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  1. 1. Is it ever ok to buy a dog from a back yard breedeer, even if you like the dog and want to keep if for yourself. (DivineOblivion19, I'm going to use you as an example, great example of the reasons educated people buy from BYBs.) The only exception I can see (this is even stretching it) is in a case like Divina- pup was already there to be killed, she just gave the lady a few bucks to claim the pup. (for Bostons, 40 bucks is pretty much nothing). You didn't ask to be in the situation where you decided life and death for a puppy- you just ended up there by chance. I know that feeling all too well and it sucks. In a case like Cori, I disagree. First of all, someone who goes to a BYB's house knows what they are getting into. It is not forced upon you nor does it happen by chance. In this case, I also doubt the motive for the purchase - you go to the house looking for a dog of X breed and leave with what you want. It's easy and it's tempting- no rigors of screening by a responsible breeder or waiting for exactly what you want to end up in the shelter. Often, I feel the motive for these purchases is selfish. Sure, it was sad that the dog was in bad shape. But BYBs count on sympathy to sell their 'pathetic' dogs. You don't save a dog- you get had and buy a sick dog. One dog comes out of the deal well, but what about her mom? Sentenced to another litter no doubt. This sympathy buying supports unethical breeding practices and the actions hurt more dogs than they help. We had a terrible persian breeder in town for years. About twice a year, she would dump excess breeding stock (sometimes at the pound, sometimes at some poor vet's office). They were always matted and extremely sick. We all knew the store (grooming shop) she operated out of. After rehabing one of the dumped girls and placing her in an awesome home, I wanted so badly to go in and buy the lady out or at least rescue my girl's sister. I knew it would happen if I stepped in that shop again, so I kept far away from it. Point being, if you know you will be tempted to buy a BYB dog don't put yourself in the situation. Don't stop at flea markets and pet, don't call numbers in the paper, don't go into pet stores that sell dogs.. 2. Is it ever ok for a rescuer to accept a dog from a back yard breeder? Free? Sure. Do it all the time. Where is a better place for an unaltered purebred than with a rescue? The first time we were contacted to do this on a large scale (over 20 breeding dogs) the rescue I am with resisted for the reasons many of you give. We were sadly mistaken. The breeder didn't give a damn where the dogs went, just wanted them out. So they were given away in front of a grocery store in the middle of a mill town. Intact breeding pairs, pregnant bitches, puppies too young to be weaned, the whole deal. Absolutely tragic- with some time and effort we could have fixed everyone up and adopted this breed out easily. Mistake made, lesson learned, won't make it again. 3. Is it ever ok for rescue organizations to accept money from breeders, good or bad? Money is money. I don't care where it comes from. 4. If you do any of the above, are you condoneing or supporting their practices? One, yes. Two you're just cleaning up the mess. Three you're just being realistic.
  2. Very cute! Love the blue eye. I know a pit/heeler who looks a lot like her- fun dog!
  3. When your dog has a litter, you are a breeder. Calling someone anything else removes the responsibility. Rather it was planned or not, when a dog in your care has puppies you are responsible for those lives (and in most cases the deaths they cause). As for the planned or not, I believe that all litters are planned on some level. If they weren't, then why wouldn't the bitch be spayed? (rather the right male got to her or rather it was on the right heat is irrevelant- a litter was still planned, and there it is!) (obviously, if you take in a dog that is about to whelp the term breeder doesn't apply, but that isn't often the case) What is animal control like in your area? Where I live, if an unaltered animal is picked up by AC it is altered before being returned. So if you ever get to petsit for the labs....
  4. Well said HorseFeathers. As for the breeders on petfinder, no kidding! Luckily, they're usually pretty obvious though (the fact that the pups aren't fixed and there are no adult dogs avaliable :roll:) Raising the adoption fee also gives 'average' dogs a chance. When someone is looking for a big puppy and you have a litter of black GSD mixes and these flashy Newfs, Average Pet Owner will want the pretty purebreds rather it is the right choice or not. The fee helps them make the decision, gives the less desirable pups a chance and prevents a flood of inappropriate applications on the Newf pups. It would probably be a good thing if the female pups are split up- that is a lot of dog for one person, and at that age pups should be easily seperated regardless of history. [/quote]
  5. Those are the prettiest Newfies I've ever seen! They are very lucky to have found their way into a good rescue. As for the adoption fee, why the anger? Any dedicated Newfie seeker would tell you that 500 dollars is nothing for a fully vetted baby. (Vets charge by size for spay/neuter- if you think getting your dog fixed was expensive!). Plus, if a potential owner cannot pay that upfront, they are not ready for the vet bills. (newfiemom, I'm sure you have stories!) Ideally, adoption fees should be equal and cheap. Let's be honest though- there will be a line of people who will gladly pay 500 dollars for these puppies. It will not hurt their chances to find responsible homes. If they can charge a higher adoption fee to help cover costs for special needs/less desirable dogs in the program, why not? I'm sure they eat huge vet bills all the time. Look at the number of senior dogs on the site who have needed special vet care- they can't ask higher adoption fees for them to help cover their vet care because they might not even be adopted if they were 'free'. And then there are the dogs they take in and vet who will never make it to adoption- all the parvo litters they lose, the HBCs they try to save..
  6. Thanks Malamum and HF for clearing that up for everyone. I would NEVER suggest dishonesty with an adopter. Ever. As for the selection process, please don't judge until you've been there. No rescuer can save everyone. The comments about rather having a pit than a poodle may hold true at your house, but they certainly are not the general opinions of the pet owning public. The group took in a pit mix pup almost 3 years ago. Despite a crazy number of obedience classes, advertising (T.V., radio, newspaper) and adoption events, the group still has him. We will probably always have him. In contrast, during those three years they have placed around 300 poodles and poodle mixes. Do you think it would be a good idea to take in more pits OR more poodles? (thanks again HF for your explanation, I know it is better than mine!) I'm seeing that there is a large demographic of pet owners here who are not involved in rescue. This is great, I really need an opinion from your side of the fence- How much would you be willing to hear before it crossed the line from educational to depressing? Is using a sob story to get donations appropriate or does it just upset you?At what point do you feel you are being 'lectured' rather than having a conversation? What things would you find to be a major turn off at an adoption event? Thanks, your input is valuable! (always trying to improve things where we can in the customer service department!)
  7. I trust that most of you are active in rescue, so you are not shocked by anything anymore. Sometimes I forget that not everyone is accustomed to the things we hear every day and I'm not sure how much to tell people. For example, when at adoption events, people often ask for a dogs history, and if it is a puppy they want to know if we saw mom and dad, etc. Often, we honestly don't know, the pup just came out of the shelter. Sometimes, we know what happened to mom and dad but we're not sure if they want to hear it (mom and dad were so torn up that there was nothing we could do, mom, dad and about 20 of his relatives came from a hoarder and only he was salvagable, unpleasant things like that). So do we just tell them size and breed and leave the rest? Or do they need to know? With dogs who have been nursing pups recently, people always ask "Oh, where are the puppies?". Sometimes, it is a happy ending or maybe the pups are avaliable in our group, but the sad reality is that we do take mothers without their pups (weaned, of course) if we know the pups will be hard to place (for example, if mom is a cute poodle mix but the puppies look like pits). Do you tell the folks that we left them behind? Or just pretend we don't know?Or when we take half of a litter because we only have foster homes for 5 pups, how do we address the 'is this the whole litter?' question? Most people will not be understanding when you tell them that the shelter killed the puppies, they will be mad at us and mad at the shelter. (They will not, however, offer to foster puppies or adopt anything hard to place). I want to tell them, but I don't want people to avoid adoption events because they are sad. How much can you reveal without repeling people? I don't want adoption events to be depressing- adoption events are happy, friendly and we want people to want to come. At the same time, I really want to convey how desperate the need is for foster homes, donations, volunteers, adopters, etc. How do you handle this?
  8. I honestly would pass on this breeder. The contracts are.. unsettling. Certainly not the kind of support I would want when making such a huge and important purchase! 1 year for Hip Displaysia? Wow.. that's helpful. And they'll only help by replacing your pup once you kill it. No help with surgery costs or anything- how much faith do you think they have in their breeding stock with a contract like this? Are you really looking to pay a small fortune for a dog, and in two years pay another for hip surgery and rehab? The reccomend obedience classes. If I was placing dogs like that (let's be honest here, those dogs are large and powerful enough that if they decided to snack on you in the middle of night, you would never wake up), I would be requiring X amount of training classes with a trainer using methods I approve of before X age. I think that any good breeder of a breed like Corsos would. They care about their dogs and don't want them ending up on the front page of the newspaper under the headline 'Viscious Dog Eats Toddler' after the new owner neglects to train and supervise. Perhaps most importantly, any good breeder (or rescue) will take back a dog at any time during the dog's life for any reason. This breeder reserves the right to refuse.. perhaps leaving you stranded if the unthinkable were to happen. (Plus, are they assuming that their pups may grow into dogs that even they can't/don't want to handle or live with?) And just as a side note, the males aren't titled at all... (she says that one male has great confirmation and excellent temperment, I say prove it!). I say keep looking. And do consider rescue- it is a noble thing to do, and there is nothing wrong with the dogs that end up there, they just got unlucky the first time around (and perhaps had a breeder that 'reserves the right to refuse' the return of pups..) Here's a girl in California that sounds like she fits your needs.. if you are looking to take a road trip. [url]http://www.operationk9rescue.com/av-detail.asp?DID=276&p=10[/url] (California would be a nice change from Michigan for a little while, consider it!) A dreamy black brindle male with a rescue in Texas who knows what they're doing. They are willing to assist with transport. [url]http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=4837758&adTarget=&SessionID=42f76c061b2a29e9-app2&display=&preview=1&row=0&tmpl=&stat=[/url] A litter of Corso pups in PA! Males, Females and mom! [url]http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=4889185&adTarget=&SessionID=42f76c061b2a29e9-app2&display=&preview=1&row=0&tmpl=&stat=[/url] There are several others in rescue as well. Do consider it- uncommon breeds don't end up in shelters everyday, but homes suitable for these uncommon breeds don't come along very often either.
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