anne3149

Some time back I was walking my two GSD's and we constantly met up with a woman who walked a small white fluffy, on lead. I have no idea what breed. The road had a paved path on one side and a grassed area and trees on the other. I used to walk on the grassed area to avoid this woman and her dog. I did this because I could not see the body language of this little dog, it looked like a powder puff. It was the most fierce little dog I have ever seen. When she would come towards us (on the other side of the road) her dog would start barking and then screaming. As the screaming upset my dogs I would put them in a down stay in amongst the trees until the woman got further along the street. All this time she would be telling her dog "It's all right Precious"!!!!! One day the dog was screaming so loudly that people came out of their houses to see what the commotion was. At this point the woman picked up her dog and it completely savaged her arm and she took a good bite to the face. There was blood everywhere. I don't know how the story ended but for sure this woman would have needed stitching up. I started posting here to say it is difficult to see the body language of some small, fluffy dogs but with the bigger ones I know when to move away as they are easier to read. Got a bit carried away with my story. :oops:

The thread is about small, untrained dogs running loose and causing havoc. Not about well trained or well behaved small dogs walking on lead with their responsible owners. Hardly a day goes by here, when walking my large dogs that we do not encounter a small dog or two running ahead of its owner and barking and snapping at my large dogs who are on lead. These small dogs get away with this unacceptable behaviour because their owners let them. It is quite clear to me the fault and blame lies with the owners who think it it 'cute' as previously stated. I will certainly deliver a kick to any small dog who latches onto my big dog. If the situation was that my big dog retaliated and defended itself there is a strong possibility that the little aggressor will be hurt. That is where the media reports [b]'Rottweiler attacks Maltese, Shih Tsu[/b], ( put any small breed in here) and the Rottweiler pays the price I am not prepared to allow a news report that denigrates my breed, who is already shown in a bad light in the media,caused by a little untrained white fluffy whose owner thinks it is cute to see their untrained little monster facing off and attacking my dog. It is in no way 'cute'. These owners not only cause trouble for other well behaved dogs but their little fluffies are also in danger of being hurt. Don't these owners care? Strangely enough these off lead little monsters are the very dogs who have no recall at all. I just can't understand owners who allow their own dogs to cause problems and at the same time put their dogs lives at risk. The bottom line for me is. I will not allow your badly behaved dog to cost the life of my dog. I will do whatever it takes to protect my dog. How many times have we seen reports of large dogs being destroyed due to an attack on a smaller one even if the small dog was off lead?

Courtnek. Thanks for asking for clarification. Yes, I meant chaining out and leaving the dogs 24/7. We have just had a situation where a Neo Mastiff had been on a chain 24/7 for all of his short life. He is about 2yo. This dog has recently been rescued from this situation, with owner agreement. The poor dog lived alone on the property as the owner had moved out and only came over 3 or 4 times a week to feed the dog. This dog did not know what it was to be free of a chain. That is a sad case of chaining indeed. In another instance in a house at the back of mine there is a GSD chained 22 hours a day. For the remaining 2 hours of the day, when the owners come home from work, they let him off the chain and he barks and throws himself at the back fence in an attempt to get my dogs to join his barkfest. This poor dog is never walked and gets very little owner attention at all. Another very bad case of a dog being chained. I understand that there are good reasons for dogs to be chained temporarily but not as a permanent solution on a daily basis by people who have no inclination to spend time with their dogs.

Pumpkin the musher. It was in fact me who started this thread, not cdreid, as you stated. The topic was not posted to 'troll' and cause problems, it was posted because I wanted the opinion of others who do chain their dogs and I wanted to know why they did. You are correct in that I already have my own opinion on the matter. Does that preclude me from asking the opinion of others or must I, in your opinion, have a completely closed mind on the subject. A 'my way or the highway' attitude? Too many people with that attitude already without me adding to the numbers. Hmmm has replied in a clear and concise manner which I understand. I now see why she has the need to chain her Pittys. Firstly, I had no idea that she had such a large number of dogs and secondly she has pointed out that there may well be bloodshed if the dogs were not seperated. That makes sense to me. Is this not what a forum is about, to listen to the opinion of other posters. Just because you do not wish to discuss the chaining of dogs does not mean that it is a 'troll' subject. I would say if the subject is not one of your liking then you have no obligation to post on it. You have the choice of ignoring and not responding to a post you do not like rather than make an unfounded and insulting 'troll' remark.

Pumpkin the musher. Thanks for branding me as a troll. I can assure you this is not the case. Presumably you mean me as I started this debate. [b]This IS the debate forum isn't it???[/b] I really think this terminology is beginning to be thrown around this forum a little too carelessly. Just because I don't agree with chaining up my dogs does not make me a troll, it simply means I do not agree with the practise. I was prompted to ask this question after seeing a pic of a very overweight Rottweiler chained up in the General Discussion forum. I found this quite distressing and as the owner of Rottweilers I happen to know they are happier in a family situation, being with their people rather than on a chain outside. As my dogs are family pets and I am not a breeder I was interested in what others have to say about chaining of dogs, particularly those people who do chain their dogs and also the effect this may or may not have on the dogs........ Is that trolling?? Now Pumpkin, I thought a debate was a discussion about the pros and cons of a particular subject. If you see that as incorrect perhaps you could post exactly what your idea of a debate is. I am also interested in what breeders are looking for in screening prospective owners of their pups....IF the pups have not been brought up in a family situation. I know I was very carefully screened by the breeder of my Rottweiler about not only the living situation but also what ideas I had about obedience training. Had I intimated that my dog would live chained outside then I am quite sure I would not have been acceptable to the breeder as a purchaser of her pup.

