tails cropped. If someone does it , it's usually just a personal prefrence( coffee tables) :wink: or a bent tail. This is off subject. My Aunt is looking for a Mastiff. She owned 2 boxer's for 13 yrs or so. The last one recently passed and she is ready for another kid ,lol. I tried to pull up your site. I'm getting a photo shots page. Can you refer me to your correct site or someone that breeds in South Florida?

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Shannon_C'][b]My question is, if the reason for docking dogs tails is so they dont get them trapped in doors etc....Why are certain breeds like the Mastiff, Bullmastiff and other giant breeds not cropped ?
I know that its never been done with breeds who dont hunt, only those who used to like Pointers, Dobermanns etc (working in fields), but thats history so why do it now ?
[/b][/quote]

Shannon_C I think the reason behind Mastiff, Newfs, and other Giant breeds not having docked tails is they figure the owner probably had a sense of humor(a huge love for the breed to begin with) and more willing to but up with cleared coffee tables, drool, leg bruises(from those tails).!!!! :D My Lab can clear a coffee table in 2 swipes!! But I can laugh about it!!

No really I know a Newfie tail is used as a rutter, as is a Labs. Mastiffs tails if I am right would be a point of balance as they were once used for hunting wild game. Correct Shannon?!

Tail docking and ear cropping is cosmetic really and overseas is not done that much. There have been show dogs here in the US that have won titles that have been natural. The tail docking is done usually in working dogs or herding dogs to prevent injury such as cattle stepping on it. I do not think slamming it in a door counts. All dogs would be docked then.

[Shannon_C]

RedHotJen. You have the right site then lol, my site is just photos...I could refer you to other sites though...What kind of Mastiff is your aunt looking for ?....there are various Mastiff breeds you see! Jacsmom, i dont have a clue what other giant breeds were used for, but i do know that Bullmastiffs were bred for catching poachers, when there masters got burgled on there estate, so the dogs would catch and hold down there thieving victims to the ground, without savaging!

[Guest Anonymous]

Yes Mastiffs where used for that purpose but during the Elizabethan Era they hunt wild game such as tigers, and such for entertainment. I thought that was a pretty neat thing seeing as how the are so big. Amazing they can reach such speeds. :D

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Shannon_C'][b]My question is, if the reason for docking dogs tails is so they dont get them trapped in doors etc....Why are certain breeds like the Mastiff, Bullmastiff and other giant breeds not cropped ?
I know that its never been done with breeds who dont hunt, only those who used to like Pointers, Dobermanns etc (working in fields), but thats history so why do it now ?
[/b][/quote]
docking is the shortening of the tail
cropping is the changing of the ears from drop to erect
hunting is not history nor is guard work or rat eradication
no one says you must do either but don't go telling people they cannot choose to dock or crop their breed

[Guest Anonymous]

[/b][/quote]
docking is the shortening of the tail
cropping is the changing of the ears from drop to erect
hunting is not history nor is guard work or rat eradication
no one says you must do either but don't go telling people they cannot choose to dock or crop their breed[/quote]

1. I think we are all aware of what docking and cropping are.
2. Look up the HISTORY of the Mastiff and hunting wild game,protecting masters homes from intruders is in there. How many Mastiff hunt tigers and bears now? None? If so that is history. Look up the HISTORY of the Giant Schnauzer it was used to herd (another dockee).
3. In the previous post no one said DO NOT dock or crop your dog. I have seen . It is cosmetic, it is a choice, if you had a tail would you want it cut off, and getting slammed in a door. But not one person said do not do it.

Read up on the posts guest and the history of the breeds if you must but please do not come and be rude on this forum. :roll:

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Jacsmom'][/b][/quote]
1. I think we are all aware of what docking and cropping are.
2. Look up the HISTORY of the Mastiff and hunting wild game,protecting masters homes from intruders is in there. How many Mastiff hunt tigers and bears now? None? If so that is history. Look up the HISTORY of the Giant Schnauzer it was used to herd (another dockee).
3. In the previous post no one said DO NOT dock or crop your dog. I have seen . It is cosmetic, it is a choice, if you had a tail would you want it cut off, and getting slammed in a door. But not one person said do not do it.
Read up on the posts guest and the history of the breeds if you must but please do not come and be rude on this forum. :roll:[/quote]
Actually if you reread what I quoted you will note the complete confusion of the meaning of the two terms used.
Mastiffs are neither docked nor cropped nor were they traditionally done.
Terriers are still used in go to ground and ratting situations, many breeds including the Giant Schnauzer are still being used as guard and police dogs, and Yes even as cattle herders as are many other breeds, and many more breeds are used in hunting game and birds all around the world - I don't count current use as history.
I do count your inability to be polite as rude though.
There is no need IMO to justify cropping or docking - one either understands the reasons why or one does not. Unfortunately for the world the people who are completely clueless seem to feel its their right or even their duty to inflict their ignorance on the rest of us and then try to make us conform to it.

