Seijun

Is there any merit to the idea that a dog breed can be inherently dangerous? I'm not trying to name names, support BSL, or accuse any breeds of being "bad", but if a dog can be created that will inherently hunt (aka "be aggressive to") birds, or coons, or whatever other animal chosen, then theoretically wouldn't it be possible to create a breed inherently aggressive towards humans? (For example, dogs bred to fight in wars.. Wouldn't they have been bred to be as aggressive as possible...?) ~Seij

Some people got problems.... [url]http://www.herald-mail.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=93098&format=html[/url] ~Seij

[quote name='AllAmericanPUP']This post isn't about buying from a reputable breeder vs. adopting, so I dont know how that got thrown in here.. Somebody show me a responsible mix breed breeder. [/quote] I'm not saying there is one, I'm just saying that IF there was a responsible mixed breed breeder, I would not find fault with them just because their dogs were mixed, and I would not find fault with someone buying from them. Personally, I have never met or seen a responsible mixed breed breeder (for something like labradoodles, rottipoos, etc). I don't even know if one exists. Most mixed breed breeders are just in it to sell cutely named mutts for money. That isn't to say though that there isn't a person out there who [b]isn't[/b] in it for money, and who [b]doesn't[/b] try to draw in buyers with cute little names and "tags" like "purebred Aussiedoodle" or something like that (there are mixed breeds out there though that DO perform jobs, and are not bred just to be pets. I consider most of their breeders responsible). Sorry if I turned the topic into a breeder vs adopting discussion, I just don't like the constant bashing mixed breeders get JUST because their dogs are not pure. Her original question was why mixing breeds is frowned upon. I don't frown on it though (when it is done responsibly of course) because I think that it [i]is[/i] possible for a mixed breeder to be responsible. JMO though, please no one hate me for it... :( ~Seij

Here's my opinion on breeding mixed breed dogs. A responsible breeder will do all that the responsible pure-bred breeders do, and they will also not breed just for money, they will breed to provide either a good working companion (some mixed breeds are produced as better working dogs), or just a good companion overall. Furthermore, a responsible mixed breed breeder will be sure to take back any unwanted dog and make sure that the pups they sell with be spayed/neutered, thus preventing their dogs from adding to overpopulation in shelters. Although 'tis true the person buying from them could have gotten a dog from a shelter, thus easing overpopulation, there is no guarantee that that is what they would have done. Buying does have benefits to adopting. If you buy from a responsible breeder, you know your pup's origins, and you know it will grow up with good health and a good temperament. You get a puppy from a shelter, you may not know for sure what its origins are, and you don't know what sort of health or temperament problems it might have when it grows up. It does not mean a dog from a shelter can't be just as good as one from a breeder, but some people like to know for sure what they are getting. You adopt from a shelter and you always run the chance that the pup came from a byb and will die in three years from health complications. Although I do not encourage people to breed mixed breeds, I will not penalize the people who do it responsibly and who make sure every dog gets a good, loving home. I feel that they provide people who want it with a mixed breed dog of known origins, health, and temperament. Personally, I do not feel that a responsible mixed dog breeder adds to overpopulation anymore than a pure-bred breeder does. EDIT: Another argument people like to use against breeding mixes is that it isn't ok because it doesn't better any specific breed. Well what exactly is "bettering a breed"? The only thing I can think of is a dog bred to do its original, working job. The vast majority of so called responsible pure bred breeders though just breed companion animals or show animals. How is this bettering the breed if none of those dogs are contributing to its breed's original working purpose? I just don't see how a person could justify responsibly breeding pure-bred dogs but not mixed ones, unless the person is opposed to all pure-bred breeding except for dogs that are performing their original jobs. ~Seij

