Guest Anonymous Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 [quote name='xenacick']I HAVE AN 8 MONTH OLD BLUE HEELER, AND HE WAS BORN WITHOUT A TAIL. BOTH HIS MOM AND DAD WERE PAPERED AND HAD NO TAILS AS WELL. I PICKED HIM OUT WHEN HE WAS ONLY TWO WEEKS OLD AND HE HAD NO TAIL. IS THIS A COMMON THING TO HAVE A QUEENIE BE BORN WITHOUT A TAIL? I HAVE DONE SOME RESEARCH BUT NO CLEAR AWNSER CAN I EVER FIND. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO ME, I JUST WOULD LIKE TO KNOW FOR THE RECORD.[/quote] What registry is he registered with? If he is registered with CKC or one of the other common, "just-want-your-money" registry's, then he and his parents are not full blood. Heelers HAVE tails, period! There could be some Australian Shepherd blood in his background. Some of them are borned without tails, this is due to genetics. Does your Heeler have the tan highlights? Are you sure that he and his parents are not "Australian Stumpy Tail Cattle Dogs"? Is his tail at the dock or does it have a little bit of lenght to it? This is NOT a common thing. It is ONLY common for Heelers that are NOT fullblood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Well his parents were AKC reg. so that is sorta just give me your money type of reg. But his markings and other attributes are definatly Queenie. I wonder if the owner had the tails docked and then just told the owners that they were born like that. But at the same time, I picked him out when he was so young, could this have been possible? I could still feel the bone on his rump when I first met him. There is a little nub, about an inch and a half that he has coming out of his tail. He has a little red by the bottom of his legs but it blends well with the coloring that he has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 I can tell you the owners had the parents tail docked. AKC are sticklers for standard and the standard says LONG TAIL. But since AKC doesn't require a photograph of the dog to register it.....ONLY the litter application, that should tell you something about the AKC. Personally, people who dock Heelers tails are back-yard breeders and know nothing about the breed, nor do they care about the enhance of the breed. It sounds like your puppy's tail was docked. Heelers are NOT ever borned without a tail, period --- NO exceptions. Would you feel comfortable telling me the breeders? and the bloodline of your puppy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Sounds to me like your dog was docked. Docking is done at only a few days old, before the pup is old enough to feel it. The only other possibility is that you have a Stumpy tail. If I were you I would never go to this breeder again and don't reccomend anyone else does either. You could report them to the AKC or something to stop them misleading other people. I don't think you can show Cattle dogs with docked tails either, but I'm not sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 I live in Australia. These dogs are our working dogs, and they are NOT docked for working or for being a family pet. My uncle has a farm out in Gippsland, Victoria. He has 3 blueys, all working dogs. None of them (including their predecessors) have ever been docked. None of the other farms I've ever visited had their working dogs docked - the thought had never crossed the farmer's minds. Where do you US people get this insane idea that working dogs are docked? Certainly not from us. Working animals need their tail for balance. "Breeders" are actively being prosecuted for animal cruelty in Australia for docking. Vets will not touch it as it's just debilitating cosmetic surgery that serves no purpose other than a sick and twisted "fashion". It will take years to get the truly recalcitrant owners/breeders of the ultra aggressive dogs, like rottweilers and so on to stop docking, but it's only a matter of time. It's already illegal to do in two states, and as there's no legal way to do it in the other 5, it's only a matter of time before this abhorrent practise is killed off. But again, if you show people / fashion victims want a dog that at least looks like a true working dog, you will not dock your dogs. Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 [quote name='Anonymous']I live in Australia. These dogs are our working dogs, and they are NOT docked for working or for being a family pet. My uncle has a farm out in Gippsland, Victoria. He has 3 blueys, all working dogs. None of them (including their predecessors) have ever been docked. None of the other farms I've ever visited had their working dogs docked - the thought had never crossed the farmer's minds. Where do you US people get this insane idea that working dogs are docked? Certainly not from us. Working animals need their tail for balance. "Breeders" are actively being prosecuted for animal cruelty in Australia for docking. Vets will not touch it as it's just debilitating cosmetic surgery that serves no purpose other than a sick and twisted "fashion". It will take years to get the truly recalcitrant owners/breeders of the ultra aggressive dogs, like rottweilers and so on to stop docking, but it's only a matter of time. It's already illegal to do in two states, and as there's no legal way to do it in the other 5, it's only a matter of time before this abhorrent practise is killed off. But again, if you show people / fashion victims want a dog that at least looks like a true working dog, you will not dock your dogs. Andrew[/quote] Andrew: This US person totally agrees with you and will NOT ever dock tails on Heelers. I've been very vocal about this in the past & present. I won't sell a pup to a person if they elude to the fact that they are going to dock the tail after buying the pup (in fact that is on the contract). All of our dogs are working dogs and ALL have their tails! On my puppy contract, along with about 3 pages of conditions, if they dock the tail -- they have to pay a $10,000 dollar fine. And the sweet thing about it, it's ALL legal. AND I check on the puppy for the remainder of its life. Yep, I've ran several people off this way......that's fine, if you want one of my pups --- then you'll sign my contract and abide by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 this is the first time that i have ever been to this site. i was reading some of the discussions on tails and although some are childish when trying to express their opinions, it's all very interesting to me. my husband and i have been studying the blue heeler breed for a while now and i personally think their absolutely the best dogs i have ever owned(we're breeding them.), but according to akc and the ckc standards for the blue heeler, in order to register them, they must have tails. that is very clear to me. the dogs that i have seen without tails have not been purebred and are not registered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 [quote name='[email protected]']this is the first time that i have ever been to this site. i was reading some of the discussions on tails and although some are childish when trying to express their opinions, it's all very interesting to me. my husband and i have been studying the blue heeler breed for a while now and i personally think their absolutely the best dogs i have ever owned(we're breeding them.), but according to akc and the ckc standards for the blue heeler, in order to register them, they must have tails. that is very clear to me. the dogs that i have seen without tails have not been purebred and are not registered.