gooeydog

I was flicking through the channels on the TV earlier, and caught the last half of an episode of Miami Animal Cops on animal planet. Dunno if it was an old episode or what, but they were covering a case of two rotties seized out of a warehouse where they'd been using them as guard dogs. One of the dogs was pretty even tempered I guess (at least from what I saw), but the other bit a police officer visiting the dogs not once, but twice, both times requiring medical attention. The bites seemed to come pretty much out of nowhere, one minute the dog was being petted, the next he was gnawing on the guy's hand. They still decided to try and rehab the dog and put it up for adoption. Was just wondering what anybody else thinks about this? Not even considering the dogs' breed, simply as a large dog that's bitten someone severely enough to need medical attention- twice. I thought the whole idea of adopting the dog out was pretty irresponsible, yeah, they did talk about finding a special home for the dog, but A. what seems like the best adoption cantidate can be... not; and B. how many other dogs will be turned away/die while they try to find the super responsible home this dog will need? They did have a behaviorist evaluate the dog, and he said that the dog had only been warning the guy off, but IMO, a dog that's warning someone off with a bite like that isn't a much better adoption cantidate than one that doesn't warn at all. Just the idea of them adopting out a dog like that seemed strange to me and even a bit scary, not a dog I'd want living down the road from me :-?

We have 2 APBTs... Goo [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/gooeydog/august/lsittied.jpg[/img] And Haley [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/gooeydog/august/dafroggiescutefacedeck.jpg[/img] [quote name='majiesmom']How come?[/quote] The AmStaff was derived from APBTs, when the AKC decided to recognize the breed, they allowed UKC registered APBTs to be registered as AmStaffs. So, basically, all AmStaffs came from APBTs, no other breed added in. Since the AmStaffs all have APBT (and only APBT)ancestors, they can also be registered as APBTs, but since many APBTs have ancestors other than those dogs the AKC accepted into their books as AmStaffs, they're not able to be registered as purebred AmStaffs. There are still dogs today that are registered with both registries (even some registered with AKC, UKC, and ADBA- an APBT only registry) The argument then becomes whether breeding away from one purpose (fighting- the UKC actually began as a fighting dog registry, hosted matches as well, before it turned the conformation registry we know it as today) and for another (conformation shows). The breeds have been seperate for around 70 yrs now, so the question becomes; are they still the same breed because they and UKC APBTs have been bred from the same basic stock, or are they different because there's been enough time for them to develop enough different traits from the APBT to be an entirely different breed? Then, to complicate matters, you have different factions in the same breeds, so you have 4 basic varieties of pit bull/AmStaff (at least the way I break it down)... -show only APBT/AmStaff- usually pretty similar in appearance to each other, the farthest in appearance from the APBt of old working APBT/AmStaff- also pretty similar in appearance, not nearly as overdone as show only dogs, but also not often as clearly made for -fighting as many performance bred APBTs, can also be conformation dogs, but aren't bred soley for what's winning in the ring, but rather what form is best suited for what the breeds do. -performance bred APBT- usually the closest in appearance to the original APBT -APBTs/AmStaffs not really bred for any purpose- these dogs make up the majority of APBTs, dunno about AmStaffs. They're usually pretty moderate dogs, some really poorly built, some built fairly well, some leaning toward performance/working build, others toward the conformation only type looks. Then there are the huge mastiff mixes, which can't really be considered APBTs anyway. There isn't actually an American Staffordshire Bull Terrier breed, but there are American Staffordshire Terriers and Staffordshire Bull Terriers, two different breeds. The latter has been a seperate breed from AmStaffs and APBTs longer than either of the two have been seperate, I'm guessing at least 100 yrs (SarahStaff can answer this better than me, as she has Staffordshire Bull Terriers). It is often included in BSL under the "pit bull" definition, but sometimes not. AmStaffs are almost always included, due to the debate as to whether they are or aren't the same breed as the APBT (doesn't help that many people often think the two names are interchangeable).

