Silver Labrador Retrievers...

[Guest Anonymous]

This is absurd! Silver labrador retrievers! They are creating a terrible color out of our chocolates! They say they are AKC registered as 'silver' labs. This is not true. They have to be registered as chocolates. What is the lab world coming to?

Response of Jack Norton of the AKC on 1/24/00 giving AKC official position on the issue of Silver Labs.

The registry of the American Kennel Club is based on parentage and not the coat color of a member of any breed.

In 1987 the AKC, in corporation with the Labrador Retriever Club of America, conducted an inquiry into the breeding of litters that contained members that were registered as silver. An AKC representative was sent to observe these dogs. The report and color photographs of these dogs were reviewed by AKC staff and representatives of the Labrador Retriever Club of America. Both Parties were satisfied that there was no reason to doubt that the dogs were purebred Labrador Retrievers, however they felt that the dogs were incorrectly registered as silver. Since the breed standard at the time described chocolate as ranging in shade form sedge to chocolate, it was felt that the dogs could more accurately be described as chocolate rather than silver. This remains the current policy of the American Kennel Club.

The silver coat color has been recorded in early writings about Labradors.

False. There is no record of "silver", "gray" or any other color that could be construed as silver between 1878 and 1948 (i.e. the early history of the breed) in the breed stud books. [b]Reportedly, a Norwegian Elkhound cross was performed sometime in the 1940s [/b]which coincides with subsequent European reports of "silver" Labradors appearing in some lines during the 1950s and 1960s (see below for more information).

Are there silver Labs?
This is one of the most common questions voiced by the public. Commonly the answer is provided that " the silver Labrador is not a Labrador at all because it is a product of crossbreeding (interbreeding)." This statement may hold both truth and fiction.

So, what of silver? Given the fact that much inbreeding was performed during the early history of the breed because of the small gene-pool, expression of the silver trait would have occurred at least frequently enough for someone to take note of its existence. This was, indeed, the case with the expression of the "black and tan" trait. Early history cites cases of puppies born with tan points (as found in Dobermans, Rottweilers, etc.). This trait was attributed to early interbreeding with Gordon Setters. There is no record, however, of silver Labs or any similar color documented in the stud books spanning the years 1878 to at least 1948 (though other color oddities are documented). This strongly suggests that the silver color is not a color that was present (indigenous) in the early ancestors of the Labrador breed. Therefore, the color must have been introduced sometime after the 1940s. The instances of silver Labs appearing, albeit rarely, in litters from the general population that bear no common ancestors within several or more generations suggests that the gene has been in the population for quite a few decades (This does not necessarily rule out the possibility of more recent interbreeding to purposely achieve or increase frequency of expression of the color). As such, possibilities for the origin of the silver gene may include, but are not limited to the following: 1) a spontaneous gene mutation, or [b]2) mid-history introduction of the silver gene through interbreeding with a breed carrying the silver gene. [/b]

Mary Roslin-Williams, in her book All About the Labrador, describes a prime example of this, which may have direct implications regarding the origin of the silver Lab phenotype. In her book, she makes reference to a Norwegian Elkhound/ Labrador crossbreeding occurring in the 1940s, as well as to Pointer/Labrador crossbreedings occurring in some field lines. Generally speaking, one may recognize why frequent, widespread crossbreeding, especially in inexperienced hands could cause considerable problems within any breed. However, not all instances of this practice should be viewed negatively.

A final word on the silver coloration:
The origin of the silver coloration in Labradors remains uncertain at this time. [b]For the AKC to recognize the silver coloration, the parent club would first have to rewrite the standard and vote to accept the silver coloration. For the first of these situations to happen, the silver Lab would have to gain support among a number of its parent club members (as the yellow coloration once had its enthusiastic supporters back in England during the early days of the breed). [/b]This scenario is most likely not to happen in the near future. As such, breeders, either established or novice, who may consider breeding for silver will most likely find many doors closed to them in terms of breeding to the best Labrador bloodlines. As such, there are many factors (of which the true origin of the silver is just one) to take into consideration before a breeder or owner should consider the silver colored Lab.