[/quote] I have seen [b]many[/b] AKC registered ACD's with docked tails. AKC would NEVER know because they don't require pictures of the offspring that are being registered. An AKC registered ACD can not be shown if the tail is docked. There are lots of back-yard breeders that have purchased AKC registered ACD's and have docked their tail and the tails of the offspring because of ignorance (they thought for some stupid reason the tail must be docked). CKC (Continential Kennel Club) is a registry for people that have unregistered dogs and want to register them. They do NOT require pictures or other documentation as to the parentage of the dogs being registered. There are LOTS of ACD's being registered with CKC that the tails have been docked and some even have BLUE eyes and are borned without a tail. A reputable breeder or someone that is familar with the breed, knows that a Heeler does NOT have blue eyes nor are they EVER borned without a tail. I would not ever buy a CKC registered dog of any breed. This is simply NOT a reputable registry. If all the dogs that you've seen with docked tails are not purebred and are not registered then you haven't seen many Heelers. What State are you from and just how long have you been "researching" this breed? How many Heelers have you seen? I am totally against EVER docking the tail of an ACD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 i currently live in north carolina where austrailian shepherds are preferred over the blue heeler. it's sometimes hard to find blue heelers here much less a registered one. my husband and i have been studying heelers for almost three years now and although not a very long time, i know i would never own a heeler without a tail. to me it's just unheard of. so, does everyone agree with you on your opinion with ckc? i'm curious becuase when i looked up their rules and regulations a picture is required, they just don't require a dna test. although, they do offer one. and what idiot would buy a heeler with blue eyes! i'm still studying blue heelers and own one of the best. that's one of the reasons i found this site. i just to say my opinion of docked tails. the only blue heelers around here with docked tails are mixed. i had one person try to sell me heeler with a docked tail mixed with lab. she docked their tails to hide the fact that they were mixed. by the way what are the best books, websites, ect. to learn about heelers? still trying to learn as much as possible. but, i will state my opinions and if i'm corrected, then i will stand corrected. although i would like proof of the other's opinion so that i can learn of the truth myself. i don't pass everyone's opinions without proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 [quote name='[email protected]']snip so, does everyone agree with you on your opinion with ckc? snip[/quote] CKC when it stands for Continental Kennel Club is a scam registry set up for mills who have lost or never had AKC registration priviledges. When it stands for Canadian Kennel Club its a real registry for dogs bred in Canada - notice how the scam registry tries to mimic the initials of a real registry. APR IKC and many other scam registries abound now that AKC is doing DNA testing - seems the people who have been mixbreeding and or lying about who sires and dams were on litters wish to continue doing so and register their dogs with the scam registries when AKC bans them. Unknowledgeable breeders then buy pups with the scam papers and the cycle continues. Sure the web pages look good but the papers are worth about the same as the newspapers you put under the pups once the pups have used them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 There is a very nice cattledog message board on MSN [url]http://groups.msn.com/australiancattledogs/general.msnw?pgmarket=en-us[/url] You can register at the site. They are a bunch of nice people who always try to help. Personally, I am against all the registries. I think that they ruin a breed by breeding for looks instead of the working ability etc...... this is only my opinion though. My acd came off a working farm without papers and she ismore sound than the others where we live that have joint problems, the others came from reputable breeders. And all acd's should have tails. I do not work my acd but we have started herding lessons when I can make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 thank you for the insight on ckc. i've always wondered why there were two ckc websites. and i'm also glad someone else shares my opinion on papers. i feel that as long as you love the breed and love your pet, why should papers matter. the best blue heeler i own is not registered and i wouldn't trade him for anything. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 We agree, tails should not be cropped, but certain areas of the US crop all of their ACD's. When we were at a horse event in St. Louis we had offers from people that live in Idaho to crop our pup's tail for us, of course we declined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 [quote name='[email protected]']thank you for the insight on ckc. i've always wondered why there were two ckc websites. and i'm also glad someone else shares my opinion on papers. i feel that as long as you love the breed and love your pet, why should papers matter. the best blue heeler i own is not registered and i wouldn't trade him for anything. :D[/quote] Well the only way papers *can* matter IMO is if they show you the breeding behind your dog so that you can see what the dog genetically is likely to be carrying. They are pretty useless if people lie about the breedings done. OTOH having no papers at all means you have no idea at all of the heritage behind your dog which means you have no way to know how to breed to avoid increasing flaws in the next generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.