reply to divine on frequency

[drjohn]

Right after my dog had her accident, a girl that I knew had her 2 big Rhod.Ridgebacks get stuck the same way....unfortunately, she was at work and when she arrived hours later both dogs were near death. Her emergency bill was over 2 grand and one dog lost a bunch of teeth (both did survive). Afterwards, her neighbor told her she heard the dogs "fighting" for over 6 hours, but she didn't know how to get in touch with her.

Over the past 6 years I have talked to hundreds of clients about collar hazards and the vast majority had no clue that something like this could happen (a collar strangulation), but I'd say about 20% of the people I talked to either had it happen to their dog at some point in their lives or knew someone it happened too. And I've discussed this issue with lot's of techs too (I'm currently a relief doc) and some of them had it happen to them, or again, know someone that it's happened to.

The company that makes the collar (Premier Pet Products) estimates that thousands of dogs are injured or killed every year.

One client that I talked to several months ago had her medium sized dog at a dog park with her friends dog...who was wearing a choke chain...well, guess what. The first dog got its jaw under the choke chain while wrestling....and dog number 2 flipped.....

3 guys had to tackle the panicked stricken, struggling dogs and lift up and flip over dog #2 to untangle them....

Now little hornets.....picture THAT scenario with 2 110lb Rotties.....
.......not too pretty, huh?

It took 30 years of having dogs before it happen to me, so....is it all that common? Obviously not as common as HBC's and other injuries....but does something have to be common to be talked about and prevented?

Some owners like to keep ID tags on their pets...sometimes it's required by law....others don't keep collars on....but if you do, you need to be aware that if that collar gets caught on something (it only takes one time) it could kill or severely injure the dog....are you willing to accept that risk? I'm not.

Some people tell me that they wouldn't want to use a break-away collar because if the dog got caught on something and the collar released (as designed) and the dog "ran away" then they would be upset because the dog "got away" without its collar on....

Unfortunately, that is flawed logic.....for if the dog got caught and strangled by its collar, well, heck, the dog surely won't be running loose without ID tags....because it'll be dead....so, take your pick....
(now remember little hornets....the assumption in the above example is that the dog gets its collar caught on something and can't get unstuck and is fatally injured)...loose dog that has a chance of being reunited with you...or dead dog....to me...that's not a hard choice

and the other flawed piece of logic is that once the collar releases the dog is loose....not always so.....as many strangulation accidents happen inside the house, or in a fenced yard

sigh, all I can do is lead dog owners to water.......I can't make'm drink from the pond though...but at least I've done my job and made them aware of the situation

[BuddysMom]

[quote name='drjohn']sigh, all I can do is lead dog owners to water.......I can't make'm drink from the pond though...but at least I've done my job and made them aware of the situation[/quote]

Yes you certainly have, you have done a thorough job. The basic pitch, the medical details, and now the anecdotes. In my opinion you can stop now, unless you want to talk about a different topic? That would be cool IMO ... :fadein:

[Horsefeathers!]

BM, I think he was answering a question that DivOb posted in the other thread. IMO, that makes it a valid discussion rather than just a sales pitch, even if the tone is a bit condescending (I'll chalk that up to me not knowing him well enough to know if he's just joking around, or if he's truly being sarcastic).

Come to think of it, someone on another of my pet boards nearly lost one of her dogs when they were playing and one dog's teeth got hung on the other dog's collar. If I remember correctly (it's been two or three years), the one dog suffered a minor injury with her jaw and the other one was the one being strangled. I think she found them entangled, but not dead yet. They both needed vet attention, though.

While I don't think it's common, it's a valid enough concern for me to consider doing something a little different for my little escape artist. Until he learns to recite his name, address and phone number, he is required to wear a collar and id 24/7. It makes me think.

I'd still like to know if DrJohn is going to otherwise be involved in our board. :)

[BuddysMom]

Oh yeah, thanks HF, that would explain the title. :oops:

I wasn't meaning to be so condescending, just a little poke in the ribs. Sorry Dr. John ...

[AllAmericanPUP]

I've heard of quite a few dogs getting their collars stuck on something, either another dogs teeth or a crate or whatever.

a friend on another board had a choke chain on her DDB and he layed down on the deck and when he went to get up his collar was stuck so he freaked and strangled himself more and he almost died before his owner came outside and realized what was happening..

another friends 2 pit bulls were playing and one dog got his teeth stuck on the collar so of course they both freaked...the one dog who was choking starting turning purple before the owners could calm the dogs down and cut the collars off.

collar strangulation is pretty common these days. i think the break safe collars are a very good idea and I would like to get all of my dogs ones...someday when i can afford it

*I* keep collars on my dogs almost 24/7 because 5 of them will bolt as soon as a door opens :evil: and since my idgit family cant seem to close a door/gate 75% of the time, i feel it's safe for them to have collars and ID on at almost all times...

[drjohn]

sales pitch?
condescending!
OMG, does it ever stop?
I was answering a question that Divine left, but in my newness I put it in the wrong place. And I was speaking my heart, not being condescending, and I was explaining the situation, not giving a sales pitch.
All AmericanPup....thanks for the back up. Do you want to be friends?

[drjohn]

AllAmericanPup.....

bowing towards you, butt in the air
pawing at you, woof woof



(for those of you that don't get that......it's an invitation to AllAmPup to play, doggie style)

[Cairn6]

I think it's a genuine concern too. Many people keep collars on their dogs because what good are the tags if the dog isn't wearing them when they get loose. Microchips are good, if someone bothers to check for one. Some people are more likely to look for an owner if the tag is seen right away. People think stray when they see no collar with tags.

I can't imagine my dogs ever getting out but if some kind of stange occurance happened and they got out I prefer that the first person who gets ahold of him or her calls me directly instead of bringing them to animal control while I am freaking out the entire time.

My grandma found her way back to us because of a collar and tag. Right after being diagnosed with alzheimers and before we knew how far along she was she walked out the front door, walked down a block and fell. She had no purse, no id at all. But she brought her chihuahua, Angel with her. Angel had on a collar with tags. The police took the information from the tag and brought her home. Thank God she wasn't hurt and both Angel and grandma got home to us.

So I think it's a wonderful idea and don't understand where the hostility towards Dr. John is coming from.

[Guest Anonymous]

Ahhh I finally looked at those collars. I had two. One for Gretchen and one for Prissy because I have to keep tags on them here (especially with freaky neighbors who once claimed Prissy was a human aggressive girl). They were POINTLESS! I'd put the girls on leash, snap the leash over both D rings and one pull from the dog or even a turn and the collar would come off. You can't grab a dog by the collar if the need arises. You can't even just let them wear it because I swear they come off with no one pulling on them or anything. They just fell off. I tossed them. I ended up carrying their tags on my key ring and using Greyhound Martingales on both dogs. Worked much better.

[drjohn]

Tammy,
The collars work great as designed to prevent strangulation and hold ID tags....but you could have used a second collar, such as a choke chain (is that a dirty word on this board) for walking.

My dog Nikki was an escape artist and could slip out of just about anything.....so I tell people with dogs like that to use the KeepSafe to ummm.....keep their dog safe.....lolol........and just use a second collar/harness for walking

There is no perfect solution, but I think the KeepSafe Collar is the best solution (for some dogs) vs no collar or a collar that can lead to an accident.

[drjohn]

for the support.......are they always this hostile?

[rotten_two]

ok now i'll pop in and say YES choke chain is a dirty word in r2's world. i realize and accept that some dogoers do use chokes but we don't have to agree to get along (right drjeff?) i prefer less aversive tools. for instance the suggestion of another collar was right on until you said choke -- even the name of the collar is aversive to me as it implies you want to choke the dog -- very old fashioned methods. i don't know many people who would say their intention is to choke their dog into submission -- but that's exactly what they are doing. what is wrong with putting another nylon (flat buckle) collar on for walks?

*steps off soapbox*

oh and drjohn yes we are always this vocal about our opinions love it or leave it. btw in which state do you practice?

[xavierandrea]

[quote name='drjohn']AllAmericanPup.....

(for those of you that don't get that......it's an invitation to AllAmPup to play, [b]doggie style[/b])[/quote]

:icon_rock: , :hmmmm: , :banan:, :cunao:,

[AllAmericanPUP]

:nonono2:

[Guest Anonymous]

:lol:

I would just like to say, 1... the hostility is coming from people because this guy is continually putting up posts about his collars. None here is stupid and one post should suffice.

Now, Im sorry, but I would be more inclined to worry about one of my dogs running around with no collar on. Choking can happen, yes, but is it as common as some of the things that could happen if the dog doesnt have a collar on? I know a lot of people will think twice of stopping to help a pooch with no collar, and a lot wont stop at all.
Also, so when are you supposed to use this thing? When you let the dogs out to go to the bathroom? When they are playing in the backyard? I know you cant use it to walk, as it would keep snapping off, and you cant use it if your dog stays on a chain. So, wouldnt it be just as useful to leave a real collar on when you are around your dog and take it off when you arent? What good is a breakaway collar if it doesnt keep the tag on your dog? Might as well not even use a collar???