I know its really not your place, but do you think you could maybe offer to help the little girl learn some basic dog things, like help her teach the dog to sit, etc? It's not ideal (how ideal can you get in a situation like this), and it's not your job, but maybe at least the little girl can have something to do, and the dog will get attention as well. Dunno, maybe my thinking on this is wrong.... but thought I'd toss it out as an idea.

I'm so sorry HF :( You did all you could, and I'm sure the time he spent living with you was some of his best, though I know it's only small comfort.

Majiesmom, her teeth aren't too bad, tartar-wise, but she's got a few that are chipped (vet checked them briefly and said they didn't look too damaged, but that he'd take a better look at them when she was under anesthetic. SHe's had some tartar build up on them over the past few months as well, and it's hard to keep it off because the stuff seems to stick better to the chipped area than to the smooth enamel, so those areas probably do need cleaned now. It doesn't help that she's terrified of the vets, and the vet clinic (had some bad experiences there as a young dog), so she's not exactly cooperative. There are varing opinions on putting old dogs under, everything from it being extremely dangerous to it actually being safer than a younger dog (considering that a dog at an advanced age should be in pretty good health to still be active and in good shape, plus probably have already been put under at least once in their life and had no problems). People that I've talked to about it say there are a lot more types of anesthetic available now, and vets can choose which is best suited for the individual dog. It really is a double edged sword... on one hand, I don't want her to end up with her teeth causing her pain, or her having other problems from the tartar buildup; but on the other hand, I feel sick at the idea of something bad happening to her during the procedure.

Most senior foods put grain higher in the ingredient list than the meat ingredients, so the protein/fat in the food is lower, which is thought to be better for senior dogs. In most cases, a senior dog will do just as well (if not better, since most will do better with more meat in their food than grains) on a lower protein dog food suitable for adult dogs (some foods have a type suitable for "all ages", these are fine as well). Lamb formulas of foods are generally lower in protein/fat than chicken or beef formulas, if it helps in case you decide to just find a lower protein adult food. There has also been some debate on whether senior dogs really need a lower protein ratio, or whether they should still get the same amount, maybe even higher. The argument for this is that since their organs aren't running quite as effeciently as in the past, they need a little more nutrient input than a younger dog would, simply because they don't get as much nutrition out of the same amount of nutrients as they would have in their younger years. My senior dog is sensitive to many types of grains, so I didn't want to switch her to a food with more of them in it if I could help it at all. Instead, I switched to a dry food with a fairly low protein/fat (23%/13%, respectively), and lamb based canned food (she always been fed canned food, so I didn't want to eliminate it from her diet completely also with a slightly lower protein than other varieties of the same food). I change her feeding amounts based on how she looks, and what she's been doing, lucky for me, she's an easy dog to guage by that, and her weight's been steady for the past 6 months or so. SHe usually gets around 1.5 cups, 1/2 can every night. To fill her up more, I add water into her dry food a bit before she eats it and let it soak briefly before adding in the canned food and feeding her. Does your girl have weight problems? Or just starting to show signs of aging? If she's doing well on her current food, I'd just keep her on it until she shows otherwise.

How about bully sticks? Those are supposed to be all muscle meat, and even though they smell funny and are really disgusting, the dogs seem to like them a lot, plus Goo's never even gotten sick from one (this is the dog that pukes just looking at certain foods, it seems sometimes :roll: ). Petsmart (they haven't actually had any the last few times I've been there, dunno if they're still stocking them) and Petco both sell them, at like $5 apiece for the big ones, but you can buy them online for cheaper. I still wouldn't ever give one unattended, but I'd guess its probably safer than regular rawhide. Goo did manage to get a 3" or so long piece wedged between the space behind her lower molars and her upper mouth, and I had to reach in there and pull it out (one of the foulest things ever!) , so she gets them taken away now when they get to that size, but that's the only problem we've had.

Also... TDG, you mentioned in a reply to one of my posts a while abck that it'd be a good idea to actually increase her vit E supplement when she has this done. Should I only increase it after the procedure, or before, and by how much? I've read that vit E can cause excessive bleeding, though several people I've talked to have said it won't increase bleeding by enough to cause a problem. Do you know anything about this?

