Guest Anonymous Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 I was given an Australian Blue Heeler whose tail had been docked by the breeder. Is it permissable by the standard for the breed, for the dog to have a docked tail or should it be left natural? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 Usually, the tail should not be docked on heelers because that is the big difference between Queensland Heelers and Austrailian Sheperds. A lot of times, the heelers have a lot of similar rules... (blue red or queensland) For this reason, I would be led to believe your puppy may have some Sheperd in it. Was it papered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 In the U. S. ( at least in the South),We do dock the tails of 90% of the heeler's tails. Quennsland, blue , red, or dingo merle, if it will be a working stock dog, the tail has to go. I have never seen a heeler with a tail after it was 6-8 weeks old, not a pure bred anyway. I prefer the dock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 Australian Cattle Dogs use their tail as a rudder and for balance. Usually, it is the back-yard breeder that docks the tail. All of our Cattle Dogs are ranch working dogs and they all have tails. We have never docked their tails and never will. Tail dockers usually know nothing about the characteristics of the breed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 Working ACD's usually have their tails docked. (most aren't papered) Show ACD's usually have long tails. It was the same case with Border Collies, and still is in Scotland. Working Border Collies get their tail's docked. Show/conformation border collie's have long tails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 In TEXAS, Border Collie breeders - work or show - DO NOT dock their dogs tails, ever. Most of the reputable ACD breeders - WORKING ACD's, that are registered - DO NOT ever dock tails. Why? Because they are not ignorant of the breed and the breed characteristics. We work ALL of our Australian Cattle Dogs, they are ALL registered, they ALL have long tails. NEVER have they had their tail stepped on, encrusted with fecal matter, mud, stickers, or anything else. We don't dock our Border Collie's tails, nor do we dock our Australian Kelpie's tail. They all work livestock for a living. Again, tail docking is usually done by back-yard breeders that know nothing about the breed and think that for some mentally challenaged reason, the tail MUST be docked. They breed for the money, not the enhancement of the breed. Tail dockers are usually the same people that continually say, "oh, I have a red and blue Heeler cross". They are all Australian Cattle Dogs, they are either blue or red in color. You can't CROSS them, because they are the same breed. I can't speak for anyone else's dog, but ours aren't stupid --- they've never gotten their tail caught. They use it as a rudder, balance and for conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 I was never implying that your dogs should have their tails docked. It is just how it has been done for a while. Back then, that is how they told a working dog from a show dog. None of my border collies have their tails docked either... I would never do that. And I am not saying that it is right to dock their tails. Though most working ACD's that are not papered, that are used strictly for working purposes, have their tails docked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 Are you planning to show your dog? If not, it shouldn't really matter whether the tail is docked or not. Docking of cattle dogs is a personal preference, there is no real reason for it except some people believe that it should be done for working dogs so their tail doesn't get caught... I live in the country and I have never seen a working dog get its tail caught! Actually, most of the docked cattle dogs I see around here aren't even used as working dogs, but instead are used as guard dogs and most of them are bred with something a little larger to make them more intimidating. I must say, some of the best guard dogs I've come across are cattle dog crosses. Another thing to think of is that some of these so called "docked" cattle dogs aren't australian cattle dogs at all, but instead are stumpy tailed cattle dogs, born with no tail. The comment made before about blue heelers and red heelers being the same breed is incorrect, they are seperate breeds with seperate characteristics, blue heelers are an older breed and the red has more dingo bred into it, though apart from that they are very similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 [color=blue]Quote: Aroura: "The comment made before about blue heelers and red heelers being the same breed is incorrect, they are seperate breeds with seperate characteristics, blue heelers are an older breed and the red has more dingo bred into it, though apart from that they are very similar." [/color] [color=darkred]They are NOT separate breeds --- they are Australian Cattle Dogs, they are just either red or blue in color. DNA and their genetics prove they are the same breed, only different colors. Genes determine the color. If this were true then....black, yellow and chocolate Labs are really just 3 different breeds-------NOT. [/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 [quote name='Lafayette Kennels']It was the same case with Border Collies, and still is in Scotland. Working Border Collies get their tail's docked. Show/conformation border collie's have long tails.