So I belive from all the research studies I have read is that silver labs were crossbred with norwegian elkhound and have heard of them being crossed with weimaraners. Because silver did not show up until the 1940's. Therfore, from my reading, I believe silver labs are not pure strains but far back crossbred to produce the color.

[Shannon_C]

[b]I myself think its ridiculous using the colour silver to ruin the Labrador, after seeing that website of those silvers, they just reminded me of Weimaraners. (The colour looks pathetic) (to those who dont approve), sorry but it as to be said! Why dont breeders just stay with the Black, Chocolate and Yellow colours.
Its like the breeds type, i have noticed they have differed in looks over the years....many have narrow heads instead of these lovely round heads.
A relative of mine had a Labrador years ago, and she was a good example of the breed...not like the breed today.
Its a good job there are still breeders producing the old type.

Its such a shame because Labradors are lovely dogs!

Here is the link [url]http://hosting.newnorth.net/silverlab/[/url][/b]

[Guest Anonymous]

Oh my! They look almost exactly like the Weiminear!! I have a few questions (im just curious!) Can you show the silver ones? And how do you get them to be silver?? Do you just keep mixing the lighest colors of the brown ones?? I'm not wanting to know this because I want one or whatever I was just curious. Anyone who knows??

[Guest Anonymous]

Silver labs are a result of a cross back in the 1940's with either a weimaraner or a norwegian elkhound to produce that color. There is NO record of this color ever seen before that time.
I think it is absolutly apalling to ruin such a magnificent breed. Not to mention how much they have ruined the field type. Making it into the cobby standard that it is today. Why ruin a breed already in jeopardy by producing a color of another breed!? This breed is already in danger of losing its type. The working type is clearly distiguishable form the show type. Showing that the show type is ruining what the breed's original purpose was, hunting. This breed is the MOST COMMON seen in shelters and and stray due to popularity.
Silver labs are not showable under the color SILVER, they are shown under the color CHOCOLATE. Absurd if you ask me. To be recognized as silver, the standard for the breed would have to be revised and rewritten.
People are always trying to add things to a breed to their liking. So now what? After ruining its type, they ruin its color?

[Guest Anonymous]

Beagle88:
The silver/gray color is the result of a dilution gene or an epistatic gene. If it is a recessive gene, then both parents must be carriers. The color could have also been a result of "gene drift". It would be possible to produce the silver/gray from two black parents, two yellow parents, or two chocolate parents, IF the gene is a dominant gene and both parents were carriers. If the only way to obtain silver/gray is from the mating of two silver/gray parents, then the gene is a recessive. Homozygous recessive a possibility. More than likely it will be heterozygous in nature.

I have seen some of the silver/gray that look like a fawn in color (gray with a red casting).

Silver/gray is merely a COLOR (like the black, yellow or chocolate) and does not effect the physiological makeup of the animal.

[Guest Anonymous]

wierd! I agree they do look like weiminears.... they are pretty, but I am really partial to the yellows and blacks.... especially the yellows. (we always had a yellow lab growing up). I think the whole site is a little disturbing and it seems almost defensive :-?

[Guest Anonymous]

Huh.. :-? kinda odd. I have practially grown up in a dog kennel but have never heard of silver labs! Thanks everybody who replied! :D

[Guest Anonymous]

Though it has already been proven. The D gene has to come out, and in labrador retrievers it does not. D is dilute. It's been provent hat they were crossed to produce the color.