I've actually posted about this before, but this time, with a bit of a twist.... Probably within the next few months, all the dogs are going to be getting dentistries done. Of course, I'm worried about Goo being old (11 yrs, 12 in Feb/March of next year), and just looking for anything else to worry about because that's what I do :roll: My mother's always harping about how Goo is too skinny, which I generally ignore because the three dogs she feeds look like seals :lol: Buuutt.... I'm wondering if it isn't a bad idea to maybe fatten her up a bit before she gets this done (she's also got a few lumps that I'm going to have to have them check out, the vet said probably fatty tumors, but he'd check them more closely when she's under anesthetic and probably remove at least the biggest one, about quarter sized), just to have a bit of extra weight on her in case she doesn't eat well afterwards, or has any other problems. I try to keep her lean to keep as little strain as possible on her joints and heart, but would it be better to keep her that way for this, or add some security weight on? I don't think she's too skinny, but because she's an older dog and doesn't keep on the muscle definition as well as she did in her youth (she was never a real muscular dog, but she's a bit "softer" now), she does look a bit scrawny. You can't see her ribs, but can feel them easily, hipbones- can't see, but can feel pretty easily, backbone- can occasionally see a few vertebrae while standing, and can usually see 3 or 4 at least a bit when she lays curled up. Here are links to a few pics showing what sort of shape she's in, if it helps any: Standing: [url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/gooeydog/June/lstarebirdssunsch.jpg[/url] Laying straight: [url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/gooeydog/July/l4thlaystared.jpg[/url] Crappy picture, but shows what I mean about her backbone (it's a bit more pronounced when she lays curled up, but not too much): [url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/gooeydog/august/lcometotied.jpg[/url]

Your girl is still pretty young too, most large dogs don't really "come into their own" as far as personality goes until they're at least 18 months-2 yrs, some even older. It's possible that she didn't really sense a need to come to your defense in this case (was the door closed? if not, what was the guy doing physically?), but would react if you were physically threatened. It's also possible that she doesn't see much of anything as a threat, and would react as such. What exactly do you want her to do (not being sarcastic, just trying to get an idea of what sort of response you're looking for) in these situations?

I've heard in a few places that to get an idea as to whether your dog will respond to the sensation harness, you can try hooking your leash to the o-ring in the front of the harness (on the chest area). This is apparently pretty close to the other harness, so if your dog responds to it, it's pretty likely they'll respond to the special harness.

3, I think the problem most have is the fact that after preaching for years about pitxmastiff dogs being passed of as purebred APBTs, about responsible breeding being so important, about people wanting badass looking dogs ruining the breed's rep, etc; then for everyone to find out he was doing all the things he carried on all that time about as being wrong. It was classic "do as I say, not as I do", and then to have him come back and act as if everything is perfectly normal and he's done nothing wrong is more than annoying to people who'd believed him and thought he actually cared for the breed. Sure, he helped enlighten some people to the breed's nuances, but he has done/will do far more damage than that by his actions, which are polar opposite of his words. He admitted on one board that he knew his newest male dog was not a purebred APBT, and had mastiff mixed somewhere in the line, but said that he was saving it from becoming foundation stock for someone's BYB operation. Turns out he was really collecting it for his own, as a few weeks later he posted somewhere else under another name (same IP# as the first name, and past posts as himself) that he'd just bought the pup and was looking for opinions on what sort of breeding dog it'd be. When ratted out there, he first denied that he was himself, saying he'd never heard of the other dogs he owned, nor himself, then eventually caved and admitted the truth, saying that he felt his name had been tarnished, and that was why he felt compelled to use a different name to peddle his pup as a breeding dog. People here were quick to jump to his defense when they heard the accusations, and some were very reluctant to believe the things in front of them that proved he'd been lying all along, which is probably why they were quick to jump in and warn you (knowing that after being gone for so long, you wouldn't know what had happened) so as to keep you from being strung along.

