Guest Anonymous Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 hey, i went to the pound today on my way home from work to play with the dogs. i swear i have never seen so many sweet pit bulls and so many nasty purebreds and mixed breeds in all the times i've been there. there was also a "catahoula leopard dog/great dane cross", sweet dog did not look great dane to me but what do i know :) anyway, there were several really really nice "pit bull" puppies, you all who love pit bulls would be very sad to know there were about twenty or so of them in there and all except maybe two were friendly and nice. now i know i have to wait a few years before adding another dog but i'm just wondering, can you get a pit bull as a puppy and raise it with other dogs and have them be fine, or is that a bad idea for some reason ? i've heard the racket about them and have read your all's posts, i'm just curious about my idea......there was one little girl, must have been ten weeks, thin as a rail, really bad front feet, eye problems, sores all over, beautiful cinnamon brown with black eye liner... she was so sad looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 "Pit bulls" can grow up with other dogs fine, especiall if raised from puppy hood with others. THe problems arise basically because with dog there is a strict ranking system and with some breeds its just a brief squabble, or even just a stare-down, the problem comes in because ABPTs and most of the bully breeds dont stand down to a challenge, not to say the strut up like king of all they surveym but if another dog tries to dominate you better believe a fight is going to break out, if the owners are nearby to stop it immediately. There is no hot cold system with them most dogs you can look at and tell what is happening. With the bully breeds they actually enjoy fighting, its what they were bred to do, and often they are wagging thier tails and happy as all he-- when they do it. That is why people should not rush into get a bully breed. As a pup you can train and socialize this out of them but you have to have them out there where they can meet other dogs. Some people think that by never letting their dog get close to another dog they are helping actually what you are doing is making it that much more certain that you dog is going to react in a bad way when it finally does interact with another. Sorry, im going off subject... Yes you can have a "pitbull" with other dogs Most times you a better off with a female though, so try to keep that in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 thanks you all, it was just something i was curious about, there were so many of them at the pound.........i think from what you have said that if i got one eventually it and dresden would probably have big problems as she is very pushy with other dogs........thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 It really depends on a lot of things. Never ever keep a pitbull(Am.staff,ApBT or BYB apbt) alone with any dog unsupervised. next if you have a female dog then you have to get a male and vice versa most same sex Apbt's will not get along even if raised together once they mature you will have problems,they may be fine and get jealouse over a ball or another toyand generally a fight will break out. If you get a puppy from the pound or a rescue it is most likely a BYB Apbt they can be extensively socialized and they will get along fine with other dogs but if they are ever challenged you must assume that they will not back down. Most Showbred Apbt's and American Staffordshire terriers are less dog agressive than gamebred Apbt's but with a rescue you will not know their background. If you get a puppy you will not know untill it is fully grown. If you get an adult you will see right away. Then general rule is never trust a Bulldog(APBT)not to fight. That is what they were bred for.You can train known fighting dogs to ignore other dogs on walks but if they come close enough you will have trouble. Pitbulls should never be taken to dog parks,they should never be left unsupervised with other animals,They need lots of socialization,They should not be a childs pet(they can be a family dog)They make poor guard dogs,They are a target of theft,People will run when they see your dog,The neighbors and your family will tell you that it will eat you or your kids(not true you must take those with thick skin).They need lot's of exercise and toys(Springpoles,long walks,treadmills etc..) They are strong and you must have a breaking stick and know how to use it. Some good points are: They have a very high pain tolerance which means they are extremely tolerant of children doing things to them(no dog of any breed should be left alone with small children) They have short hair which means very little grooming(although they do shed all year round and need to be kept inside during the temperature extremes) They are very smart easy to train and submissive(for the most part)with their owners. They make a good Watch dog if you want a dog that will deter criminals but not bite. e-mail me at [email][email protected][/email] if you want I breed them and I would be happy to answer your questions. Also check out [url]http://www.forpitssake.org[/url] and you will find lots of info and even a message board of very knowledgable pet pitbull owners and many of them have multiple recue dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulDodger Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I have to agree with K on this one. A female pitbull is by no means any less agressive than a male. In fact in my experience (I've had 3 females and 2 males) every time it has been the female that is the more dog aggreesive one not the male. My friends report the same thing. My bitch at the moment is the typical human loving pitbull but she hates strange dogs with a passion. My male and her get along because he's been around since he was a pup and she knows he is here to stay, but as soon as she meets a strange dog she turns into the howling, snarling dog that pits can be when they really want to get at something. I stress tho that she LOVES people and she can be taught to curb here aggression once she knows a dog. I like to introduce her to friends dogs through the gate, they sniff each other for an hour or so and then, depending on the receptioon we allow them to meet under strict supervision. My males tho have all been very tolerant and even loving of strange dogs. I can't recomend a bull breed enough as a pet tho, I think they are wonderful breeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 This is in the vein of a nature verses nurture question...I greatly beleive in nature...pitbulls can be scrappy dogs, as can any terrier. I see a lot of terrier personality in mine...her "talent" for catching moles, for instance. Her constant digging. Her boundless energy. She is fine with any dog that is overly dominant. However, a new dog, or a dog that doesn't immediately try to dominate her, she will try to start a fight with. My littlest dog can make her cower (and she's at least twice as tall as the little one!) but the second smallest one, she will bully if given a chance--she will prevent her from walking anywhere or doing anything, so they are never left alone together--they were playing just fine the other day, when out of the blue, it was almost a fight. She meets most dogs just fine regarding they run up to meet her, a rather forward move. She stared down a rottweiler (he must have weighed over a hundred pounds) and tried to attack a shepherd mix, and they both greeted her calmly. She's had this attitude since she was little...getting an itsy bitsy pup from the pound could end up a mistake...an older pup, like around six months, would have his personality pretty well in place and you would be able to judge how aggressive he is. I know of an owner whose dog, at eight weeks, would hang onto a bigger dog's throat...when he got to be a year old, he was out-and-out trying to kill other dogs...don't think you can train nature out of a dog...some apbt's are aggressive and some aren't, the mistakes are made when someone gets an aggressive puppy and beleives they can love the aggressiveness out of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 all these people forget to tell you that the reason pit bulls are dog agressive is because they lead it on (the owners) if any of you pit bull breeders so called no about game dogs and your posting that no matter how you raise them they will be dog agressive that is totally untrue I am a dog trainer for problem dogs I raise and breed pit bulls. and have met LOTS of breeders and I see how they treat them they keep them on chains (log) feed them alot less , hardley interact them with other dogs , and make a noise like (Skkkkskkk) for there dogs to watch other dogs , my pit bulls are fine they are together all the time , I can take them with me anywhere . and yes they are Game pit bulls. so it really ticks me off seeing someone say pit bulls shouldnt go into parks are be kids pets or treat them like there a different kind of dog all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 APBTs and Bully breeds in general are different than most breeds of dog. And noone her treats thier dogs like that it kind TICKS ME OFF for you to incinuate such things when you dont know us our practices or our dogs. Only someone that doesnt know much about the breed would be so nochalant about as to think that you situation is anything but rare. The breed standar for these dogs calls for dog-dog agression. It not our doing its the nature of the breed (BOTH SEXES). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Is this what you guys mean by TROLL. The audacity to say that i would even jokingly urge my dog to act in an agressive way really getsunder my skin. I know what i have and I treat them as such. It burns me up to think that you would be so moronic as to think that just because your dog live inside with you there is some for of magic that eliminates agression. Many people live inside with thier Bullys and they are still agressive, growing up with dogs is no insurace either. I have heard many times of dogs that grew up together going at each others throats becasue of a game of fetch where one felt it should have the ball. APBT are a no nonsense breed if ANY dog challenges them they usually respond by fighting full-force. So your first incident may actually be your only incident because they fight to near death or until you step in whichever comes first. Try to remeber what they were bred for before you make such comments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 The reason they keep them on heavy logging chains is because they break the other ones trying to get loose and fight the other dogs and if they do break them and get loose they will most likely kill one another and the owner will come home to one if not two dead dogs.They do not keep them in kennel runs because they are not reliable enough these dogs are smart and they are game remember the are going to keep trying to get out no matter what no matter what the pain(nails sore and bleeding,broken teeth etc..)and they can eat through chain link I have seen it before they will find a way out to get the other dog and then you will have 1-2 dead dogs they cannnot keep them in the house they will eat through the doors(please keep in mind I am talking about gamebred dogs not show bred or backyard bred dogs). They can jump fences even six foot ones if they really want to .I have seen12 week old pups tear each other apart(they were littermates and were seperated after this incident) so it is not because they were raised to fight. Trying to say that this breed is not dog agressive is a very big mistake someones pet could die because of you ignorance. If you breed them than who are you what is your kennel name? I would like to know so I can tell peple to steer clear of you. You probably have staffs anyways.I reccomend that they are not childs pets because they are not the kind of dog you need to let your 8-11 year old be walking down the street alone someone could beat them up and steal the dog or the dog could be attacked by another dog and the Apbt will no doubt be grabbing on and holding on and the child is supposed to get in between?Sounds irresponsible to me. I did say that they are good family pets did I not?They are not labradors or poodles so don't make them out to be one. On another note you say that your dogs are game do you mean Gamebred?from game bloodlines. Or do you mean game? If they are Game then you must mean that they were game tested or rolled in other words faught and dog fighting is illegal.If they are not tested then you have no way of knowing if they are game they could be gamebred however but if they are not at all dog agressive I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooeydog Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 [quote name='Anonymous']all these people forget to tell you that the reason pit bulls are dog agressive is because they lead it on (the owners) if any of you pit bull breeders so called no about game dogs and your posting that no matter how you raise them they will be dog agressive that is totally untrue I am a dog trainer for problem dogs I raise and breed pit bulls. and have met LOTS of breeders and I see how they treat them they keep them on chains (log) feed them alot less , hardley interact them with other dogs , and make a noise like (Skkkkskkk) for there dogs to watch other dogs , my pit bulls are fine they are together all the time , I can take them with me anywhere . and yes they are Game pit bulls. so it really ticks me off seeing someone say pit bulls shouldnt go into parks are be kids pets or treat them like there a different kind of dog all together.[/quote] Sooo... you obviously have gametested your dogs, if you're so sure that they're game, right? But of course, you don't encourage dog aggression in your dogs, right? That's a [i]really[/i] amusing concept :lol: . The reason many pit bulls are dog aggressive is because the "breed" (including APBTs and to a lesser extent AmStaffs in this case) was selectively bred for over a century for fighting... not trained. The drive to fight is in many of them, the same as the drive to retrieve/carry is in most retrievers. It may never manifest, or not be as obvious in some cases, but it's almost always there. How do you, a "knowledgeable pit bull breeder, and problem dog trainer", explain away the pit bulls that are raised from birth in a loving environment, with tons of socialization, then at the "magic age" (usually 1-3 yrs) suddenly start displaying dog aggression. These dogs have never been goaded on by their owners, but are acting merely upon instinct. Similarly, how do you explain the dogs that have been beaten, fought, etc, yet still are not outwardly dog aggressive? It all comes down to genetics, some have innate dog aggression, some don't, and some have a varying degree of dog aggression. Pit bull owners should know not to let their dogs loose in dog parks, because if even the slightest incident occurs, their dog will be blamed, and may ultimately be killed because of their owners stubborness/ignorance. Even if the pit bull won't start a fight, most also won't back down if they're caught up in one, which can lead to serious/fatal injuries to the other dogs. Children are, in most cases, not suitable owners for pit bulls... they are not responsible enough, and not strong enough to restrain their dog or break up a fight should one occur. It's foolish at best to tell people that pit bulls are "just like any other dog", because they're not, and rumors like that cause as much damage to the breeds as the "lockjaw" and "turning" myths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooeydog Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Marble, if you do decide you want an APBT, you're best chance at getting a non-reactive one is to go through a reputable rescue and get an adult or young adult. Dog aggression usually shows between 1 & 3 yrs, so by 2-3 yrs you should be able to get a good idea of what you could be dealing with. If you're really interested in the little pup at the shelter right now, why not see if you can foster her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I dont think that they are monsters but deep inside every bully breed there is the heart of a killer. No matter how sweet and loving your dog is with you or even other dogs, there is always that urge and it takes training, and socialization, and a strong bond with your dog for it to not give in to the fight instinct. Better than never trust your dog to fight is Trust your dog to kill, because that is what its going to try to do. Most dogs will squabble but when one loses drive and submitss there is just a lot of posturing and pissing, not so with a Bully, if the other dog can move the fights not over. There are stories of APBTs having to be pryed off of the dead dogs body. The drive is high in them is so high that they can excite themselves they dont need a owner that sics them on stuff. Thats why we need to curb thier aggression not train it higher, its already astronomical!! Guest it really bothers me that you are so comfortable about your dog, you probably let them out in a fenceless yard with out a leach on too huh? Why not, nothings happened before... That should be considered animal abuse in my eyes, because you are basically sentencing your dog to death if something does happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooeydog Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 K, our yard is unfenced... my dad started putting up a fence (5 ft) about 6 yrs ago, thinking that Goo would be able to run supervised in it for exercise... of course halfway through the building process we found that she had no problem clearing a 6 1/2 fence, so he put the fence on hold for a few years (he meant to get taller fence). The neighbors we have now have claimed about 10 ft of our yard for their own, so we have to get a surveyor to come and tell them where their yard [i]really[/i] ends before we can put up another fence. These are the same neighbors who let their people aggressive sharpei and lab run loose, even though they've been picked up by AC once and been asked by us several times to keep them in their own yard. We do have part of the yard fenced, a garden (3 1/2 ft fence), and a little yard for my grandparents dog (4 1/2 ft). I don't really know if we'll ever get a good fence up, since we have water on two sides (if the dog really wanted something, it could jump over and swim around the fence), and the housing boards would likely jump on us for "blocking the view" for others :roll: if we put a privacy fence in front of the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I do not think they are monsters you must however understand their wants and desires and how they are bred. Yes I have seen two get along actually I have seen a bitch with newborn puppies in the same house in the same room with her two sons (8 months old) the sire of the litter and another unrelated bitch but that is the exception not the rule. Not every pitbull will tear through a chain link fecne or eat through a door but it does happen some of them have done it so you have to be aware. Like I said it depends a great deal on how they are bred as well. Yes I do have some Gamebred dogs and yes they are like that they are Not game because they have not been tested and they will not be I just am a fan of the bloodlines and the traits of the Gambred ones as well as the showbred ones. I also have showbred ones but I do not have Am.staffs and I do not believe in mixing the two. The reason I have both is that I realize that the general public has no need for a dog that tries to eat every dog it sees so mostly the Gambred dogs are for me personally. The showbred dogs can also be dog agressive but they are usually friendly unless the other dog tries to start something or dominate them but I will never trust any of them 100% around other animals the inner drive is just to strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooeydog Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 It's not [i]big[/i], but it's pretty big for this area, I'm guessing the backyard (the part we'd be fencing in) is 100' wide and 300' long, maybe a little bigger. Our property is layed out a little strange though... our house is up closest to the road, then we have a parking area that fits several cars, then my grandparents' house, then the backyard, so the backyard is about 200 ft back from the road. There's a driveway that runs alongside our property up to the backyard, then turns, so the neighbors are right next to our backyard. (Not sure if any of that made sense.) The fence we need is probably similar to what you have, but if we were to fence all four sides, we'd need two big gateways (car size) and at least two smaller ones. We would probably only do the two sides that don't have water surrounding them, but I don't know how well that would work, as far as keeping the dogs in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roo Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 [quote name='laduenda'] I have seen a bitch with newborn puppies in the same house in the same room with her two sons (8 months old) .[/quote] I always feel so very sorry for bitches who just pump out pups, Not even a rest of a season between litters :x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Your right about her needing rest. The "Story" they told me was that she was being contained in the pool fence and the male was kept on the other side of the pool fence and somehow they did it through the bars :roll: But it sounded like a story to me so I never believed it but my point was that some of them can get along. :agrue: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I know of an "act" being commited by two dogs through a chain link kennel. It was a golden and a GSD. So it can happen, there are few things that can deter a dog that is searching, and a APBT thats searching is twice as hard to stop. A friend of mine has a small red-nosed female that climbs fences, but not the conventional way of jumping up and clmbing over. she actually puts her paws in the holes and climbs to the top and then just hops over and thumps to the ground. The first time we saw her do this she was in the back yard behind a 6' fence, and we were playing football in the front yard. she didnt like us roughing up her dad and was coming to let us know, thank god we noticed her before she got to the top. he then had to improvise and add onto the top a of the fence so that it was 7' and the top of is leaned inward. that stopped her from coming over, so she decided to go under... As you can see this guy wasnt the best dog owner he ust kind of let her run in the back all day and sleep in the house al night so she had to keep herself busy. Future owners... for your and your dogs well being DO NOT let the occupy themselves, give them something to do!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulDodger Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 I have game bred dogs specifically because, although they are predominantly family pets, they also get used for pig hunting. When i choose a pup or young adult, I take my time and go for the quieter, less domineering ones. I don't go for the best looking in the litter, I look purely at the dog's interaction skills. If the dog is game bred but can control itself around other dogs it doesn't mean the dog is a failure as a game dog, it just means he has more self control than the dog that explodes into action as soon as it gets a sniff of another dog. I need game dogs for pigging, they also need to be able to get along in a pack environment. I think you can pick a dog's personality quite accurately if you know exactly what to look for. My dog reggie is a quiet dog who plays with other intact males he meets on walks. I chose him after watching the litter for about 4 hours, some of his littermates were dog aggresive already so I went for him. Now, when he's on a pig, you can see that he is as GAME as any dog aggresive gamebred pit but once I've removed him from the pig and he has settled down knowing the hunt is over, he can lie quietly beside his huntingmates without fear of a fight. I have a mate who has a very dog aggresive pit that he uses for pigging too. I refuse to go out with him now because once the hunt is over his dog wants to fight with mine and mine never back down from a challenge. I need game dogs that can get along with other dogs. You can use this gameness for all sorts of things, it doesn't have to be for fighting. The thing you must always have in the back of your mind though is that bull breeds do love a good scrap and they are, as a rule, dominant type dogs, it's an unavoidable fact of life.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowie-the-Pooh Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 [quote name='K']I can not imagine [i]not[/i] having a fence you see.....[/quote] Me niether K! We have a wall, not a fence though...Love the privacy :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Hi, I have a question if someone could answer it for me I would appreciate it. Right now my pitbull ash is about 10 months old. I have moved around alot since I got her. She is my first pitbull. When she was a puppy she was around small dogs(poodle size and smaller). Then I moved back with my mother she has two labs. My dog felt the urge to fight with these 70-80pound labs. at this time she was only 4-6 months old. Then I moved in with my girlfriend her parents. They had a german shepard and a rott chow mix. The shepard died of heartworm but my dog would pick fights with this dog that doubles her weight. Her and the rott chow still get in fights but they are over quick because he is afraid of my dog. Now with this said I will get to the point. She doesn't have any problems with dogs that are littleir than she is strange or not it doesn't matter she rolls right over on her back showing submission. If their is any dog within a hundred yards that is her size or bigger it takes all I have to hold her away from it. I'm not afraid she will get hurt but afraid she will hurt someone else's pet that just wanted to play. She also likes cats. I want to know if this is normal behavior? The person I bought her form told me that her dad is top and bottom Jeep, and her mom is bottom Jeep and another kind of pit bull I don't remember. Could you tell me what this means I would appreciate it. Thank You Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 SOunds to me like your dog has a dominance complex, smaller dogs are okay because they are not a threat to her prowess but the dogs he size or bigger she feels the need to assert herself. What sucks is that you have let this happen for long enought that it will be quite difficult to curb, i say curb because its not possible to stop it but you can save yourself from being dragged everytime a dog goes by. Start by getting your dog to pay attention to you do this in the house without any distractions. Then after you get good start at a park with dogs in the distance the instant you notice her looking call her name or get her to look at you if she does praise her like crazy, gradualy you can move closer and closer to the distrations i wouldnt reccomend putting her face to face with another dog though she sounds a little too aggressive for that. but you should be albe to at least get her to stop draggin you araound. Good luck. :black: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Jeep refers to Crenshaws CH.Jeep who was a fighting ch. not a show ch. if her dad was Jeep on top and bottom it means that her dad was bred heavily off of that line meaning both of his parents were out of that line.line=Bloodline, and her dam was half Jeep.Jeep is a gamebred bloodline and Gamebreds are generally Dog agressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Thanks for the info. I was also thinking about breeding her. I wanted to breed here once. Then get her spayed. I was wondering if I should or shouldn't do this. The dog I was planning on breeding her to has Dangerfield/Jeep lines. But after this I was wondering if I should just get her spayed instead of letting her have a litter. If I do breed her I have people that will take the pups as soon as their old enough. They want pups from her because of how good she is with people. She has never showed any aggression at all with people. Won't play with kids just lick the crude out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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