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Canis erectus

What do you guys think?

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We've decided on our next dog. I found this Corso breeder, and they seem to look pretty ethical to me, of course I realize that what's on the web site may not reflect real life, but it all appears to look good so far. [url]http://crestwoodscorsos.com/[/url] Seems like everything is in order with these guys, and they're only a couple hours away from us, so we'll be able to pay them a visit and check them out in person.

It's still going to be awhile before we get a new dog, I want Alina to be at least three and a half or four before bringing a puppy into the house. I kinda feel like I'm jumping the gun with the news, but I was pretty stoked at finding this breeder and felt like sharing. So I'm hoping to contact these folks and pay them a visit before the winter arrives, but we have some buisiness to take care of in Maryland pretty soon and right after that we'll be (hopefully) moving into a new house, so it I may not get out there until next spring.

Anyhow, if anyone sees anything that doesn't seem quite right, let me know as this will be my first time dealing with a breeder for a dog.

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Some concerns on the health testing front... I like that they test hips and elbows, but is PRA a concern in the breed? How about heart defects?

I really don't like their health guarantee... only one year (especially with a slow maturing breed, when they won't even be structurally mature until at least 2 or 3 yrs old), and only if the defect is bad enough for the dog to be euth'ed. Crappy if your dog has "mild" HD at a year old, and by age 5, is crippled by arthiritis and DJD.

Other than that, they look to be decent breeders, I like that they are doing testing, and that they do prove their dogs' temperments and in some, working ability.

EDIT: Also don't like the clause in their contract about them being able to refuse the return of adult dogs. IMO, when a breeder brings dogs into existance, they are responsible for LIFE of the dog.

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I don't see any titles on the dogs, maybe they're just not listed. They say they do health testing, though checking the OFA database only one of their females is listed. None of the others have OFA scores on their pages either, whihc I would then assume means they arn't checked.

I don't know, send them an email and ask why they don't have titles (aside from GCG's) or OFA scores?

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[quote name='Lucky Chaos']I don't see any titles on the dogs, maybe they're just not listed. They say they do health testing, though checking the OFA database only one of their females is listed. None of the others have OFA scores on their pages either, whihc I would then assume means they arn't checked.

I don't know, send them an email and ask why they don't have titles (aside from GCG's) or OFA scores?[/quote]

Good point LC, I'll have to look further into that. Good thing I have plenty of time for research.

I'm pretty sure hips and elbows are the only common problem with this breed (also cherry eye I think). I didn't note where they only give a year on OFA's, which would be pointless. Does OFA even accept a registry on dogs less than 2? I guess the answere is yes, but that would seem foolish on their part. Mayhaps why they don't have OFA scores posted.

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[quote name='K'][b]Sorry I have to do it[/b]

[url]http://www.petfinder.org/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=4851851&adTarget=&SessionID=42f74543315d8b46-app5&display=&preview=1&row=0&tmpl=&stat=[/url]

You must at least agree to try Petfinder when the time comes![/quote]

LOL, somehow I knew you would, and wouldn't have expected any less. I have actually been keeping an eye on adoptions, but that probably won't be a viable option for me. As much as I dislike puppy care, I feel that I definately need to get a male puppy. With my girls, especially China, I don't think I'd have much luck with bringing and adult dog home of a basically dominant breed. My girls also have their own 'unenforced' heirarchy dynamic that I want the new dog to pick up if possible. And then I also want it to form the strongest bond possible with my daughter, something alot more easily accomplished with a puppy. Trust me though, if an appropriate pup shows up on an adoption list I'd be all over it.

Mei-Mei, I went with Corsos for a few reasons, one of them being the shedding factor. We had our list of possiblities down to Corsos, American Bulldogs, and Rotties. I eventually ruled out Rotts due to the commonality factor and the problems associated with a popular breed. We finally ruled out Bulldogs because (and I hate to admit this) I don't won't to deal with any of the stigmas associated with a Pitbull look-alike.

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I honestly would pass on this breeder.