[xavierandrea]

Michele your killing me... :lol: :lol:

[drjeffrock]

Just wanted to say that in the 28 years I have been on this earth, I have known of 3 cases where collars have caused problems. One time, my neighbor left his pit on a leash inside of his car. Not sure what exactly happened, but I guess the dog tried to jump out of the stationary car, and the leash got caught on something. The dog was in essence hanging herself on the side of the car. She ended up living though, he claims that her heart had stopped at he was banging on her chest to get her heart pumping How much of this is truth or BS I'll never know. Chalk that one up to owner neglect. I leave collars on my dogs when I am home/hiking with them and thats it. Dex stays in his varikennel when we are gone, so any type of collar is a no-no. Oh, probably should add that my dogs are indoor dogs.

[BuddysMom]

Well one of my dumbass redneck neighbors was bringing his new puppy home (adopted from the pound, ONE thing I'll give him credit for :roll: ) and of course he has to tie the poor thing in the back of his pickup because, can't get any dog hair in that new super crew cab I guess ...

Anyway another car starts honking, flashing lighs and waving frantically at him ... so he pulled off, and the puppy is hanging by the leash and collar over the side of the truck bed.

Luckily the puppy was fine and my neighbor decided to name him Strangle. :o

In this instance I can't help thinkng tht a break-away collar could have deposited the pup right onto the busy high speed 2 lane road.

[drjohn]

Michele, I live/work/play in SE Florida....paradise except for Hurricane Francis, Hurricane Jeanne, Hurricane Wilma



Dear Hmmmmm........
the collar is designed to be used in several...but not all...situations....

it's for people who want to keep collars on all the time when dog or dogs are alone in the home or yard

it's for people with multiple dogs that are left alone and like to play and wrestle

it's for people who take their dogs to dog park where they play and wrestle with other dogs

I think you are forgetting...and I don't mean this in a condescending way.....if your dog got hung on something, or stuck, or however you want to word and you are NOT around to free him there is a very good chance he/she will be severely injured or killed....how is that a good thing?

everyone assumes that if the collar releases as it is designed to do then your dog is loose and it runs away.....that is not the case in every situation

When I did a tv interview 2 months ago at a local dog park, I met a guy whose 2 dogs got stuck together in his fenced in backyard......1 died because of the collar

I've also heard of several incidents at the local dog parks where the dogs are playing, get stuck and one flips over.....that is a very bad situation, esp. if it involves big dogs

and actually, the safety release can be disabled and the manufacturer recomends doing so, if you anticipate being in a situation that you need to control your dog

[pyrless]

You know, I have had dogs for a long time. They always wear their collars-the pyrs have the rolled leather with the buckle kind, and the other two have flat nylon web collars. I have never had the remotest whiff of a problem. I leave them on not because I am lazy, but because they are my dogs, they wear collars, end of story. I appreciate that there are a lot of products on the market designed to make dog's lives and our lives easier, and I also appreciate that accidents can happen. But do we really need one more thing to stress about? Love your dog, walk your dog, play with your dog. In other words, RELAX!! :P

[ShatteringGlass]

Sometimes my dog wheres her collar(always when walking on leash), sometimes not in the house. I'm not worried about her bolting out the door and running away. If my dog hates me that much that she wants to run away from me, go ahead! I'll get another dog that WANTS to stay with me! :lol: (j/k Sydney :P )

[imported_raven]

My dog has a collar 24/7 including tags with name and telephone number as well as his tax tag. I used to take it off when he was home, but we seem to have a funny neighbor who thinks it would be nice for the dogs to open backyard doors and let them out.

We are lucky and Simba is always back home before we even know he was out (when other neighbors knock on our door and tell us that they saw Simba roaming the streets, he is always already sleeping innocently on the couch) - but it still worries me.

We did put a lock on the door now and I try to maintain a 'dog-safe' house, but I won't take his collar off.

And I won't take it off in the dog park either. In fact, I believe it is safer for some dogs to wear a collar. I have seen many situations where dogs had to been taken off each other by the collar and I had some situations where I was glad I had a collar to grab Simba.

I use a collar which is partly choke collar, I guess - it has stops, so it won't choke him. I leave the collar very loose and when he pulls or turns, the collar will tighten to the stops so he can't slip out of it.

[imported_raven]

I forgot to add: I have my dog always in sight when he plays with other dogs at the dog park.

If his doggy girlfriend has a sleep over at our house (yes, he has a girlfriend and has sleep overs! :lol: ) and we're not home, I do remove their collars.

[pyrless]

Awww! So they're like, naked! :lol:

[imported_raven]

:lol: Oh yes - and did I mention, they're both fixed? :nono: :lol: