Jump to content
Dogomania
Sign in to follow this  
Guest Anonymous

Advice about shipping animals

Recommended Posts

Guest roo
If you have anything worth saying here then please say it.
I don't suppose the money is worth the heartache to 99.9 per cent of breeders

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous
[b]Roo[/b] I'm not making light of what happened. I agree it was a terrible thing to do.

Also, I don't live in England, so I don't know what the laws are there concerning such things. Here, I'm sure the forgery could be prosecuted, but I don't think the lies about the intended purposes could be, unless there was some kind of written contract specifically stating that he could not take the dogs out of the country or sell them to people who would take them out of the country.

[quote]It is a very serious matter, maybe when your dog auctions get underway, and the question "have you got a fenced garden "occurs, and you then realise that 45+ plus dogs have been shipped out to another counrty, lets say Japan as you said they are kept like pigs or chickens for th dinner table, you will then say oh well sucha nice sort of person, wanted a dear pet, oops he has purchased 45+ from me and sent them elsewhere. Never mind ****happens. I think not[/quote]

I don't sell dogs or any other animal. The only thing I do is provide a place for buyers and sellers to interact. I have no control over individual transactions except to allow them or stop them.

However, both the buyer and seller should print the auction page with the descriptions and terms. Since a bid is a contract, the auction states the terms, and can be used in court to show fraudulent intent if either party fails to follow through with the terms.

But, to me this event is still a little 'gray' because the breeders did SELL the dogs -and the dogs ceased to be their property. I'm just not sure they could convince a judge that they should retain any sort of custodial interest in where the dogs are taken by the new owner. If they wanted to retain continual control over where the dogs went, they should've [i]leased[/i] them.

I must say also, that I own 3 dogs -and other animals. If I had to move to Japan tomorrow, I'd do my very best to take every one of them with me. They are my animals, and I'm committed to their care. I wouldn't expect the previous owners of any of them to suddenly decide they didn't want "their" animal to go....they gave up that 'right' when they gave up the animal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest roo
Reality,
Please, if you were to go to japan with your 3 dogs that is a totally different matter, you have had your dogs a long time prior to moving,
When one of my pups leave, i take the measures of endorsing them, not for export, not to have litters registered to them, this cant stop them being exported with false papers, I do have a young man that i have bred who's family maybe going to canada to live, the difference is , I am aware of that, I them will take the endorsement off him. If you are going to auction and export dogs. then you will become the dealer. it will not take long in the dog world for your name to be known, then in not such a long time you will find it very hard to get decently breed dogs.
I'm sorry but you must be prepared to take on such reponsibilitys if you are prepared to go down this auction line. Then who will be in the Grey area? :cry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous
[b]Roo[/b] I am [i]agreeing[/i] with you.

I don't think it was the right for this buyer to do; the 'grayness' I speak of is the legality. Once again, I don't live in England, and don't know how those laws work. But here, you would have to have a contract with the buyer stating that the dogs could not be exported. Without that, I think you'd be SOL. But that doesn't make it right.

[quote] If you are going to auction and export dogs. then you will become the dealer. it will not take long in the dog world for your name to be known, then in not such a long time you will find it very hard to get decently breed dogs. [/quote]

I don't sell dogs! I don't breed dogs! I don't export dogs! I don't even [i]see[/i] dogs that are for sale! I don't even negotiate the sales of dogs; nor do I act as a broker. The only thing I do is maintain a website which allows sellers to advertise dogs and accept bids, and which allows buyers to place bids on dogs they want to buy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest roo
Reality,
I know you agree with me on some points.
What I am saying is if you are prepared to allow dogs to be auctioned on YOUR SITE, then you must be prepared to be held responsible, as it would at the end of the day ALL be down to you allowing animals to be auctioned on your site. You must agree with me on this one?
Roo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous
I would only [i]legally[/i] be responsible if someone auctioned something illegal, and I allowed it.

But morally I [i]feel[/i] responsible for making sure transactions are carried out in a way that's satisfactory to everyone. If I were as big as e-bay, I wouldn't be able to keep track of it, and would have to rely solely on other people reporting experiences and problems to me. But as I'm just starting (only opened it a month ago), I'm currently able to watch every auction as it proceeds, and can communicate with either party if neccesary.

Also, I've written a "help" page detailing the things I think are most important for both buyers and sellers. I'm sure it's not complete, and that I'll have to edit it many times to make sure all the information someone needs is available. Then, there are no excuses for either party to claim I'm responsible...or irresponsible.

Of course...that's why I came here seeking advice! The only reason I've been willing to tolerate the abuse I've received is because it's important to me, and I want my customers on both sides of any transaction to be happy with the way it works.

Of course, I don't really believe there will ever be many animals posted. To be truthful, the procedures and costs for shipping and screening are pretty intense. I've looked at other auctions that allow animals, and there are generally very few listings. It's just not a popular venue for them. I expect there will be far more in the way of pet supplies, tack and livestock equipment, bee-keeping equipment and such than live animals.

I think allowing of pets brings in a curious psychological ploy. It's well known (here in the US) that two gas stations on opposite corners will both make more money than either one of them would've alone. I expect that people reading through the headlines (Amazon Parrot; Blue Macaw, Young Green Parakeet) will suddenly be reminded they want a bigger bird cage for their own little budgie...and will do a search for just that. I believe this, because I've done it my own self.

There are people making thousands of dollars every month selling pet-related supplies on auctions, and of course breeders make up a large part of the market. I think after working to write all the descriptions and post all the listings they may stick around and post bids for equipment they see. It's a great venue for anyone selling leashes, dog beds, puppy biscuits and toys. And, unlike E-Bay, I allow those who do this to post links to their own websites; so if a breeder refuses to use the auction to list animals, s/he can still advertise his/her own site on listings for equipment.

In the end, allowing animals may become a real pain in the ass. I may end up having problems with those who simply cannot read the directions or follow the rules, and end up having to stop allowing them at all.

But, I'm going to give it a try. There are other sites doing this successfully, and I'm willing to give it a fair chance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest roo
Reality,
I don't feel I have given you any abuse, and you certainly haven't given me any, yes we both have different views, I understand that you feel you want to give it a try, please let us know how it goes. :lol:
Ruth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous
:D No, [b]Roo[/b] the abuse has not come from you!

I am a real animal lover, and I would never allow harm to come to any creature if I'm able to prevent it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gizmo, I hate to disagree, and this isn't aimed at Reality, personally, or a direct response to the auctioning, but if dogs weren't mass produced in mills and backyards, there would be no need to find them homes. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HorseFeathers I agree but still there isn't a dang thing we can do except fix our pets and tell people about the VERY BIG problem with the mass production of unwanted pups....but still all these pets are getting a home with transporting animals....I disagree with actioning them but I cant do anything..............

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous
Thanks, [b]GizmoRedNosePit[/b] for being the only person to say something really positive about the whole concept!

I do believe part of the problem with backyard breeders is lack of education. I don't think they realise how big their responsibility is; and how difficult it can be to find homes for unwanted puppies -particularly mixed breeds.

Part of the fault I think lies with people who make well-meaning comments that they don't intend to follow through on. Just like when someone makes the polite statement that "We'll get together soon" without meaning it, too many people say things like "If she has puppies I want one..." and they don't mean that either.

A neighbor had a bunch a few months ago, and told me they were "all spoken for" when they born...and then only one person actually took one home. He had to find homes for the rest.

Since he didn't want the puppies himself, he shouldn't have had the dog bred.

By the time someone has to pay for an auction or a classified or anything else, it's a little too late.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:D Well thanks but it's the truth form my eyes....

As long as they are shipped responsibly and not sit in the heat or cold....and they have something to comfort them or something....I know that things like that can be stressful on animals of all types...but imagine how many people fly with their pets every day! As long as they are comfortable thats all that I care and they make it to the new home....

:lol: Auctioning IS VERY BAD.....but look behind that part and you will see this pet whether it is an old abused dog or an abandoned puppy or an Ex fighting dog...so be it... They are going to places where people will love them and not chain them up.....

The pets need to be taken somewhere or they will die....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm sorry if I'm affending someone or everyone....but the way i see is if they fix the dogs or animals whatever....then they will not make more...and if they make sure the owners that are getting the pets are Good Owners to have these great beasts then everything should be ok....J

Just remeber that they need homes just like the ones in the newspaper ads, on the internet. What about Kennels that sell their puppies..... They still have to ship them.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous
As far as I've been able to learn, shipping is usually very sane and safe. The individual airlines have different methods of course, but for the most part they are treated well.

There are airlines that only handle animals -especially big ones like cows and horses. They have the planes fitted with all kinds of special equipment for livestock. I was really surprised -I've never heard of that before.

Food & water is kept available, and usually an attendant keeps an eye on them until they're picked up.

I'm advising my sellers to make sure they can turn completely around and lie down in the kennel/crate, have a familiar toy or blanket, not to send them during bad (too hot or too cold) weather (either where they are or where they're going) and to double-check that the new owner knows where to pick them up so they won't have to wait any longer at the airport than neccesary.

Of course, they all have to be seen by a vet before they go anywhere, so the vet can make specific recommendations for sedation, or airsickness or anything like that.

Since most flights are just a hour-long hop or two, I don't think it will generally be too bad.

People travel with pets a lot -more really than I ever thought. It would be ideal of course if someone went with each animal, but I realise that will usually be out of the question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

Announcements

×
×
  • Create New...