Gordonmom

Bitter Apple worked for me.

It was my understanding that the only suspected cased of transmission to humans were those three hunters from Minnesota. Have there been more cases identified, and where were they?

Yes Bensam, I do have Gordons! They are a lot of dog! My girls breeder raised them until she was seventy. She used to have and area called the paddack that she would let them play in, so they wouldn't get lost on her 80 acres. Well, one day one of the dogs jumped on her when she was putting him in there, and it wound up that he was free, and she was locked inside because he had jammed the door. Her husband was mowing the lawn so he didn't hear her screaming! Then when she got out, the same dog jumped up again and knocked her out cold! So now she raises Cotons :lol: I have been trying to figure out what smaller dog I will eventually go to. I don't know, I'm a big dog kinda gal. And training thos small dogs in obedience is murder on your back!

Welllll....OK, 47. But a young 47. :lol: :lol:

I always uses venison treats in dog training. I ask all the hunters I know to save the heart and liver for me, since they usually throw this away anyway. I cook it up, and freeze it for all year. I read the article about the TSE in a Minnesota (I think, I still have the article around here somewhere!) newspaper when it came out. The story was that three hunters that went to the same big game dinners all died of this disease, so they are thinking of a possible cross-over to humans. The only problem with this is, that all the other people that went to these dinners, and other people in these mens families did not catch this disease. While the disease is not new, what is new is that it is crossing over (maybe) into humans. I think it is somehting to watch, but I would be more worried of getting lymes disease or tuberculosis from the deer.

I would have to agree that socialization and training are not always the answer to behavior problems in dogs. Since dogs are another species, NO human can say why a particular dog is behaving in the manner they are. However, I believe that it is the root of most dog troubles. This is assuming there have been no other variables added. Was the pup kept with his mother for the full 8 weeks before separation? Was the damn given adequate nutrition during gestation? Was the pup adequately ventilated after delivery? Was the pup kept warm? Was the pup dropped on his head? Does the dog have a genetic problem that is making him ornary? Was the pup carried around by a child in a poor manner? Was the pup cued at a young age that the benefit of this behavior was worth the punishment? Is the owner afraid of his dog? Is the owner afraid of punishing the dog in a harsh manner? (I do not condone this except in the most extreme cases). Is the owner treating the dog like a dog or a little human? Is the owner mis reading the dogs cues? Has the owner taught the dog not to give cues? (No growling, my personal pet-peeve). If you believe that bad breeding produces bad dogs in dogs, then you also have to believe that bad breeding in people produces bad people. I don't know. But it is hard to tell if criminals are the result of their genetic make-up or the enviornment in which they were raised. There is also the personality question that has to be asked. Some dogs, like people, are easy-going. Some are difficult to deal with. I have to believe that how that personality trait is shaped, is a lot how the dog or person will act. And if it is the result of bad breeding, then pit-bull owners just better agree with the fact that there are TONS of bad pit-bull breeders out there, and that the media has the right to condemn a dog on generalizations.

No Deep, I haven't seen it before. And I wish I would never have to see it or hear it happening again.

Alrighty then Hmmmmm, are you excited by the response you got from this board? I have to be thinking that anyone with thirty-two adult dogs is getting his (or her) entertainment from tension between the masses. With thirty-two dogs, we know that you don't have time to give them any individual attention and training. You shouldn't even have time to be on this web-site. Do you have a real job, or is your job producing puppies? I would welcome a debate with you on canine behavior. Unfortunately, since we have to use words instead of brawn to convey our messages (I'm a wimp anyway, I own Setters) I wonder if you are up to the challenge. We can start out with the justification of owning thirty-two dogs, and how the characteristic traits displayed by your dogs are not the result of improper training and socialization but rather that of a specific breed trait. Hope to here your reply soon Hmmmm.

I have to tell you guys this. We started a new class isn dog class last night and there is this little old lady with this pit bull. She has to be 100. One of the other people in class asked her what kind of dog it was, and she says "Pit bull. I raise them" And she is just a training, and the rest of the class doesn't know what to think. I am just cracking up!! :lol: :lol:

OK. LOOT.com Unbelievable. I take back eveything I said in my earlier post. These people are just scum.