Oh Boy!! Hmmm, You have 30 breeding Pit Bulls?? Why so many? Is there that large a market for Pit Bulls where you live? You must sell a lot of pups with 30 breeding dogs. In Australia they are not such a popular breed as we have the dreaded BSL in one state seizing and killing peoples Pittys. Many of the breeders are going onto different breeds now due to the BSL which is spreading thoughout the country. I still maintain that you cannot look after 30 dogs in the same manner as you can with say, two or three dogs. Again, if I had to chain my dogs because I had too many I would cut down on the number of dogs so they were able to live inside with the family. 30 dogs kept outside in runs or on chains are not what I would describe as family pets. Do you sell the progeny of these dogs to families as pets?

There is nothing 'cute' at all about little unleashed, untrained monsters pestering big dogs, be it in a leash free park of anywhere else. They are total menaces. Unless the little dog is trained with good recall it should not even be in a leash free park. Irresponsible owners seem to think it is Ok that these little terrorists come up to our big dogs looking to start a fight. I have a Rottweiler, a well trained one and if a small terrorist comes up to my dog snarling and yapping and my dog decides to defend itself then it is my dog who is blamed for it and it is my dog who gets put to sleep for attacking and maiming the little one. Much as I love all dogs I will deliver sharp and well placed kick to any little untrained monster who tries to attack my dog.....I will do this to protect my dog. I will not let your small, untrained dog be the reason mine may lose its life. Unless you dog is trained, whatever its size, it does NOT belong in a leash free park and neither should it be out in the street unleashed. Leash free parks are there for well trained dogs to play and socialise. They are not there so little cuties can strut their stuff and annoy other dogs.

I won't even comment on the stated similarity of poms and wolves. I don't have 30 dogs and I wouldn't even consider having 30 dogs if that meant having to chain them up all day. I would not be able to give them the care and attention they deserve. How could I obedience train 30 dogs??? My dogs get walked every day. I couldn't do that with 30 dogs either. If my Rottweilers felt the need to live outdoors then that option is open to them. They have 24/7 access to outside. They simply choose to be inside with me. My dogs are my companions, well trained and well behaved companions. I have two Rotties and we are bonded to eachother. That would not happen if they lived the most part of their lives outside on chains. Simple fact is that I would not want 30 dogs as I could not do them justice, I could not give them the individual attention. I could not obedience train so many dogs and I sure do not want a pack of untrained dogs that need to be chained so they don't kill eachother. I consider my dogs to be part of my family. That is the way mine are treated and that is the way they behave.

I have 6 ft fencing with 3 ft of lattice on top = 9ft total. Some people place 2 ft of lattice on top of the fence angled inwards and this will stop dogs from jumping as even if they jump high enough there is nowhere for them to place their back legs. Better than chaining a dog up IMO.

Why not build privacy fencing at least 6ft high and there is no need then to chain your dogs. My dogs live inside and tend to go outside only when I go there. They are velcro dogs...Rottweilers as well, plenty of room for us to live all as a family, inside, enjoying the company of eachother. If I leave the house they have access to outside 24/7 but choose to stay in, sleeping. They get walked each day. Seperately, since I am small and they are large. Each dog weighs about the same as I do. If one of them indavertantly gets left outside when I come in, I see this pitiful face at the glass door...they just stand there looking devesated.

Hope someone got the registration number of the car. People suck!! :evil:

They say beauty is only skin deep but ugly goes down to the bones. There is hope for ignorance though. Knowledge is the answer there.

Well Rabid, you sure have a lot to learn about dogs don't you? Can't be bothered going through your list with my comments.

Ah. cultural difference in the way we speak. Australian here!! Agree with you 100% courtnek. Primrose: I don't know about Colorado. I am in Australia and I see time and time again on TV news how a particular breed of dog attacked and when a pic is shown of the dog it does not look at all like the breed. Just recently a chap who had been attacked in the street by two dogs insisted they were ' Big Black Rottweilers". As it happens the dogs and owner were found and they were Ridgeback crosses. The victim did not even get the color of the dogs correct. Perhaps the media in your country is more dog savvy than the media here. It used to be that most attack dogs were called Rottweilers, now they are being called Pit Bulls. Are you suggesting that only pure bred dogs will bite??????

Mei Mei. I [b]did not say [/b]that courtnek and newfiemum were wrong. I asked what their current stance is on the matter. There is a big difference there. Courtnek has now told us where she stands and that is what was of interest. No one should ever have to apologise for their opinion, we are all entitled to our opinion. What I said was that people had been castigated for their opinion on the matter by some members. People were called trolls because they tried inform us of what was allegedly happening. That's where I thought an apology was needed, not for the opinion in itself.

One of my pet peeves is dogs on chains. I hate to see dogs chained up when there are other alternatives. None of my dogs has ever been tied out and they never will be. I believe it has a physchological effect on the dog. I also don't believe in dogs living their lives outside. Why get a dog if it can't be with the family. Dogs are social animals and need to be with their family 'pack'.

Courtnek....newfiemum..... I would be interested in your stance on this matter now. You have been pretty outspoken in defence of RNP and said the guests were here to cause trouble when it now seems most of them were here to inform us of what was going on. Some were even called trolls. We have had a mod saying they got to the bottom of it and investigations were taking place. This also seem to be a furphy at this stage and/or the mod was conned. No one has come up with an explanation, least of all RNP. I know this seems to be all about RnP but it is about his dogs. We are concerned about them and I am sure we do not respect byb's on this forum and that seems to be exactly what is going on. A desexed dog turns out to be entire or is he?? Is a neutered dog being advertised for stud? How so? Dogs who are not of the standard to be bred are now being advertised for breeding. I guess we won't get the answers from RnP but I trust at least this thread will not be locked because a person or persons who are fans of RnP request the thread be locked. That a couple of people do not want discussion on what RnP may be doing that we consider unethical is not a valid reason to lock a thread IMO. I repeat Courtnek and Newfiemum...where do you stand on the issue now? BK: Thanks for that. It has been difficult for you as mod I am sure. But I agree with you...it's the lies we are so put out about. I doubt we will see RnP here now, but just in case. My beef is personal to an extent for the condition of that poor chained up obese Rottweiler. That is very bad treatment of a lovely dog. Count My Vote in for a ban as well.

Izzy please keep us up to date on this cute little dog and again...Bless you for helping him out. I wish there were more people like you around.

Indeed, thank you K for being honest. We do appreciate what you do. This is probably a good lesson for all of us not to take people at 'face' value just because they have made a large number of posts. This is a nice friendly forum and it would be a shame to see it made to look less than what it is just because of someone trying to put one over us.

Many people supported RNP to the detriment of many others who were taken to task in no uncertain fashion for even doubting him. I think a few of the more outspoken here who rushed to his defense could apologise to the people who spoke their minds about a very suspicious situation. Threads were locked, members were castigated for their doubts and guests were made unwelcome on the forum and why??? Because the regular members leapt to the defence of RNP without knowing or being certain of the facts. All the guests were wrong...just because they were not members???????? Not a very good image for this forum at all. It makes us all look rather foolish. As they say "Where there is smoke there is fire". Ok, so now is anyone going to put their hand up and say 'sorry, we were wrong'? Does anyone feel rather silly for supporting a person just because they have been around for longer than others. RNP could have told the truth. He could tell it now but I bet he won't.

HF he is gorgeous!! I am in Australia and we rarely see any chi's here in the pounds. We get crosses but I haven't come across a pure in months. Mostly we get what we calls swf's (small white fluffies) after the owners discover that grooming is needed and can't be bother with it. These poor mites end up in the pounds so matted that some of them can't walk properly and they all need to be shaved right back. They are in such pain the poor little things. We get a lot of Poms and JR's and their crosses too. Of course the larger breeds are always there in numbers. Lack of training is usually the reason the dogs become unruly and the owners decide to palm the problem off on someone...anyone else. I wish dog ownership was licensed as so many other things are. The main criteria to be to obedience train and pay up front for the training or no dog for you Sir!!

I fail to see how all dogs can 'come with training' when they are sold as a rule as 8 week old puppies. Unfortunately training is not hereditary. It is up to breeders to fully explain the need for obedience training to their prospective purchasers. If the purchaser is not interested in doing ob training then they don't get the dog. Simple really. Cross bred dogs are just as likely to bite as pure bred dogs simply because there are more of them. Statistics show(no I don't have them to hand- you need to do a search) that most bites are from entire, cross bred male dogs. It's just that to the media a cross bred dog bite is not as dramatic or sensational as a Pit Bull, Rottweiler, GSD etc., and the media is about sensationalism and selling papers, watching their TV chanels etc., bland stories just don't cut it with the media. How many times do we hear that a dog bite involves a cross of one of the maligned breeds yet a picture will show no resemblance at all to the Pitty, Rottie, or GSD. The upshot is that cross bred dogs feature very prominantly in bites. Reputable breeders of pure bred dogs do indeed breed for temperament as well as looks. This does not happen in the world of cross breeds.

No one made derogatory remarks at all. Just questions. Everyone is puzzled and it seems threads are being locked out of loyalty to RNP but explanations are not coming forward. This only adds to the intrigue of a very strange situation. It is pretty clear to me that everyone is concerned about the dogs and that seems pretty reasonable seeing that this is a dog forum. People are worried about the fate of the dogs. If no one is abusing anyone else then why lock a thread when all people are asking for is an explanation. RNP could explain what is going on and put everyones mind at rest if he felt that way inclined.

Bless your kind heart for helping this dog izzy. So many would have just left him and not given him another thought.

ditto what drjeffrock said.