[/quote] Total CRAP!!! Scotland's Border Collies, Show or Working do not have their tails docked I am a farmer with 4 Collies and I have never even heard of this, beleive me you are totally wrong here. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 [quote name='Anonymous'][quote name='Lafayette Kennels']It was the same case with Border Collies, and still is in Scotland. Working Border Collies get their tail's docked. Show/conformation border collie's have long tails.[/quote] Total CRAP!!! Scotland's Border Collies, Show or Working do not have their tails docked I am a farmer with 4 Collies and I have never even heard of this, beleive me you are totally wrong here. :o[/quote] Whao, settle down!!! Thats a bit harsh, who are you to be so critical when all that was said was a simple mistake. You could easily have just informed that it is incorrect instead of stating that it is total CRAP! It is people like you who make other guests so unwelcome in this forum. :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 I just hate the way some of the people on this forum think that they know everything and totally mislead people who are trying to educate themselves. If you don't know what you are talking about you should not make comment. People who post saying this and that without knowing their facts can cause more harm than good Tell me why it's ok for someone to talk crap! but I'm in the wrong for pointing it out!........I think a bit of double standards here! I've watched this site for some time now and to be honest if someone other than a certain group on this forum has anything to say that does not fit in with their ideals then the said small group come down on them! it's no wonder people prefer to stay unknown! It's time you all came down off your pedastools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 You need to get YOUR facts straight. I happen to have 2 scottish imports! one is registered but is only a working and breeding dog and he has a docked tail! His name is SC AM CH. Meadowskye English Toffee (chocolate male, call name Cappacino) and another one I am having imported in august of 2002 is a 6 month old with a docked tail! Her name is Meadowskye Last Rainforest (Blue female, call name Dancer). Don't go around like you know everything because you don't! just because YOU don't or have never seen a Border Collie with a docked tail does not mean it is not done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 IF these dogs exist, then they are truely very rare! and MY FACTS are straight.........show me a pic of your docked collie and I might just believe you......................the only time these dogs tails are 'docked' are because of medical reasons ie: injured and need the tail removed in the best interest of the animal! I do know my own breed! and I am not saying anything that's not true and factual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 I just can't help myself ----- maybe these Scottish bred, imported Border Collies are working undercover trying to infiltrate the AUSSIE registry. I agree with the "total crap" person. This forum, like the the Border Collie forum, is ran by a few people, some wearing rose colored glasses and some are not. There are some people that are looking for correct answers from these forums. If something is posted that is not correct, then that person has been educated incorrectly. Example: red & blue Heeler NOT being the same breed. Again, IT IS THE SAME BREED. RED AND BLUE ARE JUST COLORS --- NOT A BREED IN ITS SELF. The breeder in Scotland that is docking their Border Collie's tails is someone that I personally would want to stay away from. It sounds like he/she is more out for the money, than to enhance the breed. Border Collie's are WORKING dogs, they were bred for this, their genetics have been nutured for generations for livestock herding. For someone to breed for other than this.......it is demeaning to the Border Collie as a breed. Lafayette Kennels - go to [url]www.bordercollie.org[/url] then click on BC Boards, then scroll down and click "enter the boards". PLEASE post what you are posting here on the Border Collie Board and take a long rein and a deep seat ---- because it WILL be interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 Hey Lafayette, never mind posting on the Border Collie forum....someone already done that for you! Whew, you should see the responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 Lafayette: I don't claim to know it all but most acd's do not have docked tails if they are not registered but come from working lines.....mine is from working lines, not registered and guess what she has a tail which is the norm.....many, many years ago tail docking was done most of the time but it is not done that way any longer.....an acd needs its tail to act as a rudder when working, etc......certain breeders may choose to dock tails but they are the rare ones....and as someone else pointed out that some of the acd's you or someone else has seen with docked tails may actually be stumpy