[quote name='True_Pits'] Its also like those selling or giving away Pit Bull mixes they claim are purebred Pit Bulls. Well I had the same thing happen with wild animals, this lady tried to give me a "pure artic wolf" that was nothing but some mutt. Then another try to give/sell me two lynx that were regular domesticated house cats....lmao people are funny.[/quote] :lol: You seriously saw someone trying to sell housecats as Lynx!? :D :lol: Now that's one I haven't seen yet. Seriously though, some people are so gulable to scams like that. On one website I was looking at there was a beagle mix that was for adoption, it had been sold as a pit bull. It had the low long body and long floppy ears of the beagle, I couldn't imagine anyone could actually have hought it was a pit bull. Another time I saw someone with a ROTTWEILER mix (looked almost pure rottweiler too, 'cept for the slightly more "Golden Retrieverish" face) that was sold to her as being 98% wolf. She wouldn't beleive me when I told her she might have been scammed out of money for it. Yes, deffinately hard to imagine the things people fall for...I don't own a pit, but I can imagine how frustrating it must be for you guys to see some mutt who attacked a person labeled as a pit bull. Of all the "pet wolf/wolf hybrid" attack stories I have ever read about, only one looked like it [i]might[/i] have been part wolf. I wonder what the percentage of Pit bulls are that were involved in attacks that were actually just misrepresented mutts/bully mixes... Back on subject, I wonder if these people realized their dog was hurt after the first incident or if they didn't realize it until after the dog attacked the kid. If they never took the dog in for vet care that could actually count as animal abuse (or so I have been told). ~Seij

[quote name='Rowie-the-Pooh']Urggh, this makes me so mad! :x What were people doing with a pet wolf, anyway? Is that legal? [/quote] They adopted it, and it isn't a wolf, it was just misrepresented as one. I have been studying wolf/dog identification for 2 years now and IF that dog has ANY wolf in him, it is a very small amount at best, at least judging by that one picture.. (In wolfdog rescue it is not uncommon for someone to appear needing to place their "pure wolf". Almost every single one that I have ever seen wasn't a wolf, and of the ones that weren't really wolves, all were either pure dogs or extremely low content wolfdogs that could easily pass as pure dogs). And yes, even if it was a wolf, it would still be legal. That is not the real issue here. Ask yourself the question, what would YOU do if your pet was hit by a truck? Seems to me that this injured paw would have had to have been hurt pretty bad if it was still in pain over 3 weeks after the dog was hit. And they say they didn't know?? Ok, lets see, my dog was just hit by a [b]truck[/b], could it [i]possibly[/i] have been hurt by this? :roll: Furthermore, they let their kid play with the dog even though they KNEW it had growled at the child before. Their irrisponsibility has let to the death of their pet and the near death of their child. ~Seij

You don't need me to count the ways... :roll: [url]http://www.waff.com/Global/story.asp?S=2433192[/url] (This should probably go in the News forum, but it will get read more here I think. Feel free to move this topic though if you feel it really needs moving.) FYI, even though the article says "WOLF" I highly doubt it, looks like just a GSD mix to me (and it most likely is). Regardless, this is an excellent example as to why some people shouldn't have pets of ANY kind. ~Seij

I didn't know that Italy had so many bans! :o What do they use to determine what dog breeds are "dangerous"? Anyone have a list of [i]their[/i] 90+ banned breeds? ~Seij

Does anyone have a list of the dog breeds most often banned? I have looked but can't seem to be able to find anything. ~Seij

I had always thought super glue was a weird way to fix a wound, but when I ws little we used it to save a pigeon's life. One of the pigeons, a chick, had been hit by a hawk and the skin on his neck and head had been torn loose. My mom superglued the skin back on and the bird actually lived and grew up just fine like nothing had happened. ~Seij

