disSanFranchised

Argh: [url]http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/07/06/BAG0C7H3811.DTL[/url] Those who feel compelled to write, feel free. We've also been told to c.c. the reader rep: [email][email protected][/email] and [email][email protected][/email] Ick.

Off another board: If you look at the breeds responsible for the most dog bite fatalities over the years, the breed at the top of the list is always the most numerous large breed. 30 years ago it was Dobies and GSDs. Note that the actual number of dog bite fatalities has remained constant at around 12 deaths/year. Also note that in the case of a "mixed breed" dog, each supposed breed gets counted. So, for example, if a pit/rottie mix causes a fatality, both "pit bulls" and rottweiler's tally gets increased by one. This means that if you add up the number of deaths attributed to all breeds the total exceeds the actual number of deaths. Without information on the absolute number of each breed, the total deaths caused by a breed is meaningless in terms of the breed's temperment. If half the large dogs in shelters are pits (certainly a low estimate), one might conclude that half the large dogs around are pits, and half the dog bite fatalities would logically be expected to be caused by pits. This doesn't mean pit bulls are inherently more vicious than other breeds, it just means there are a lot of them out there these days. Not to mention the misappropriation of both mixed-breed pits and just random mutts who may or may not resemble pits as "pit bulls."

asshat: (n) a$$-hat A person who has his or her head so far up his or her own a$$ that this person is wearing said a$$ as a hat.

ill save you the one with the big hed. rare blues! and lilac. blue is so last year, gunther is lilac and has RARE BLUE EYES. actually rare blue eye. his left eye is gray, right one is blue. RARE RARE RARE different color eyes. and pandora has lab in her which makes her coat waterproof. LILAC WATERPROOF PIT BULL PUPPIES DIFFERENT COLOR EYEZ BIG HEDS ACT NOW!

Why on earth are you affording this person your attention? Some people thrive on negative attention. I for one think far too much energy has been wasted on a tired old blowhard. Primrose isn't even interesting enough for *me to bother engaging in debate. Honestly. Ignore it entirely and it will get bored. now if you'll excuse me, i have to go breed my purty lilac pittbull with my pitt mix, 'cuz she's a nice dog and we need more so i can make stupid cash and scare all the other owners and make me sum good guard dogs and wear matching leather and spiked collars to match all the puppies. everyone knows that all pittbulll owners hafta breed there dogz and make other owners ascairt of there breed, since were all dumbass idiots of course, otherwise we wouldnt own these horrible maneating machines. these dogs aint for pussies so badass folks, line up today and get yerself one! [img]http://www.dogster.com/pix/26/426/8.jpg[/img] (whoops - double post. us pit bull owners aint too bright and this durned techno-stuff confuse me somethin fierce. ok time to bread my dogz now.)

I think I shall name the next ill-tempered, snarfy bitch that comes into the Bad Rap program "Primrose." It's a good name for a pit bull, especially one in need of a good ol' fashioned attitude adjustment. Now, for the "AWWWWWWW's..." [img]http://www.badrap.org/rescue/img/pand_baby1.jpg[/img] Pandora and her buddy Mary Kate. [img]http://www.badrap.org/rescue/img/whitepup.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.badrap.org/rescue/img/tamsonhead.jpg[/img] Teeny Pandora pix, maybe 5 and 7 weeks old. (Pandora was born in the Animal Control van.) [img]http://www.badrap.org/rescue/img/blue2.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.badrap.org/rescue/img/blue4.jpg[/img] A very undermuscled Gunther, the day he got out of the shelter. And finally... two of the Bad Rap fosters blissing out in the sun: [img]http://www.badrap.org/rescue/img/bliss.jpg[/img]