Just any old scientist :D . The theory now adays is that any form of evolutionary change is brought about by us, and therefore is controled. Such as Bald eagles becoming extinct. They were becoming extinct because humans put the pesticide in the water, which made their eggs fragile. When their numbers were dangerously low, we banned the pesticides, and their numbers are returning. We are killing off the killer whales, because of the amount of PCB's in thier system. With natural selection, it is not usually the top of the food chain that gets bumped out. Most killer whales cannot make it to their second birthday. However, now their are plans to try to reintroduce the captive killer whales that still have maintained the language of their pod back into the wild to try and get a healthier group of whales out their. This intervention of first killing them off, then reintroducing them is contrary to natural selection. When we control the enviornment, we control change. If the earth is getting hotter, we build air conditioning, we do not force those of us that cannot adapt to change or perish. When we get sick, we go to the doctor and get healed rather than being strong enough to cure ourselves or die. We do not allow change to effect us in ways that the weak will be naturally selected out. If change does happen, we compensate for it not by weeding out those that cannot adapt to the change, but rather controling how the change will affect us. If evolution were taking place, I gotta believe their would be no toy dogs. I cannot imagine a pack of Pomeranians terrorizing the neighborhood before they were wiped out. So therefore physical evolution has been halted. There can be changes made, like a bullboxer or something, but that is not an evolutionary change. That is just a cosmetic change. We are controling the breeding of these dogs. Is any of this clear or was I just rambling??

Ok, my two cents. Dogs in the wild have upright ears because they have to have the ability to heare predetors. That is why the ears are erect and can move about forward and backward. That is why herding dogs have upright ears. Hunting dogs developed drop ears as protectinon from the bruch when having their nose to the ground. Guest made a ridiculous statement when equating ear cropping with tattoos. When he stated that you cannot tell if a tattoo hurts unless you have had one, I say that unless he has had his ears cropped, he cannot tell if that hurts. I do know my ears hut when I had them pierced. I can imagine what it would feel like to have them chopped off. The majority of scientists have basically come to the conclusion that evolution and natural selection have come to a halt, simply because evolution involves CHANGE and we have taken that out of the equation. What they agree about now is that now that physical evolution has ceased, we are now going through a period of MENTAL evolution. Some will survive and prosper, some will perish. Old ways of thinking should be revisited, and thoughts of just is right for the betterment of all animals on this earth should be given consideration.

OK, OK I voted :lol: . How on earth did you find a pitbull poll in some paper in IOWA :lol:

OK, I'm really going to give these people the benefit of the doubt. What if this situation was looked at with the idea that they are looking out for the best interests of their puppies. For some reason, which I personally don't understand, but most people feel that if they pay a lot for something that it must be worth having. So, if I charge someone $600 for one of my dogs, and tell these people how wonderful these dogs are, and that is why I am charging so much, these people will take that dog and feel that because they spent a lot of money on it, it must be a "good" dog. (I use "I" in a theoretical sense, as I do not breed any dogs). If a person only pays $60 for a dog, that dog becomes a cheap commodity, as it's value is less and therefore it's worth is less. So the person that has to have the big house, and new car, now has a designer dog, because he paid a lot of money for it. Is this wrong? OF COURSE IT IS WRONG! But society is crazy. In a capitalist society, people will charge what they can get. They play on peoples vanity, and people fall into the trap. It is not the people selling the dogs who are at fault. It is the stupid people with mixed up values buying them.

Here is a wesite for those of you who are interested in de-cyphering what is in your dog food! [url]http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wolfepack/foodcht1.html[/url]

When we loose our ability to reason, we do lose our rights. That's why we have laws. Hobbit, I grew up in the city and I REALLY have learned to like dogs rather than people :lol:

I understand what you are trying to say, Hobbit, and I am actually a child welfare advocate also. The only difference when comparing an animals rights to a humans, is that with a human we have the ability to sit down and try to explain to them that with their rights come the responsibility to respect the rights of others. People (hopefully) can be reasoned with to act responsibly. No matter how much I talk to MacKenzie (who, by the way is the smartest dog on earth :D ) she would not get that my neighbor also has rights, so she cannot go killing her cat. I'm hopeing I could get this concept through to a child. As for spaying people, I'm not going to go there either, because we think the same. But hopefully, we can eventually reason with people to see a kinder, gentler society. I know I could never convince MacKenzie (the genius) to just say no if Mr. stud showed up at my door at the right time. And the only reason people don't have the right to drink and drive is because if they did then they would be infringing on the rights of others. A dog doesn't have the right to cross the street because he doesn't know the result that this action would cause him. Humans have rights because I can explain to you that your rights stop where my nose begins. With my dog, her rights stop where I choose them to stop, not when she chooses them to stop, for her own protection and the protection of other people and animals. Your arguments don't neccessarily think that animals should have rights, just that some of the rights of humans should be taken away. Do you think this would be a good thing or a bad thing?