When my dogs were injured the wounds were small but they had hit some blood vessles and the dog was bleeding quite badly. I was very afraid that the dog would bleed to death because the gums had begun to pale. I did not take them to the vet because the wounds were small enough that they couldn't have put stiches in. There was nothing I didn't have or do to fix the woulds that a vet wouldn't have had or done. My mom was there both times and she used to work as a vet. We used just about every bandage and medicine we could think of. We eventually superglued the wounds (I know, that sounds wierd, but it worked). They have had other minor injuries before, none life threatening. I was using their more serious injuries to show that working in a field setting can be dangerous. Most injuries a dog suffers on the field aren't that serious but are still painful. A hurt tail would not be life-threatening, but it would still be painful because it would take a long time to heal even with vet care. As far as split pads, I was only using that example to prove that yes, these dogs will run for near forever if you let them. A split pad would not be a common injury on the field unless you ran the dogs for several hours strait (which you shouldn't do). When my dog had split her pads she had escaped and had been running almost nonstop for 3 or 4 hours on frozen ground before she came back home. Sorry if my posts were confusing, they tend to blend together a lot. I wasn't trying to say that every dog that does field work will get life-threatening injuries or that they SHOULDN"T be taken to the vet.. To clear things up, no, life-threatening injuries are not common. Minor injuries are. A minor injury on the tail or ear (the most common places for injury) can be painful and take a long time to heal because of its location, not because the injury itself is serious. A dog with a serious injury should be taken to the vet. Mine were not because it was agreed among the family that there was really nothing the vet could do. Docking a tail prevents minor tail injuries later in life that would be painful, though not life threatening. The dogs suffer such minor injuries because of the terrain they work on and because of their tendancy to run non-stop through it (hence my example with the dogs running until their pads were split and bleeding). ~Seij

[quote]I was just wundering, are Golden's and Lab's not used for bird hunting???? [/quote] I think they are used more for retrieving. Mine are pointers and they run almost non-stop. From what I understand labs will not do this. The pointers I have will run at top speed non-stop unless they are commanded to stay or they go on point. That is why they can get hurt so easy in the thick brush that grows up around here. Imagine running naked through thick weeds and briars at near or at top speed for ten minutes strait or more. These dogs don't seem to feel pain either (although I know they must sometimes). Once one of our pointers ran off and she ran until her paws were split and bleeding. Pointers were born and bred to run, there isn't much that will make them stop either. ~Seij

[quote]Still, our clinic handles a lot of different plantations' hunting dogs and we very seldom ever see the injured tails that others are apparently seeing elsewhere since it's almost a "certainty." Maybe dogs in this area are just lucky. In fact, we've seen far more ear hematomas than anything else in these plantation dogs, but I don't see a rush to cut off the ears of these dogs.[/quote] Most of the people I know of never take their dogs to the vet when they suffer an injury. Most injuries are relatively small and can be treated using basic medicine and doctoring practices, but that does not mean the injury does not cause pain for the dog or that it heals quickly. The injuries my dogs suffered, the cut on the ear and chest, were small and did not look that bad, but they wouldn't quite bleeding. It was several weeks before they healed. They broke open every time the dog ran or shook its head. I don't think even "professional" doctoring would have changed that. [quote]Something else I don't understand is how it is that other countries are successfully working their dogs with tails, ears and all while we must "protect" our dogs by cutting off their tails and ears.[/quote] Other countries most likely banned such practices because it was done more for visual appeal than for the dogs' welfare. Also, I don't know what the land lay-out is over there. In my area, the brush and briars are VERY thick, some people I know even go as far as to carry machetes(sp?) to get through it all. There are also barbed wire fences everywhere hidden in the brush and weeds. Oh, and I didn't say "ran INTO" a barbed fence, I said "ran THROUGH" a barbed fence. Barbed fences are a common obstacle here. The dog's body usualy clears the fence but the tail stands above the level of the back and could easily get scratched or torn on a wire above it. It could be that in other countries the land is not so much like this and that the dogs' risk of suffering injury is not at great. I don't know, I've never been there. ~Seij

