zheelah

:laugh2_2: he looks lovely though, but those ears are great

*hug* I am so so so sorry for your loss Rest in Peace Holly

Congratulation, you will get the hang of showing :wink: I bet you will get the showbug like me :wink:

Well we don't have rat terriers here yet, but I like them very much, but there are a lot of GSD, and I personally am getting to like them better and better every day, and I might even get a GSD one day (I have two dogs right now and they are enough :) ) but raggagisla nice to see people here that I know,

:D Awww, I know :) but thank you :wink:

Hey Kat, I would really love to read your thesis :wink:

Have you thought about SAR???

Raising the hackels is a function that the body uses to let out heat, you can see this a lot hen the dogs are playing, it is connected to adrenalin. A lot of people think that because the dog raises the hackles that he is angry, wich is some times true but not always, he is just letting out heat :)

[url]www.dpca.org[/url] Study this website, it is loaded with info on the dobermann and it can help you a lot (well if you haven't already seen it). Breeders and owners can now DNA-test for the von Wildebrands disease, wich is a great health risk in the dobermann, I would also like to see that the dogs have had their eyes checked. Good luck.

[quote name='Black GSD']And in some breeds like the GSD, there are even more "types" than that. There is the American Show lines, German Show lines, German Working lines, Czech and DDR (What used to be East Germany) lines. Then there are those dogs that are a combination of any of the above lines. There are also those that we GSD people call the American BYB lines. Oh and the White lines too :roll: . And not only are the looks as different as night and day between the lines, but so are the tempements and working ability(or LACK of it :evil: .)[/quote] It's the same with the dobermann, you have the american dobermann, the british, the middle europe, eastern europe and southern europe, the african dogs look nothing like a dobermann and off course in america you have all the different colours, including albino. The AKC and the British kennel klub have different standards to the FCI, but the FCI only uses the standard of the home country of each breed. nea, its is very much alike with sweden and iceland, we use sweden and norway a lot as a model of how we do things here :wink:

Well IMO any dog that was breed in the beginning as a working dog should have to with stand a test that prooves that it can work before it is bred. As Black GSD stated in another post, dogs can have bad temperment and still become a show champion, and that is probably the only title a dog can gain with out being able to learn and work with his owner (although most real show dogs are very well trained for the ring). I don't necciserily mean that a dog has to be able to do the work it was originally bred for if that work is not done any more, I don't want Borzoi owners to start hunting wolfes or anything. Well let me tel you how the sistem works here, I have a dobermann, he has been shown and is on his way to become a champion. The requierments for him to become a champion is that he has earned three cc, has his hips rated, has done his mentaltest and passed, an he has to pass a obedience and tracking test (protection training is forbidden here). To me this is not to much, this states that my dog, who is of a working breed, needs to look like the breed standards states, be healthy, have a good temperment and be able to learn and work before he becomes a champion and deserves it. I think that when breeding a working dog, if it cant do the work it is bred for the breeders are doing something very wrong. A Border collie should be able to herd, a Golden retriever should be able to retrieve a bird, a pointer should be able to find a bird, if they cant they should not be bred, no matter how good looking they are. The same goes for a working champion, dogs can become ahunting champion, but it should still have to fulfill some requierments of the way it looks. We have many breeds that have two types of dogs, working dogs and show dogs, they should be the same or at least more like each other than they have become.

[quote name='SexxieRacerChik']Emmm.....well not everyone who owns a dog owns one to use/work. Are you suggesting that people who just want a pet shouldn't get certain breeds of dogs? So people who have Border Collie's shouldn't have them unless they work a herd with them? Thats kinda silly don't you think?[/quote] No that is not what I mean, my dogs are pets, but I still work with them, I use my border collie to herd horses, and I obedience train them both, and we do agility and tracking and I am even starting SAR training with by BC, but both my dogs, my BC and my dobermann are still my pets. Well I did not speccify the kind of work a certain breed should be doing, but IMO if you want a dog of a working breed, you should know that the dog is most likely to be a dog that you can train or work with, I have a border collie and a dobermann and I train them both in a lot of fields, agility, obedience, herding and others, the point is that you do something with you dog, be it obedience, tracking, schutzhund or just simple tricks. If you want a dobermann just because it is beautifull (well they are really stunning) and you if you dont want to do anything with it, I would advise a different breed, or better yet just get a statue. I am in no way saying that you have to schutzhund train them, but every dog should be obedience trained and then you can do any kind of work or training you like, the dobermann is in fact a working dog and if you dont do anything with it it is likely to become destructive and in most ways the worst dog in the world.

[quote name='Black GSD'] In America the ONLY thing a dog of ANY breed has to do in order to become a Champion is "look pretty" :evil: . (And not try to bite the judge.) I have seen dogs that have AWEFULL temperments get their Championship :roll: . They are judged SOLEY on their conformation and movement (how closely they resemble the breed standard). They can have bad hips (Being xrayed is NOT required to gain a championship, NOR is it required before they can be bred), bad temperments(not saying all or even most DO have bad temperments, but they CAN, and some DO.), and NO working ability. :evil:[/quote] OMI that is really stoopid, and I will never understand why AKC is ok with this. Many working dogs come from Germany, like the dobermann, rottweiler, GSD and many others, and a dog of a working breed cant become a champion if it doesn

:BIG: Congratulations on your succes at crufts, and we want photos :o :D :wink:

Well it will not be his last show, but this is about the last show he attended :wink: Well we didn't get his last cc this time but there will be a show after this one (bad thing is that it isn's untill the middle of June :-? ) but he was third in his class and got a good review, so we have to wait until june and until then we are working on agility, competitive obedience and we will start tracking trainig as soon as it starts (we have to wait until the wether is better) I will post pictures later, I had some friends take pictures but they haven't sent them yet

