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arrgghhh....opinions please...


courtnek
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where to start...I have this ongoing argument on another forum about how dogs should be treated, in the home.

one of them is a rescuer, says dogs should not be adopted out to people who work full time, and are gone 8-10 hours a day. most people work, is this helping rescue any? or the dogs needing homes?

MY TAKE: I have two dogs and two cats. yes, I am gone 10 hours a day Mon-Fri. When I am here, I have a large enclosed yard they can play in.
I walk them and take them to the river to run. they go out for an hour every morning, and 2-3 every evening, and then additional walks and playtime on the weekends. most of their play during the week is in a huge fenced in yard. they play with each other, and with me.

these people think this is inadequate. that someone should be here at least 2 hours during the day to let them out to "go"...they say 10 hours is too long between potty breaks. sorry, I can hold it 10 hours easily.

mine dont have accidents, are content with each other while I'm gone, and explode with joy when I come home and can playwith them.

so am I a bad owner? they have both had their outside play time and are sleeping on my bed right now...

what do YOU think?

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If the main objection is that 10hrs is too long for a potty break, won't it be far easier to just train the dogs to go potty at a specific area (when they need to) indoors as well?

We have newspapers laid out all the time, just in case Cosmic needs to go potty between his walks.

Courtnek, I'm not sure what the average families are like in the case of this rescuer you mentioned. In my country, most of the would-be adopters we see are full-time working adults who ARE away from home most of the day. If we had to strike them (and people like you & me) off our lists, we wouldn't be able to find homes for most (if not ALL) of our dogs. :P We simply DON'T have the luxury of sticking it out for families with someone home all the time. That WOULD be wonderful, unfortunately it's far from the norm. IMHO, the most important qualifier for a good home is one where the owners [i]constantly[/i] try their best to do the best they can for their dogs, despite less than ideal circumstances. Of course, all the basics like shelter, food, training and spoiling the dog silly have to be fulfilled as well. ;)

Anyway, I guess my point is that I think (and I bet so would most of the rescuers I know) that you make a damn fine home for your dogs. :)

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I think that type of attitude is totally ridiculous. If dogs should only live in homes where someone is home all the time then there would not be many people able to have dogs.

Both the OH and I work full-time and we are gone for about 12 hours a day. We travel an hour each way to work so going home for lunch is totally out of the question.

We absolutely adore our dogs and they get plenty of love and attention. I don’t believe that them being at home on their own for that long is detrimental to their well being at all.

However one thing I do not agree with is dogs being left in a crate for that long. As I’ve stated in other topics we have a dog door so the dogs come in and out as they please and play in the back yard etc. I have noting against crates but I think more than a few hours in one is too much.

I think rescue organisations who have the strict rules of not adopting to people who work full-time are seriously limiting the amount of dogs they are going to be able to adopt out for no valid reason.

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Well, I ran across the same thing with the local Golden Retriever rescue site. They turned me down as a potential adopter. My vet said that they're known for wanting their potential adopters to be home most of the time and have lots of money. I've heard that most breed rescues are that way.

I work full-time too, and my dogs are usually home for 9 hours, and sometimes more if I work overtime. None of them has ever had an accident in the house. They have full run of the house when I'm gone, and when I'm there, they have a huge fenced yard to play in. They usually spend an average of 5 to 6 hours a day outside playing (some before work and some after work). My dogs are happy, healthy and in good shape.

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An owner being home all the time is no guarantee that a dog will receive adequate care and a happy life. Having lots of money is also no guarantee!

A person's record of care for their dogs at their vets is important, having adequate facilities to house the dogs in and outside is critical (IMO), spending time playing, grooming, and walking their dogs is important. Placing a dog with people who have the resources to handle behavior problems correctly is important. All of these should outweigh the single consideration of being away from the house 10 hours daily.

You are a fantastic dog owner, Courtnek! I guess if the rescue groups eliminate a whole group of prospective owners based on one qualification alone, then shelter dogs will certainly have a leg up on finding a happy, well-adjusted home with us owners who have to work for a living! 8)

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I've noticed that rescue groups vary considerably in what they'll allow. Some won't adopt to full time workers, some require a fenced yard, some won't adopt certain breeds to families with children, or small dogs to families with large dogs. It goes on and on. If all those rules were enforced all the time, most of us wouldn't have dogs. Thank goodness many rescuers understand that the dog needs love and care, but doesn't require perfection of us.

I agree with you on crates. I don't use them, unless I'm at a performance event and am running one of my other dogs. If my dogs had to be confined, I'd use a room with a baby gate or something.

Hugs to you, and it sounds to me that you're a wonderful dog parent!!!

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That attitude is what prevents alot of good homes from adopting dogs so they just go out and buy a pup from a BYB :(
seriously sometimes i'd love to smack some rescuers and tell them to wake the hell up.
i know all rescues arent like that but some of them really need to get off their high horse

if they think that is too long between potty breaks then do they get up in the middle of the night to let their dogs out or something? cause normal people sleep at least 8 hours, wouldnt want the poor pooch to have to wait that long :roll:

i really cant stand that board, it's there to talk about homeless animals yet all they do is put people down and the admin does nothing about it. they think they are all high and mighty or some crap

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I don't agree with rescues that won't adopt to people that work Full-Time.
That's not realistic in these times. :-?

I happen to work in the home, so my grrlz aren't trained to *hold it* for more than 6-7hr.
I take them out in the AM before the kids get to my house, in the afternoon when the kids are napping and after the kids leave at 5pm.
When we go somewhere on the weekend however.....I'll take them out just before we leave, and they're good for 6-7hr., they have the run of the house and are not destructive. I believe they probably sleep a good part of the time we're gone. :wink:

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Ravyn, my Pyrs are crated all day too. The main reason being they are livestock guardians, which translates into "No one can walk by the house". We live in the city on a main road and if they were not crated I have no doubt one would go through the front window barking at the mailman or some nonsense. :-?

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We are gone from Cheech for about 7 hours per day and he does just fine. When I brought him home, I took a week off to spend with him to help acclimate him to his new life. I have a big crate with his bed in that he stays in when we are away. When he was a baby, I put a potty pad in there for him, since he was too young to hold it all day. When it started to be dry every day when I got home, I took it out for good.

He likes to chew on things that he shouldn't when he gets bored, so the crate helps to keep him safe from the electrical cords and other things.

I really felt guilty about leaving him to go to work when I first got him. But, if I do take a day off and stay home, the little guy just sleeps all day anyways, so I porbably shouldn't feel too bad about missing that.

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Ravyn, I

'm the one that said I don't like the idea of crates for extened periods of time. We are gone 12 hours and IMO it's too long. However if someone's circumstances mean that crating for that long is the only option then you do what you have to do - nothing wrong with that.

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:Dog_run:

I was beginning to think I was a bad person. Two years ago, when Scott almost let me adopt another dog, I contacted three different rescues. I was denied from all three for two reason:
1. I work outside the home for longer than four hours.
2. I didn't have a fenced yard.

Didn't matter that I already had a perfectly adjusted dog without those things, couldn't have another dog.

The work outside the home thing has always made me feel guilty, I guess I shouldn't feel guilty after all.

I used to crate Re all day(8am to about 3pm) but now he just sleeps all day. I'd like to get rid of the crate all together but he uses it at night and when we go anywhere in the car.

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have no fear K, I did let them have it. she insisted she was only talking about the dogs from "her" rescue, and that I was taking it all too personally, etc.....maybe I was. which is fine. I getvery personal about my dogs.

and AAP is right. they spend a lot of time knocking newbies, and anyone they dont agree with, over the edge. One time we got into a knock down drag out because some of them believe a dog should never be outside unless their human is in attendance. ever. not for 5 minutes....even with a fully fenced yard, because "something bad might happen"....