tailed cattledogs which are technically a different breed and they obviously do not have a tail...... Regarding the border collies with docked tails.....that is also not the norm. And please explain why in one posting you claim that you do not own a border collie with a docked tail but then in another post you talk about-- "None of my border collies have their tails docked either" "I happen to have 2 scottish imports! one is registered but is only a working and breeding dog and he has a docked tail" and then something about another one you are getting with a docked tail..... If you are going to post you should really make sure that all your postings are not contradicting one another. Maybe then people will take you more seriously. Because of these Old Wives Tales that are going around, people will continue to hurt the breed by docking the tail for no reason.......acd's need and should have a tail for working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 Thanks 2 Devils, I have been preaching the NO-TAIL DOCKING sermon for many, many years. It's nice to finally hear someone else say the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 What can I say? I am a tail fancier, for dogs that is :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 [quote name='2 Devils']What can I say? I am a tail fancier, for dogs that is :lol:[/quote] And I prefer docked tails - so who is to say who is correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 AGAIN! MY BORDERS ARE REGISTERED ONLY FOR WORKING PURPOSES! I CARE NOT IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IT... I KNOW THE KENNEL WHERE I GOT THEM. THEY ARE REGISTERED. AND I REALLY COULD CARE LESS IF THEY HAVE TAILS. THAY ARE NOT SHOW DOGS. THAY ARE SHEEP HERDING DOGS. MY SHOW DOGS ALL HAVE LONG TAILS JUST LIKE THE STANDARD. IT IS JUST THE SAME IF YOU ASK ME. SOME BOXER BREEDERS CROP THE EARS AND TAILS OF THEIR DOGS. SOME DO NOT! THIS GOES FOR MANY BREEDS! PIT BULLS, STAFFIES, AMSTAFFS, MANY MASTIFF BREEDS, BOXERS, AUSSIES, AUSTRALIAN CATTLE DOGS, DOBERMANS, BRIARDS, BEAUCERONS, SCHNAUZERS, BOUVIER DES FLANDRES, BRITTANY, MANY SPORTING BREEDS, MANY TERRIER BREEDS, GERMAN PINSCHERS, MANCHESTER TERRIER, MINIATURE PINCHER, ROTTWEILERS, AMONG OTHERS. MANY BREEDERS CHOOSE TO LEAVE THEIER DOGS EARS AND TAILS LONG AND FLOPPY. THEY THINK CROPPING AND DOCKING IS A CRUEL MEATHOD. THEN AGAIN, SOME PEOPLE DOCK THE TAIL JUST FOR FASHION PURPOSES. TWO OF MY BC'S HAVE DOCKED TAILS AND MY AUSTRALIAN SHEPHERD HAS A LONG TAIL. I CARE NOT WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE. THEY ARE DOGS, WORKING DOGS AND PETS, NOT RUNWAY FASHION MODELS!!! And for whoever posted about someone posting at BC's. org. I looked. You give me the URL to the discussion because I do not see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 1, 2002 Share Posted June 1, 2002 I have probably seen over 1,000 working Border collies, many of which are imported from Scotland, and I have never seen any Border collie with a docked tail. I understand that some folks out in the western US and Canada might do this occasionally, but it is certainly not the norm, and to say "working dogs have their tails docked" is a serious misstatement. Bill Fosher Surry, NH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 1, 2002 Share Posted June 1, 2002 Lafayette: Go to [url]www.bordercollie.org[/url] Click on BC Boards; Scroll down and click Enter the Boards; Then click on General Discussion; Then click on Another Forum ----- you should be there. I am sure you will be trialling your tail-less Border Collies, right? Or they just AKC registered dogs that only work at home? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 I own 3 dogs: acd, border collie mix and a mini poodle.......the poodle is the only one with a docked tail.....they should be docked. I am not against docking and cropping so for those who think I am, you are wrong. All 3 of my dogs are pets first and 2 participate in flyball. They are not used for working stock. I enjoy the breeds and all my dogs are pets first if my dogs did not want to do dog sports they would still be my pets. Acd's and border collies do not have docked tails as the norm, most breeders do not dock the tails....some breeders may choose to do so and that is there right but saying that most non-registerd working acd's and border collies have docked tails is incorrect..... Getting defensive over someone stating facts opposite than what you post is the wrong way to handle things. These facts can be found on many websites about acd's. Your opinion is your opinion and you have the right to it bit please don't mislead people with your opinion and making them seem like actual facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 I HAVE AN 8 MONTH OLD BLUE HEELER, AND HE WAS BORN WITHOUT A TAIL. BOTH HIS MOM AND DAD WERE PAPERED AND HAD NO TAILS AS WELL. I PICKED HIM OUT WHEN HE WAS ONLY TWO WEEKS OLD AND HE HAD NO TAIL. IS THIS A COMMON THING TO HAVE A QUEENIE BE BORN WITHOUT A TAIL? I HAVE DONE SOME RESEARCH BUT NO CLEAR AWNSER CAN I EVER FIND. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO ME, I JUST WOULD LIKE TO KNOW FOR THE RECORD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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