[quote]So Seijun are you a frequent bird hunter?[/quote] Not frequent, but I do bird hunt. The dogs love it. [quote]I always think it's kind of funny when people say they dock tails to prevent injuries whether they've had a problem or not. It's kind of like saying you should decapitate them to prevent head injuries. I work in a vet clinic, and like mouse pointed out, we just don't have folks lining up to have their dogs seen about because of tail injuries... certainly no more so on traditionally docked dogs than other breeds like one Shih who did eventually have part of his tail amputated because it was slammed in a car door twice. Docking his tail would have prevented that injury, right? I guess my point is that it's a weak argument. If people like the look, I'd rather hear them say they like the look rather than using the excuse that it's for injury prevention. If that's the case, we should be docking ALL dogs' tails since any of them can get hurt. [/quote] Anyone who hunts with a bird dogs knows how [b]high[/b] their risk of injury is. Briars, barbed fences, etc can all injure a dog that is running at top speed through them. In a home setting there is of course the slight risk of injury to a tail, but it isn't NEAR as high as a dog in the field. A working bird dog is almost [b]guaranteed[/b] to suffer injury at some point while working. Tail and ear injuries are the most frequent. My dogs have nearly bled to death before because of simple ear cuts or a small cut on the chest from a fence! By docking the tail we prevent them from suffering later in life. An adult dog with a cut tail can suffer for days upon days. A cut tail is very hard to fix. Docking on a working dog isn't to protect from the same "might happens" that occur at home, it is to protect from the "almost sure to happens" on the field. Wouldn't you dock a dog's tail if you knew that it was almost sure to suffer a painful and long lasting tail injury while doing field work? Again, these injuries aren't things that [i]might[/i] happen, these injuries are things that a hunter [i]expects[/i] will happen. It isn't the same thing as the once in a lifetime injury that MIGHT occur on a "pet" dog at home. ~Seij

GSD's can come in black. I do think though that the pup might have something else in it. I don't see pure GSD in the face. ~Seij

[quote name='Blitzkrieg Bop SBT']No matter what the reason (excuse) for cropping and docking...it's all cruel and stupid![/quote] Umm.. What if it is to PROTECT the dog against further injury? I have the privilage of sharing my life with three beautiful bird dogs, two of whom have their tails docked. This is to protect their tails from injury when they are hunting in tall grass or other cover. A torn or scratched tail can be painful and difficult to treat, that is why our dogs' tails are docked. ~Seij

I have been bitten by my dog multiple times (food aggression). I was once bitten by a neighbors dog as well. ~Seij

Actually, from what I have been able to dig up, the Klee Kai actually IS a pure bred dog. Unlike other designer dogs, the AKK reproduces with a predictable appearance and behavior, thus making it a pure bred dog. It is NOT a miniature husky though. ~Seij

There is a website somewhere listing almost all the designer dog mixes, I will have to find it and post it here. It is almost funny. ~Seij

I'm not saying it isn't a good article, just struck me as odd the way he started out. One minute he seems to be bashing pits, but then the next he supports them. Just a bit strange, that's all. I'm glad he doesn't want them banned though. ~Seij

Umm.. At least the guy doesn't think they should be banned, that's a plus... [url]http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/Calgary/Michael_Platt/2004/10/07/658629.html[/url] ~Seij

More GSD than anything else, deffinately. Better pics would help though. I keep thinking I see a more stocky breed in there, like maybe Akita or something...? ~Seij

[quote name='Beautiful Border Collie'][quote]rottidoodles, shepradoodles, and huskydoodles.[/quote] no way! are you serious? :roll:[/quote] Yes, I am serious. Those are just a few. I am pretty sure there were more, some boxer mixes I think and some rottie ones. The huskydoodles/huskypoos just look like Wolfhound/something mixes. You can barely even tell they have husky in them. The Shepradoodle was from GSDxStandard poodle and it looked mostly just like the Standard Poodle. The boxer ones were just ugly. ~Seij

I am not deathly afraid of dogs, but I am nervous enough of strange dogs that I go out of my way to avoid them (this began happening just within the past few years). The last dog I adopted I hoped would help me over come that fear. It didn't. But I love her to death as well as my other dogs, and I like my neighbor's dogs too, just not dogs I don't know. ~Seij

Is there any way of telling for SURE if a female dog has had pups before, just by looking at her? ~Seij