[color=magenta][size=6][b][url]http://www.geocities.com/silverlabs1/compare.html[/url][/b][/size] You be the judge, go here to compare weimaraners and so-called silver labradors![/color]

Breeder os so-called 'silver' labs: [url]http://www.velenterprises.com/SilverValleyKennels/[/url]

(They look like lab/weimaraner crosses to me)

This a quoted from a site:

The Truth Behind "Silver" Labradors

People that breed silver labs register them as chocolate. A dog's genetic makeup is very complex (like us) and many genes are involved in coat color. The genes are all present in every dog however only certain ones get "turned on" like a switch and all others are off depending on what breed or what goes into a puppy in the case of a mixed breed. A labrador's coat color is dependent on many genes being turned on and off - the ones we commonly think of that dictate color in our breed are the B and E genes of coat color being "turned on" - other genes like T for ticking is always turned off and still other genes like the A gene causes a dog's coat to be all one color. We know that If a lab has BB or Bb then black is dominant, if it has bb then the dog is chocolate. However the E gene acts as a epistatic gene or "masking" gene; in other words if the dog has Ee or EE then the color is soley dependent on what is present at the B gene (BB, Bb, or bb) but if the dog has ee then it will ALWAYS be yellow no matter what is present at the B gene.

[b]The silver coloration comes into play when the D gene is turned on - which does not happen in labradors. [/b]If the D gene is dd then it will "dilute" the coloration if the B gene is bb in labradors. In other breeds the dilute combo (dd) can make a Bb or BB dog gray or "blue". A dog like the doberman has this dilute gene pattern and therefore "blue" dobies can arise from a black doberman that has this dilute combination. Other breeds like Great Danes, Chow Chows, and German Shepherds can be diluted. Some breeds accept the color and others do not.

The breeders of silver labs say that it is not the work of the D gene but of the B gene working in conjunction with the C gene which I don't think is true in Labradors - (C for "concentration" can cause fox reds in our breed when combined with ee and it can influence the concentration of black or chocolate expression as well - goes into why some chocolates are darker than others).

I would suspect that silver labs were a [b]combination of a Labrador and a Weimaraner [/b]- they (weimaraners) ALWAYS have the diluted D gene turned on (dd). This combo would produce a dog that would essentially look like a lab and if bred to a chocolate lab then the results would look and most likely act like labs (due to the Weim also being a gun dog and having a vaguely similar build and temperment when compared to many other breeds) - and the dilute gene could be "turned on" because of an introduction of this dilute combination. The resulting offspring could carry this - silver breeders comment that all silver puppies come from a silver x silver cross, and silver x chocolate give either silver puppies or chocolate puppies that carry silver. This would agree with the D gene hypothesis - two parents with dd would only give a d gene and the puppies would all have dd and would therefore be silver.

In any case - they are not Labradors and breeders of them (in my opinion) are corrupting a breed that is in trouble due to it's popularity anyway. We don't need any more problems and we certainly already have our hands full with the three colors already being expressed!!!


2 silver labrador links:
[url]www.geocities.com/silverlabs1/[/url]
[url]www.labbies.com/silver.htm[/url]

[color=blue][u][b]Here are some of the FAQ's that Silver breeders would like you to believe: [/b][/u][/color]


[color=darkblue]Breeders say: Silver Labs were registered as Silver both on the registration certificate and the AKC color charts until 1987. Breeders who could not produce Silver puppies protested to the AKC and they were only allowed to be registered as a shade of chocolate.[/color]

[color=red]****Fact: [/color]Silver was [b]NEVER[/b] listed as a color choice on puppy registration slips! Unfortunately it was common practice for the AKC to have a blank line for "other color" on ALL breeds' registration slips. This is were the loop hole started and how the first Silvers were registered. [b]The AKC standard has NEVER listed Silver as a recognized color. [/b]
[color=red]
****Fact: [/color][b]A shade of chocolate, which is deceiving to begin with, is the only way to register these crossbreds with AKC at this present time. [color=brown]Simply put, purebred Silver Labs do not exist! [/color][/b]

[color=red]****Fact: [/color]According to the AKC standard, the chocolate color can range from a light sedge to a chocolate. [b]No where does it mention, Gray, Silver, or Blue/Gray pigmentation. [/b]

[color=red]****Fact: [/color]A pedigree obtained from AKC on one particular "Silver" Lab (registered as chocolate), [b]also showed that there has been radical inbreeding taking place amongst one breeder. [/b][color=brown]Not only was this dog a result of a father to daughter breeding, the daughter was a result of a full brother to sister breeding! Thus, keeping the dilute "silver/Weimeraner" gene, while being able to pass DNA testing to determine parentage[/color].
[color=blue]
Breeders say: Reputable breeders are so adamant about Silver Labs because they saw their share of the market "fall through the floor when chocolates became popular." These "ethical" breeders have resorted to killing any Silver puppies to protect their investment in the black and yellow bloodlines.[/color]

[color=red]****Fact: [/color]This statement is so silly. First of all, breeders dedicated to the Labrador Retriever don't breed dogs according to any "market". Secondly, ethical breeders don't breed just to make money so this contradictory. Mismarked puppies do occur in Labs and have done so for decades, this is well documented. Reputable breeders simply sell these puppies as pets. So to say that "ethical" breeders have covered up the Silvers by killing them to protect their black and yellow investments is ridiculous, especially since Silver breeders say that their color comes from chocolates. [b]If it is from the chocolates, then what and how would they be protecting blacks and yellows that supposedly don't carry the gene for Silver in the first place? [/b]

[color=blue]Breeders say: Silver Lab breeders would have you believe that Silver or gray Labs have been mentioned since people began writing about Labs.[/color]

[color=red]****Fact: [/color]In all the books that this author has read, and believe me, it has been many from a range from the 1960's to present. From pet books to those written by very experienced, knowledgeable and reputable breeders all including an in-depth history on the Lab since its beginning. [b]NEVER has this author seen a thoroughly "gray" adult Lab mentioned[/b]! If this were a true color gene that is associated with the recessive chocolate color, then it would have been around since the beginning, something that simply has never been established. This author would really like to know what literature these breeders are getting their information from. It would have been nice to have included a credit to certain books that mention adult "gray" Labs.

[color=blue]Breeders say: Ignorant and/or jealous breeders accuse the Silver Labs of being a cross between Labs and other breed(s). These accusations are based on finacial motives. [/color]

[color=red]****Fact: [/color]This is a common accusation by knowledgeable breeders who have many, many years breeding Labradors true to the written standard as approved by the [b]AKC which has NEVER acknowledged a Silver Lab[/b]. Breeders who make such statements about others being ignorant or jealous about this color only have profit on their mind. Breeding for a specific "rare" feature that is not part of the Lab's history is only thinking of the pocket book, as mentioned on the home page. The knowledgeable and reputable breeder of Labradors is concerned for the breed and its preservation. Making money is the furthest thing from their mind. Breeding quality Labradors for the improvement, betterment and preservation are their only goals! It has nothing to do with jealously and everything to do with keeping the Lab pure and protecting the original colors of the Lab: Black, yellow and chocolate.


[color=blue]Breeders say: One breeder has even gone so far as to offer a Silver Lab Challenge and will give anyone $100,000 to any "expert" that can disprove their Silver Labs are anything but purebred. [/color]
[color=red]
****Fact: [/color][b]DNA testing can only prove the parents. IT CANNOT INDENTIFY DIFFERENT BREEDS[/b]. Therefore, since some breeders have been duping the public with [b]rare and exotic AKC Silvers [/b]for many generations with their [b]inbred mixes[/b], [color=brown]DNA can only confirm the parents of a puppy in question[/color]. It [color=darkred]cannot[/color] go back further generations needed to prove that Weimeraners were introduced into the Lab gene pool. Therefore, no it cannot be proven. However, anyone with a trained eye in dog breeds and conformation can tell that [b]these dogs are indeed crossbreds. [/b]


