Papillons

I haven't lied about my breed (papillons). It's kind of hard to confuse them of anything else. Though some people think they make a good long haired chi. ;) I have however lied about the price of them! :oops: When people say "Oh what a gorgeous dog, how much do they run?" I size them up. If they look like their inquiring about the breed and not just the value... I tell them the truth. About $1,000-$3,000. If it's someone shady who ONLY is concerned about the price, I lie and say "Eh you can get them around $200." LOL That's awful, but my babies are so precious to me they are much more than a pricetag.

I replied to this in the "Everything About Dogs" section. :) I had a papillon with luxating patellas. I also a couple of months ago started a thread here about it. There's all kinds of information in there too. [url]http://forum.dogomania.com/viewtopic.php?t=15608[/url] Good luck!

I have a papillon that was operated on for luxating patellas. He was a grade 2 on one knee and a 3 on the other. The surgery failed and both were still luxating. This time they were worse and were luxating both inward and outward. I had no choice but to go through another surgery because he had no stability in either hind leg. The next surgery was more painful and more complex. 4 months later we are still dealing with problems and he's still possibly luxating in one of his knees. Surgery was the worst thing I could have ever done to my little guy. I wish I had tried other alternative methods first. I highly recommend you get her on some Glucosamine (500-750mg daily), MSM (500mg) and Chondroiten (500mg.) Get the human doses for this, as they are less expensive and much stronger. This will help with the pain and swelling. You should also try to limit her acitivity, carry her up and down stairs and don't let her jump on the couches or beds. I know this sounds impossible, but it just takes a little more time and it really helps. If things don't change, she will only get worse. :( Does she like to swim? If so, try to find a place that does therapy on dogs or horses. Hydrotherapy has done wonders for my papillon. If your pom is small enough, you might be able to fill a tub or utility sink and let her swim (supervised and with your help of course.) I use a towel under my pap's belly and pull it up and hold on tight... he's lifted off the tub bottom and supported by the towel, and still able to swim in place. This is great for building up the muscles around the patella and helping it hold the knee in place. Slow walking on a loose leash up and down a very gentle hill may help too. If you notice she's more sensitive after the walk, stop. The more muscle you can build around her knee, the less likely it will pop out. However, if she can't walk on a loose leash and yanks and pulls on you, it's ONLY going to make it worse. :( I would try NOT to walk her if that's the case. Let her exercise in the home. These small dogs are tough. They learn to adapt. Soon you'll see her manipulating her own leg to get it back into place. Good luck with your girl. I hope things go well! Colleen

I don't know if this applies to dogs, but in horses when a coat gets downy it could be from Cushing's disease. I know dogs can get this, so that's one thing to check for maybe? I hope they took your advice with the CBC! Let us know how things go. :)

[quote name='gooeydog']natural stand up ears- GSDs (and the other similar shepherd breeds), Chows, Akitas, some APBTs and AmStaffs (Staffordshire Bull Terriers are not supposed to be cropped), Heelers, Chis, Pharoah and Ibizan hounds, Malamutes, Huskies, Basenjis, Scotties, Corgis, Bull Terriers, Yorkies, Poms, Westies, Boston Terriers (can be cropped as well), French Bulldogs. [/quote] Don't forget Papillons! ;)

[quote=Ripley's Girl] Colleen, how'd the show turn out?[/quote] Fabulous! :D Gabe went Best Of Winners and Best Of Opposite Sex for his first two points!! :) We have another show on the 23rd I believe. Cross your fingers. ;) Colleen

Aww thanks guys!! It means so much to me! :) We've worked so hard for this. :) Golden... I've been reading up on the European shows. How interesting! It's very different but I'd like to learn even more. :)

Today I was walking one of my paps around at the local park. A lady approached me with a young bitch and we started talking. I could tell Gabe was really interested in the girl so I said, "Is your dog in heat?" She looked at me funny and said, "Oh she might be! She's 9 1/2 months now." I told her I could tell because of Gabe's behavior. (I show Gabe so he has been left intact.) She told me she wanted to breed her dog, and I'm sure I must have looked shocked. I asked what breed the dog was. It was 1/2 toy poodle, 1/4 pom and 1/4 chi. She then proceeded to ask if I'd be interested in breeding Gabe to her dog. I was appalled. I told her that her dog was a) WAY too young b) mixed c) not to mention not health tested. She said "Well I was going to let you have one of the puppies or give you money for one of them when I sell it." I'm sure she was insulted when I told her firmly no, but I just couldn't believe she wanted to breed this puppy. In fact she said she wanted to hurry up and breed her before she came out of her heat. And this was a woman that had no idea her dog was in heat in the first place! I tried to tell her all of the bad things that could go wrong, how there were already so many unwated dogs, and how she needed to take care of her young bitch and be a responsible owner while she is in heat. I wish there were more ways to educate the public on the overpopulation of dogs and backyard breeding. Vets should put more pressure on their clients to spay or neuter their dogs. Especially those who are mixed or those looking to make money from a breeding. It's so upsetting. :( I'm sorry... I just had to vent. I hope she doesn't find a "mate"... but I'm sure there will be some taker. Sigh. -Colleen

I just have to share my excitement. lol Gabe (my 14 month old papillon) went Best of Winners and Best of Opposite Sex on Saturday! It's our very first 2 points and we beat a lot of difficult dogs. :) I didn't take pictures, but I got pictures done, so when I get them back, I'll be able to post it. :) *grinning from ear to ear!* :D -Colleen

Oh! I forgot to add... Colby passed his 5 week exam. His patellas feel perfectly in place. We're going to continue with the therapy and get him rechecked again in 4 weeks. Cross your fingers for us. :)

I guess I'm a little late... but one good thing to do is give Pedialyte. It's a baby/toddler liquid that helps with dehydration. It's very important to keep a puppy hydrated while they are ill with digestive problems. Glad he's feeling better though. :) And stay away from those nasty snacks. LOL

Oh no, I am so sorry to hear about Ripley. :( At least his hips are good! And know that a grade 1 isn't something the dogs can't live with. Each time you go to the vet, have them check his patellas quickly to make sure they aren't getting worse. It's possible as he ages his knees may worsen. Still, try everything before surgery. lol Get him on those supplements if you haven't already and limit his jumping and stairs if possible. [b]Ikeffect[/b]... Thank you for that information! That's definitely something I'll look into.

[quote=Ripley's Girl]She has offered to take him back and refund our money, but I wouldn't give him up for anything, and certainly not to her. [/quote] Oh I don't blame you. There's no way you could give him up! I can't believe people even offer that. They know they have you stuck because you'd never trade love for money! [quote] I really should have looked farther for a better quality breeder, but at the time I was 13 and weary after being criticized by show breeders and denied a puppy because of my age and inexperience with the breed.. (Before they even knew me, or TALKED to me on the phone, at that. :x ) [/quote] Don't beat yourself up over it. I should have looked for better in my first Papillon, but I didn't. I love him and nothing could ever change that. :) Like you said... you learn from your mistakes, even if it was the hard way. :evil: Show breeders are a tough crowd. They love their dogs so much that they are skeptical of everyone. Thankfully so. But, sometimes in their skepticism, they turn away the best homes. I was turned away by breeders for a year before I finally got Colby. [quote] He could very well be a performance dog, I wouldn't mind getting more involved in obedience, he's smart as a whip and would be very good at it. [/quote] Ohhh I hope you start soon!!!! I bet he'd be amazing! :) [quote] GOOD LUCK in the show, let me know how it goes!! :D[/quote] Thank you Thank you! Gabe's more than happy to go.. but it's Loki's first time out. Cross your fingers for us! ;) -Colleen, Colby, Gabe and Loki

lol My list of questions.... ;) How old was he when he first had the surgery? What kind of anesthesia was used, if you know? What kind of hernia did he have? What was his recovery time like afterwards? Is he sensitive to shots or allergic to anything? He still could be a performance dog! :) Do you like obedience? If you can manage those legs and hips... I think he'd do fine! He might not be able to do agility, but I don't see why some obedience work would do much harm. What was your breeder like? Do they know if they have these problems in their lines often? Were the parents health tested? I'm really interested in genetics soley because my breeder is going to use one of my dogs as a stud for his breeding program once he gets his championship, passes his CGC test, and passes the rest of his health tests. (So far, so good!) And we have another show this weekend! ;) Cross your fingers!

He sure is a beauty. Those ears alone are gorgeous! There's a lot to think about when bringing in a toy dog with other large dogs, but if you're extremely careful and teach all the dogs to respect each other's space, it should work out. :) Good luck! He is so precious!