The contracts are.. unsettling. Certainly not the kind of support I would want when making such a huge and important purchase! 1 year for Hip Displaysia? Wow.. that's helpful. And they'll only help by replacing your pup once you kill it. No help with surgery costs or anything- how much faith do you think they have in their breeding stock with a contract like this? Are you really looking to pay a small fortune for a dog, and in two years pay another for hip surgery and rehab?
The reccomend obedience classes. If I was placing dogs like that (let's be honest here, those dogs are large and powerful enough that if they decided to snack on you in the middle of night, you would never wake up), I would be requiring X amount of training classes with a trainer using methods I approve of before X age. I think that any good breeder of a breed like Corsos would. They care about their dogs and don't want them ending up on the front page of the newspaper under the headline 'Viscious Dog Eats Toddler' after the new owner neglects to train and supervise.
Perhaps most importantly, any good breeder (or rescue) will take back a dog at any time during the dog's life for any reason. This breeder reserves the right to refuse.. perhaps leaving you stranded if the unthinkable were to happen. (Plus, are they assuming that their pups may grow into dogs that even they can't/don't want to handle or live with?)

And just as a side note, the males aren't titled at all... (she says that one male has great confirmation and excellent temperment, I say prove it!).

I say keep looking. And do consider rescue- it is a noble thing to do, and there is nothing wrong with the dogs that end up there, they just got unlucky the first time around (and perhaps had a breeder that 'reserves the right to refuse' the return of pups..)


Here's a girl in California that sounds like she fits your needs.. if you are looking to take a road trip. [url]http://www.operationk9rescue.com/av-detail.asp?DID=276&p=10[/url] (California would be a nice change from Michigan for a little while, consider it!)

A dreamy black brindle male with a rescue in Texas who knows what they're doing. They are willing to assist with transport. [url]http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=4837758&adTarget=&SessionID=42f76c061b2a29e9-app2&display=&preview=1&row=0&tmpl=&stat=[/url]

A litter of Corso pups in PA! Males, Females and mom! [url]http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=4889185&adTarget=&SessionID=42f76c061b2a29e9-app2&display=&preview=1&row=0&tmpl=&stat=[/url]

There are several others in rescue as well. Do consider it- uncommon breeds don't end up in shelters everyday, but homes suitable for these uncommon breeds don't come along very often either.

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[quote name='Canis erectus']
Mei-Mei, I went with Corsos for a few reasons, one of them being the shedding factor. We had our list of possiblities down to Corsos, American Bulldogs, and Rotties. I eventually ruled out Rotts due to the commonality factor and the problems associated with a popular breed. We finally ruled out Bulldogs because (and I hate to admit this) I don't won't to deal with any of the stigmas associated with a Pitbull look-alike.[/quote]

a cane corso looks much more like a pit bull than a bulldog does.

either way you're going to have people calling your dog a pit bull because the JQ public is a bunch of morons :D

and OMG look at this cutie..a bit far from you :lol: but he's gorgeous!
[url]http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=3779014&adTarget=&SessionID=42f7757f05126bca-app1&display=&preview=1&row=0&tmpl=&stat=[/url]

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[quote name='AllAmericanPUP']
a cane corso looks much more like a pit bull than a bulldog does.

either way you're going to have people calling your dog a pit bull because the JQ public is a bunch of morons :D

and OMG look at this cutie..a bit far from you :lol: but he's gorgeous!
[url]http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=3779014&adTarget=&SessionID=42f7757f05126bca-app1&display=&preview=1&row=0&tmpl=&stat=[/url][/quote]

You think so? I guess that just shows how opinions differ. i think they look basically mastiff-ish, especially with uncropped ears. You're right though, that most uneducated people wouldn't be able able to tell the difference with either breed, I figured that someone who is a little less undeucated would be able to differentiate Corso from Pits.

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[quote name='Canis erectus'][quote name='AllAmericanPUP']
a cane corso looks much more like a pit bull than a bulldog does.

either way you're going to have people calling your dog a pit bull because the JQ public is a bunch of morons :D

and OMG look at this cutie..a bit far from you :lol: but he's gorgeous!
[url]http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=3779014&adTarget=&SessionID=42f7757f05126bca-app1&display=&preview=1&row=0&tmpl=&stat=[/url][/quote]

You think so? I guess that just shows how opinions differ. i think they look basically mastiff-ish, especially with uncropped ears. You're right though, that most uneducated people wouldn't be able able to tell the difference with either breed, I figured that someone who is a little less undeucated would be able to differentiate Corso from Pits.[/quote]

yes with uncropped ears they do look more mastiff-ish but lets not forget that any dog of medium-large size with a short coat and big head is a pit bull :lol: like the 2 bullmastiffs who attacked a kid..they were pit bulls when the story was published :roll:

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[quote name='FearedDogFan']That Pit Bull and that cropped Cane Corso look so similiar, it's totally amazing. :o I didn't realize they had that much in common. I like AmBulls. And Bull Boxers. Do Bull Boxers have much in common with these other breeds? Love the pics so much! Thanks for sharing. :wink:[/quote]

Actually they don't have all that much in common except for some distant shared mastiff ancestor. Corso are of a definate mastiff conformation, if you look at Mei-Mei's pic and compare it to a Neopolitain or English Mastiff you'll see alot of similarities. Except for the ears, which on the cropped Corso are really the only similarity to the Pitbull pic, of course that's just my opinion and I have a trained eye for distinguishing animal morphology.

Some Am. Bulldogs look obviously different from Pits, but those big mastiffy looking dogs are of the Johnson type. There's alot of variance in AB conformation mostly because there is no standard for conformation and there are severeal different breeding lines all with a different goal as to what the ideal Bulldog is, but even whithin the 'types' there's a good deal of conformation variance. Here's some more Bulldogs that kind of show the spectrum, the middle two pics are definately Johnson dogs, and probably the top one too though it's hard to tell. The bottom dog is definately a Scott's or some other type:

[img]http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:YZiypxakQgIJ:americanbulldogsmn.tripod.com/sugar2001.jpg[/img]

[img]http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:XbRyEQpVcuIJ:www.american-bulldog.ee/dutch4.jpg[/img]

[img]http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:UbVw1xvhhi4J:www.americanbulldogkennels.com/images/Angus-at-10-months-pic-1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:EwepwHfA670J:www.newunderwood.k12.sd.us/images/american_bulldog.jpg[/img]

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[quote name='FearedDogFan']And Bull Boxers. Do Bull Boxers have much in common with these other breeds?[/quote]

Bullboxers are MUTTS, therefore you can't say what they have in common with purebreds considering they have no standard. They're simply a cross between either an APBT and a boxer or an american bulldog and a boxer.

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i can belive :o how i didnt answer to this question, sombody talked here about cane corso and i wasn't there to answer outraged !!!
i studied this breed for the last two years. everything from any angle, the breed, breeders and the chempions them self

ok so about this breeder, i saw his site before. i myself cant ever bay from them because they are AKC dogs and i'm FCI. i saw ther female pyton on many pedegrees, some of her offsfering are good and some arent, i think shes ok. there males are'nt so good, there are not familiar in the national show rigs so i cant tale you who and what they are.
note yourself that in USA they breed nice bodys but low hips and heads and more to that they are far away from the reall breed standart with there havey dogs and strange colors and because of that i and other breeders cant use there dogs. i meat i good breeder with actualy working dogs with titles, they american but breed in the Italian way [url]http://www.topsitelists.com/bestsites/edvries/topsites.html[/url] this is a web ring of all known cane corso breeders, look on it its intersting :D
dont forget to talk alot and really nag to the breeders, use there e-malis and by that also there messengers

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Actually that wasn't the best photo I could have posted because they do look remarkably similar in that pic. Here's a much better one of a Cane Corso.


[img]http://www.europuppy.com/images/cane_corso/cane_corso.jpg[/img][/quote]

if i remember corectly the name ( and i have a serius problem to remmember names LOL ) this is Anita in the pic, she is a wonderfull dam and she is in one of my breeding lines, she come from elmi kennels

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[quote name='K']Oh lordy...not this again too...whats happening?

If anyone wants to see the original Bullenbeiser( Banter Bulldogge or BullBoxer whatever you wish) being re created..

[url]http://www.pulldoggies.com/welcome_to_pulldoggies_kennels.htm[/url]

Todd is a really nice man and has helped me with several placements of these...'types' of dogs in the past...[/quote]

I don't see how you could support breeding crossbreeds, especially now. I'm glad they work their dogs, all the more power to them but I won't ever support crossbreeding when there's absolutely no need for it. Whatever, just my opinion. If you call bull boxers a breed, whats to stop the goldendoodle people from calling theirs a breed too?

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[quote name='Mei-Mei']I have no doubt that if we get a Cane Corso there will be constant 'look at that mean pitbull' comments, which is one of the reasons I want a GSD (or a Neo Mastiff--I [i][b]love[/b][/i] those dogs). But the Boy is stuck on a Cane Corso. I guess it won't make a difference because people are going to make stupid comments no matter what. Canis, I assume when you get a puppy you're going to leave it uncropped? Cause that is definitely what I'm doing. :) [/quote]

Hey Mei, why don't you split the difference and get a Tibetan Mastiff? Great temperaments, the coat of a longhaired GSD but the size and shape of a mastiff :) .

And Canis, whatever you decide, temperament should be on the very top of the list with this breed. I'm working with one now who's already bitten someone, and is one tweaked out dog. The owner thought he knew what he was getting into, did all the research, got her from a breeder, didn't stay on top with the training and asserting his dominance from the start, and now he may lose his dog over it.

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[quote name='K']But hes not crossbreeding with no reason or simply money in mind as the maltypoo and goldendoodle people do...hes attempting to re-create an extinct breed....but I agree you are entitled to your opinion and its a valid point...[/quote]

I don't see any health testing. Again maybe its not listed, but that should be a HUGE priority with the breeds he's crossing, since all have a high instance of HD.

I will admit though I'm quite taken to Hannah, she's pretty. :oops:

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[quote name='K']But hes not crossbreeding with no reason or simply money in mind as the maltypoo and goldendoodle people do...hes attempting to re-create an extinct breed....but I agree you are entitled to your opinion and its a valid point...[/quote]

Surely the breed would be extinct for a reason? How much do you want to tamper with evolution any more than we already have? Are there not enough breeds in existence at the present time? Shall we recreate other dead and buried dog breeds just because we can and not because they serve any useful purpose? What are your thoughts on the Labradoodle, a dog apparently bred for the blind who were also allergic to dog hair? Shall we bring up how many homeless dogs are on Petfinder alone?

I don't know. Sorry to hijack your thread CE, but crossbreeding just for history's sake is just as stupid a reason as doing it for money. K, I really can't see how you can be so against breeding crossbred dogs and support this. Didn't you want a two-year moratorium on all breeding??

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Thanks for the info Irena. I too am not so terribely impressed with the males, I think when the time comes my descision will be based on what dogs are will be used to produce the litter.

As far as breed recreations go, I have to keep in mind that some of our established breeds today are recreations. The two that come to mind right away are the irish Wolfhound and the Field Spaniel. It seems like the trend for many breeders today is to recreate the origional English Bulldog. Some of these dogs I've seen pictures of are nice looking (some are just damn ugly) but how can one expect to recreate a breed that wouldn't have had any sort of standard to begin with? I guess I should read more in depth on the Banter website but my guess would be that Banters didn't have a set breed standard either. Maybe I just don't care for these guys because it seems like everyone seems to be out to recreate one version of the Bulldog or another.

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[quote]It seems like the trend for many breeders today is to recreate the origional English Bulldog. [/quote]

There's already recreated bulldog breeds, the ancestors of the pit bull WERE the dogs that brought down bulls. Afterwards they were crossed with terriers and made smaller for the pit. The American Bulldog was created by people who crossed the English Bulldog with the APBT, and probably Boxers too to get the original bulldog look except larger and heavier (usually) than the APBT.

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[quote name='"Lokipups"']
Hey Mei, why don't you split the difference and get a Tibetan Mastiff? Great temperaments, the coat of a longhaired GSD but the size and shape of a mastiff :) .
/quote]

I love Tibetan Mastiffs! If I was going to get a mastiff breed, that's what I would get.

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about the bullboxer thing, i dont think what most people are ticked off about are the people trying to recreate something, i think it's more the people who breed a pit bull and a boxer together, call it a bullboxer and sell it for money.

i personally dont think that guy is going to be able to recreate a breed like that from the 1700's by cross breeding a few of today's breeds... :-?

i cant say i'm against breed re-creating though if it serves a purpose...

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[quote name='K']I just happen to think hes an ok guy...if there were a ban on breeding he would not be one of the ones going against it...[/quote]

Someone being an "ok guy" doesn't make his actions right. If I wanted to recreate a breed that had been out of action for 300 years what would you all think?


[quote]I dont think crossbreeding in this case for historical reasons is as stupid as breeding 17 litters of Malty Oodle Shi Doos a year for profit is no...and frankly thats a unreasonable comparison...[/quote]

But why do we need a breed that is dead and buried? As I said, it's gone for a reason. How many dog breeds do we have already that can do the stuff this "historical" breed can do?

I don't think it's unreasonable to compare breeding poo mixes and breeding dead dog breeds- both of them are completely and utterly unnecessary and not done with anything but the selfishness of the owner as paramount. Whether that selfishness is fiscal or for another reason there's nothing that's really altruistic about breeding crossbred dogs, historical or not.

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