In closing, anytime someone tries to sell you something that is rare and exotic for an exorbitant amount of money, is only in it for one reason. MONEY. These Silver breeders are very defensive and secretive about "[b]their[/b]" bloodlines. Some charge for information packets and if you ask any questions about their dogs, you will get a rude response. "Just buy the packet, so I can make money!" A reputable breeder will be extremely open and honest with puppy buyers and most have pictures AND pedigrees of their dogs on their websites to share with all who are interested. [color=brown]So why are these Silver breeders so defensive and secretive? Something to hide? They definitely do not have their dogs' and the breed's best interest in mind. [/color]

[url]http://www.petitionpetition.com/cgi/petition.cgi?id=3354[/url] Here is a petition against the so-called silver labrador.

[Guest Anonymous]

I signed the petition. :D The one site you listed in purple won't go through?

[Guest Anonymous]

Hmmm maybe copy and paste?

[url]http://www.geocities.com/silverlabs1/compare.html[/url]

[Guest Anonymous]

Oh my gosh! They look too much alike! So people are lieing about the breed huh :evil:

[Guest Anonymous]

Lafayette:
You quoted: [color=red]This a quoted from a site:

The Truth Behind "Silver" Labradors [/color]

[color=blue]Lafayette Kennel - please advise where you found this site. I'd like to visit it myself.[/color]

[url]http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/Genetics/ColorGen.html[/url] ----- [color=blue]this website has something different to say about the genetics of color.[/color]

Lafayette quoted: [color=red]However, anyone with a trained eye in dog breeds and conformation can tell that these dogs are indeed crossbreds. [/color]

[color=blue]Lafayette, what are your credentials? Are you aware that you can be sued for Defamation of Character? Even though, you didn't mention any names, your quotes are taken directly from Crist Culo Kennels website.[/color]

[Guest Anonymous]

Beagle88, this is a very good website concerning the genetics explanation of silver labs. Lafayette, you may find this website interesting, also.

[url]http://www.labbies.com/genetics2.htm#Silver[/url]

AGAIN, Lafayette --- as from another forum --- you may want to do your homework before you start defaming someone's character and spreading false information.

[Guest Anonymous]

LOOK HERE Heel Nippin! EVERYTHING LISTED BY ME IS STATED DIRECTLY FROM SITES CONTAINING SO-CALLED SILVER LABS! So don't go around with that kind of snobbish attitude saying I am wrong. Look through each page. Everything I posted comes from theses pages. You call me a liar saying again that I don't have my facts straight. Well here it is, in black and white, clear as crystle. Its all from the Silver Labs Real or Myth website not from the Crist Culo Kennel as you stated blatenly that it was. Go look for yourself.

[url]http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/silverlabs.html[/url] ([b]The Truth Behind Silver Labs website[/b])

[url]http://www.labbies.com/silver.htm[/url] ([b]Yet another site quoted from[/b])

[url]http://www.geocities.com/silverlabs1/[/url] ([b]Silver labs real or myth[/b])

[url]http://www.geocities.com/silverlabs1/faqs.html[/url] ([b]All of my previous message mainly comes from this page[/b])

[url]http://www.geocities.com/silverlabs1/compare.html[/url] ([b]Compare labs to weimaraners[/b])

[url]http://www.petitionpetition.com/cgi/petition.cgi?id=3354[/url] ([b]petition against silver labs[/b])


Lafayette quoted: However, anyone with a trained eye in dog breeds and conformation can tell that these dogs are indeed crossbreds. [color=green]THIS comes from someone elses hand who typed that. I only reposted it here. I did not say that at all. its on the faq site. [/color]http://www.geocities.com/silverlabs1/faqs.html

Lafayette, what are your credentials? Are you aware that you can be sued for Defamation of Character? Even though, you didn't mention any names, your quotes are taken directly from Crist Culo Kennels website. [b]AND they are not "Taken" because I did not say I wrote them....They aren't even from that site... I got them from the Silver Labs Real or Myth site!!![/b]

[color=red]You are talking about when I posted this:[/color]
[b]One breeder has even gone so far as to offer a Silver Lab Challenge and will give anyone $100,000 to any "expert" that can disprove their Silver Labs are anything but purebred.