[Guest Anonymous]

I think the confusion in what you quoted came from someone saying that docking was done to keep tails from getting slammed in doors. Shannon_C said if so why were giant breeds such as the Mastiff not done then? Which if they were done for that reason would be a logical question. If done for that reason not a dog or a cat for that matter would have a tail! LOL
Also with Mastiff I was just saying why Mastiffs were never docked and probably never meant to be. Can you imagine a 150lb Mastiff with no tail!

To me when you take a breed and there are say 700 hundred of them and 10 of them are ACTIVELY herding (Giant Schnauzers) then that is history. I was talking about what they were breed for and built to do. Why would it be under the breeds history if it was not history.

As far as my inability to be polite.. I was polite until the end but I am adult enough to say sorry it just hit me the wrong way. I guess when someone confuses something I figure they know what they are talking about and got mixed up. If not there are ways to say it with out coming off so hateful. I mean no one forced any opinion on anyone! And you are still saying they are trying to conform you, you are on a computer! What do you mean conform! As far the ignorance thing and inflicting it on others I guess I am one of those who can walk away or move on. Also I have been told you can always shed new light on things.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='"Jacsmom"']I think the confusion in what you quoted came from someone saying that docking was done to keep tails from getting slammed in doors. Shannon_C said if so why were giant breeds such as the Mastiff not done then? Which if they were done for that reason would be a logical question. If done for that reason not a dog or a cat for that matter would have a tail! LOL
Also with Mastiff I was just saying why Mastiffs were never docked and probably never meant to be. Can you imagine a 150lb Mastiff with no tail!

To me when you take a breed and there are say 700 hundred of them and 10 of them are ACTIVELY herding (Giant Schnauzers) then that is history. I was talking about what they were breed for and built to do. Why would it be under the breeds history if it was not history.

snipquote]
Actually yes I can imagine Mastiffs with no tails and Danes too as they are commonly taken off when the dogs frequently injure them. Nothing like cleaning up blood spattered walls when a dog with a strong tail and no coat covering it has a case of happy tail and an injured tip.
I clarified the terms being used because people were doing what people always seem to do when they don't know what they are talking about - confusing the two terms and using them as if they meant the same thing.
Apparently you only count what people do in your hometown with dogs and not what people all over the world are doing with them. You don't even have a clue how many Giant Schnauzers there are let alone how many people work them in varying areas. Many Giant Schnauzers work as police dogs and personal protection dogs for a simple example.
Just because you don't do anything meaninful for work with your dogs doesn't mean no one else does!
Knowing what a breed was designed for should tell you what they can be doing as well as what they may well still be doing and probably still are doing here and there around the world.
Tons of people all over hunt with their dogs - just because your social circle doesn't include those folks does not mean they are not there!
You even might want to check on the work your breed does in Africa say before you say they are never used for hunting or protection anymore.

[Guest Anonymous]

snipquote]
Actually yes I can imagine Mastiffs with no tails and Danes too as they are commonly taken off when the dogs frequently injure them. Nothing like cleaning up blood spattered walls when a dog with a strong tail and no coat covering it has a case of happy tail and an injured tip.
I clarified the terms being used because people were doing what people always seem to do when they don't know what they are talking about - confusing the two terms and using them as if they meant the same thing.
Apparently you only count what people do in your hometown with dogs and not what people all over the world are doing with them. You don't even have a clue how many Giant Schnauzers there are let alone how many people work them in varying areas. Many Giant Schnauzers work as police dogs and personal protection dogs for a simple example.
Just because you don't do anything meaninful for work with your dogs doesn't mean no one else does!
Knowing what a breed was designed for should tell you what they can be doing as well as what they may well still be doing and probably still are doing here and there around the world.
Tons of people all over hunt with their dogs - just because your social circle doesn't include those folks does not mean they are not there!
You even might want to check on the work your breed does in Africa say before you say they are never used for hunting or protection anymore.[/quote]

