HOD (hypertrophic osteodystrophy) in great dane puppy

[Guest Anonymous]

Hello. I have a 6-month-old great dane rescue who has been suffering from hypertrophic osteodystrophy (HOD) for several months now. Does anybody have any experience with this condition? We are treating her for pain and controlling her fevers, but her swollen joints are not getting any better. I would love to find a vet or anybody who has seen such a severe case of HOD - it is a relatively rare condition and it is difficult to find a vet who has knows of alternative treatment options. Thanks.

[Guest roo]

Hi,
I know this may sound stupid but what are you feeding the puppy exactly.
HOD, can be caused by feeding.
please let me know asap exactly what you give.
Roo

[Guest Anonymous]

We are feeding her Wellness dry food (22% protein). I have read all of the information about feeding food that is too high in protein and/or calories (e.g., puppy food, even large breed puppy food). Unfortunately, I do not know what she was eating before she was rescued (about 3 months ago), but I doubt it was high in quality. She was (and is still is) very lean and very small for her age (she is currently 45 pounds and short for a great dane). I do not think she is getting too many calories, either (Wellness is a high quality food - she eats about 3 cups a day in two meals). We are also giving her MSM and various herbal supplements (from our holistic vet). When she was with the rescue organization (she was about 3 months old), she was spayed and received several rounds of vaccinations in a very short time period. Thanks, and I welcome any and all suggestions!

[Guest roo]

What is MSM?

[Guest Anonymous]

MSM is methylsulfonylmethane - it is a naturally occurring compound that is thought to help connective tissue and cartilage in joints as well as help with skin allergies (for animals and humans). We also give her Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acid supplements (fish oil) for her joints.

[Guest roo]

[url]http://www.doglogic.com/hod.htm[/url]

Have you been to this site?
It is very interesting.

Although i personally have not had any cases of HOD in my danes
i know of many many people who have had.

The advice given too all in feeding is to take the pup off all adatives
and feed a low protien diet. by low i mean 20% protien.
I have hunted high and low for a book it have that gives some very interesting information on HOD.
The website i have put at the top looks good too.
Bare with me i will find what i am looking for and post it.
Roo

[alicat613]

Oh no!

Mega doses of Vitamin C right away! Where are you? (Duh, I bt you're in Atlanta) Maybe I can help find an experienced vet in your area. How are things so far?


Very important info - HOD and septicemia have the same symptoms, different treatment.
[url]http://www.netpets.org/~sunny/dane_health.html#HOD[/url]

[url]http://www.daneworld.com/LindaArndt4k.htm[/url]

[Guest roo]

Thanks for the thread alicat.
Had a quick look at it.
Vitamin C is a wondervit, i use it often.
I personally would take the pup off all addatives to start with
even it it was just for a few days before i started
giving vit C.
Sometimes all different herbal things and addatives need a few days
of nothing before starting to add again.
As i said i have never had a case of HOD in my dogs.
But in the 18 years of keeping danes, showing, judging, and breed club work, i have come across it many times, and always the first thing to do
(other than the vets) is get them off all supplements.
Roo

[alicat613]

I've never heard that but then I am on my first (although certainly not last!) Dane and have nowhere near your experience.
Absolutely no supplements like pet tabs or calcium etc!

Atlanta Danes I haven't gotten any referrals yet to an experienced vet in your area, but you might want to contact Linda Arndt at [email][email protected][/email] She is very experienced and helpful and if she isn't able to advise you can put you in touch with Jill Swedlow or the Grays, all very knowledgeable Dane people.

Good luck and keep us updated please!

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks for all the info. There are so many conflicting opinions about vitamin C supplementation among HOD-knowledgable people - I have heard stories of recoveries with and without vitamin C and with and without many other treatments. We were giving the puppy vit C for a while, but now we have stopped all vitamin C (for the last 3 weeks). I was in contact with Linda Arndt when we first got the diagnosis - after talking with her we switched to our new dry food. She seemed to think that if it were nutritionally related, then switching to the lower protein (22%) food, and making sure the puppy was not getting too many calories, would produce immediate results. We did not see any change in her condition, so Linda Arndt thought it was probably vaccine-related or septicemia. In her experience there is little that can be done for these cases (look at the vaccine-related information on her website - there are some dramatic pictures of great danes with HOD). I was also in contact with Jill Swedlow, who suggested the banamine for fevers. My vet is so reluctant to use any type of steroids because she thinks the puppy is too weak, but I keep thinking that it would be worth a try. I am also looking into suggestions that it might be something else (e.g., an autoimmune disorder like lupus or a systemic infection like ehrlichia). This little puppy is such a survivor! When we got the diagnosis we were told by several people that nobody would think we were horrible people if we put her to sleep because she was a rescue puppy that we were fostering - the rescue organization was not willing to pay for any of her treatment (and were willing to put her to sleep) so she is now ours. We just want to give her a chance, and she has never acted like she was ready to give up, so we are not ready, either.