****Fact: DNA testing can only prove the parents. IT CANNOT INDENTIFY DIFFERENT BREEDS. Therefore, since some breeders have been duping the public with rare and exotic AKC Silvers for many generations with their inbred mixes, DNA can only confirm the parents of a puppy in question. It cannot go back further generations needed to prove that Weimeraners were introduced into the Lab gene pool. Therefore, no it cannot be proven. However, anyone with a trained eye in dog breeds and conformation can tell that these dogs are indeed crossbreds. [/b]


[color=darkblue][b]THIS all comes from this page: The Silver Lab Real or Myth site. NOT the breeder or kennel you mentioned!!! [/b][/color]http://www.geocities.com/silverlabs1/faqs

You are the one who makes this board bad. You and your false accusations! Beagle88 and I looked through the sites and NONE of this material was stated from Crist Culo Kennels but from the Silver Labs Real or Myth site.

[url]http://www.labbies.com/silver.htm[/url] It states plain as day right here. There is no such thing as a silver labrador.

[url]http://www.ashlandlabradors.net/Labradorcolor.html[/url] Another quote about silver labs here.

[Guest Anonymous]

[color=blue]READ THE WEBSITE --- YOU AND BEAGLE88 MISSED THIS:
This is from Crist Culo Kennel's website:[/color]

Q. How are Silver Labs registered with AKC?

A. Until 1987, AKC issued registration papers which listed silver as a Lab's registered color; both on the AKC registration certificates and AKC color charts. After breeders who could not produce silver in their bloodlines began to protest, AKC changed the silver color to A shade of chocolate. Admittedly this is an almost laughable form of denial, but it is currently the established policy of AKC to register Silver Labs as chocolate.

Q. Why are some breeders so adamant there is no such thing as a Silver Lab?

A. Breeders of black and yellow Labs saw their market share fall through the floor when chocolates became popular in the Lab marketplace. These same breeders opposed recognition of chocolates by AKC for decades. Opposition breeders claim their resentment is based on breeding ethics. However, their breeding ethics extend only as far as their pocketbooks. Aside from the presence of a genetic combination which produces silver coats - Silver Labs have the same genetic makeup as non-Silver Labs. Some of these ethical breeders freely admit killing silver puppies to protect the breed standards. In reality, the silver puppies they kill have the same genetic make-up as the blacks, yellows, and chocolates they allow to survive. The only ethic these breeders are protecting is the ethical investment they have in their black and yellow bloodlines.

Q. How long have Silver Labs been around?

A. Literature on Labradors mentions the occasional gray puppy since people first began writing about Labs. The problem was, there was never a large enough gene pool of other grays to replicate the color. With the recent large number of chocolate Labs, the Labs' gene pool now allows the replication of silver color genetics. Crist Culo Kennels is repeatedly contacted by chocolate breeders who produce a silver pup..... from a bloodline in no way related to Crist Culo Kennels.

Q. Are Silver Labs a cross between Labs and any other breed(s)?

A. This is a common accusation by ignorant and/or jealous breeders who either do not know what they are talking about, or have a financial motive for bad mouthing Silver Labs. Crist Culo Kennels did gene mapping on the Crist Culo Kennels silver bloodline. Not only are Crist Culo Kennels' lines of pure Lab descent, the gene sites of other gray K-9 are not the same as the sites in labs which produce the gray color. [color=red]To quiet the ignorant, Crist Culo Kennels has a Silver Lab Challenge which offers $100,000.00 to any expert who wishes to disprove Crist Culo Kennels' Silver Labs are of pure Lab descent..... and guess what..... no takers. [/color]These self-proclaimed experts are not willing to put their money where their mouth is.