I don't think any of you are really in the wrong, just trying to help :) Amber is right though that I don't have much say in Haley's medical care. We share the work involved in Haley's care, but I can't afford to properly take care of Haley considering that I also take care of Annie and Goo, who are both "my" dogs (I'm responsible for pretty much all their care, if I were to move out tonight, they'd be going with me). For those reasons, though I help take care of Hale, and can (and do) give my input on her care, the ultimate decision in how to handle something is my mothers. I try to take the best care I can of my two, and when I can, I make suggestions to my mom for the others, but that's about all I can do. My mom actually was going to get a glucometer when she was first diagnosed, as her sugar levels were all over the place until we got her weight back up (and up and up :roll: ), but she didn't get around to looking until around the time she was better regulated, and Hale's vet said it probably wouldn't be necessary, as long as she was brought in for regular checks. From what I've read and seen at the vets (plus a few diabetic relatives), the urine tests aren't nearly as accurate as the blood tests, the urine models only measure sugar expelled in the urine (ie: high sugar in urine=high blood sugar), but won't tell you much if the dog is in the normal or low range, a blood meter is much more accurate. Court, in checking with other diabetic dog owners, it seems you can take blood from the tail (I'm guessing underneath, where there isn't much hair), the inside of the lip, between the toes, or under the flap of the ear. I don't think she'd put up too much fuss (do the lancets hurt more or less than a shot from a 29g needle?), but someone else would definitely be holding her to be sure.

Well, it really isn't too hard to tell them apart, Haley's neck is white, Goo's is nearly black. I've gotten so used to giving the shots though that going through the motions are automatic, so I don't really pay close attention to what I'm doing until I actually give the shot, though now I know I can't trust the little sneaks to not try to confuse me, hehe. Court, we don't test at home, though I've told my mom (about half dozen times) we probably should. She goes in to work with my mom (at the clinic where her vet works) every few weeks and gets tested, but I know it'd be better if it was done more often. My mom thinks though that we'd have to draw blood like the vets do to test, and doesn't want to do that so often (I've tried to explain to her that you can use the lancets just like people, but she doesn't believe me). I think she'd probably do ok for it, though it might take some time for her to understand the addition to the routine.

Earlier this evening, I came home from eating dinner at my aunt's so I could give Haley her shot, still a bit preoccupied by that. Got the shot ready, grabbed the treats that both she and Goo get (Goo is jealous that Haley gets something that she doesn't, so the treats are the least I can do :roll: ), and headed over beside the dining room table as is our routine. Meanwhile, both dogs are dancing around me like idiots, and my mom is telling me something or other, so I'm trying to listen to her. Haley came over and sat in her usual spot, I reached down, pulled up her collar so I'd have room to give the shot, grabbed the needle, and pulled up her skin..... then looked down to give the shot, only to realize I was holding a piece of BRINDLE skin in my hand! There sat Goo, pleased as punch that she was finally getting to get a shot instead of Haley :lol: Haley was sitting a little way off, probably hoping I wouldn't notice the difference in dog.... sneaky little beasts.