Should a dog of a working breed be able to become champion with out having to show any ability to work in any way?? Should a retriever be able to become champion with out being able to hunt, or a borded collie become a champion if it doesn't herd or work in any other way??? Should a dog be used for breeding if he only looks the way the breed is supposed to look, but can't do the work the breed was developed to do?? I would love to hear your thoughts

[quote name='Black GSD'][quote name='zheelah']I would ask her for results from hips, von Wildebrands DNA tests, and other health tests. Her dogs look good and she seems to be a good breeder, but I do not like the fact that she bred two dogs that have the same mother. Also since the dobermann is a working dog, I would like to see that her dogs can actualy work, in any field, agility, obedience, tracking. She seems good, but try to get to talk to previous puppy buyers. Good luck with this breed, I love it to :wink:[/quote] She DOES appear to breed dogs that are NOT OFA :x . (She only has 7 dogs that show on the OFA site as being OFA fair of better. Is this because they are the only ones xrayed? Or is it because they are the only ones that "passed"?) She only has 1 dog that shows on the OFA site as far as being tested for VWD. One of the bitches that has had several litters does NOT show on the OFA site. She does have some that have a CD. (But that really isn't that hard. You CAN have a dog with a bad temperment get a CD. ) And I TOTALLY agree. I REALLY don't like the fact that she bred brother to sister. :evil: (Even IF they did have different sires.)[/quote] With this knowlegde I would not buy from her, there are a lot of good dobermann breeders out there. I would not buy a dog if the parents are not OFA rated, with this particular breed I would never buy if the parents are not DNA tested for von Wildebrands. I think that it is stoopid to breed a working type breed and not work with it, the dobermann is a working dog and it should be able to work, if it isn't able it should not be used for breeding. How is it in america, can a dobermann become a champion with out passing a working test???

I would ask her for results from hips, von Wildebrands DNA tests, and other health tests. Her dogs look good and she seems to be a good breeder, but I do not like the fact that she bred two dogs that have the same mother. Also since the dobermann is a working dog, I would like to see that her dogs can actualy work, in any field, agility, obedience, tracking. She seems good, but try to get to talk to previous puppy buyers. Good luck with this breed, I love it to :wink:

one border collie mix, so I will include her in the mixed breeds, and one dobermann here so the list goes 1 Akita 1 Alaskan Malamute 1 American Cocker Spaniel 2 American Pit Bull Terriers 1 Border Collie 2 British Bulldogs 2 Bull Terriers 1 Boxer 2 Chihuahuas 2 Chinese Cresteds 1 dobermann 1 Labrador Retriever 3 Lhasa Apsos 10 Mixed breed dogs 4 Newfoundlands 3 Rottweilers 4 Saint Bernards 2 Shar-peis 2 Staffordshire Bull Terriers 2 Standard Poodles 1 Toy Poodle 1 West Highland Terrier

good luck and have FUN :drinking: , and we want all the detales when you come back :wink:

[quote name='"SexxieRacerChik"'] Combined with appearnce looks having your dobes ear cropped also functions in a health manor. They have long floppy ears that cover the ear canal completely when left uncropped. It is true you have the option and most people do it out of a looks standard created for the breed. But not having it done also increases your dog's risk of developing ear infections..somewhat equivalent to that of cocker spaniels.[quote] I do not agree in any way that an uncropped dobermann is more prone to bad ear infection, Rottweilers and Labrador have very simillar ears to an uncropped dobie. I have a natural ear dobie and he has never had any problems with ear infection, and almost all dobermanns here are uncropped and there is no higher incident of ear infection, not in the boxers either. Iwould not want my dog to be cropped, since today there is no reason for it other than for apearance, he looks a lot less scary and a lot more friendly with his ears tha way they are.

oooooooohhhhhhh Its purdy..... can I keep it???? I envy you so much right now, you have to have extra fun at Crufts for all of us here that can't go 8) :drinking:

My dobie boy does this stalking move to, but just in fun and while playing with dogs he knows. The behavior does not come out when he is a round fast moving little dogs, or cats, just when he is inviting other dogs to play chase :)

Wow Meg really trusts you a lot since she chose not to disobbey you even when the dog was on top of her. I hope this doesn't have any effect on her and I doubt it but I think you handled it correctly :wink:

I do agree that it is tacky to put the foot behind the leg, and I would expect a trained showdog to stand still on command after you have laced his feet in he correct spot. I have a dobermann that I am showing to his championship (we have only one cc left) and I when I have stacked him he stands still like he is supposed to. [quote name='Black GSD']As far as getting the dog to pull out on the leash, in the U.S. they DO use double handlers. (Though they are not "supposed" to according to the AKC, they do anyway. :roll: ) And, IMO it is THE most annoying thing ever. But it is easy to teach a dog to pull. (Afterall, MOST puppies would rather pull on the leash than BE pulled or stay next to the handler.) I teach mine a "command" to pull. Starting from when they are puppies.[/quote] I have heard horror stories of the uses of double handling in the GSD show ring to get the dog to pull, it is sometimes a hazzard to stand to close to the ring because of running owners trying to get their dogs to pull their handlers :-? We cant use double handling here, and if we did it is not so lightly overlooked, I cant therefore stack my dobermann in the europe way so I use a mixture of the brittish and american (not as extravigant as the american though). I will never understand why GSD handlers dont do more of teaching their dogs to pull on command, because it is very easy :)