[color=blue]Yes, I did locate the sites that you "quoted", but you did leave some of the information out.[/color] [color=blue]If you are going to quote something, at least make sure you include everything and not just take things out of context. [/color]

[color=blue]Never called you a liar, just suggested that you get your facts straight (again). It is obvious that you know nothing about genetics, inbreeding or linebreeding. Where genetics are concerned -- nothing is absolute. AGAIN, genes can and do mutate, genes can and do drift, genes can and do dilute (color), terratogens can cause an effect on genes --- so with the FACTS given concerning genetics, it is not inconceivable that a different color from the norm CAN occur. [/color]

[color=blue]READ literature concerning GENETICS and not testimonies from breeders (who may or may not know anything about genetics). AND look at some of the other AKC pedigrees from other breeders, you will also see that inbreeding and linebreeding is a VERY common practice. At least be open minded enough to do the SCIENTIFIC research.[/color]

[color=blue]Instead of calling someone else a liar (which you have) regarding the color of their dogs, DO THE RESEARCH --- which you have a history of not doing.[/color]

[Guest Anonymous]

I think the silver labs are ugly, but what matters is that it is a lab wich always makes a good companion they never complains what we look like so why should we. I think they should not be allowed so show though only the blonde black and chocolat.

[Guest Anonymous]

Alright guys or gals let's debate this one out.
I think when you read all of the site [url]www.labbies.com/silver.htm[/url]
and read it maybe once or twice you understand alot. The yellow Lab and the Nor. Elkhound were crossed at one time to give the yellow a good undercoat and a better look. These two carried the same type structure. Possibly the silver gene came from there?? There was also a Pointer /Lab crossing in Field lines. Of course all occured in the 40's but..I am neither here nor there. I will say that all of them that I have seen are very narrow faced and small boned. Like American Labs(or field trial) not English Lines. Coat colors change to a lighter shade with age. A more washed chocolate look which to me shows a possible yellow in the line some where.
As far as the Crist Culo Kennels they need to read it too. It is no wonder they put a big price on the "challenge" because they know it cannot be done! DNA only does parentage duh!! What a cheap way to sale pups!
Me myself I will leave the genetics to the geneticists.. I personally like my Yellow and blacks and chocolates. I will not go kill or ban a Lab because it is silver. When they figure out it's origin I will proceed with my opinion until then I will buy a Weimaraner if I want something silver.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Mei-Mei']The dog I adopted from the shelter 3 weeks ago is a Weimaraner/Lab Mix! She's silvery black with very light blue eyes. She's also very clever...but she is a mix breed. I don't see the point in creating a silver Lab. Why mix breeds just to obtain a new color?

It reminds me of a funny story I read in one of my dog books. The author's friends bought a 'very rare' all black Rottweiler puppy from Germany. When he went to visit them to see the pup it turned out to be a Labrador Retriever! [i]Caveat Emptor[/i] :D[/quote]

The crossing of breeds was done a VVEERRRYY long time ago with several breeds if not all to aquire what we have today. (this is not a post to anyone so they can go cross a mastiff with a poodle please!) People just do not understand were the silver came. There is really no way to trace and no written record of it.

The blue eyes is from the Weimaraner!! Are they not awesome1 I love a Weimaraner's eyes :D

[Guest Anonymous]

Here's my 10cents/ my 2cents are free:

This looks like a job for me/ So everybody just follow me/ cause we need a little...controversy/ cause it feels so emty without me..

I read in the AKC book that the ONLY acceptable colors for the Lab are: Black, Yellow and Chocolate. Now this looks like another American BullBoxer issue. Someone creating MUTTS and trying to pawn them off as Purebreds. But, the subject of genetics coming into play is going a little to deep for me. And as for the 'CHALLENGE' to prove them wrong cannot be done 100% as someone posted earlier. DNA is never 100%.