Well aren't we a little on the I know everything rude side. First off I realize
that some dogs have to have their tails removed.
Second I realize there are more than 700 Giant Schnauzers. I was using that to to tell you not ALL Giant Schnauzers are used to herd (as they were original bred for). I am very aware that Giant Schnauzers are used as Police dogs and protection <- as this is natural. And yes some people do use them for herding but not all of them.
Third seeing as how you know SO much about what I do with my dogs and my "social circle". Then you will know my social sircle consist of English Setter and Labrador hunters and trainers (Two other breeds without docked tails but I guess if their tail got hurt a concerned and caring owner would seek a vets advice), A professional tracking trainer and service dog trainer, several reputable breeders, A Labrador training to track, A Giant Schnauzer currently seeking agility titles,(oh but that is right I forgot I do not work with my dogs) :roll: and people who to do have to be rude, hateful and inconsiderate thinking they know everything about someone when all they are doing is sitting behind a computer typing on to a forum in answer to someone with a question! People in my social circle will help someone who maybe confused or need help with something. They will explain and lend a hand not a smart comment.
Just for curiousity just what is MY breed?? But you do not have to answer because you know everything about me already. I consider this topic done.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Jacsmom']
Well aren't we a little on the I know everything rude side. First off I realize
that some dogs have to have their tails removed.
Second I realize there are more than 700 Giant Schnauzers. I was using that to to tell you not ALL Giant Schnauzers are used to herd (as they were original bred for). I am very aware that Giant Schnauzers are used as Police dogs and protection <- as this is natural. And yes some people do use them for herding but not all of them.
Third seeing as how you know SO much about what I do with my dogs and my "social circle". Then you will know my social sircle consist of English Setter and Labrador hunters and trainers (Two other breeds without docked tails but I guess if their tail got hurt a concerned and caring owner would seek a vets advice), A professional tracking trainer and service dog trainer, several reputable breeders, A Labrador training to track, A Giant Schnauzer currently seeking agility titles,(oh but that is right I forgot I do not work with my dogs) :roll: and people who to do have to be rude, hateful and inconsiderate thinking they know everything about someone when all they are doing is sitting behind a computer typing on to a forum in answer to someone with a question! People in my social circle will help someone who maybe confused or need help with something. They will explain and lend a hand not a smart comment.
Just for curiousity just what is MY breed?? But you do not have to answer because you know everything about me already. I consider this topic done.[/quote]

Apparently you really do not know anything about hunting breeds or their development for use in different covers and why docking is done but you do think you should go on and on about it <LOL>
I'm glad you realize that even breeds not normally docked when young lose their tails to injuries.
Most breeders cannot tell you when the pups of their breed might be hunted or run in tail damaging situations or might not when the pups are just 2 days old (the time docking is done). Nor can you decide which pups will be working protection dogs at that point and so on.
Saying you know people who work their dogs doesn't mean you know a thing about the breeds involved or do anything yourself with your dogs.
Saying you know they perform tasks now is certainly different from saying that its all old history and none of the dogs now work at what they were designed to do! Sure is confusing when you change your 'facts' to suit your argument of the moment.
You say you and your friends are helpful - so why all the upset and rudeness when I clarified the terms being used? it was pretty obvious not all the people posting had a clue what the words meant. Don't you believe you were rude in dismissing the information I offered to clarify what was being said?
As for me deciding I know about you - well I respond to the stuff you post and if you act ignorant I will figure that is what you are. So far you haven't climbed out of that ditch yet.

[GizmoRedNosePit]

Well yes I know certain breeds do and dont crop ears and dock tails.... I was just wondering and Tankyou!! for answering!! I also had another question --

Do pitbulls use their tails for balance?? I heard this from somewhere and I dont know if it is true?!?!??! And yes I know there is a pic of a pit with cropped ears....I never said I dis agree.... I actually agree because it is better for hearing and health reasons but I love my puppy ears so they are gonna stay..... but I am having the hardest time with getting my puppy pic on here....I cant figure it out!!!! HELP!! :wink: Thankyou again!!

[Peng1zrule]

I have heard that dogs tails were originally docked to show a working breed in some countries--I'm thinking germany and the like. Doberman and schnauzer's ears were cropped because they were both used for protection from humans and the breeders did not want the ears to be able to be grabbed...maybe the tail too, as a human may try to grab a tail, but dogs don't fight by grabbing tails, so the apbt still has a tail...I have never heard of someone actually docking a tail just because the dog keeps knocking things off the coffee table! I got rid of the coffee table, lol...