The link to the story didn't work, asked for a login. This site: [url]http://www.understand-a-bull.com/[/url] has lots of pit bull info and even a page (with printable booklets) especially for fighting BSL. You can also try contacting the ADOA (American Dog Owners' Association, [url]http://www.adoa.org[/url] ), hopefully they can help, even if just to help get the word out. I would ask them if they can give you any info as to the ineffectiveness of BSL, as I know at least one has been working hard trying to get a breed ban repealled due to ineffectiveness. Check to see what sort of dog laws are already on the books in your area, and maybe suggest better enforcement or better generic dangerous dog laws (depending on how good the current laws are) as a better alternative to BSL. Good to see you back! Desertlady, there already are laws on the books in most places that would prevent quite a few dog attacks from occurring. Leash laws, if enforced, would keep strays from attacking people, forming packs and terrorizing people, or attacking peoples' pets. There are also dangerous dog laws that cover all breeds, labeling a dog as dangerous if it has bitten, or is known to show aggression towards people. How many times have you read of dozens of people coming forward after a dog attack to say, "I knew that dog was dangerous, he's always out roaming and has growled at me x times... I knew someone was going to be hurt by him"? If you know a dog to pose a real threat to people, don't sit back and wait for it to kill someone, report it and see to it that it's checked into. Another thing is that animal control is often non-responsive to complaints, brushing people off with a, "can't do anything until someone's been bitten" or "well, if you want to catch the dog and hold it until someone can pick it up...". If they'd paid more attention to complaints by people in that apartment complex in SF., CA, that woman would never have been killed by the Presas a few years ago. I've called myself a few times about loose, aggressive acting dogs approaching myself or my dogs, and everytime I've been fed the "can't do anything until they actually harm someone" line of BS. There needs to be more public awareness as to how to prevent dog attacks, and what to do about possibly dangerous dogs, as well as more effort put out on the part of the government to follow up on reports of dangerous dogs. To add to the above, if AC can't even enforce a leash law (how hard can it be; dog on leash- good job, dog not on leash- ticket), how are they supposed to enforce BSL which will require them to actually go out and ID dogs as x banned/restricted breed, file paperwork, take dog, fine owner (if they actually do)? [quote]The card said he was a stray, so how can they know he was not agression trained?[/quote] How do they know any dog coming in as a stray isn't aggression trained? People will use whatever is available if they want to make a nasty dog, it just happens that pits are pretty easy to come by these days. That's not to say though that a GSD mix (for example) or any other dog can't have been abused, "trained" to guard, or seen a few impromptu street fights in its time. Sure, this dog could have an ugly past behind him, but so could (and do) any other strays coming in off the streets. The other night while walking our older APBT, some kids (16 yrs old or so now) were out sitting at the school and when they saw us started talking amongst themselves about dogs, speculating as to whether one of their dogs (a young GSD mix) "could kick that dog's a**", and recanting the scraps he's been in. This dog could easily end up in a shelter and be adopted out, as from what I've seen, he has an ok temperament, despite that fact that he doesn't get treated so well. If a person doesn't know enough about dogs to evaluate (at least basic temperament wise) a pit bull, they really don't have much business doing so with any dog. A dog with a bad temperament is a dog with a bad temperament, no matter the breed. In the same, a dog with a good temperament is just that, no matter its breed or past. This page (at the bottom, rescue stories) has some stories of rescued pit bulls that have suffered from horrible abuse or neglect in some cases, yet still have the good temperament typical of the breed: [url]http://www.pbrc.net/smile/happyend.html[/url]. As far as "aggression training", pit bulls will fight without training, though some ignorant owners certainly do think they must train their dog to fight by baiting it, beating it, etc. This generally doesn't make a better fighting dog, just a more abused and beaten up dog. The question with this would be as with any other abused dog.... is this dog still mentally sound enough to adopt out safely? The other two things you included, trained to guard and be vicious to anyone but their owner.... well, they would be quite obvious in most cases, as a dog that can't be touched by anyone or that guards its kennel with a vengeance is not a good adoption cantidate, regardless of breed.

HF, do you know if there was any runover of sewage nearby where you are? When our area flooded last fall, we had a lot of oil and sewage in the water from the pumping station and people's oil tanks floating out or breaking open and leaking. Even in areas that hadn't been under the water, you could see a slick of oil over the grass, and it took several good rains to get it out, so it seems that it worked its way through the soil. Just wondering if that couldn't be what happened to your guys. As far as disinfecting your yard, dunno, maybe get one of those weed sprayers you hook to your house (the ones that hold just solution, and when the hose is on, the solution is squirted out with the water) and fill it with bleach, then use the hose to water down the yard after each trip outside?

All good stuff to know, thanks guys :) Annie is the one I worry about as far as gulping food, she's so worried that someone else might get what she has that as soon as you come near, she's trying her best to swallow it whole (she once ate one of those furry mouse cat toys when my nephew tried to take it from her, I had to make her puke it back up), even if she's in her crate. She has gotten better about it, but still will try sometimes if she has something really good. I'm just worried that when I go to take the bone (if it's getting too small, or she's had enough for one day) that she's going to try to scarf down whatever she has left whole. Would it be better to hold it while she chews, at least until she gets more relaxed about having them and it isn't such a rare treat? Dogpaddle, you think that getting the bone cut in half lengthwise would help to prevent them from getting stuck on it? That's something one of ours would end up doing, I'm sure :roll: And one more thing, if a dog has shown to not tolerate certain meats in foods well, is it best to avoid giving those types of bone as well? Just wondering, as foods/treats containing lots of beef make Goo sick, so if beef bones are likely to do the same, I'd rather avoid them from the start. I think initially I'm going to get them from a store, but my dad occasionally does some work at a local slaughterhouse, so if the bones end up being a regular part of their diet, he could probably get them from there as well. Any concerns with that as opposed to buying from the store?