I threw a wrench into the party by saying "so, the dogs are inside unless you're with them. and are you willing to stay out for 2-3 hours every day with them, in your fenced yard? or do they do their biz and get shuffled right back in?"

all hell broke loose

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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[quote name='Jaci']I've encountered one rescue (the national Chi one) who was REALLY rude to me when I tried volunteering. I mean REALLY rude. First they turned me down for "not living in a stable situation" which was understandable, I worked in fast food, I was renting and living with my boyfriend. [/quote]

:o :o I don't know if I'm missing the point but I don't understand how your living circumstances as described above have absolutley anything do with you being able to volunteer with their organisation.

They sound like a bunch of total fools to me. :-?

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[quote name='K']Hey AAP you forgot one :wink:[/quote]

what? i dont have another dog!!! you crazy woman

:lol: :lol:

sorry i take it as a given that everyone knows Eli is in his kennel if I am not out there with him..guess i'm wrong that it's a given :P

but when Eli does come inside he is either in the crate or up in the room with the door shut.

he'll be living in our attached apartment this winter though 8)

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Jaci, your story just makes my b u t t want to crochet barbed wire. No, really, what gets to me is that you're trying to VOLUNTEER. Are these people so overwhelmed with resources that they can just turn up their arses for everyone to kiss? I understand them having standards, but I don't get how a VOLUNTEER group can be so... snarky toward people trying to HELP. It makes my blood boil. That's certainly not the first case I've read of a volunteer rescue group being way over the top in terms of how they treat potential volunteers.

It's only one reason why I do most rescue work and fostering independently, but I do network with some groups... not as an actual volunteer for THEM. It seems to work out better that way. Some things I can do on my own, and some things they help me with. Any dog I adopt out will have been trained to accept a crate (though not necessarily like it). I'd rather see a dog that can be crated than have dogs constantly returned to me for simple behavioral problems that could be solved by containing the dog when he's alone from people who felt that crating would be more cruel than letting a dog bond and then returning it. Of course, it should go without saying (but I'll say it, anyway) that it goes with training. It's just that you can't train a dog when you're not home, so in the meantime, another alternative may be needed. Crating fills in the "meantime."

My own dogs are home alone AND crated for probably about seven hours a day. It used to be longer, but I've started leaving for work later in the mornings, and hubby gets home earlier than me in the afternoons, so now it's six-seven hours at most. There are currently eleven dogs in my house and there's absolutely no way I'd let them all have free reign of the house with no one home. Most of them can be trusted alone in small groups, but get them all together with no supervision and all sense leaves them. Tucker Lab is left loose in the house all day, and so is PJ Poodlet (when he doesn't go with me to work). Peanut typically goes with me to work. When home, she's crated only because she runs into it before we leave. Besides, if I came home to sh*t puddles all over the house, or vomit, or any other sign of illness, I'd never be able to know who was sick if all of them had been loose. At the least, I'd be wasting precious time trying to watch for signs where, if they are mostly kenneled, I'll know immediately who's sick. That has been an issue in the past.

I certainly don't stand in the yard with my dogs every second they're outside, either, or they'd never get any outside time. I keep constant check on them and we routinely check the fence perimeter, so I feel pretty confident that they're ok. I'd never say nothing could happen because we have had one escape artist, but we secured him even further. We'd have to set up camp in the yard and live there if we stayed out with them every time one had to pee. I fully agree with the good intention that you shouldn't have dogs if you don't have the time and resources to devote to them, but I think I disagree on the definition of how much time is adequate. I just don't think my dogs need my constant presence 24/7.

Some of these breed rescues are just shooting themselves in the foot. I imagine a lot of people have been put off by some of these rescues after being told they can't adopt to people that work fulltime, and a lot of them probably just go buy from the pet stores since they feel they have no alternative after the rescues turn them down. I just don't see how that's helping the rescues or the animals any. Maybe people should just start saying, "I panhandle on Mondays and Wednesdays, and on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Fridays, I am a prostitute. Since I'm working for myself, the dog could accompany me any time and would never have to be alone..." or, "no, I don't work at all. I like being broke and would love to have one of your dogs to keep me company with all this free time I have not working." :-?

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It may be inadequate for a puppy but as for a dog, it's way better than a shelter. Besides, IMO, from what I know of you, from your posts, you are very knowledgeable and an excellent owner. Don't forget to send me the money for saying that. Just kidding lol. :lol:

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