[2B-ornut-2B]

I am a labrador breeder and I have charcoal and silver coats on my labradors. I do not know what happened so many years ago as I wasn't there and neither were any of you. However, I have entered into my kennel business with labradors who have these coat colors as well as with labradors that have the "traditional" black, yellow and chocolate (if you can in good conscience call yellow and chocolate traditional). They have the same behavior, temperment and drive that the others here do. I do not have dogs with skinny bodies and huge elephant ears. Posting for the first time here I do not know how to add a pic or I would. Mom and Dad are labs, as are grandparents and great grandparents etc. I do know that there is now a dilute red labrador as well and what I do not get is if the labrador retriever was blended with the chessie and others in the past then they are already all half breeds so to speak.

[URL]http://www.labradornet.com/typecast.html[/URL]

It seems to me that the statements you guys have made seem to say "here was a genetically pure breed and you guys screwed it up," without acknowledging that the labrador is already muddied with other breeds as are many other purebreed AKC registered show champion and field trial champion dogs.

The yellows and chocolates came in from somewhere and weren't accepted at that time, don't tell me you believe that out of nowhere a chocolate or yellow was produced from two totally pure black labrador lines.

[cdef103]

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[Silverlablover]

This argument is getting SO tired. Seriously, who cares? I have a silver lab puppy and she's absolutely gorgeous. Her parents were pure breds, registered by the AKC, and so is she. Yes, she is registered as a chocolate, but she looks silver. It's just a color variation, and nothing to get so worked up about. If you don't like them, don't get one.

As far as I can tell, the only people that really feel strongly against it are breeders that are threatened by them. Get over it! As for the rest of the population, everyone seems absolutely smitten with our dog. I haven't left the house with her once without getting bombarded with compliments. I have had a number of people ask for the breeder and I've had strangers want to take her picture.

Luckily I've never run into anyone as rude as the people on this site!

[Zonedout]

[quote name='Silverlablover']This argument is getting SO tired. Seriously, who cares? I have a silver lab puppy and she's absolutely gorgeous. Her parents were pure breds, registered by the AKC, and so is she. Yes, she is registered as a chocolate, but she looks silver. It's just a color variation, and nothing to get so worked up about. If you don't like them, don't get one.

As far as I can tell, the only people that really feel strongly against it are breeders that are threatened by them. Get over it! As for the rest of the population, everyone seems absolutely smitten with our dog. I haven't left the house with her once without getting bombarded with compliments. I have had a number of people ask for the breeder and I've had strangers want to take her picture.

Luckily I've never run into anyone as rude as the people on this site![/QUOTE]
I totally agree. Nobody does any research of for themselves..See something that suits them and boom...cut and paste and it's the written truth. Yes there are many dilute chocolate labs that resemble weims..I'll give you that. There are also many that don't. I personally have a yellow Silver Factor male that is all English and used with pups produced with my BISS CH sired yellow boys pups from my dilute chocolates and dilute blacks. What will I have then? dilute factored dogs that can walk into any ring anywhere and walk of with the title...no doubt. After a few of these take home the titles and it is revealed what they actually are the LRC it going to need an extra pair of pants to change into..it's coming people...it's coming. The dogs are out there and there is a network of dilute improvement breeders that are working together, gathering CH sired pups and show prospects. Buying them from open minded BYC breeders or out of Europe where they are already excepted. Then breeding them with their dilutes. Producing all (improved)dilute factored pups. The following generation will be Super Dilutes..Get Ready boys and girls.. Two generations away is where you will see the fireworks. There are already some AKC field titles been awarded to dilutes and Canadian CH's on dilutes as well..it's coming, it's coming , it's coming..like it or not we are here..We are not going away, we love the challenge and mostly we love the color of our coats....We will have recognition just like the yellows and the Chocolates..See you in the ring...