Well I scored a 60, but I am not an animal rights advocate. I am an animal welfare advocate. I believe that in society today you cannot give animals rights because they do not have the ability to defend those rights. Here are some examples: You piss a dog off, he bites you. If he had rights, then this would be OK, because it would be his right to defend himself. I beleive it is in the dogs best welfare to train this dog that biting is unacceptable. I am looking out for the dogs best welfare. Do I believe I can make everyone not eat pork, and let pigs run free, and possibly go get hit by cars and who knows what else, because it is their right? No. Do I believe that it is my responsibility that as long as I place a pig on this earth that I make sure his stay here, though it may be short, is as pleasant as possible, i.e. look out for his welfare? Yep. Do I believe that a dog has the right not to be spayed and produce as many puppies as she wants, as that is her right? No. It is my duty to look out for her best welfare. Is it my duty to say that animals can't be uses in research, because it is there right to live free, even though they would not even be alive if it was not for this research? No. Is it my duty to look out for an animals best welfare by exploring other options for this research using computer models instead of animals, and to make sure that if an animal is used it would be the ONLY way to test something and the animal would be treated humanely? yes. Does a dog have the right to cross a six lane highway to play on the other side?

The bible says that dogs will not go to heaven because they don't have souls. Well, I know my dogs have gone to heaven, because they have all taken a part of my soul. By the way, is it true what that guy who responded to the article in the paper said about ALL pit bull owners sky-dive, ride Harleys and party all night? :lol:

Gordon Setters are also always black with the tan muzzle, and tan spots on eyes, legs and bum. But they have long hair. I would post a picture, but it is going to take me years to figure out how!

I once buried a dog in my back yard. All these people were telling mw that there were laws on how deep the hole had to be and stuff. So here I am, already upset because my dog had died, just digging away. That hole was so deep, I think if they dug a basement in that spot they still wouldn't reach that dog, LOL.

My survey is in also. Unfortunately, my breed of dog was not listed, so I had to pick a Golden Setter rather than my Gordon Setters. :D

Most veterinarians around here (Michigan, USA) charge about $50 US dollors for euthanasia. All vets that I know of donate this money to the veterinary school from which they graduated, in memory of your pet. The vet school then sends you a letter. It is very comforting. Cremation usually depends on the size of the dog, and if you want the ashes in an urn or just returned. One dog I just had returned, because I spread her ashes in her favorite lake. The other I had put in an oak box and sealed, she sits by my bed. This was awhile ago, but the cost was between $100-$150 US dollars. I think if you trust your vet, they will not take advantage of you in your time of grief.

Good afternoon guys. Wendy stated: Your opinions are not going to change the way people think or what they believe: I guess it all depends on if the listener tends to enter a conversation with his mind closed or open. Change does not always come easy, but it can come, just by enlightening one person at a time. I always find discussions with people that are afraid of pits interesting. I ask them if they are afraid of chickens also. Cock fighting has been around longer than dog fighting and I think those people should be afraid of roosters also. And as for fighting a pit rather than a Neo? I don't think human could give up the control, Even with two pits, their owners could do something to break up a fight---maybe. Two Neos? You don't see many woman fighting dogs. In my opinion, it is men who feel lacking in their masculinity that try to make up for their weaknesses by having some dog that people are terrified of. It's my dog is better than your dog gone crazy. No inadequate man is going to try and make a poodle or spaniel be mean. But a big, muscular dog with a reputation, now that is cool for the insecure. The dog itself doesn't matter. Unfortunately these wackos ruin it for the rest of the people that just like big muscular dogs. Because it is only the people that need to counter their insecurity that are using their dog as a tool and not as a life long friend. I would worry more about drowning in a Neo's slobber that his PSI.

I don't believe anyone is wrong here. If you have a dog that you correct, and the behavior stops, then what you do is working. I know my dogs are trained to go outside to barf or poop, because they ring the chimes for me to let me know. I also know that they can hold it all day, and if they go in the house it is an accident. Their are many, many different ways to train dogs, and anyone that says theirs is the "best" or "only" way is fibbing. You have to know your dog, and you have to have your own style. But if I have an ongoing problem, such as I come home to poop in the house day after day, my opinion is that the dog just wants attention, And I would use any option I had to solve the problem, starting with the positive re-inforcement one. However when Dreamer, my seven year old was a puppy, she loved to chew my books. I guess dogs think the glue tastes good. I tried everything. Finally, about the 18th book, and all this dog therapy, I went crazy. I pick up the book and threw it across the room, I told her I was going to kill her if she ate another book, I didn't hit her, but I was close. To this day she has not touched one of my books. Go figure!! I hope I never get that angry again in my life, it was so scarey!