[quote=Ripley's Girl]Heh, I don't like meat either.. *I* don't eat it, but I'm not a carnivore. It's been kind of hard for me to adjust to feeding my 5lb pap a diet that a wolf would get, but after I've seen how well he does on it, I can't bring myself to feed exclusively kibble anymore. I also happen to have the most finicky dog on the face of the earth. He turns up his nose at raw meat sometimes. :roll: I mean sending the x-rays in of his hips. Dahhhhh, sorry, my mind is skipping all over the place! We haven't had that done yet, we will next Monday with the vet here, or in a couple of weeks with the vet in Arizona. I have a question.. can you FEEL the patella slipping around when you flex the dog's leg? Because I have my hand on Ripley's knee and I'm moving his leg around, and I can't feel anything really abnormal. I've even compared it to what I feel on my Border Collie (Who I KNOW is clear of that problem) and it's not any different... :-?[/quote] LOL I can't stand meat in general... I don't know how I'd deal with raw meat and watching them chomp away. ;) I agree with you and the kibble thing. Mine never get kibble. They get the wet food, and then tons of supplements. Chicken, carrots, noodles... whatever they think tastes good and keeps them a good weight. ;) It's hard keeping weight on my two smallest who aren't neutered. I'm unsure how long it takes for the results to come back. :( I've never had that test done myself. I wonder if others here might know though!! My guess would be several weeks. But, your vet should be able to give you an idea right after it's done. As for feeling the patella... this is a fragile subject. lol A GOOD sign is that you can't feel anything moving thus far. Try this: Stand him on a table (or if he isn't comfortable on one, set him up on the floor.) Try to get all four feet straight so he's level and has good balance. Now left one hind foot while keeping one hand on the patella. Lift it all the way up, and place it down. Do this a few times. (Lift it straight up, so that he bends at the knee.) Do both legs. Next, take one foot and pull it gentally backwards until it's fully extended, while keeping your one hand on his patella to feel for movement. Then bend the leg back up so where it's bent off of the ground, but close to his body. Extend it again a few times and keep feeling around. You don't want to press hard or pull any ligaments you feel. If you don't immediately feel things moving around... that's a great sign! He should be at the most just a 2. A 3 will move in and out... and 4 will be hard to identify because it's ALWAYS out. lol You might feel a weird knob on him. The best bet is to let the vet do it though... they know where to press and how much pressure to apply to see if it will slip out of place. Good luck! :)

[quote=Ripley's Girl] From what I've seen, they aren't any more than a 2. We are going to send his tests in to OFA to have it really checked out. (I'll let you know when the results get back.. How long does it usually take?) We had one vet tell us that his knees were fine, but I had a vet tech friend say that there was something suspicious up with those hind legs... So he is going to see his good friend the vet sometime this week, and then when we get to Arizona he is going to see his OTHER good friend the vet there. :P I like to get as many opinions as I can. I've also noticed an improvement since I switched his diet.. I forgot to mention that to you. He was eating super-premium foods, Innova, Solid Gold, Wellness, and the such, but when I switched him to a raw diet, it seemed to help him relax a bit more too.[/quote] Good for you! Getting second (and third) opinions! :) The more advice and the more people you talk to, the better informed you'll be. A grade 2 shouldn't be operated on. Don't let them talk you into it! lol A grade 3 is very questionable, because often times it progresses to a grade 4. When it's a grade 4 for a long time, it's not repairable. :( I'm anxious to hear about his hip problems. The poor baby! This isn't common at all in paps, so I'm really curious what they have to say. As for sending in the OFA results... I'm a little confused. Do you mean patella or hip? Because the patellas your DR should be able to tell you right away. :) Hips will need to be x-rayed. And that is darn expensive. :( But useful so you know what you're dealing with. I wish you luck!!! You sound so responsible and I can tell how much you care for your boy. :) You're doing everything perfectly!! Interesting that you mentioned the raw diet. I, myself, can't get over it to make it for the boys. LOL I just don't like meat in general, and it's hard enough for me to cook them some chicken to add to their Wellness/Verus. I'm glad it seems to be helping Ripley though! I wish him all the luck in the world. :)

[quote name='Kissta'] Forgive me if this comes accross as harch. But why in the world would you allow your little guy to go through his life in pain? If this is to be his final outcome are you choosing to medicate him and to help him up everyday? I know how you feel about your dogs, I feel the same about mine. They are members of my family and losing one of them would break my heart. But I would never put them through a life of pain. I pray your little Colby heals and has the quality of life that every dog should have. And I would most defiantly get a second opinion. Krista[/quote] Trust me, Krista... I've tried everything imaginable to get this boy sound again. We've had top notch specialists looking at him across the region. Pretty much they have no other advice. I've had to turn to homeopathic remedies myself. :( We do have some pain killers around, but I generally only give them to him on really bad day. Also, he is only 5 weeks post his second operation. It's very normal for him to be in a great deal of pain. Some patella surgeries cause the dog to hop or stand on its FRONT legs lol. I think we're doing very well with him just walking relatively soundly. He goes for his 5 week checkup tomorrow. We'll hear one way or the other if this may or may not work. It breaks my heart to know he's crippled and probably will be for the rest of his life. The only thing left to do at this point is manage his pain and get him in therapy. I will not put this dog under for another surgery that will just fail. Thank you for the well wishes. :) ------------ RipleysGirl... You can get all of these supplements at a health food store, or sometimes even KMart or Walmart. :) We go back and forth looking for the lowest prices and sales because we feed it to 3 dogs! LOL And we go through it quickly. Also... for the Glucosamine, look for the "sulfate" kind instead of the "HCL". They digest and use Glucosamine Sulfate better. :) ------------ DAL -- Thank you! I'm really crossing my fingers! But I don't want to be too positive and end up crushed again! (And sobbing out of the office LOL!!!) I will update tomorrow. :)

Oh please please PLEASE take my advice and try everything humanly possible to avoid surgery. I've been talking to a lot of papillon owners... apparently patella surgery and papillons just doesn't mix. There are really good outcomes, and then horrible ones like mine. Colby will forever be in pain even if it does correct. He will always have arthritis. What degree are Ripley's knees now? If they aren't a 3+ don't worry about surgery. Often times these little guys can manage it on their own. The way you're describing it, it doesn't seem like he's really that affected by it. How much pain is he in? If he still runs, jumps, and plays like always, I'd hold out as long as I can. Massage is a wonderful thing! I wish I had looked for more homeopathic remedies than jumping into surgery so quickly. Vets tell us too often that surgery is the only answer. It's not. :( Do you have him on supplements? For his 5 pound frame... I'd immediately start him on this: 500-800mg Glucosamine 500mg Chondroitin 500mg MSM 1 tsp Apple Cider Vinegar (with the Mother ingredient. This has to come from a health food store and not the grocery store.) If Colby didn't have his glucosamine, chondroitin, or MSM, he'd never be able to move! These all are great joint supplements. The ACV improves circulation (which will get blood flowing to his joints better) and is also a pain reducer. (Along with many other benefits.) Have you tried hydrotherapy? Even sticking him in your tub and filling it up and helping him swim will REALLY help those joints. If you want more information on how to make this possible, let me know! ;) If he already likes swimming, take him swimming as much as possible. Did your vet tell you what degree his hips were? I would do hip surgery before I did patella surgery. But, I think if you can avoid all surgeries.. you might be better off. Not to mention how incredibly expensive they are, but these paps just DONT do well under anesthesia. If your boy already has had problems, the last thing I would do would be to stick him back under. I'm interested in his hip problems since this isn't common of the breed. Anything you can tell me I'd greatly appreciate! Have you had his elbows checked? I think Colby might have elbow displasia, but I'm not even going to worry about that until we get out of the woods with the knee problems. lol I haven't heard of amputation for that... hmm.... I know it would break my heart to see Colby legless. :( I think you shouldn't worry about that yet. :) Keep Ripley happy and get him started on some supplements. You'd be surprised how well these guys get along in life! :) Please keep me updated! I feel your pain with you! I've been there and done that and watched them scream in pain, collapse, run with one leg in the air, all the while sobbing! LOL So, you have all of my support in the world.

Congratulations on bringing in a new dog! Good luck with your search! I'm relatively new here... so I'm not trying to take sides at all. I'm just adding some perspective. :) Anyway, I have 3 papillons and one lab/pit mix. Having large dogs and small dogs is not easy. :( My 8 pound papillon was BUMPED by my 65 pound lab/pit and it damaged his patella. I cannot stress how fragile these little dogs are. :( I also go to dog shows almost every weekend and am constantly seeing perfectly friendly dogs jump to play with a toy dog and severely hurt them. Even quiet older large dogs are still capable of hurting small dogs completely by accident. I never can allow my big dog to play with the toys. Even though she loves them and protects them, she forgets they weigh 3-8 pounds and sometimes a nudge with her nose sends them flying. I constantly am supervising their time together even if it's just sleeping. Had I realized how nerve wracking this is, I would have never brought my first papillon into the house. I have to say with my three toys, I wanted to stick them in my purse and cart them around also. LOL And as puppies, I got away with it! They loved it! As they got older and more of a personality, they hated being in a purse. They hated strangers ooo-ing and ahh-ing over them 24/7. :( They wanted to get on the ground and romp. I'm guilty of trying to dress them up and stick them in a bag to show off... let me tell you, the dog quickly tires of it and wants to be a dog. They want to pee on the mailbox post, and trample through the mud. ;) I think it's a very noble thing for you to do to bring in another rescue. :) I would just be extremely careful when you do bring one in. Would a sheltie be too big for your liking? They are still small, however they will hold up a lot more than a toy will if they're bumped during play. Good luck and I hope you find what your heart desires! Colleen, Colby, Gabe, Loki and Annie