[Peng1zrule]

[quote name='GizmoRedNosePit']Well yes I know certain breeds do and dont crop ears and dock tails.... I was just wondering and Tankyou!! for answering!! I also had another question --

Do pitbulls use their tails for balance?? I heard this from somewhere and I dont know if it is true?!?!??! And yes I know there is a pic of a pit with cropped ears....I never said I dis agree.... I actually agree because it is better for hearing and health reasons but I love my puppy ears so they are gonna stay..... but I am having the hardest time with getting my puppy pic on here....I cant figure it out!!!! HELP!! :wink: Thankyou again!![/quote]


Personally, I have never seen a dog use it's tail for balance, but maybe I'm just not looking at it right...I've seen my cat take corners and you can tell without a doubt that the tail is for balance, but I've seen my dog go sliding on linoleum in a U-turn, and what comes into play is her legs and body weight as she manuevers around quite like a speed-skater! (i'll watch her tail next time and be sure for myself) I have never thought that dogs with erect or cropped ears heard better...maybe I was wrong...all but one of my dogs, including my apbt, have drop ears and they all seem to hear about the same (except for the oldest one, but that's because of age, not ears) I have talked to apbt rescuers and breeders who say having the natural ears doesn't make the dog's ears any unhealthier than they would be anyway, I think this idea comes from the fact that cocker spaniels and other spaniel breeds have heavy dropped ears and many have ear infections.

[GizmoRedNosePit]

With the dropped ears thing....I read somewhere that the cropped ear is better for reasons of they are less likely to get ear infections, they hear better and some other reason....I dont really know if that is true but I was just wondering.....

When I got my baby I was told I shouldn't do anything with the tail becuase of balance....I dont think its mainly for balance but I think there is a factor of balance when it comes to their tail..... :roll: I dont know for sure so ohh well!!! LOL

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='GizmoRedNosePit']With the dropped ears thing....I read somewhere that the cropped ear is better for reasons of they are less likely to get ear infections, they hear better and some other reason....I dont really know if that is true but I was just wondering.....

When I got my baby I was told I shouldn't do anything with the tail becuase of balance....I dont think its mainly for balance but I think there is a factor of balance when it comes to their tail..... :roll: I dont know for sure so ohh well!!! LOL[/quote]

Thing is by the time someone is ready to take a 'baby' home :-) its already been decided to dock or not dock - its really done at about 2 days which is pretty early to be deciding who will be doing what with which pup :-)
Cropping is another matter as its normally done at about the same age many people place pups. IMO a responsible breeder does this for the pet buyer (show people may differ on policy wanting their own special person to do the cropping but I feel that is different). I don't think any pup deserves having its after care done by someone just learning but that an experienced person should be in charge of it (apprenticing does come to mind on this) someone who not only knows how to do aftercare but also knows which vets do the best job for their breed etc.
I do think dogs use tails for balance in some cases and rudders in others but dogs that have the tails done so young learn their balance without the tail no problem. After all they don't even start walking until they are 3-4 weeks old long after docking has been done.

[Guest Anonymous]

Israel has outlawed this practice totally. As the practice is so common we hardly even think about it. I can see an argument being made that it is a form of animal cruelty. There is no valid reason for any of it. It's done purely to please man's perception of how he thinks the breed should look. As it stands now, we have the right to amputate whatever body part we want on our dogs. We condone ears and tails being cut off but what about owners who are having their dog's vocal chords cut out so that they can not bark. New Jersey is in the process of outlawing this practice cuz it is so common. But is there really a difference. What other body part will some owner think of next?

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Nicki']Israel has outlawed this practice totally. As the practice is so common we hardly even think about it. I can see an argument being made that it is a form of animal cruelty. There is no valid reason for any of it. It's done purely to please man's perception of how he thinks the breed should look. As it stands now, we have the right to amputate whatever body part we want on our dogs. We condone ears and tails being cut off but what about owners who are having their dog's vocal chords cut out so that they can not bark. New Jersey is in the process of outlawing this practice cuz it is so common. But is there really a difference. What other body part will some owner think of next?[/quote]

How sad that NJ is trying to outlaw a practice that allows so many dogs to stay in their homes and not be dumped out :-(
All breeding of purebred animals and plants of any type is done to please humans - its the way we are. If you docked after nerves were knit or cropped without anesthesia I could see cruelty but not when its a surgical procedure properly done.
We spay and neuter animals for our own convenience, we confine them by law for the same reason, we kill pets for daring to bite us or our kids and so on. Is surgery cruel? I don't really think so.