Alicat - thank you for looking for the referals! I am also a member of the Great Dane Room and have seen many of your helpful posts.

[Guest roo]

Please keep us all informed as to how its going.
If you feel down or need a chat we are all here for you :lol:
Big hugs to pup.
Roo

[alicat613]

Atlanta, I haven't been able to find an experienced vet in your area yet.

Have you checked out [url]http://www.danesonline.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi[/url] yet? It's a great site, the best Great Dane forum there is.

I wouldn't give up on the vitamin C, it's one of the best things to supplement with because you can't overdose it and the absolute worst effect is it can give them a little diarrhea.

Wasn't there a blood test Jill Swedlow talked about that can determine if it is septicemia? I thought I recalled something she or the author of that article had to get done through a vet school? I know Hazel Gregory says use Chloramphenicol at 25 mg per pound of body weight, three times a day.

You might ask almostafarm for a referral ([email protected]) or Carol Elwood of the GDC of the midsouth - [email][email protected][/email]

Good luck. Please keep us updated! And great job for caring when others would have given up. [/url]

[Guest Anonymous]

I have a quick question atlanta. You said that she is eating about 3 cups a day in 3 meals? Is that enough?

I am a first time dane owner and I am just asking for reference. Is it because she is so small? Is it the fact that you are feeding top quality food?

My molly is now 8 months old and it seems that when she was 6 months old she was eating more than 3 cups a day.

How is she doing now? I hope everything turns out good. I will keep my eyes peeled for any good information. Good Luck

[alicat613]

How are things going?

Here is a vet group recommended by some fellow dane owners and breeders - ""it's "Gwinnett Animal Hospital" and is located in Snellville on McGee Rd., near the intersection of 78 and McGee Rd. (McGee Rd. is right across from the motor home dealership). Their number is (770) 972-0447. I use Drs. Connolly (the owner), Churchill (2nd in seniority) and Strong (the young, up and coming rising star), but I hear that they are all wonderful. The practice offers both homeopathic and traditional medicine, and Dr. Connolly's specialty is orthopedics - without the high price of paying a vet who specializes in nothing but orthopedics! "

[Guest Anonymous]

Hello again. Brooks has been doing well. We started her on a raw food diet this week (recommended to us by some mastiff owners who had experience with HOD). We also tried a homeopathic remedy Silicea. Since Friday she has been very energetic and no fevers. And it might be wishful thinking, but we think her joints are reducing in size and her feet are not as splayed as they used to be. I will check into that vet - I would love to find a vet who sees a lot of great danes and other giant breeds. Thanks!! To the question about the amount of kibble the puppy was getting - it probably sounded low for several reasons: 1) she is very small for age (both short in height and skinny), 2) one of the treatments of HOD is to reduce protein and calorie intake, 3) you always want to keep giant breeds on the lean side anyway to help prevent skeletal and joint disorders, 4) we were using a super premium kibble that requires lower amounts, and 4) she did not always have a great appetite. Thanks, and I'll keep you updated!

[alicat613]

Oh, I am soo glad to hear she is doing better!
Wonderful news! I am just terrified of HOD, but we do feed "real food" and keep him thin, so hopefully we will not have to go through this.
I am just so glad to hear she is doing better! And to think, others were going to put her down. I'm so glad you took the time and energy to see her through this. You'll be rewarded with a loving lifetime friend.

[Guest Anonymous]

Just in case anybody was wondering, I forgot to add above (in response to the amount of kibble Brooks was eating before we switched to raw), she was also getting some canned food along with the 3 cups of dry kibble a day (it was Wellness food). I didn't want to imply that I was starving her to treat HOD. She now gets about 2.5 lbs of raw food a day (5% of 50 lbs - from what I read puppies shoud get about 5-10% of their body weight).

Jennifer