Hello Everyone, :) I've been a member here for over a year now, but I just haven't found much time to post! This is an amazing site and I look forward to learning from you all! :) Anyway, I have 3 papillons, a lab/pit rescue and 5 cats. Getting back to my topic... My oldest Papillon has horrible patellas. Both knees were luxating at grade 2 and 3+ last March. We decided since he was so young (over a year) to get the surgery done. The first surgery was done May 2004. Big mistake! The surgery failed and both knees were not only still luxating, they now were moving inward and outward. (Where before it was only inward.) He was worse off than when we started! The surgery was preformed by a top notch Orthopedic Surgeon in our area. He was very upset with the outcome. He and his team decided to operate on my papillon again, this time free of charge, to see what had gone wrong. They found nothing that was obvious, and just tightened the ligaments. They did not need to cut into the bone like they had on the first surgery. Nearly 5 weeks later after the second surgery, I have a feeling our next check up (in 2 days) is going to bring bad news again. Colby, my dog, can't get up. He'll be lying down, go to stand and scream every single time he lifts his body from the ground. He's so stiff and so uncomfortable. This dog is a year and a half old, and I fear he might have to live with this forever. :( Generally, we're having to pick him up and set him upright just so he can walk. He's on all kinds of supplements. Glucosamine, Chondroiton, MSM, Salmon Oil, Vitamin C and Apple Cider Vinegar. We do heat therapy and hydrotherapy 2 times a week. He is still to be kept locked up in a crate or x-pen, but daily I let him out to stretch his legs a little. This seems to help with the stiffness. My question is... Has anyone ever heard of such a surgery going so poorly not once, but twice?! I'm wondering if I should take him to the nearest vet school and get him seen by another specialist for a second opinion. Is there anything else I could be doing to help him with the pain or stiffness? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Take care, Colleen, Colby, Gabe and Loki

I've been taking a lot of courses on dog nutrition lately, and more and more vets and people are realizing that dry dog food doesn't do a whole lot for cleaning the teeth. In some cases, it actually makes more of a problem! lol If you're concerned with clean teeth, your best bet is brushing them daily. :)

There's an amazing book called "Smarter Than You Think" and it's by Paul Loeb. You can find it on amazon.com or at your local bookstore. Let me tell you, I couldn't control my first papillon worth a darn until I bought this book. His methods work 100% of the time for me. Our recall -- which I find to be the most important thing -- never ever fails. When my gang (3 paps) and I are at the Bark Park, I can call each one of them to me without ever having to repeat myself. They could be in a pack of 200 dogs and as soon as they hear, "Come here!" they are by my side in an instant. People are so impressed and I've been recommending this book right and left. Our neighbor down the street with a Golden who used to run out the door EVERY SINGLE DAY (lol) is now a well behaved young gentleman. I have no tie-ins with the author etc. This is just by far the best training book I've ever come across and I think you might really benefit from it. :) Good luck with your baby!

[quote name='True_Pits']Why/how you picked the dog you got. [/quote] I have 3 papillons from a show breeder. The first I picked out of ignorance, and thought he was "cute." I love him to pieces and there will never be a dog that comes close to our bond, but he is a poor representation of the breed and has many health problems. (This was due to an outcrossing of the lines... that went horribly wrong and everyone realized it wasn't a good mix. lol) (However, for the breeders sake I will say both parents were nice dogs, health tested, temperament tested and more, the litter was just not what was expected.) The second I got the pick of the litter and chose for "show quality." He's now successfully showing and is my baby more importantly. The third I picked for my niece to show in Junior Showmanship. The puppy is turning out very nicely and will also be shown in regular conformation classes. [quote] How important was pedigree? Bloodline? Breeding? [/quote] For my first papillon, it didn't mean anything to me. The second it meant a lot. The third it didn't mean as much. [quote] How did you finally choose the breeder? [/quote] I had been actively searching for a show breeder with available puppies who temperament tested and health tested his breeding stock. Finally found one who was willing to part with a puppy, generous with knowledge, and loved his dogs. [quote] What drew you to the dog? Include any story/info about the dog you'd like. [/quote] My first Papillon, Colby, was one of 2 in a litter. I got the first pick and in my ignorance decided to go for the flashier coloring. I didn't at the time know to check for temperament, or structure. Nearly 2 years later I am dealing with horrible luxating patellas (that have been operated on 2 times!), elbow problems, skin allergies and a fear of people (except of course me). Let me tell you, nothing in the world would ever make me part with this monstrosity of a pap. ;) He is the love of my life! :D My second Papillon, Gabriel, was one out of 4 in a litter. I had more options with this litter, was smart enough to ask more questions, and saw both parents. Parents were both champions, had their health tests done, and their temperaments were fantastic. :) I picked the smaller out of the bunch, one with a really nice head and movement, and to my luck, he's turned out the nicest in the litter! He and I are now showing and having a ball on the weekends. My third Papillon, Loki, was one out of 3 in a litter. The smaller female already was going to be used in their showing/breeding program. So, I picked the only male because he had what seemed to be the best temperament and was very sound. We're also showing him on the weekends. :) He absolutely loves it.

Hi everyone! I'm a long time lurker... But I don't post very often. I love to read what everyone has to say though. :) I've learned so much! I hope someone can help me out with my problem. First, I'll give you a little background on my dog. I have a 4 year old Lab/Pit mix named Annie. She was rescued from our local SPCA and we've had her since she was around 10-12 weeks old or so. I *THOUGHT* I socialized her well when she was younger. She lived with many cats, had contact with kids, and played with many dogs... not to mention met tons of new people, taken too all kinds of places, been in many different kinds of situations and spent little time alone. Annie was crate trained as a puppy and young dog, but as she got older, I didn't see a reason to continue with it as she's content and well behaved in the house. Annie lives with 5 cats and 2 other dogs (both papillons) and my father and I in a house. She is well trained. Knows every kind of command you can think of. I just can't get her out of this aggression thing. Maybe you all have some suggestions or help... I'm getting DESPERATE! Within the past two years, she's changed. I can't trust her with strangers. She's become dog aggressive and has dominance issues with humans. Not so much her family, but other people she may know, she still tries to dominate them. She's excellent with our papillons, but when she's on a leash and sees another dog, she's INSANE. I try using her commands like "Annie, Heel." or "Annie, sit!" She growls and her hackles go up and she LUNGES on the leash towards the dog. When does interact with dogs offleash she is very dominate. She WILL fight another dog that doesn't back down to her. But as long as they are submissive, she plays and is happy. With humans, it's a little different. If she is on a leash and someone goes to pet her, she gets in a very submissive pose... often lying on her back and tucking her tail... but then if their face gets near hers, she growls and snarls and QUICKLY bops them hard with her nose. Like a threat to bite. Needless to say, I don't allow anyone to put their face near hers anymore. Occasionally, she even growls at people at a distance just because they look "funny". If someone walks differently, or is tall, or is larger... she gets aggressive. On Halloween, she did the worst thing possible though... she lunged at our neighbor's child. She didn't put her teeth on him, but nailed him SO HARD in the face with hers. THANK GOD our neighbors are friends of ours and they weren't upset. Their son is around 12 so I don't think he'll be scarred by it. But it gave me a heart attack. I was so ANGRY at her. I smacked her pretty hard which is unlike me but I was at a loss for whatelse to do. Usually we handle the situation (as best as we can) with a shake of a can filled with pennies, a command such as sit or heel, or breaking the eye contact and making her "work". All food bribes are useless when she is acting weird... She has no interest in food... only in what she's glaring down. Often times we just have to remove her from the situation. But I want to get it so I don't have to. Or is that impossible? Can ANYONE help?! My dad has threatened to send her back to the SPCA, we cannot have an aggressive dog and I'd never let him do that, so he's told ME to move out! LOL But I can't do that either at this point anyway. My dad loves Annie but we all are afraid of her behaving like this! Who's to say the next time she doesn't bite a child? Ending this post/rant/plead for help on a good note, Annie is sweet and loving to the family. She's an excellent guard dog (duh? ;)) and she is amazing with our papillons and cats. She's well behaved and incredibly smart, knowing over 100 different words and commands. HELP PLEASE!!! :cry: -Colleen