[quote]If we can't enforce licensing, how can we expect to enforce this?[/quote] Like I said - my question is enforcement. I didn't say I think the law will work or even that I support it, I was simply pointing out that at the very least this law addresses the pit bull problem (tho' it's not a breed-specific law) from the right angle: overpopulation. Dogfighting is a problem, but it's not my problem to solve, and it's certainly not the greatest challenge facing pit bulls as a breed. It's an oversensationalized phenomenon and is often conveniently used as an excuse by people like PETA to ban the breed. (PETA of course wants to eliminate all breeding in order to eliminate companion animals as a "slave class," so it's no surprise that they'll start with an easy target to get some traction.) I have spoken with HSUS and its "pit bull expert" about its stats (an "estimation" based on... what?) and I, unlike the folks in suits coming up with these stats, have actually seen the inside of a shelter in an urban area where dogfighting occurs. Sorry, but the fighting-ring dogs we see are simply not the majority of dogs in the shelters. They're just not. I've talked to people in other parts of the country and they see the same thing. Yes, some people fight their dogs. Yes, it is a problem. Yes, it may be on the rise. However, BSL won't solve it (even if there were no pits in the world, these folks would find another breed). This is felonious activity that needs to be addressed by law enforcement. Creating new laws isn't going to help matters, and as a rescuer I am simply not equipped to do the job of the FBI and the local police. In any case, I didn't say dogfighting was insignificant. Then again, even if that 250k number is to be believed (and I for one don't necessarily buy it), that is not even close to the number of pit bulls that die in the shelter system due to overpopulation. Hell, L.A. County alone kills about 200 pit bulls *a day.* Check your local classifieds and just count the number of people peddling off pit bull litters and studding them out. The numbers are mind-boggling. This has become a fad breed, plain and simple. It's "cool" to own one. You have the Rott 'n Pits of the world studding their out-of-standard blues with homedone crop chops, auctioning off their flashy blue stud at online auction - why? Quick cash, makes them feel cool. Gross. Would a registration fee/licensing law prevent people like this from producing a litter? I doubt it. That's the problem. Then again, it may curb the activities of the so-called "reputable" breeders producing hundreds of intact puppies every year. That's a start, at least. One major hole is a lack of accountability for the stud owner. The responsibility for a litter should not end with a stud fee, but it very often does. Sigh. [quote]As I understand it, BSL in places like the U.K. is aimed at preventing the "sport" of dog-fighting.[/quote] Er - where did you hear that? The U.K. has banned AmStaffs and Pit Bulls, but the Staffordshire Bull Terrier and BT's originated there and are still very much allowed. In fact, Staffies are in the top 10 dogs there. I've never heard that the U.K. used dogfighting as their rationale behind the APBT/AST ban, so if you could cite your source for me I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

[quote]I would be willing to entertain a breed ban if I could be assured that the result would be significantly fewer of these dogs tortured, killed, and euthanized.[/quote] But that won't be the result, because dogfighters by default *do not obey laws.* Dogfighting is a felony in almost all states, yet the problem exists. If law enforcement can't even bust people committing a felony I can't imagine where the manpower or interest in busting someone for owning a pit bull will originate. It simply makes no sense to assume that criminals are going to obey a breed-ban law. In any case, dogfighting is overly sensationalized by the press and is simply *not* the reason that so many pit bulls die every year. Our shelters are 60-80% full of pit bulls because every yahoo and his brother is breeding them and peddling them off to anyone who wants them. Yes, we see the fallout of dogfighting rings. However, these dogs are in the minority; the vast majority of pit bulls in the shelters are the victims of abandonment and neglect. Breed bans do not solve anything. They target the responsible folks who aren't creating the problem. There is proposed legislation in California right now aimed to regulate breeding: [url]http://beckerville.com/humane/AB_2513_statment.pdf[/url] There are a lot of loopholes, but at least it's a step in the right direction. The AKC is having a fit and so are many breeders, who claim that it will hurt the responsible ones. My question is enforcement, particularly as pertains to BYB's, who many will finger as being ultimately responsible for the bulk of the dogs in the shelters. Then again, arguably the single worst offender in our area as relates to pit bull overpopulation is a show breeder who wins ribbons right and left. This person produced 569 puppies in 2001. Christ. BYB's don't conjure their dogs out of thin air. The overpopulation problem has to be addressed from the top down. That starts with good breeders, breed clubs, and the registries. Of course the last is a pipe dream, but hey.

[quote]The reality is that certain breeds (particularly pit bulls) have and cause so many problems that the certain reaction is breed BANS unless people think of other solutions[/quote] Actually, the bottom line is that the folks causing problems with pit bulls don't obey laws (or common sense) in the first place. BSL is ineffectual in preventing bad owners from acquiring the dogs. No reputable animal organization supports it, including HSUS. Cities (like Denver) who have put it in place have found no decrease of the breed, and I was told that pit bulls actually *increased* in Ohio. As one of the HSUS bigwigs said to me: "If we outlaw the breed, only outlaws breed." And keep in mind here that HSUS does not particularly seem to have an educated or enlightened view of the breed (there is so much emphasis on dog fighting), but even they understand that the logic flaws in breed bans put the "BS" in BSL.

[quote]How much IT/PC/computer knowledge do you have?[/quote] Well gee, courtnek, I worked in a Web Dev agency for a few years and ran a variety of complex back-end and front-end web-based projects, and I currently work at an internet company. Is that enough for you, or would you like me to fax you the specs of our own e-commerce system so that you're thoroughly satisfied that my study of various IA and UI documents makes me worthy to expose R&P as a liar? In short: I think I have enough computer knowledge to know that R&P is full of crap. I certainly have enough life experience. In fact, I lived with an actual con artist and identity thief, and she was an exponentially better liar than R&P was. He has a long way to go. I'm sure he's cursing himself for using an identifiable e-mail addy in the auction. You must lead a blissfully gilded existence to have never had the misfortune to run into an irresponsble, opportunistic dog owner. (Have you ever spent time in an animal shelter?) Um, riddle me this: WHY would an internet fraud want to use R&P's e-mail account in the first place? If the point was to make cash on a fake auction, wouldn't that person, um, want to actually GET THE MONEY? (Not to mention that Drey is hardly the pinnacle of a breathtaking blue that folks want to shell out big bucks for - why not steal pix of a better dog?) So you're saying that someone is breaking all sorts of federal laws, researching R&P, breaking into his e-mail account *and his PayPal account (and these are two different accounts), and then going the extra mile to leave a trail at Hoobly (which requires payment and account authorization), all so this person can make maybe $500 on a dog. And considering that the Hoobly ad is local to Lincoln, one might assume that the buyer will in fact expect to, er, see the dog before buying. This is the world's worst internet thief. Courtnek and Newfie, I am not suprised that you're blind to this, because your heads are buried so far in the sand your vision must surely be entirely obscured. Enjoy your rants. I was trying to do you folks a favor so that you don't find yourself conned by this kind of charlatan, but clearly my efforts are wasted. Oh well. I'll hope that Drey lands in a better home that believes in neutering.

Folks, if R&P's account was hacked and he was locked out of it, he'd have stated that. (I'm sure he's reading this now, sad that he didn't come up with this wild excuse earlier. Not that this particularly explains the hoobly ad, which is still up...) I can't believe how far people are reaching to shield themselves from the truth. Sheesh. Let me make this clear: It was IMPOSSIBLE to start an online auction without activating that auction and that username FROM R&P's OWN E-MAIL ACCOUNT. Even if someone had his password and didn't change it, R&P would still have seen notifications from the auction site that a) would have gotten his attention b) actually required some action to both activate the name and activate the auction I couldn't care less how long R&P has been on this board doing a happy happy chum dance to drum up friends. He has three suspiciously botched crop jobs (I would put money on him doing them himself - and Drey's crop is nothing to write home about either), missing dogs that are Gawd knows where ("for show... with my parents... in the backyard on a chain, he never was right with kids...."), and spent cash buying his own little overdone blue butterball from some unknown yahoo on the internet because "I WANT THIS DOG!" R&P is a good little American consumer and is more than aware of the ROI he can make off his fad-bred blues. I could have registered on hoobly, paid the $10, and e-mailed R&P just to make a point. But frankly, anyone who can't already see R&P for what he is would probably just make up another outlandish excuse for him. I can only assume that the folks rushing to his defense don't own breeds that attract this kind of scumbag owner. Pit bulls seem to be the breed of choice for every opportunistic, exploitive idiot in the world, and frankly this kind of behavior is par for the course and not even particularly surprising. What *is* surprising is the blind eye that folks are trying to turn here. My goodness. I'm almost speechless. Almost.

...Oh yeah, I guess that was a helluva way to make my first post here. The former thread was cross-posted on pit bull boards, and since it seemed that an admin here was either lied to by the auction site or otherwise misinformed, it seemed appropriate to point out the very obvious holes in R&P's sorry tale. I wish it were not the case, but I am not remotely surprised that poor Drey is still being peddled off to the highest bidder (best offer!) online. Sigh.

Lookie here: [url]http://www.hoobly.com/listings/25883/ukc_blue_male_pit_bull_best_offer.html[/url] God, I'm so surprised. Truly. Folks, might I add that registering a username on apbtauction.com shoots off an e-mail to the e-mail address you listed, and you have to log into this e-mail address and click an activation link, then use the validation code, in order to actually participate in the site. There is no way that someone could have started an auction with R&P's e-mail address (which was used), because that person would have to log into R&P's e-mail account to even get the apbt username going, let alone get the auction going. I for one cannot believe that *anyone here believed his load of hooey, but the proof's right here. The dog is still for sale. I wouldn't be surprised if he's listed in other online classifieds as well. Sorry Drey, it's not your fault your dad wades in the shallow end of the gene pool.