Could he have been bitten by ants? Just something else that came to mind....

Could his eyesight be going? That might explain his not wanting to go outside, staring at the ceiling, and his being spooked when your husband leaned over to him. I'd have him checked out by his vet when you can, just to see if there's some physcial reason for him doing this.

After going back and forth on it for a while, I'm more seriously considering giving the dogs raw bones to chew on every so often. Especially Annie, who has the most hideous breath (health probs have been ruled out, vets say it's just because she's small and plaque accumulates between her teeth more than for larger dogs, causing worse odor), she's had her teeth cleaned at the vets a few times, but within a year, needs it again, and I don't like the idea of having to be put under so often, so the idea of bones cleaning the teeth makes it sound even better. I don't know that I'll be giving Goo any, at least not at first, as she's much more sensitive to food changes than Annie (who has about a cast iron stomach), plus I have some concerns about bacteria (even though I know it's said that dogs can handle it) since she's an older dog. I've done some reading on it over the years (more to do still if I do decide to give it a try), and know different people like to do things differently, so I thought I'd see what people here do. - Where do you get your bones from? - What size/proportions/cuts have you found to be best for your dogs? - Do you sterilize them in any way before feeding? - If you feed raw bones and kibble, is there still the concern as with feeding a partial raw/partial kibble diet? - How often can you feed bones without worrying about upseting the balance of nutrients in the dog's current diet? - Does anyone have a dog that tends to gulp food if they feel they might get it taken either by people or other dogs? And if so, how do you deal with it? - What problems (even if they weren't really big problems) did/have you had in feeding raw bones? - I also remember reading of a few people who feed raw, but do not give bones, and I'd be interested in seeing why that is as well.

Internal bleeding is more of a worry in a situation like this, so be sure you check the cat over as soon as you get a chance. Even bruises (which are just blood trapped under the skin) can be serious if in the right spot, so you don't want to miss something that might become a bigger problem.

The expression on his face looks remarkably like Haley's did in a pic I had of her... I'd post it, but I deleted it the other day. From the pic, I could probably go along with pit mix, it looks like he has a pretty pitish expression, and his jawline looks more defined than most GSD or lab x's I know.

Helped a lot, as usual :) One more question though.... with the glucosamine, should I just go ahead and get the Glucosamine/Chondroitin combo supplement, if I have the option of that or plain Glucosamine? And if I give both or all three (MSM, Glucosamine, Chondroitin), do I give lower doses of each, or the full dose of each still?

Went to petsmart yesterday with my aunt and a friend so they could get some fish, and while we were there, this man came in with a big intact lab in a spiked collar. The dog was skiing him all around, and he was being SO LOUD.... "ROCK, NO, THOSE PEOPLE DON'T WANT A BIG DOG BOTHERING THEM", etc... he was more disturbing to us than his dog was. I was looking for something for Goo to gnaw on, as I heard the dog barking. Turns out the guy had the dog back by the cats up for adoption, and was telling him, "get those cats!", and egging him on as he barked and carried on at the cats in the kennels. Then they disappeared for a few minutes, and as I went towards the next aisle, I ran almost into them. The guy was in the middle of one side of the aisle, the dog across the rest of it, so I said "excuse me", thinking he'd move the dog or move out of the way so I could get by. Instead he stood there and watched as the dog ran into my legs, then lifted his leg and peed all over one of the stands, then said, "watch out, he'll pee on you, he likes to pee on things". At that point I was like this :o :evilbat: and the thought crossed my mind to tell him that if he let his dog pee on my leg, I'd kick him in the ba**s, but I figured I'd do better to just keep my mouth shut and get away from him. People can be so annoying sometimes! :roll: