imported_Millie

don't get me talking about zoo retired tigers! as long as the tiger is able to exhibit, they make money off ot it. But once the tiger is too old to exhibit, then it is the private sancutaries that gets the call about taking them in. I have two tigers here that are from zoos, and one serval that is from another zoo. And of course the zoos are going to say they are wild, why? They are for display, "wild" is a selling technic. But you donot see what happens after hours, or behind the scenes. [quote name='"rotten_two"'][quote]My cats are not wild, they were born and raised here in the states. [/quote] oh right the american domesticated tiger! with ya now! so because your cats are born in captivity they are no longer wild? well that might be the stoopidest thing i have heard today -- wait maybe all week! the zoos breed in captivity and the first thing any of those handlers tell you is that they are still wild animals as in not tame! trained maybe but not tame![/quote]

No, I do not breed them. There are too many bad breeders out there, who will sell to anyone, just because they are "neat" or "different". We provide them with forever homes instead of killing them, to where they can live out their lives. Also, people who are even thinking of buying a tiger cub, should be looking into their city/state laws. Alot of states, ban ownership of these great cats. It is not the cat's fault, that there are bad breeders, and inexperienced people out there, like people having them in a freaking apartment. Tigers need space, alot of it! Millie breeds them? please tell me it aint so[/quote]

(sigh) My cats are not wild, they were born and raised here in the states. So they are exotics. If you mean wild as being in a wild state (action), that would mean they are untouchable by humans. Mine are touchable, you need the "experience" in handling them. Why? just their size alone, can seriously hurt me. I am a mere 125 lbs, my biggest cat, is just a little over 300 pounds. If he sat on me, he would hurt me. When he head butts me showing me affection, he could knock me silly. (quote): I agree completely. Animals can fit into both categories. But my argument was against miss Millie saying that her "exotic" pets weren't wild. When clearly the definition of wild says that they are.[/quote]

UGH! but they are not TAKEN from the wild! they are born and raised here in the states. UGH! The big cats that are here in the United States have been born and raised here in the United States. Do you honestly believe that a Siberian Tiger, actually flew in a plane from Siberia to live here? Do you actually believe that a African Serval, actually flew in a plane from Africa to live here? Their ancestors did, but not the ones that actually live here in the states now. And if they did, it can only be done by Zoos, researchers, etc. So hence, not "wild" felines, but "exotic" felines! Also the words, Siberian and Africa, are the names of the species of felines. Siberian tiger, African Tiger, Bengal Tiger, Indonesia Tiger, etc, etc. [quote name='"Debbie"']Here Drew, I just looked up Exotic and Wild in my handy dandy "Webster's NEW WORLD Pocket Dictionary" (new and revised) :wink: EXOTIC- 1-foreign 2- strangely beautiful, etc.. WILD - 1- in it's natural state 2- not civilized 3- unruly 4- stormy 5- enthusiastic 6- reckless 7- missing the target -[i]adv.[/i] in a wild way [i]-n. pl. [/i]wilderness So....by looking at those 2 definitions, I would say captive wolves, and big cats, etc... fit [u][b]both [/b][/u]categories, not just one. :wink: What do you say Millie ? And just for the record, I don't think anyone should own a *wild* animal just because..... I believe if they can they should be left in the wild. Now, I do believe there are some professionals that rescue *wild* animals from bad situations and that can't be helped and is actually helping the animal. But I do think they should be sent to Sanctuaries that are set up for them to simulate their wild habitat, not just go to any Joe Schmo in Hoboken because he wants to be cool and own a wolf or tiger. :wink:[/quote]

lol..oh boy! This argument was posted on several exotic feline lists, I am just the first one, to respond! Just wait! Give us time, some of us will be here either today or tomorrow. [quote name='"Jessashelony"'][quote]What best authority on exotic animal ownership than the private owner[/quote] You are absolutely right... We are still standing by for a valid argument from a private owner. We are still standing by for proof that there is a private owner amongst us.[/quote]

I don't, for criminy sake! but some people do! A friend of mine breeds them, all different breeds. You should hear him get on the defensive! sheesh! [quote name='"IlBLisSlI"']pitbulls are [i]domesticated [/i]animals not wild animals... do we need to go through the vocab lession again?[/quote]

No matter what I say, no matter what info I quote it from, you will always be on the defensive, juding on what I post. What best authority on exotic animal ownership than the private owner, who is with their exotics all the time (well - except for being on here right now), who interacts with those exotics thru hands-on experience? Some so-called professionals who have been called upon to quote in the media, have never even touched an exotic feline, let alone seen one up close. What about pit bulls? Is it right for someone to be quoted as saying that pit bulls are dangerous and wild dogs, and no one should be allowed to own them? they should be banned? especially if that person has no hands-on experience what so ever with them. Okay, I might be using pit bulls as a bad example because I have no experience with a pit bull. quote: I promise you that the definitions of exotic and wild will be quite similar in any reputable dictionary. Now if you are talking about Millie's homemade dictionary, thats another story. :lol: Seriously though, I am not trying to pick on you, but you have not made a single, valid point in any of your posts. Just because you have x number of tigers in your backyard, does not make you the authority on wild animals.[/quote]

I have one african grey, and I simply adore him. He has such a vocabulary! He loves to dance, and sing! He is such a pistol too! He keeps me in stitches! The more I giggle, the more he does! He is in the computer room with me right now, choosing what he wants in his bowl or not. So of course, the things he does not want in his bowl, he tosses onto the floor! the stinker! I have no experience with sugar gliders or flying squirrels. But I like the little chipmunks with their tiny itty bitty tails wagging! You are right in your assumption that many exotic animals do become "bored", so do domestics. It is up to us, their owners, to keep their lives filled with enrichment. That is why there is alot of business in selling pet toys! The bigger the animal, the bigger the toy!

lol...don't think so! each dictionary will also have their own definition of the words, somewhat different and somewhat alike. Dictionaries are complied by men, and men do make mistakes. And I am not insulting you, so please, do not insult me by stating I need a vocabulary lesson. I am alot older than you are, and more experienced in the exotic feline world. quote: Well I pulled that out of the Webster’s Dictionary. If you'd like I can look it up in the oxford dictionary or any other dictionary / encyclopedia of your choice. I just think you need a vocabulary lesson or two. And as luck has it, I’m just the person to school you.[/quote]

I wish I could remember the name of that movie, but see if you can find it. In it, the rehabber had to train them to hunt. "Two Cheetah Brothers"? I am not sure what the title was. He said something about, that since the two cheetah cubs had become dependent upon him for survival, that he had to "train" them to fend/hunt for themselves. Darn! I wish I could remember that name of that movie! I am only remembering pits and pieces of it. quote: In your example, the cheetas still had the wild instinct to hunt, they just didn't know any better with regards to their selected prey because nobody showed them.

No, sorry. We rescue them and either house them here, or we find them legal and responsible homes. [quote name='"rotten_two"']owner of big cats? why? do you train them for movies or shows?[/quote]

There are many defintions and rescources, for those two words, just find the definitions that agrees with your argument.

opps! I did not see that question! Our site is still in the "under construction" stage! I hate that! There are some html tags that need to be fixed, I just wish the webmaster would get done with it. I do understand that it takes time. As soon as it gets done, I can post it for sure, or unless you want me to private email you, it is up to you. I dont think anyone is getting "antsy".....**taps foot**..i'm waiting for you to answer my question....do you have a website with your "cats"?[/quote]

I just used those as an example. I could use other examples if you'd like. i understand 'exotic" and "wild"...and there is absolutely no comparison to a siamese "house" cat and a tiger......[/quote]

I used that term for your benefit, because you can not distinguish the meaning of those two words. And if I have ZERO valid arguments, why are you getting so ansty about it? READ what you wrote here... The tiger was doing what it would do in the wild. You said so yourself "grabbed him like a mother tiger would" This tiger did nothing wrong! I agree that he was only doing what he thought he should... But you know what? He still put his owner's life at risk! Even though this guy had been handling tigers for years, he was still put at risk!!!!! You have ZERO valid arguments here![/quote]

I can't put it any plainer, and I am sorry you can not understand. You are confusing the two words - exotic and wild. A siamese cat is "exotic" or "wild"? It is exotic, it is born, raised and interacts with human intervention for survival. A tiger cat born here in the states, is exotic, born, raised and interacts with human intervention for survival. "WILD" - no human intervention!!! You know, like the tigers and lions that live in Africa now!

you are wrong, you are definitely wrong. Why do I know you are wrong in your assumptions? I am an owner of big cats. [quote name='"Michele"'][quote name='"Millie"']Are we confusing the two words, "wild" and "exotic"? Domestic born and raised tigers are exotic, not wild. There is no "wild" areas for them to reside in anymore due to human encroachment. U.S. Tigers and other exotic felines, are bred and raised here in the states. Their "wild" instincts have changed, they would not be able to survive in the wild because they are now dependent upon humans for survival. Did you recently see the cheetah story on Animal Planet? Where two cheetah cubs, were raised by a human and the human released them into the wild. The one cheetah brother, did not know any better that Lions kill cheetahs, so he tormented the lions, until one male lion killed him. They also went after bigger game then the "wild" cheetah would naturally. Their instincts of being wild were almost gone. So you can not take a lion, tiger, cheetah, etc, that was bred domestically and return them to the wild, thinkig they are going to survive. Scientists, Rehabbers, Zoologists, have proven this as a fact and not fiction. [quote name='"Michele"']I've read through this thread and IMO, I can really relate to what Sejun is saying but...take for example...remember Sigman and Froyd (spelling) the two guys that did shows with their tigers....now, these animals were raised from babies.....but they are still wild. Look what their hand raised tigers did. They mauled one of them, almost killing him. I am really torn about this topic. Bottom line, no matter how experienced you are in owning a wild animal, I think they belong in the wild.[/quote][/quote] I'm talking about WILD animals. Wild animals that are raised as babies by humans....they are still wild and will do what their instincts tell them to do no matter what.[/quote]

So since it happened anyway, as you are perceiving, makes Monteco a "wild" animal? I am definitely not making your case. But I am definitely defending Monteco for his actions. Monteco is not wild, he is an exotic feline. He was born and raised here in the states, with human companionship. I am more afraid of a feral cat, then I am of a tiger. [quote name='"Jessashelony"'][quote]So Monteco, severly injured Roy in the process. It was not Monteco's intent, to "kill", to "maul", "to attack" Roy. [/quote] Exactly. It was not his intent. But it happened anyway. So in other words, no matter how well you treat a wild animal, no matter how much that wild animal loves you, you are still in danger when handling wild animals. Thanks for making our case.[/quote]

Are we confusing the two words, "wild" and "exotic"? Domestic born and raised tigers are exotic, not wild. There is no "wild" areas for them to reside in anymore due to human encroachment. U.S. Tigers and other exotic felines, are bred and raised here in the states. Their "wild" instincts have changed, they would not be able to survive in the wild because they are now dependent upon humans for survival. Did you recently see the cheetah story on Animal Planet? Where two cheetah cubs, were raised by a human and the human released them into the wild. The one cheetah brother, did not know any better that Lions kill cheetahs, so he tormented the lions, until one male lion killed him. They also went after bigger game then the "wild" cheetah would naturally. Their instincts of being wild were almost gone. So you can not take a lion, tiger, cheetah, etc, that was bred domestically and return them to the wild, thinkig they are going to survive. Scientists, Rehabbers, Zoologists, have proven this as a fact and not fiction. [quote name='"Michele"']I've read through this thread and IMO, I can really relate to what Sejun is saying but...take for example...remember Sigman and Froyd (spelling) the two guys that did shows with their tigers....now, these animals were raised from babies.....but they are still wild. Look what their hand raised tigers did. They mauled one of them, almost killing him. I am really torn about this topic. Bottom line, no matter how experienced you are in owning a wild animal, I think they belong in the wild.[/quote]

Well, here we go again! "mauling" "attack" "murder" "vicious" "dangerous" "wild" are all sensational words that are used in the media to sell newspapers. Which paper would you think that the average Joe-Smoe would buy? Headline - "Attack wild tiger mauls owner to death" or Headline - "Pet tiger carries owner to safety while suffering mild stroke" or Headline - "Attack dogs on the loose - get your guns ready!" or Headline - "Pet dog escapes owner" The news media are quite well known for printing exaggeration and untruths. If we can say that the media, is printing "untruths" about our dog breeds, then how can we not say they are doing the same, for exotic animals? As far as Siefried and Roy, Monteco sensed something was not right with Roy. Roy had not been feeling well, and knew he should not have been performing. Roy spent the night before partying for his birthday, and suffered a mild stroke. (at the time he did not realize this). When they entered the staging area, it was routine that Monteco would stay to Roy's right side. After a few steps onto the stage, Roy (who was not feeling well), staggered which caused him to miss a step. Monteco who loves Roy, sensed something was not right, grabbed him like a mother tiger would, and dragged him off stage. The problem was, that tigers do not realize their own strength compared to a human's frail body. So Monteco, severly injured Roy in the process. It was not Monteco's intent, to "kill", to "maul", "to attack" Roy. [quote name='"Michele"']I've read through this thread and IMO, I can really relate to what Sejun is saying but...take for example...remember Sigman and Froyd (spelling) the two guys that did shows with their tigers....now, these animals were raised from babies.....but they are still wild. Look what their hand raised tigers did. They mauled one of them, almost killing him. I am really torn about this topic. Bottom line, no matter how experienced you are in owning a wild animal, I think they belong in the wild.[/quote]